Zerg warfare and tactics?

[Arumos]

Maybe I'm wrong but didn't fg vs. fg combat get born out of the fact people got sick of "zerg warfare"?

I for one hate fighting in zergs for the reasons Belomar outlines, fg vs. fg, in my opinion atleast, is the better out the two and I would argue even the biggest of "zerglings" would prefer fg vs. fg if they tried it with a "decent group." The only reason to zerg is if you either cant get a good group together, or you cannot win.

P.S - I'm sure some people will dispute what I say but I believe it's true for the majority of players.

completly disagree, for me atleast I am a sucker for large scale keep battles and fights. I'm also a roleplayer at heart I guess and really get stuck into the big war sequences we sometimes get between oposing realms (zerging).

some people enjoy 8v8, some enjoy 1v1, some enjoy larger fights. respect that

If i organise a keepraid I will try and get everyone grouped together. solo people in zerges just won't win as obviosuly they have a lower chance of survival than those in groups. It can be very fun to tactically move your zerg and splitting it around the warmap taking towers and meeting together at rally points to storm a keep etc.

biggest of the zerglings would enjoy 8v8 you say?. I would say i have played in several decent groups whilst playing daoc and can't support that statement i am afraid. 8v8 can be fun but most of the time we are roaming for 1 hour looking for a certain group we want to fight or no don't add here they will whine, o look another fight don't add people!. INC! o wait they are fighting DONT ADD!..... boring? I thought so

One last point, people seem to forget sometimes that there is a small majority of players that have never heard of freddyhouse, adding, leeching, zerging and they come to the keepraids as their first char lvl 49 thane in epic armour dyed in bright red and blue. They come for the fun of working as a team to achieve something, if we are successful they get a feel for rvr and of course if you like, enjoy it more and add to the rps available for the roaming groups...

People who take the time to come on the larger zerg raids make the game a lot more fun for others. Many people like you said will never get proper groups because they have rubbish equipment low RR and an unknown guild. When a Bg opens for a keeptake all these people suddenly jump out of pve and come help as they know the chances of joining a rvr group are higher.

Lots will disagree with my point of view as they see me as a zerging/adding twat, but we can't please everyone can we

PS: I guess I'm referring to the organised zerg rather than the mindless one Belomar mentioned.

 

[Baron]

Was trying to compose something then the phone rang - nerf working
But it looks like you summed it up beautifully Arumos
It's a shame that some of the fg community feel the need to look down on the zergers which is a tad bizarre as this is an RPG afterall

Btw thanks for the /hug - share the love imo

 

[Gear]

- To lead a large force one must have an objective (RR is the best example)

- Divide you forces to organised groups and zerg force.

- Figure out short term objectives that if achieved will lead to successfull conclusion of your long term aim.

- The leader must have knowledge of the terrain, the enemy, and his own capabilities.

- The leader should be the moral booster as well as the co-ordinator of all actions.

- The leader must know what to hit when, as well as to know when to change objectives in order to divide and confuse the enemy force.

Those are the things that come in mind, most of them come from basic managment anyway, not difficult to implement in a game that has to do with people.

 

[Nul]

The "almighty alb zerg outnumbering everyone" is a myth - we have the biggest potential army I don't disagree there but it's rarely the case that there are more albs in RvR than anyone else.

Just a myth? I cant agree on that. But I think the expression comes from US servers. EU servers are more equal balanced in numbers.

 

[Flimgoblin]

yet these "tactics" never seem to materialise in relic takes, so excuse me if i remain skeptical.
But there was no postpone/holding back of opponents in any of the bg's i joined on my cleric whatsoever, there was no organisation there was simply there is the keep. of you go and "fling yourselves at it".
With the usual run into the lord room die and be heretic rezed to take the keep.
Thats not largescale tactics in any stretch of the imagination tbh

that's because the public BG's are crap we tend to form a private bg with people we know will listen/people we're grouped with if we're trying to do something decent. Partly to avoid the whole backseat-zergleader syndrome of ten different people yelling what they think we should all do (doesn't matter which is right - the fact there's 10 of them makes it impossible to do anything decent), partly due to the amount of amazingly timed attacks on the zerg/huge forces guarding the target keep/tower before you arrive etc.

Occasionally you get people leading public BG raids and actually doing something tactical/strategic but it's rare.

 

[Flimgoblin]

P.S - I'm sure some people will dispute what I say but I believe it's true for the majority of players.

fg vs fg isn't the majority of players.

majority of lwrp probably but not the majority of players.

but anyway lets leave this for the other 20 threads on the subject heh sorry.

 

[Flimgoblin]

such a postfarmer - 3 in a row - anyway...

more thoughts on Army strategies (rather than zerg - call a mindless zerg a zerg - one with no aim no purpose and no cohesion, army for one with a leader. Though the zerg tended to all be very focused - driven by an overmind ).

Things like "hitting another tower to draw forces away", staying inside a defensive position till your enemy gets bored/tired. Repeatedly sieging till the enemy gives up (attrition kill your enemies morale), sending a force to light up a keep only to run away as a diversion.

Tactics (as opposed to strategies) tend to be more limited: there's not a lot you can do with that many people other than "charge" and "hold back"... though if you're organised you can outflank people, have some part of the army hit them from behind. Positioning of your troops has more of a play than actual spells cast or individual healing prowess, though having people able to target and interrupt that aoe mezzing healer, or aoeing bainshee obviously has a big effect.

 

[Javai]

Some random thoughts:

For around 2-3 months in the summer (pre-cluster) I ran an open siege orientated BG every single day. I no longer do this largely because of the amount of abuse I was subjected to both from the 'fg'ers' who didn't like my play style and from within the BGs when things didn't always work out according to plan.

I don't think there are tactics in the mechanics of zerg meets zerg on an open battlefield, too many random effects come into play - however, if you want to organise zergs to achieve something then alot of strategy comes into play. I guess you could use the analogy that playing in fg vs fg might be something akin to a fps where as zerg vs zerg is more akin to rts.

During that time I would say we have employed alot of strategy - where to attack when to send a splinter force to block a port and so on. One of my personal favourites was when 2 stealthers managed to hide inside a tower, when the Albs got within range we told the stealthers to knock out the lord and watched as the Mids outside all spammed enter and couldn't get in

I've also coordinated a number of relic defenses where both realms are attacking Albion at once again strategy is what is involved there rather than battle tactics per se. The biggest challenge as a 'zerg leader' is to get people to listen to accept you have a thought out strategy and to be patient.

Leading a zerg requires people to listen but it also requires the leader to be able to 'read' battles to try and second guess what the other realms might be doing, I think it also requires a level of social skills that sadly too many either lack or leave at the gates of Forest Sauvage. If a leader has to spam their instructions 3 times in caps they are probably not doing it right There is also a fine balance between making people trust your plan by saying what it is and spamming the BG with useless detail.

As a player in a zerg rather than a leader things are rather different - but for many the enjoyment derives from feeling part of an epic battle rather than knowing your personal mezz turned the tide.

Personally, I would love to see those large siege BGs running again - they offer the chance to get involved in rvr without being rr5+ ML10 ToA templated, voice commed etc they are in my opinion an extremely inclusive form of rvr. Unfortunately, there are too many people too quick to shout abuse and I can't subject myself that anymore, so I tend to run private alliance BGs which are necessarily smaller and less likely to achieve keep takes/relic takes etc.