Your spec in weapon affects your blockrate?

[Pin]

Due to a few people disagreeing with me in this thread: http://forums.barrysworld.com/showthread.php?threadid=85908 I decided to spend an hour or so testing it...


So, rolled 2 level 20 armsmen, identical stats and equipment, specced 20shield, and varied their slash spec (and therefore their weaponskill) and duelled a bit.


Test 1

attacker: 1slash, 95str, 65dex, 216ws, 20shield.
defender: 1slash, 95str, 65dex, 216ws, 20shield.

Attacks: 276
Hits: 118 (42.8%)
Parries: 15 (5.4%) [5.4%]
Blocks: 121 (46.4%) [43.8%]
Misses: 22 (15.7%) [8.0%]

Test 2

attacker: 1slash, 95str, 65dex, 216ws, 20shield.
defender: 19slash, 95str, 65dex, 254ws, 20shield.

Attacks: 401
Hits: 166 (41.4%)
Parries: 13 (3.2%) [3.2%]
Blocks: 176 (45.4%) [43.9%]
Misses: 45 (21.2%) [11.2%]
Fumbles: 1 (0.2%)

Test 3

attacker: 19slash, 95str, 65dex, 254ws, 20shield.
defender: 1slash, 95str, 65dex, 216ws, 20shield.

Attacks: 491
Hits: 225 (45.8%)
Parries: 15 (3.1%) [3.1%]
Blocks: 201 (42.2%) [40.9%]
Misses: 49 (17.8%) [10.0%]
Fumbles: 1 (0.2%)

Test 4

attacker: 19slash, 95str, 65dex, 254ws, 20shield.
defender: 19slash, 95str, 65dex, 254ws, 20shield.

Attacks: 472
Hits: 227 (48.1%)
Parries: 17 (3.6%) [3.6%]
Blocks: 193 (42.4%) [40.9%]
Misses: 34 (13.0%) [7.2%]



Compare test 1 v 2, and compare 3 v 4.

Blockrate did not increase when the defender increased slash spec.

It did decrease when the attacker increased slash spec (duh!)

 

[Cap'n Sissyfoo]

People had the nerve to disagree with you?

 

[old.Tzeentch]

some threads
on vn
some guy
tested
too much to read
too much information
hibernia/guardian forums

general consensus appears to disagree with you pin :<

 

[infozwerg]

did you try attacking with shield styles?

 

[Jiggs]

guard is what all fuss is about...

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by old.Tzeentch
some threads
on vn
some guy
tested
too much to read
too much information
hibernia/guardian forums

general consensus appears to disagree with you pin :<

show thread

 

[Jiggs]

didnt u just prove yourself wrong anyway..

if u have higher WS than oppopnent u block them more?

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by infozwerg
did you try attacking with shield styles?

attacking with shield styles gives a completely different result as it's comparing your 'shield weaponskill', and not your ordinary weaponskill.

weaponskill (chance to bypass block/parry/evade with weapon swings) is governed by 1h spec, combined with your weapon stat (str for slash)

shield weaponskill (or chance to bypass block/parry/evade with shield styles) is governed by 1h spec, combined with dex.


chance to block opponents swings is governed by your shield spec, your dex, and their weaponskill.



It seems to me like some people have got confused by various VN threads?

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Jiggs
didnt u just prove yourself wrong anyway..

if u have higher WS than oppopnent u block them more?

no

if your opponent increases his weaponskill, he has a better chance to get through your shield (compare 1 v 3 or 2 v 4).

if you increase your weaponskill, your chance to block the same opponent does not change (compare 1 v 2 or 3 v 4).


There is no check made with your ws vs your opponent's ws.

 

[Jiggs]

hrm i think the test you wanna do then is if u buff the defenders str and str.con maybe?

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Jiggs
hrm i think the test you wanna do then is if u buff the defenders str and str.con maybe?

give 3rd account


(or someone bring a cleric outside camelot east gate)


Though I don't know what you would hope to see by doing that. What was said in the other thread was "raise your 1h weapon spec and you'll block more against the same attacker".

This is what I did already

 

[old.Tzeentch]

cba to dig deeper pin

but i think the kalysta person on the bottom is the one that did a billion tests with it

i didnt even read half of this btw.

http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=57347180&replies=7

 

[Vasconcelos]

Originally posted by Pin


It did decrease when the attacker increased slash spec (duh!)

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by old.Tzeentch
cba to dig deeper pin

but i think the kalysta person on the bottom is the one that did a billion tests with it

i didnt even read half of this btw.

http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=57347180&replies=7

By Kalysta in that thread:

"Has it been tested & proven that a 50+X shield spec Paladin with XXX DEX blocks LESS against an opponent, compared a 50+X shield spec Armsman (against same opponent) with same Dex as Palasin...due to lower Paladin weaponskill?

Based on my observations both seem to block the exact same, versus the same opponent, regardless of their personal weaponskill rating...it's only the weaponskill of your opponent that raises or lowers your defenses...your weaponskill does not affect your own defenses, only your opponent's."




Basically, it seems the poster "horuslvx" (and apparently others) has got a confused idea coming from other tests of 'Shield Weaponskill', which I described above.

And that test is here (actually was cross-posted on most boards): http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=56572121&replies=3

 

[JawZ]

Originally posted by Pin
weaponskill (chance to bypass block/parry/evade with weapon swings) is governed by 1h spec, combined with your weapon stat (str for slash)

Correct, and because of this, someone attacking a blocking/guarding person with higher weaponskill, they will have a smaller chanse to bypass their defenses.

 

[Ithurts]

To me its logical that ur own wpn skill doesnt improve chance to block...
Its logical that u shouldnt need a wpn spec to block more...
All u need is dex and shield spec...

 

[Ithurts]

If tank with 50 shield and 2k wpn skill gets hit by someone with 100 wpn skill hes gonna block exactly the same if he lost 1k wpn skill...

 

[JawZ]

Originally posted by Ithurts
If tank with 50 shield and 2k wpn skill gets hit by someone with 100 wpn skill hes gonna block exactly the same if he lost 1k wpn skill...

if he lost 1950 wpn skill, he would block less...

 

[Ithurts]

Originally posted by JawZ
if he lost 1950 wpn skill, he would block less...

No he wouldnt...
Pin just proved it...
Its kinda logical that wpn skill doesnt have anyhting to do with blocking imo...

 

[vintervargen]

pin seems right, as always. but for example i once duelled a LW specced rr7-8 hero when my luri pierce hero just got her SC and was rr1l1. i won flawless. :/

 

[infozwerg]

shield weaponskill (or chance to bypass block/parry/evade with shield styles) is governed by 1h spec, combined with dex.

well thats what im asking: did you try?

@ jawz:

 

[Haldar]

Pin, i have seen the info that highest of weapon spec / shield spec governs shield damage, not shield spec only (really strange imo)....dont have a link tho. but u wont get shield styles if u spec shield low.

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by JawZ
Correct, and because of this, someone attacking a blocking/guarding person with higher weaponskill, they will have a smaller chanse to bypass their defenses.

Nope. If your Warrior attacks a 50weapon, 50shield hero he will have EXACTLY the same chance to block you as a 1weapon, 50shield hero would (with the same stats).

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by infozwerg
well thats what im asking: did you try?

Didn't need to try. I gave the link where it was already tested: http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=56572121&replies=3

 

[Flimgoblin]

aye - the blocking part of it is fairly sensible..

a bit annoying that your slash spec affects how good you are at slamming/brutalizing etc.

 

[Cawr]

Originally posted by Cap'n Sissyfoo
People had the nerve to disagree with you?

 

[Flimgoblin]

any chance of another test to see what stats affect block-rate?

conventional wisdom suggests dex...

but qui might have an effect too, and str might

heck empathy might for all we know

Someone was contending that when they resisted an asasssins str/con poison they blocked more than when it landed.

The above test proves that it's not the change in weaponskill doing this...

So a check on whether str or con affect block-rate would prove whether or not it's just luck

 

[[DK]hakke]

Originally posted by Cap'n Sissyfoo
People had the nerve to disagree with you?

 

[old.Zarko]

Does Shield Weapskill exist, you can not find it anywhere.

Always wanted to know if 42+xx shield/39+xx blade spec would slam just as oftenor more than 50+shield/28+xx blade spec as the shown WS would get lower with 50/28 spec

 

[Pin]

Originally posted by Flimgoblin
a bit annoying that your slash spec affects how good you are at slamming/brutalizing etc.

A little annoying, yes.

In one way, it looks a little unfair to base it off weapon-spec than shield-spec, but you could also say that speccing in shield improves your defense, and speccing in 1h improves your offense when holding a 1h weapon. A shield style is an offensive act when holding a 1h weapon, so from this point of view it would be reasonable.

The only flaw in this premise that I can see is that Midgard doesn't have any real specs where shield-spec is much higher than weapon-spec, so could be seen as unfair:


For Albion, it means that (e.g.) low-weapon Scouts and Paladins have a harder time slamming than they would if it were based on shield-spec.

For Hibernia, (e.g.) hybrid Heroes face the same problem.

Midgard doesn't face this problem (nerf!!! ).