Grapple Survey.

Zzang · May 20, 2004

Lot's of thoughts (whine) about grapple has been on the forums lately.
Mostly it is albs/mids saying: Grapple is shit and overpowered.
And hibs saying: Grapple isnt good, all realms have grapple, why dont u grapple us instead.

Now, i rly think mythic made a vital mistake when introdicing grapple into the game. (yes i do know savages are overpowered but better nerf then then to toss another bs thing into game)

I have some ideas how you can change grapple, to make it less irritating, but almost as useful. Or in some ideas, not nearly as usable, but still a good thing in some situations.

1: Make grapple "self-stun" unaffected by Det, and no immunity works. This wpuld make a hero think twice before he runs forward and gapple some1

2: Make the grappled target be able to fight in melee. Keep the reset as it is.
This would make the person grappled less irritated and as he still canot hit the bodyguarded casters and standing in range of pb its still a viable skill.

3: Make effect purgeable and 1minut timer. This would prevent "grapplecamping" and ultimately boring fights.

4: Keep it as it is?

5: Remove the whole skill.

6: Other solution.

Now, plz post which of the ideas (or combination of ideas) and/or any other thoughts u want.

Savages ARE overpowered. we dont need to hear it any more kthx.
And Berserker WERE overpowered, we dont need to hear that either.

Edit: My spelling IS bad, we dont need to hear about that.

Clipse · May 20, 2004

No3. and 30 seconds, not 1 minute !!!!

Lol at 2.

Dinfar · May 20, 2004

4.

Clipse · May 20, 2004

and get rid of Shade mode.

Asty · May 20, 2004

1 and 2 together imo, or just get rid of the whole ability.

Bracken · May 20, 2004

3. but 30 second timer would be fair with the NF purge.

katt! · May 20, 2004

Zzang said:
Lot's of thoughts (whine) about grapple has been on the forums lately.
Mostly it is albs/mids saying: Grapple is shit and overpowered.
And hibs saying: Grapple isnt good, all realms have grapple, why dont u grapple us instead.

Now, i rly think mythic made a vital mistake when introdicing grapple into the game. (yes i do know savages are overpowered but better nerf then then to toss another bs thing into game)

I have some ideas how you can change grapple, to make it less irritating, but almost as useful. Or in some ideas, not nearly as usable, but still a good thing in some situations.

1: Make grapple "self-stun" unaffected by Det, and no immunity works. This wpuld make a hero think twice before he runs forward and gapple some1

2: Make the grappled target be able to fight in melee. Keep the reset as it is.
This would make the person grappled less irritated and as he still canot hit the bodyguarded casters and standing in range of pb its still a viable skill.

3: Make effect purgeable and 1minut timer. This would prevent "grapplecamping" and ultimately boring fights.

4: Keep it as it is?

5: Remove the whole skill.

6: Other solution.

Now, plz post which of the ideas (or combination of ideas) and/or any other thoughts u want.

Savages ARE overpowered. we dont need to hear it any more kthx.
And Berserker WERE overpowered, we dont need to hear that either.

Edit: My spelling IS bad, we dont need to hear about that.

7: make the effect break on damage so it can't be used to hold ppl in pb etc.

Kagato · May 20, 2004

1,

3 sounds ok in terms of game mechanics, however its not exactly realistic, how do you 'purge' someone who is meant to be grappling you physically, it would make more sense to allow you to attack the person grappling you instead.

personally I think bodyguard is more over powered though and in need of change.

Squalion · May 20, 2004

how about we leave it as it is?

fucking whiners

Fluid · May 20, 2004

2, smth needs chaging, exc rvr is so fucking boring atm its not funny, its like.... hi savage, bye savage

Fana · May 20, 2004

katt has the best solution in my oppinion. Any dmg should instantly break grapple - either that or make anyone beeing grappled immune to dmg.

Puppet · May 20, 2004

Needs a change; but change Forceful Zypher too while you're at it.

Can moan about grapple as Mid; can moan about FZ as Hib. Mids can get it on like 4 classes in a FOTM-setup; Hibs in ... 1

Grapple is crap; but atleast you're immune for melee. FZ has no penalty to the user (he aint stunned) and the one getting zyphered isnt immune to anything.

FZ is just as overpowered if not more. Surely it has a large re-use timer but fights normally dont take that long 4x FZ isnt enough.

Thats my 2 cent

Sycho · May 20, 2004

Was chain grappled just now on pryd...i mean non stop nearly whole fight vs hib caster group, it really needs looking at, i mean being completely useless during a whole fight is silly.It should have a timer on the target you cast it on, i.e if you cast grapple on a tank, that tank should have 10s timer or so before you can cast again on him/her.

Asty · May 20, 2004

Squalion said:
how about we leave it as it is?

fucking whiners

how about not? its really retarded and overpowered ability.

katt! · May 20, 2004

It's not only that it's overpowered, it completely removes tanks from an offensive role.

Fluid · May 20, 2004

Asty said:
how about not? its really retarded and overpowered ability.

u need to see that its not jsut hibs that get overpowered by it, its mids too, albs get a kick in the teeth.

Asty · May 20, 2004

Fluid said:
u need to see that its not jsut hibs that get overpowered by it, its mids too, albs get a kick in the teeth.

I know that mids can get as much use of it as hibs with some setups but as you said, its worse for albs. Thats why it should be if not removed then atleast nerfed to make rvr more balanced.

swords · May 20, 2004

^^ dont forget the punch in the Nads (Mids Zephyr capacity)

Garbannoch · May 20, 2004

and ofc we completely ignore FZ which is as we all know completely useless in RvR (or maybe it is ok because it benefits mids?)

I can understand albs cause they really are fucked a bit atm but mids have NO right at all to moan about the current state of the game and even less in 1.69. It is not hibs/albs fault if mids are too stupid to use FZ and use both insta aoe stun and insta aoe mez in the first two seconds of the fight and then complain that they lose and it's only because of grapple...

gia · May 20, 2004

Afaik #1 is a bug and is fixed in 1.69, I agree that grapple is a badly designed skill and should'nt even be in game (So is FZ btw). Battlemasters would need something back though if it gets nerfed more or the whole line will be turned into a 1 trick pony (bodyguard).

Dreami · May 20, 2004

katt! said:
7: make the effect break on damage so it can't be used to hold ppl in pb etc.

That and make it purgeable. :m00:

katt! · May 20, 2004

All realms got FZ, you can use it too.

Asty · May 20, 2004

And yeah forgot to add that FZ also needs a serious nerf.

bult · May 20, 2004

Puppet said:
Needs a change; but change Forceful Zypher too while you're at it.

Can moan about grapple as Mid; can moan about FZ as Hib. Mids can get it on like 4 classes in a FOTM-setup; Hibs in ... 1

Grapple is crap; but atleast you're immune for melee. FZ has no penalty to the user (he aint stunned) and the one getting zyphered isnt immune to anything.

FZ is just as overpowered if not more. Surely it has a large re-use timer but fights normally dont take that long 4x FZ isnt enough.

Thats my 2 cent

well a couple of things are different with FZ even tho i agree that is one very powerful ability ;>

FZ got a 2? min timer and grapple got 10sec ;x

the immunity thing actually just makes it worse, means grapple is pretty much useless for melee groups and still VERY overpowered for castergroups.

Garbannoch · May 20, 2004

katt! said:
All realms got FZ, you can use it too.

just found it quite funny that people (ie mids) bitch about grapple but not FZ. Personally I don't give jack shit - I am happy with what we have. But if you nerf one also nerf the other.

Jika · May 20, 2004

Zzang said:
1: Make grapple "self-stun" unaffected by Det, and no immunity works. This wpuld make a hero think twice before he runs forward and gapple some1

Thats why I dont use grapple

Farek · May 20, 2004

FZ - 2 min timer
grapple - 10 sec

katt! · May 20, 2004

Garbannoch said:
just found it quite funny that people (ie mids) bitch about grapple but not FZ. Personally I don't give jack shit - I am happy with what we have. But if you nerf one also nerf the other.

In case you missed the strong sarcasm there, I'll spell it out for you:

You QQ about FZ, but grapple is ok because it fits your setup.

Fluid · May 20, 2004

Jika said:
Thats why I dont use grapple

i do ><

raid · May 20, 2004

Puppet said:
Needs a change; but change Forceful Zypher too while you're at it.

Can moan about grapple as Mid; can moan about FZ as Hib. Mids can get it on like 4 classes in a FOTM-setup; Hibs in ... 1

Grapple is crap; but atleast you're immune for melee. FZ has no penalty to the user (he aint stunned) and the one getting zyphered isnt immune to anything.

FZ is just as overpowered if not more. Surely it has a large re-use timer but fights normally dont take that long 4x FZ isnt enough.

Thats my 2 cent

Wouldnt mind at all if both FZ and grapple were removed

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