[SUGGESTION] Zone locking: downgrade PQ importance, upgrade participation importance

Discussion in 'Warhammer' started by Roo Stercogburn, Dec 1, 2008.

  1. Roo Stercogburn

    Roo Stercogburn Resident Freddy

    PQ grinding for zone locking is dull. Not just a bit tedious. Its up there with wood warping, paint peeling and Radio 5.

    I'd like to see the zone mechanics tweaked so these things can help if people really want to do them, but I'd prefer it was based on whether each side bothers to put some effort into defending/attacking.

    End game is RvR. Not PQs. Include them on a "To do" list if you (Mythic) must, but don't make them an endless source of incoming victory points when you've done everything else in a zone. If nobody is defending a zone prime time they SHOULD lose the zone.

    PQs are nice, but they're not THAT great. I don't want to be grinding them when I want to be crushing the bones of enemies underfoot. Er, disc.

    And oddly enough, I think neither does anyone else much. If people want to PvE to victory they play WoW. If people want to kill, crush and destroy enemies as their endgame they'll play Warhammer.

    This is Warhammer. I signed on to kill or be killed by enemy players. Ok mostly in my case thats be killed. I'm working on that. Hopefully so are Mythic. Thats not important right now.

    I'd rather see the zonelocks based on a mechanic where the number of active players in a zone attacking/defending contributed more and the success of holding those objectives counted for more over time, rather than being (as I believe it is) a set amount of static points. Even if its a slow build at least let us win or lose RvR zones based on controlling RvR objectives. These static points augmented by scenarios, PQs and quests might be fine in theory but I'm watching the comings and goings on our server and really its making the whole game a bit too static.

    Regarding scenario effect on zonelocking..I'm not sure. Scenarios for a given zone don't seem to pop up very often on our server so its difficult to say if these are a worthwhile or not so worthwhile contributing factor.

    Perhaps of course I'm missing something. T4 endgame RvR is only really starting to kick into gear now, this is very much early days and often on voice comms we're discussing the mechanics of how things work rather than just assigning battle orders.

    I think the way it is just now, we'll soon see the zones changing hands during the night when most people are in bed since a couple of groups can get the objectives then grind PQs while at primetime it doesn't take too much to undermine a zone lock effort - the requirement to defend being much less and easier than the requirement to take. I don't mind that its easier to prevent a zone lock, but I think its a little *too* easy to prevent zone captures just now.

    So to summarise: downgrade the importance of PQs (and maybe scenarios) and upgrade the importance of holding battlefield objectives and reward defences and assaults with victory points over time, not just a static amount.
     
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  2. Zede

    Zede Part of the furniture

    agree.

    Ive just levelled from 32-38, across all zones. I didnt see >anyone<>anywhere< doing PQs. Scenarios well, we know the general consensus on them.
     
  3. Gahn

    Gahn Resident Freddy

    I concur PQs grinding for locking an RvR zone is just , well, stupid.
     
  4. dee777

    dee777 Loyal Freddie

    I think it is nice, that people that dont like to PvP (lets just assume there are some that still play WAR) can contribute to the success of a realm. However I agree that to lock a zone, you should not _HAVE TO_ grind PQs. Make it optional and balance it against oRvR contribution. If people are grinding PQs to defend the zone, thats fine and should have some kind of influence. It should just have lower influence than oRvR participation.

    Oversimplification: If 40 people roam in the oRvR zones with all objectives and keeps tagged, 40 other people constantly grinding PQs should not be able to prevent the zone from getting conquered. Assuming noone or everyone of the 80 people is queued for that pairings scenarios only.
     
  5. NicGOA

    NicGOA English WAR Community Manager

    Thanks for the feedback, I'll pass it on.
     
  6. Turamber

    Turamber FH is my second home

    It does seem a little strange that a lower level player can participate in RvR and have his levels buffed ... yet receives no level buffing if he wishes to aid in swinging a zone by running in a PQ in that zone.

    Some attention is definitely needed to the mechanic of winning or losing a zone. At the moment the best defence against losing a zone is not bothering to defend, just go and do something else. By that logic one doesn't even need to log into the game and is still contributing to defending one's realm.
     
  7. TheBinarySurfer

    TheBinarySurfer Can't get enough of FH

    Agreed! (Radio 5 is more interesting - at least it's different once in a while whereas PQ's never change).
     
  8. Flimgoblin

    Flimgoblin It's my birthday today!

    make it so that taking all the objectives in a zone starts a timer, or starts ticking up VPs.

    If defenders arrive and kill invaders they push the VP meter back down, if they retake BOs they stop the capture.

    Taking all the objectives + defending them against live enemies trying to retake should win you the zone.

    Taking all the objectives and the defenders not showing should win you the zone (just not for a while to give a chance to defend).
     
  9. Ayam Ganbatte

    Ayam Ganbatte Fledgling Freddie

    Your priorities are astounding. Moon first.
     
  10. Mishy

    Mishy One of Freddy's beloved

    They should seriously reduce the amount of VP scenarios contribute as well, or just remove their contribution entirely. As we are finding on Karak-Azgal, the best defence is to not queue for scenarios (which both sides appear guilty of) resulting in endless tedious stalemates.

    If Mythic wants to encourage RvR then encourage it! - don't make us do scenarios/pq's etc just so we can see a city siege.

    Also i agree, that a side shouldn't be denied locking the zone just because the other side can't be bothered to turn up - though i understand the problem of population imbalance, maybe mythic can set a dynamic amount of VPs needed to lock, depending on the population of each side, i.e. the more populous side would need a larger amount of VPs to lock the zone, then they less popular side.
     
  11. dee777

    dee777 Loyal Freddie

    Would also devalue alarmclocking to a degree.
     
  12. NicGOA

    NicGOA English WAR Community Manager

    Please note that we're aware that this is not yet in our version of the patchnotes as we want to make sure it is part of the patch we are applying right now. If it isn't it will obviously be up on our servers asap.

    Keep that feedback coming guys!
     
  13. dee777

    dee777 Loyal Freddie

    I was slightly worried about that. Thanks for clearing that up!
     
  14. Grotnob

    Grotnob Fledgling Freddie

    As would making BO's and keeps un-takeable between 1am and 8am CET. This is a slightly more controversial suggestion though.

    Off the back of the OP's suggestions, I'd like to add the rewards for defending a zone, and keeps in particular, needs to be addressed.

    Currently the situation is such that it's more worthwhile in terms of xp/rp/loot to leave a keep or BO to fall to the other realm, then go retake it. 100 RP/XP every so often (fifteen minutes? Not actually timed it) plus kills is no real incentive to defend your keep when allowing it to fall and then recapturing it gets you more RP, more XP, and the possibility of set items in addition to any kill RP/XP you might get.

    This could be addressed by changing the loot tables so defending players have a chance to loot the same set items from fallen attackers (within the area of the keep) as they might get if they were to take the keep. Increasing the RP/XP tick, and/or increasing the amount of xp/rp you get for kills while defending would also provide far more incentive to defend.

    The way things are at the moment, it wouldn't be too far out of the realms of possibility to one day see a warband of Order patiently waiting outside their keep while Destruction take it, and then for the Destrution warband to go wait outside while Order take it back. Reductio ad absurdum, but in terms of pure game mechanics, there's really not much incentive not to do this.

    One day, pretty much everyone will be high RR, and will have all the set items they need, so defending and attacking will be just something you do for shit and giggles, however, we're not at that stage yet, and we don't currently have the "realm mentality". There's currently an awful lot of players who are only looking to do things that banefit themselves - more RP, more xp, more phat lewtz for me.

    If you want to encourage ORvR, you're going to need better bait to lure people out of the scenarios.
     

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