Your views on Quake3

[SAS]

I never expected this mush feedback on this thread

I've read all your views, so what do I think of quake3? (In case you don't know who I am I'm the mad q3 nut who writes a BW Q3 column)

I'll tell you what I think. The truth and nothing but it.

My system is a AMD 300, 64 RAM, voodoo 2 8Mb, Diamond SupreExpress v.90 modem. You could say it's crap, but it has served me well over the years

.

Connetion wise I ping around 150-300. It depends on the number of players on the server, but I have not tweaked my connection speed or anything that might lower my ping yet. No I am not mad

, the reason I have not done this yet is I want to feel what a newbie would feel with the default settings. This is all in aid of the Quake3 guide I am creating

.

Now I've played all the major online games. Quake2,UnrealT,Halflife, and Tribes. Now comparing the quake3 network code with these games I will have to say Quake3 wins. The arguement that UT's network code is better does not wash with me. I've never had major lock ups in any games, like I have faced in UT. I tried playing about with the UT network options, yet still I see the red icon flashing at me. Most players have had problems with UT and it comes down to this. Quake3's network code is better. After all id have a lot more experience than the Epic team

Weapons
I'm surprised some people are saying Q3's weapons suck? I admit they are not perfect, but they do the job, and they each have there uses depending on the situation. The balancing of the weapons is about right (The test versions helped with this). Now as for the grapple I feel it is right to leave it out. I would rather fight the opposition on the ground, instead of trying to pick a grapple monkey from the air. LPB's with the grapple can dominate whole games. You'll see this in action when a MOD is released with the grapple

Bots
I had a talk with someone who was claiming the bots sucked and I later found out he was playing on the middle (hurt me plenty) skill level! The bots are crap unless you play on hardcore. They do have their lapses, but believe me these are some of the best bots I have seen, and comparing them to players online there are damn close to the intelligence levels of human oppoents.

Maps
yep must of them suck, but there also a handful of classics. I have to admit I live Q3DM1

. Put 15+ players on this map and watch the gibs fly. It's cramped and with only 3 weapons to pick up and you'll see players rush for them as they respwan. Totally nuts

Of course there are maps being designed as you read this and I can bet you the quake3 community will dish out some solid enjoyable maps, to keep you fragging on for years to come

Right I'm off to finish off the turkey and maybe have a few more drinks

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Posted by S.A.S
www.barrysworld.com/guides

 

[old.zach]

Q3’s netcode is the best ive played, I play with isdn and after setting the rate to 6000 it feels like im playing on a lan. When ive played UT its always been laggy. Both games are very fast so I feel sorry for modemers who don’t really have much of a chance.

I prefers Q3’s DM, UT has the better team games but its along way behind Tribes.

- Zach

 

[old.[Wc?]Kessler]

Seems that Q3A is biased towards users with ISDN. These players do get excellent pings <70 most of the time and as a result are almost impossible to beat. Sadly, I only own a V90 modem and like most modem users in Q3A my ping is much worse the ping I am used to in Q2.
Q2 around 160-180
Q3 around 280-300 (although Gamespy claims 160-180)
I haven't played round with the settings much but I don't think they will make that much difference.
Sadly I cannot afford ISDN or ADSL so I will just have to suffer.

 

[old.frankie]

exactly my point
BTW people, UT has this new mod comming out called strike force or soming, its got 20 guns, yes guns that will give you nightmares, and make you feel like neo in the matrix. They include shotguns, uzis, and 3 or more handguns, all acuratly detailed, and programmed. This TC will make you weap if you are a fan of action q2. the weapons are very good, but onto the game, it has many different modes, inc std DM and CTF, where in ctf you have to capture a brifcase with paers in it. Other modes are an assualt type game, and other operational objective type games. This seams to be a real good teamplay TC fot UT.
http://www.planetunreal.com/strikeforce/

cheack it out
nothing to do with q3 i know, but if you like action q2 or HL then youll love this

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DR_FRANKENSTIEN

 

[old.telescopi]

As far as netcode goes, Q3's is far smoother.

That isn't to say it's the better one, UT has less client side prediction I think, you can actually feel the network conditions as you play - in QW I could up the pushlatency to -999 and have a game that never lagged, but it felt like syrup, it was fake, and I didn't like it.

This for me, is the difference between the 2, and on a decent isdn, isp, and server very close (maybe even at the isp), I prefer UT - perhaps Q3 will come with options to tone down that smooth as syrup feel soon (perhaps there is even a hidden console command somewhere??)

They are both fine though, I know quite a bit about my connect, not just ping but packet loss, and they both behave as they should. For people who don't have such good connects, maybe there is more difference between the games respective network code, but modem is not something I would develop for, no matter how many ppl have them, because modem is so unreliable, slight changes in line condition, isp's firmware, even a storm outside can fuck up your game!

get ISDN, and you'll enjoy everything on the internet more, with home highway, you may even save some money

 

[old.frankie]

i dont know about you lot, but im a jobless student who can hardly afford petrol for a scooter, let alone ISDN
UT is ok on modem
q3 is just pointless
decent server, say demon, or NGI, ping in Gspy at 150, in q3 with any more than 5 players it goes upto 250 and beyond.
Q2 dont do that
UT dont do that.

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DR_FRANKENSTIEN

 

[old.zach]

Id for some reason have been stingy with the rate settings for quake. If you use a 56k modem try setting it to 4000 and 6000 if you isdn. After making the change my ping stays around 50-60. I don’t know if unreal suffers from a similar problem as I played it with isdn with the isdn setting and it lagged to death, I just assumed the net code was rubbish.

As for mods, im sure both games will have some good mods created but I think the basic game will keep me interested for a while. UT mods will have to be very good to get me to play them as I uninstalled UT after a week, what a waist of £29.

- Zach

 

[old.TUG]

frankie...skooter...LOL i still think thats funny

 

[old.Delboy]

Early Days yet. For the moment I'm happy fragging in a faster prettier environment than Q2.

Hopefully many people will help make it the game everyone wants to play.

 

[old.frankie]

i cant stand q3
basically 2 modes of play
shoot everyone, or shoot the different coloured people
ctf in q3 is shat

i want q3 to be good, but its sooo unplayable on the net, and doesent offer much


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DR_FRANKENSTIEN

 

[old.[QOD]MoFo]

Managed to play Q3 over a LAN, with a zero ping (obviously) and I have to say thelooks like something from heaven.

MILES AND MILES more fun, no need to bother about framerate, or ping.

No I know why ISDN'ers have been having so much fun/success

Still to say tho, my original critisism's of the game still stand

Now to try Unreal Tourney out

 

[old.Dr_Grey]

Ok..here's my two penneth worth. Don't wanna really compare to UT too much.
Q3 is good. No question really.
Network code is the best ive ever played even with p-loss.
DM is good.
CTF needs work on scoreboards, whos on your team etc, a major oversite really.
No other mods doesnt help, but the most important thing is to get the engine right. I feel Id have done this, and its lacking with UT which has better mod/gameplay.
Q3 is very tweakable. I still have my £59 Celeron 300 @ 450 which I bought over a year ago, and Im getting over 60FPS in 800 with all settings high. From what I can see from my friends tho, anyone who has a 3dfx card is getting shitty opengl performance really, and a decent opengl card or drivers will sort that which 3dfx may do one day, tho I kinda feel theyre exposed to being not up to it atm. ( I dont hold Id responsible for that tho..they are leading the right way as far as Im concerned away from Glide)
By the way regarding LPB/HPB and framerates, for those who think LPBs have more advantage, make sure you set your snap setting right. Framerate is no longer reliant on ping and someone on a modem can have a framerate of 100 with no problems now, eliminating the framerate advantage LPBs previously had. Like I say check your snap setting..prob 30ish for modem 40 for ISDN as a v.rough guide.
Colours are lovely...on my card they are very rich and colourful unlike Q2 brown nastyness, only thing for me is I wish the skns were a little bit brighter...(anyone know how to do that?)
Hmm what else..not sure cept to say I find Q3 fluid and fun more than anything. Get no real framerate loss and that feels good in combat and enhances the experience more than UT can ever do for me tbh.
I love the game, so fluid and accurate compared to UT.
For those that havent had chance to tweak to get the most if you having probs, Id try the following....

set BOTH textures and mode to 32bit.
Turn off some features not needed such as...
seta r_fastsky 1
seta cg_gibs 0 (tho I like this )
seta cg_shadows 0
seta cg_draw3dicons 0
seta cg_drawattacker 0
seta cg_brasstime 0
seta cg_marks 0
seta snaps "39" (or 30 for modem)
seta cg_drawGun "0"
seta cg_forceModel "1" (if u short of ram)

Final thought...I just love the graphics in Q3, it blows me away everytime I see the colours and details theyve but in. I want more mods, but they will come soon. (even a 'decent' grapple). Weapons I can be so accurate compared to other games I shall not mention, which makes me feel somehow skilled compared to others, and I think thats one of the real reasons I love the game. UT (oopps didnt want to mention) I always seem to score high, but cant really account it to real skill as opposed to going through the motions and just having a better ping.

Sorry to ramble btw..

 

[SAS]

www.barrysworld.com/guides/quake3/

That last post has just reminded me my Quake3 guide is now up

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Posted by S.A.S
www.barrysworld.com/guides

 

[old.craigio]

Ok,

Right, I think the general feeling out there, is that there is room for improvement.

From what i have seen for it, the platform, lets admit it a platform and not a game.

It looks good and solid. Which is the first step towards to a good game.

Yep with anything nowadays, there will be a patch. With with q2 it came out to be v3.20, which took a yearish???.

So, its a matter of waiting i think, how long did it take for zoid to release the q2 ctf mod to the public,again it took time after the inital release.

So, Just hang in there people, I think this is the future of games development. Its key to be constructive, so lets think what we want and speak about it.
This has the making of producing a true quake commuiity for the people. With the comments made now making the final product.

So, good luck id

, the job has only just started!!!


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[This message has been edited by craigio (edited 30 December 1999).]

 

[old.B3Z]

I think from some of the later messages a few peeps have agreed with me that the end result is that the Q3a engine rocks.... the rest don't. If they spent so long debugging the bots which in my mind are crap why didnt they just leave it to a 3rd party. Q3a will eventually be an awsome game, but it will be down to the 3rd party programmers that will do that not ID. As for playing online I have found it OK if I can get on a server with a ping of 130 ish apart from that I just go back and forth while supposingly standing still!! as for a LAN, I have played with one other person but the test will be at the next NWFF where Q3 servers will be up and running

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<A HREF="http://www.nwff.org.uk
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[old.Courier]

I just picked up the game on Monday and I’m more than a little disappointed. I stopped playing the test about two months ago because I was bored with only one duel level. I always thought the duel map released with the test would be one of the worst in the game, but it now looks like it’s the best. I just find it absolutely unbelievable that after all of the time in development id have managed to produce only 3 duel maps that are worth playing. I’m sure if you got someone off the street they’d do a better job. Wasn’t one of the Q3 map designers responsible for dm1 and dm5 in Quake 1? Why hasn’t he been sacked?

The game engine, weapon, sounds, etc is alright but the map design is absolutely appalling (though the game in general doesn’t come close to the “ultimate deathmatch game” it was supposed to be). You know something’s wrong when all the duel servers seem to spend most of their time on dm17.

I’m just looking forward to playing Diakatana in multiplayer and seeing what someone with a real talent for producing games can do. Despite the development problems Diakatana suffered I still expect it to be a vastly better game than Quake 3. The sickening thing is that even if Diakatana is far better in multiplayer most people will stick with the below par Q3.

 

[HangTime]

mmm some interesting comments here.

well it seems to me that quake3 is the first game from my pov where hardware has such a massive effect on my enjoyment of the game. playing the q3/ut demos a cppl months back on a voodoo1 i decided pretty quick that i didnt like q3 one bit. thanks to iD's insistence on using the OpenGL api, framerate was atrocious, even dropping below 20 in places. compare this to ut which was actually playable on a v1, as epic spent the time coding for multiple apis. it seems obvious to me that glide is blatantly the fastest api, heck tnt2 users sometimes get more fps using a glide wrapper than d3d. neways. neway, ut fps was fairly smooth on a v1, min 37 av 55 max 92 according to a timedemo i ran across a game.

i have since upgraded to a v3-2000 o/c to 170mhz, and have to say that the difference this makes in q3 is astounding. timedemo demo001 has gone from 37.5 to 90.3fps on my celery 472.5A 64meg. it now looks a lot better even with similar gfx tweaks and is a lot smoother, fps are 40+ pretty much in game. it is so much more enjoyable. on my v1 i was finding single player hardcore fairly tuff going and had to drop to hurt me plenty, however as soon as i installed the v3 i was instantly as dominant on hardcore as i had been on HMP, and i was actually having fun rather than going thru the motions to check out the game.

in ut however, the effect was not so dramatic, i was rather disappointed in fact as while again gameplay was smoother, it wasnt really any more fun. i have tweaked both games very aggresively, and now i am prolly rating q3 being nearly as good as ut.

from what ppl have been saying connection speed is also more of a factor in q3 than it had been in previous quakes, a point i would have to agree with, in that modem play felt shite, whereas its ok in qw once u become accustomed to it.

so basically it seems that q3 may not be the best choice for ppl with lower end hardware, having seen and played the game on multiple pcs/setups i would say that a reasonable min spec would b a p2-400/tnt. ppl with lower end systems, especially v1/v2 owners, may find ut more enjoyable purely because of the fact it loox so much better with higher fps. a shame because the crap framerate may actually hide a reasonably good game from them :/

while 3dfx hardware isnt as blisterly fast in q3 as it is in other games, i would let that put ppl off purchasing one. i would b interested to hear the framerates ppl are getting from tnt2 cards, i expect my 90.3fps timedemo demo001 compares very favourably for 472.5mhz cpu and 64meg ram.