Your opinion

[Yeke]

OK the issues with CC have been well listed here so heres the main gripe I got.


REMOVE STEALTH.

Oh yes, without a shadow (excuse the pun) of a doubt stealth or invisability mode (which is what it amounts to) is the most overpowered ability in the game.
Bar none.
Playing as an invisable character is easy mode as far as I'm concerned.

I dont mind the idea of conceilment (sp?). After all a sniper toon like an ranger, scout or hunter should have the ability to nail you from conceilment (sp?).

But assasins just take the piss.

And every time Mythic introduce some method of uncovering those in invisable mode its a massive whine fest from the stealthers.....

IMO get rid of stealth and give archer types a form of conceilment (still not sure about that spelling you know).

Most Assasins lay out an extrodinary amount of DPS to warrant a group position anyway.

Think of them as positional fighters.

Let the flames commence.

LOL! sry but go play a shadowblade then when you have the first clue come back and repost that drivel.

On topic, Cast speed, Grapple, BG, mastery of stealth, archer range inalance, and life tap doing more damage than DD's and also stealing life uke:

 

[Rookiescot]

LOL! sry but go play a shadowblade then when you have the first clue come back and repost that drivel.

On topic, Cast speed, Grapple, BG, mastery of stealth, archer range inalance, and life tap doing more damage than DD's and also stealing life uke:

See .This is where you are wrong.
I have played level 50 stealth toons and i binned them.
Why? Because playing in easy mode was not for me.

Its only players who are incapable of playing visable toons who choose to play invisable ones.

Now go re-read my post then come back with a sensible reply.

Stealth IS the most overpowered ability in game.

 

[Rookiescot]

Great idea. Let's give archers pea-shooters instead of bows and assassins feather dusters instead of swords while we're at it.

Back to topic...

Cast speeds and baseline stun for Hib casters.

Try reading the post before you answer.

 

[Notirt]

baseline stunn duration and cast speed.
How many nukes can u hib casters land on a stunn nowdays ?

 

[Cybwyn]

Try reading the post before you answer.

Care to explain what makes you think I didn't read it?

I answered your suggestion with a couple which I think are just as reasonable as yours, so what's the problem?

 

[Rookiescot]

Care to explain what makes you think I didn't read it?

I answered your suggestion with a couple which I think are just as reasonable as yours, so what's the problem?

Ah yes your well worded and utterly convincing feather dusters and pea shooters reply?

Just go back and READ my original post please.

Then post a reasonable suggestion as to why invisability should remain in game.

 

[Cybwyn]

Hmmm.... why should invisibility remain in the game?

Let's see...

Assassins wear leather armour, have low hitpoints (compared to tanks) and no form of defence against ranged attacks.

Archers wear studded armour, have low hitpoints (compared to tanks) and 2 archer classes have no form of defence against ranged attacks (ignoring the ML9 Sojourner ability).

Assassins' critical strikes are dependent upon it.

In most cases, an archer wanting to land a crit shot depends on it. Who'd be dumb enough to stand still if they could see someone lining them up for a crit shot?

Just a few good reasons there but I think the first 2 are the most important.

 

[Tiques]

OK the issues with CC have been well listed here so heres the main gripe I got.


REMOVE STEALTH.

Could just start saying dumb stuff to you, but think I will argue with you instead

Oh yes, without a shadow (excuse the pun) of a doubt stealth or invisability mode (which is what it amounts to) is the most overpowered ability in the game.
Bar none.
Playing as an invisable character is easy mode as far as I'm concerned.

First a question, you can answer if you cba to reply: Do you, by any chance, have a 50 stealther of any kind? Bar Minstrel, as they might be a tip over the edge for judgeing

Secondly, lets have a look at some LRP statics (Last Week Realm Points):

Alb:
Scout rank #1 (Goes towards you point)
Infiltrator rank #18 (Not so much easy mode for these, it seems)
Minstrel rank # 6 (That should be counted for, as minstrel dont only use stealth, but as it is Kklas, most of it might come from stealth-battling)

Mid:
Hunter rank #16 (Thats below the number of classes, seems not so overpowered)
Shadowblade rank #23 (Even lower, insanely overpowered? )

Hib:
Ranger rank # 7 (Not bad, not bad, but not really overpowered unmatches by anything else, is it?)
Nightshade rank #16 (We see a pattern now?)

They all have some in top 20 for their realm, but that is not overpowered, but lets have a look on the general part:

All Realms:
Archer rank # 4 (Hanging in the top)
Assassin rank # None present in top 10 (daoc.goa.com/en > Roll of Honor only show top 10 when showing all realms)

Okay, this dont look so overpowered, the archers are generally doing better than the assassins, but NF is a lot about range and we dont know the activity level of these people, but to note is all of the top stealthers have a Realm Rank of above RR5 bar Yendora (nice job though)

So by the LRP, they dont seem oddly overpowered, looking up total RP's will not show much, as we are talking current game situation and not total history, if you somehow fell they are relevant to the discussion, fell free to fetch them yourself

I dont mind the idea of conceilment (sp?). After all a sniper toon like an ranger, scout or hunter should have the ability to nail you from conceilment (sp?).

But assasins just take the piss.

Do you by any chance play an archer or something? Cause, hold on a second, didn't I just show the ARCHERS performing BETTER than the ASSASSINS already? Why you want not to nerf archers as much as assassins i beyond me, looking at the LRP statistics and playing the game, I dont really get the fell that Archers are in anyway sub-pair to assassins after assassins loosing the See Hidden RA (insanely overpowered in Archer vs Assassin combat, one good thing Mythic got right was to remove this tool of death)

So, you own an Archer? I accually misread your name as RookieScout at first, but that might accually be a coincident...

And every time Mythic introduce some method of uncovering those in invisable mode its a massive whine fest from the stealthers.....

Magics would whine if a change made magic less powerfull..

Shield Tanks would whine if shields block rate was nerfed..

Healers would whine if heal-spells was nerfed...

Whats your point? Stealth is the fundamental thing about the class and the reason people picked to play this specific class to begin with, they dont want to loose the ability they love on their class or have it reduced to nothingness by nerfes...

,
IMO get rid of stealth and give archer types a form of conceilment (still not sure about that spelling you know).

Again you seem to want to not be hasty about nerfing the archers, but you want them nerfed, so you probarly dont play one... got a good friend who do?

Most Assasins lay out an extrodinary amount of DPS to warrant a group position anyway.

Think of them as positional fighters.

Bar that:

Assasins have less weaponskill than light tanks (potional fighters, as you call them) (I might be wrong, but I was told so once, never tested)

Assassins have less hitpoints than lighttanks (Bar the Shadowblade, but he have less spec-points)

But make PA work without stealth and we will cut it a deal, aye? no? Well, then let me keep the stealth for the love of pete? It is the CLASS, no, it is NOT A PART OF THE CLASS, it freaking IS THE CLASS!!!

Ask anyone who Playes an Archer or an Assassin and they will tell you they would rather loose crit-shot and PA damage than loosing stealth, but you the reason we have still kept Crit-shots and PA-damage is the fact that our basic melee damage cannot match the damage output from a lighttank, our hp is not near their hp range, our utility (bar stealth and stealth-openers) is nowhere near compare-able to their utility (zerker-mode, 3rd sword, dirty tricks etc)

If you wanted to remove stealth from the assasins and archers, you would have to give them something else that is extremely powerfull, perhaps making PA, BS and Crit-shot work while unstealthed, under some restrictions ofc, but they would have to work, and it would still make 90% of all stealthers quit, we did not pick the class to be running group combat light-potional-tanks, we picked it to sneak around and pick our own fights.

You meet a stealther 1on1? He wins, he got the element of surprice and nice opening damage if done correctly, he will win 90% of the fights, if no adds shows and you have no "secret weapon of mass-destruction" ready to blow him to hell.

but see this for you:

3 Lighttanks
1 Shield Tanks
1 Mezzer
2 Spread-Healers
1 Utitly giver (shaman for mid, theurg/caba for albs, warden for hib)

vs:

8 Stealthers

Would you bet your money on the stealthers? No? Why not? Ah, they dont stand a chance in hell? Well, excuse me, how was they insanely overpowered again then?

Let the flames commence.

I dont think I have flamed you, just questioned your arguements and statements, so I will leave this part to somebody else...

 

[Tiques]

Add:

See .This is where you are wrong.
I have played level 50 stealth toons and i binned them.
Why? Because playing in easy mode was not for me.

Its only players who are incapable of playing visable toons who choose to play invisable ones.

Now go re-read my post then come back with a sensible reply.

Stealth IS the most overpowered ability in game.

I choose stealther at first because a friend told me to make an archer to come play with him and his mate, got bored of leveing the hunter at lvl 24 though, so tried something else.

Played a SM and a Healer, pretty nice toons and a lot of fun, friends started to quit the game, guild being a bit inactive on the RvR side of things, wanting to battle, I rolled a infiltrator on another server and leveled on the side of other things.

Suddenly got him to level 50, got him kited out (Ah, dear SI days, so easy back then) and started to RvR and was killed alot, killed a few, had fun

I rolled him because I couldnt handle the "non-easy-mode no-stealth RvR"??? No, I rolled him so I could SOLO in RvR, pick my fights and have fun..

Today I play it because I love the toon, it is fun to be a stealther, I win more than I loose, if I discount the battles where adds pop near or come running middle of the fight, but wouldnt consider myself overpowered, beside maybe combared to SB's, until lately where I faced 2-3 quite good ones who royally served me my behind on a plate, but they also seemed ToA-kited to the teeth..

You think stealth is easy mode? When you played and which stealthers? As it could sound like you played SB before LA nerf or something or back before melee damage was nerfed over-all and first nerf to stealth (instant kill not breaking stealth)

EDIT: Changed top a bit, hit reply to own tread instead of edit it, nerf...

 

[Kagato]

I don't know if there are such a post made already, but - what do you think is the most unbalancing issue of todays rvr? Please name only one issue.

Personally, I find sorc mez (with added range bonus) really frustrating.
Thanks.

I find instant mezz really frustrating, but we've had to put up with that for 3 years already,

 

[Jaison X]

Remove MLs.
Remove overpowered rr5 abilities compared to sucky ones.
Remove NF RAs... Give purge every30min.. or cc is total crap
Casttime is a great idea, cap of 2sec is ok.

 

[Rookiescot]

Hmmm.... why should invisibility remain in the game?

Let's see...

Assassins wear leather armour, have low hitpoints (compared to tanks) and no form of defence against ranged attacks.

Archers wear studded armour, have low hitpoints (compared to tanks) and 2 archer classes have no form of defence against ranged attacks (ignoring the ML9 Sojourner ability).

Assassins' critical strikes are dependent upon it.

In most cases, an archer wanting to land a crit shot depends on it. Who'd be dumb enough to stand still if they could see someone lining them up for a crit shot?

Just a few good reasons there but I think the first 2 are the most important.

Yes assassin classes would have to be rewarded with other abilities if stealth was removed.
The classes would have to be reworked a little to compensate.
For example.... their armour might have to be upgraded to studded leather?.
Wouldnt go much higher than studded because of the high level of evade they have.
Perhaps PA could be a reactionary from an evade? Or put on a timer or something.
As for no form of defense against ranged attacks? Well there are a lot of classes who have no defense against ranged attack.

 

[Rookiescot]

Could just start saying dumb stuff to you, but think I will argue with you instead



First a question, you can answer if you cba to reply: Do you, by any chance, have a 50 stealther of any kind? Bar Minstrel, as they might be a tip over the edge for judgeing

Secondly, lets have a look at some LRP statics (Last Week Realm Points):

Alb:
Scout rank #1 (Goes towards you point)
Infiltrator rank #18 (Not so much easy mode for these, it seems)
Minstrel rank # 6 (That should be counted for, as minstrel dont only use stealth, but as it is Kklas, most of it might come from stealth-battling)

Mid:
Hunter rank #16 (Thats below the number of classes, seems not so overpowered)
Shadowblade rank #23 (Even lower, insanely overpowered? )

Hib:
Ranger rank # 7 (Not bad, not bad, but not really overpowered unmatches by anything else, is it?)
Nightshade rank #16 (We see a pattern now?)

They all have some in top 20 for their realm, but that is not overpowered, but lets have a look on the general part:

All Realms:
Archer rank # 4 (Hanging in the top)
Assassin rank # None present in top 10 (daoc.goa.com/en > Roll of Honor only show top 10 when showing all realms)

Okay, this dont look so overpowered, the archers are generally doing better than the assassins, but NF is a lot about range and we dont know the activity level of these people, but to note is all of the top stealthers have a Realm Rank of above RR5 bar Yendora (nice job though)

So by the LRP, they dont seem oddly overpowered, looking up total RP's will not show much, as we are talking current game situation and not total history, if you somehow fell they are relevant to the discussion, fell free to fetch them yourself



Do you by any chance play an archer or something? Cause, hold on a second, didn't I just show the ARCHERS performing BETTER than the ASSASSINS already? Why you want not to nerf archers as much as assassins i beyond me, looking at the LRP statistics and playing the game, I dont really get the fell that Archers are in anyway sub-pair to assassins after assassins loosing the See Hidden RA (insanely overpowered in Archer vs Assassin combat, one good thing Mythic got right was to remove this tool of death)

So, you own an Archer? I accually misread your name as RookieScout at first, but that might accually be a coincident...



Magics would whine if a change made magic less powerfull..

Shield Tanks would whine if shields block rate was nerfed..

Healers would whine if heal-spells was nerfed...

Whats your point? Stealth is the fundamental thing about the class and the reason people picked to play this specific class to begin with, they dont want to loose the ability they love on their class or have it reduced to nothingness by nerfes...



Again you seem to want to not be hasty about nerfing the archers, but you want them nerfed, so you probarly dont play one... got a good friend who do?



Bar that:

Assasins have less weaponskill than light tanks (potional fighters, as you call them) (I might be wrong, but I was told so once, never tested)

Assassins have less hitpoints than lighttanks (Bar the Shadowblade, but he have less spec-points)

But make PA work without stealth and we will cut it a deal, aye? no? Well, then let me keep the stealth for the love of pete? It is the CLASS, no, it is NOT A PART OF THE CLASS, it freaking IS THE CLASS!!!

Ask anyone who Playes an Archer or an Assassin and they will tell you they would rather loose crit-shot and PA damage than loosing stealth, but you the reason we have still kept Crit-shots and PA-damage is the fact that our basic melee damage cannot match the damage output from a lighttank, our hp is not near their hp range, our utility (bar stealth and stealth-openers) is nowhere near compare-able to their utility (zerker-mode, 3rd sword, dirty tricks etc)

If you wanted to remove stealth from the assasins and archers, you would have to give them something else that is extremely powerfull, perhaps making PA, BS and Crit-shot work while unstealthed, under some restrictions ofc, but they would have to work, and it would still make 90% of all stealthers quit, we did not pick the class to be running group combat light-potional-tanks, we picked it to sneak around and pick our own fights.

You meet a stealther 1on1? He wins, he got the element of surprice and nice opening damage if done correctly, he will win 90% of the fights, if no adds shows and you have no "secret weapon of mass-destruction" ready to blow him to hell.

but see this for you:

3 Lighttanks
1 Shield Tanks
1 Mezzer
2 Spread-Healers
1 Utitly giver (shaman for mid, theurg/caba for albs, warden for hib)

vs:

8 Stealthers

Would you bet your money on the stealthers? No? Why not? Ah, they dont stand a chance in hell? Well, excuse me, how was they insanely overpowered again then?



I dont think I have flamed you, just questioned your arguements and statements, so I will leave this part to somebody else...

Nice post mate. I actualy enjoyed reading that.
To answer a couple of your points...
Yes stealth toons would have to be compensated if they loose their stealth ability. (I have covered that in the post I made just above this one so I won't go over it again).

No I do not play any stealth characters any more.

No its not that I want to see assassins nerfed and archer types not to be nerfed.
The "conceilment" (can someone tell me if that is the right spelling btw?) ability I was thinking of for archer types would take say 10 seconds to complete and the toon would have to remain still while doing it. This represents him forming his "hide" location from which he will snipe at his enamy. Again archers would have to be compensated for loosing their stealth ability. Maybe a hefty self run speed buff so they can get themselves away from trouble after they have sniped? (not a timed one like the Ranger has at the moment).

 

[Awarkle]

i want to see assist removed from rvr.

Too many people /assist and insta kill would be better to see people with skills to actually pick out their own target for once.

Only time assist is useful is targetting towers or doors other than that its overpowered.

Bring back balanced groups Tanks + casters in the same group.
O yeah and lag casting

 

[Blackstuff]

It's concealment mate.

 

[Tiques]

Nice post mate. I actualy enjoyed reading that.
To answer a couple of your points...
Yes stealth toons would have to be compensated if they loose their stealth ability. (I have covered that in the post I made just above this one so I won't go over it again).

No I do not play any stealth characters any more.

No its not that I want to see assassins nerfed and archer types not to be nerfed.
The "conceilment" (can someone tell me if that is the right spelling btw?) ability I was thinking of for archer types would take say 10 seconds to complete and the toon would have to remain still while doing it. This represents him forming his "hide" location from which he will snipe at his enamy. Again archers would have to be compensated for loosing their stealth ability. Maybe a hefty self run speed buff so they can get themselves away from trouble after they have sniped? (not a timed one like the Ranger has at the moment).

I see your point m8, a class with a timered PA or something could be fun, true true, maybe make it like now, front style, 10 seconds timer (stealth timer) from last hit in RvR, if you miss, you can choose to avoid combat 10 sec or just use normal styles, that COULD work.

But the main point is, which assassins would stay if such a change was made?

Nobody I guess, surdenly not me, it is the hole moving arround undetected that makes the class fun (fun, not overpowered) in my eyes...

 

[Aoln]

So you want to turn assassins intoa hybrid tank? Just a new type of a hybrid tank with a timed style.

 

[Helme]

Sorceror mez, is all I would consider really overpowered.

 

[chretien]

About the stealther debate, why not make stealth work like it does for friendly stealthers. You can't see them at range but as they get close they are visible but hard to see. Stealthers still get to pick their fights and pass through areas undetected however they don't get the silly 'I am invisible while standing in front of you in a featureless field' ability. They would keep their abilities like climb walls and safefall so they'd still be useful in keep battles.
Critical strike would have to be reworked of course, and should make assassins closer to what they should be - very strong in the first few seconds of a fight but in trouble if their target hasn't been crippled by the first few blows.
Overall I think stealthers are far too powerful as they stand.

 

[Yeke]

See .This is where you are wrong.
I have played level 50 stealth toons and i binned them.
Why? Because playing in easy mode was not for me.

Its only players who are incapable of playing visable toons who choose to play invisable ones.

Now go re-read my post then come back with a sensible reply.

Stealth IS the most overpowered ability in game.

I see, was kinda wndering if you actually believed stealth was the most overpowered ability in the game or was just blowing hot air since it seems the first is true I hardly see any point in trying to convince you otherwise, by your own admission you dont play any stealth class now and so cannot possably comment on what playing one is like.

I'll reiterate go roll a shadowblade and see if your opinion changes.

P.s What overpowered stealth class did you play and when (what patch)? because your opinions seem to be very outdated.

 

[Rookiescot]

I see, was kinda wndering if you actually believed stealth was the most overpowered ability in the game or was just blowing hot air since it seems the first is true I hardly see any point in trying to convince you otherwise, by your own admission you dont play any stealth class now and so cannot possably comment on what playing one is like.

I'll reiterate go roll a shadowblade and see if your opinion changes.

P.s What overpowered stealth class did you play and when (what patch)? because your opinions seem to be very outdated.

Indeed it has been a long time since I played my infiltrator. Must be almost 2 years in fact.
However to my knowledge stealth has not been changed since?
Anyway my reason for feeling that stealth is an overpowered ability is because as a non stealth toon there is NOTHING I can do to counter it.
With virtually all other abilities (and whether they are overpowered or not is always a matter of opinion) I can effect my character to offset them somewhat.
For example I can boost certain resists, or get certain RA's, or items, or spec my character a certain way...
However there is nothing that I know of which I can get or do as a non stealth character that will counter stealth.

 

[Haggus]

Remove ToA and artifacts, enough said

 

[Fana]

Indeed it has been a long time since I played my infiltrator. Must be almost 2 years in fact.
However to my knowledge stealth has not been changed since?
Anyway my reason for feeling that stealth is an overpowered ability is because as a non stealth toon there is NOTHING I can do to counter it.
With virtually all other abilities (and whether they are overpowered or not is always a matter of opinion) I can effect my character to offset them somewhat.
For example I can boost certain resists, or get certain RA's, or items, or spec my character a certain way...
However there is nothing that I know of which I can get or do as a non stealth character that will counter stealth.

Plenty of artifacts with Stealthlore. Pop it before entering a stealth hotspot and you will see any stealther close to you.

 

[Jaem-]

Lets just stick a lvl cap at 5, then hopefully no one will whine about classes... :^0

 

[Tiques]

Lets just stick a lvl cap at 5, then hopefully no one will whine about classes... :^0

problem would be, that all casters would be 1-buttom newbies then

 

[Afran]

Hib baseline stun! (ok it's not a class but oh well xD)

 

[Void959]

I don't tend to take much notice of people who whine about stealthers as they usually turn out to be solo-casters, funny that. The whole point of stealthers, assassins particularly, is that they *SHOULD be able to take out ONE individual, one on one*, but not be very useful (ie. dead) in a sustained or group fight. The result is that an average assassin will own solo casters, have a reasonable chance against most solo tanks, and never stand against certain other tanks particularly DWers. But if the stealther attacks anybody in a well organised group, he can only expect to get the one kill, then die. Of course group members often need only wait a while to be rezzed, whereas the stealther doesn't have this luxury.

As for archers, most of the high rank is gained by standing on towers and taking potshots for hours on end, particularly in the case of scouts, who generally don't bother with melee at all. Even if there is a case for nerfing these, you certainly can't place assassins, and even most hunters/rangers in the same basket.

 

[Jaem-]

Assasins and Archers are reasonable classes compared to many others, its just they come in more then 2+ at a time.

Most archers are towerhumpers kinda like 1 button boring play like a BD, get someone to spam nearsight, or an ae dot at them, usualy if they don't IP/Purge, they'll die to a couple of AE DoT's being casted cause they prob won't have any heals there.

If you took away hib stun, then they'd need some other form of CC to replace it imo.

Tanks should be more usefull keep things also, tho there is siege equipment, but tbh they've never had any other job then wack doors or protect the caster/support. ^_^

But if the stealther attacks anybody in a well organised group, he can only expect to get the one kill, then die

Maybe, but even DI1 will > an assasin sneakly trying to take out one in a group.

 

[Yeke]

Indeed it has been a long time since I played my infiltrator. Must be almost 2 years in fact.
However to my knowledge stealth has not been changed since?
Anyway my reason for feeling that stealth is an overpowered ability is because as a non stealth toon there is NOTHING I can do to counter it.
With virtually all other abilities (and whether they are overpowered or not is always a matter of opinion) I can effect my character to offset them somewhat.
For example I can boost certain resists, or get certain RA's, or items, or spec my character a certain way...
However there is nothing that I know of which I can get or do as a non stealth character that will counter stealth.

Stealth Iitself hasnt changed much however Mastery of stealth, PN, Brittle guards, insane cast speeds, NF introducing keeps with stealth guards and climb points that are badly designed and positioned, stealth lore items and various RA's that make escaping/or killing your attacker far easier than ever before.

The fact is any of theese at one time can be difficult combined with other things thay make attacking most class's absolute suicide, have to go to work but will probably think of more things later.

 

[Culanan]

Assasins and Archers are reasonable classes compared to many others, its just they come in more then 2+ at a time.

Most archers are towerhumpers kinda like 1 button boring play like a BD, get someone to spam nearsight, or an ae dot at them, usualy if they don't IP/Purge, they'll die to a couple of AE DoT's being casted cause they prob won't have any heals there.

If you took away hib stun, then they'd need some other form of CC to replace it imo.

Tanks should be more usefull keep things also, tho there is siege equipment, but tbh they've never had any other job then wack doors or protect the caster/support. ^_^


Maybe, but even DI1 will > an assasin sneakly trying to take out one in a group.

That's basically the case, for any solo visible class it's a problem because it's a bit much 2v1 but guess what, mythic don't balance classes on that basis, it's 1v1 or 8v8 and that's it!

The main problem for non-stealthers is they don't see stealthers soon enough because they get inside your detection bubble fast enough to hit you before the game checks they are there. Considering charges/instas etc if that were not the case then no stealther would get away from casters or have the element of surprise.

And why do people QQ non-stop about losing to a class? I lose quite regurlarly to some players/classes but wth, I win more than I lose and I do enjoy the fight no matter the outcome.

And as for AOE dots, two wouldn't kill a towerhumper, just buy a druid at the hookpoint and poof, you have your very own healer, not uber but enough to save you from being whipped