Your ideal MMORPG

[Damini]

Ok, here's a little something to get a discussion going. Anyone who turns this into a personal argument will get left in a dark room with no milk and biscuits.

What would be your ideal roleplay game? Where and when would it be set? Would there be massive battles, or small squirmishes? Would it be divided into different realms, or would it be one land pitted against an AI enemy, or something else? Would your character be an uberlord or would you like it to be within the realms or normality - a baker who can use his sword a bit, an archer, a bard, so on...

My ideal MMORPG would start off completely unmapped, so you begin in a little village and then once you decide you are ready you can set off to find fame and fortune, and you'd literally have to set off into the big unknown. Either that, or wait for travellers to come to you, and then you could exchange details of the world beyond.

My ideal game would have crafting as part of your character, not something you just tag on as just superflous but actually something that counts to who you are. I think being a merchant, a baker, a woodsman is everybit as valid as being a fighter, mage.

My ideal game wouldn't label you MAGE, WARRIOR, HEALER - you'd look and dress as you wanted and it would be up to people to find out what you are. Hell, if you wanted to dress like a wizard and pretend you are one, fine, if we need a fireball and find out all you can do is cook a mean loaf of bread, then great I'm all for surprises.

My ideal game wouldn't have classes, or levels per se. I'd like a life set in a fantasy setting, rather than a wizard emulator or a healer emulator or whatever. I'd like to meet someone on the way who's managed to carve something neat, or hunt something, and I'd like to be able to learn how to do that, rather than be told I can't because I was made Wizard shaped.

My ideal MMORPG would definately be in a fantasy setting, with larger and smaller plots going on. I dislike the whole land versus land versus land game, I'd rather have games where you can decide to play good or evil, and scales within that - you can be evil simply by mugging people in the forests, or you can be evil by joining the darkest army. I'd like creatures that have alignments - is it me, or are all hooge creatures is these games evil? Maybe a changing landscape that reflects the balance of good and evil in the land - bleak winter when evil is winning, and so on.

Anyway, thats my ideal game.

Your turn.

 

[~Mobius~]

I think this Middle Earth Online (Lord of the Rings) rpg will be my ideal rpg.

A massive landscaped with a proper history and backround behind every town etc.
Good and evil but you arnt restricted to just one type.
Plus its lotr so how can it suck.

 

[boromire]

My ideal rpg would probally be set in a medieval era although I'm unsure whever it would be set in an Oriental or European setting.
It would be as realistic as possible so mobs would be either human or animal.

Starting off as a peasant you can train in one of many area's such as an archer, footsoldier or medic, and by gaining points you can spec in various lines and gain skills, but you would be able to go from one area to another which would define your class. Also choice you make in the game such as being dishonourable in your actions could alter your class ie. to a mercenary or Ronin.

The action would be focused on PVE in a feudal set up, so you can serve the Lord (or Daiyamo) of a kingdom and if you perform well you become a Knight who can recruit lower orders to his unit. Lands would be protected by keeps of various sizes and types which could be captured, so adding land to their kingdoms. To capture a keep siege equipment would be a necessity, and crafts men such as armourers would have to bring their wares in a convoy to keep the army armed and fed for it to be effective.

Sorry that I went on just been thinking of it for a while.

 

[Brannor McThife]

Originally posted by mobiusmid
Plus its lotr so how can it suck.

It can suck, because Turbine is creating it. And they're in the process of doing an almost complete overhaul of all the classes in AC2. They recently almost completely replaced more than half of the Ranger skill tree. Issues that existed since beta, are still around today. Imagine making all the creatures you find in DAoC 5-10 levels higher, increasing their spells they can use against you, make them harder to hit, make them hit you harder, and change your class while at it.

Anway, on the topic. I agree with a lot of what Damini says. What I would like to see is, a dynamic AI, with "live in" NPC players. What made the EoB event so good? It had real people playing the NPCs, that would respond to 99% of what you said, and would reply differently each time...changing the clues day to day. Take LotR for instance, GMs/NPCs that have campaigns that take place. An Orc chieftain NPC, that will launch attacks on various player settlements in an ongoing campaign. Someone that players can have direct input to if they were orcs. Like... "An Orc messenger has arrived in your camp with news that Gnarsh is about to attack the village of XXX and that all warriors are summoned to his aid" (well, in orcish ). And then only the orcs know about it and off they go.

Languages. using LotR again and the MERP type gaming (I.C.E.), we could not have "realms", but the actual sides, with full on languages making you different. Hobbits can't understand orcs and goblins, nor elves, etc. Take the MERP rule set for languages and many of the skills, and you half way to a winner.

For me, it's not so much fantasy or futuristic, but about a LIVING WORLD. AC2 got boring for me because things didn't happen all the time. In the last week or two, they've had scripted events of undead invasions, which was a nice change...but they were cyclical...24/7...but they used server broadcasts to let you know they were happening. SI has quite a few scripted events in it, but they too, are cyclical.

If someone brings out a MMORPG in which one of their main focusses, are a trully living world, with ongoing creature wars, raids, quests, I'll be with them forever. LotR has a hell of a lot of potential for a trully racial/good-vs-evil world. I just pray they make active content.

Also (heh...you got me started)...if I were to play an elven archer (Thinking of all the Legolas-wannabes), I would have to be part of a military unit, and follow orders, or be stripped of everything and tossed into the wilderness. Heh...if I was an orc, I'd have to bring in a certain number of elf trophies to maintain my stature in the tribe. If I was a hobbit, I could just live on my land, grow crops and smoke weed- I mean - pipeweed.

I hope I've got the idea across of a living, dynamic world. Where you can XP like you do in DAoC, AC2, SWG, etc...just "kill stuff". Or you can advance by simply living your life, and defending your little hamlet against those invading goblins etc. But they may leave you alone for a while...build up their forces if you don't kill them, and oneday attack.

Anyway...I'll stop rambling there.

-G

 

[DocWolfe]

my ideal mmorpg is a game that actually requires some skill, where level as such doesn't affect your ability to kill someone else, enough of this chance crap, the ability to be able to define yourself through your character. Instead of target, attack.

While incorporating alot of stuff Brannor said... where content actually changes with your character.

 

[~Mobius~]

Originally posted by Brannor McThife
It can suck, because Turbine is creating it. And they're in the process of doing an almost complete overhaul of all the classes in AC2. They recently almost completely replaced more than half of the Ranger skill tree. Issues that existed since beta, are still around today. Imagine making all the creatures you find in DAoC 5-10 levels higher, increasing their spells they can use against you, make them harder to hit, make them hit you harder, and change your class while at it.

Anway, on the topic. I agree with a lot of what Damini says. What I would like to see is, a dynamic AI, with "live in" NPC players. What made the EoB event so good? It had real people playing the NPCs, that would respond to 99% of what you said, and would reply differently each time...changing the clues day to day. Take LotR for instance, GMs/NPCs that have campaigns that take place. An Orc chieftain NPC, that will launch attacks on various player settlements in an ongoing campaign. Someone that players can have direct input to if they were orcs. Like... "An Orc messenger has arrived in your camp with news that Gnarsh is about to attack the village of XXX and that all warriors are summoned to his aid" (well, in orcish ). And then only the orcs know about it and off they go.

Languages. using LotR again and the MERP type gaming (I.C.E.), we could not have "realms", but the actual sides, with full on languages making you different. Hobbits can't understand orcs and goblins, nor elves, etc. Take the MERP rule set for languages and many of the skills, and you half way to a winner.

For me, it's not so much fantasy or futuristic, but about a LIVING WORLD. AC2 got boring for me because things didn't happen all the time. In the last week or two, they've had scripted events of undead invasions, which was a nice change...but they were cyclical...24/7...but they used server broadcasts to let you know they were happening. SI has quite a few scripted events in it, but they too, are cyclical.

If someone brings out a MMORPG in which one of their main focusses, are a trully living world, with ongoing creature wars, raids, quests, I'll be with them forever. LotR has a hell of a lot of potential for a trully racial/good-vs-evil world. I just pray they make active content.

Also (heh...you got me started)...if I were to play an elven archer (Thinking of all the Legolas-wannabes), I would have to be part of a military unit, and follow orders, or be stripped of everything and tossed into the wilderness. Heh...if I was an orc, I'd have to bring in a certain number of elf trophies to maintain my stature in the tribe. If I was a hobbit, I could just live on my land, grow crops and smoke weed- I mean - pipeweed.

I hope I've got the idea across of a living, dynamic world. Where you can XP like you do in DAoC, AC2, SWG, etc...just "kill stuff". Or you can advance by simply living your life, and defending your little hamlet against those invading goblins etc. But they may leave you alone for a while...build up their forces if you don't kill them, and oneday attack.

Anyway...I'll stop rambling there.

-G

I was a bit worring when I heard Turbine was creating it but there really listening to the people on the boards at http://forums.middle-earthonline.com and taking into consideration the ideas we have.
They've already spoke about implementing a language system where you would type with a certain command and only Elves of the same tribe would understand. (In lotr there were many languages to one race depending whereabouts in Middle Earth you lived)
Also they are hoping to implement smoke blowing as a kind of craft, where as you become more skilled in it you can make dragons head from your pipe like Gandalf in the movie.
Well its 2 years away but so far it sounds absolutly amazing, guess I'm just a Tolkien freak but imagine the possibilities, I sure hope Turbine do us proud.
I like how there are 2 forces, good and evil, and apparently your actions ingame will affect your status with either side. If you kill an innocent person then merchants will act negatively towards you, but if you slay many Orcs you will become well known for your heroics but also will be more hunted by enemies.
There are a few videos out, the graphics look excellent (Asherons Call 2 engine afaik) and they have done an excellent job of replicating a Hobbit town.
Another interesting thing is that guilds will have strongholds in town, for example my guild, The Knights of Dol Amroth will be located in the city of Dol Amroth, we will have patrols on our borders and will protect our city from evil whilst helping those around us as well.
The game is still a long way off and alot isnt known about it, but its definatly got the potential to be the best, lotr has so much background and story thanks to Tolkien he has shaped the world already, now Turbine just have to make it a reality.

 

[Aoami]

Mine would be something like DAoC, but removing the realms, say just having realm like Albion. Have real history, real places, towns etc. Guild keeps, go round laying seige to other guilds keeps and rule the world muahahaha

 

[SilverHood]

My ideal MMORPG would be set in a fantasy land, newly ravaged by a massive earthquake.
The lay of the land is totally new to everyone, and lands in the past are no more, and it would be up to the players to forge the shards of the world into their own image.
Apart from small villages, and the occasional empty ruin, the world would be devoid of cities and it will be up to players to build and maintain cities.

Race would be an important role, as before the earthquake, the orcs, kobolds, trolls and elves were waging war upon the human and dwarves. The orcs, kobolds and trolls as one temporary united faction, fighting the Human and Dwarf alliance, and the elves fighting both among them selves, and against the other 2 confederations.

Each race would have their own gods, which grants them power. These deities would walk the land, aiding their children and followers in conflict, when needed, or, if called upon.

There would be no classes per se: your "class" would be defined by your skills. Ie, as a fighting character, you may be labeled a warrior. Worship your Deity of life, and you become a warrior priest, capable of clerical feats such as healing and strengthening those around you. Be a fighting character, and worship the deity of death, and you could become a Cambion, a dark knight, with or without honour, for it is the player that decides whether they are evil or not.... everyone has their time of death marked, and cambions assist their Deity in their goals.
These classes are hidden from others view... but as you play, you gain lore, and are better able to identify targets.. ie, se a man in a robe with a staff, and it may say "weak old man", but he could be a powerful mage... attack him, and get you ass kicked, and you will be a bit wiser, and it may say old man instead of weak next time. You won't know his name unless he introduces himself, and he wont know yours. There is of-course a cap... a very observant person might simple see him as a wise old man, as not to create the con system which favored griefers pre 1.60 in daoc.

Some limitations would be placed on skills, for example, you wouldn't be able to practice the powers of opposite deities.
You would be able to do pretty much whatever you want - if fighting isn't your thing, and you want to live live as a simple tailor, then you can do so. Players would require some skills associated with their main craft.... ie carpenters should know some lumberjacking'ing skills, fighters should know how to repair their weapons and armor, etc
Skills are limited in the way you use them. Study loads of different arts, and you will never reach master in any, but study one, or maybe, 2, and you can become a master. If you don't use a skill, it starts decreasing slowly.... at an exponential rate. This only applies during playtime, as not to inconvenience casual players.

There are no safe areas - PvP is allowed everywhere. But each player has two reputation standings, one based on their race, and only visible to their race, and one for everyone else.
ie, as an elf, who killed lots of orcs, could gain the title protector of the ancients, because he has killed enemies of his people, but if he kills his own people, he will gain another title, maybe murderer or killer of innocents and so he would be shunned by his own people too.
This would encourage people of the same race to band together and form societies and towns.
Players would also be responsible for their own actions this way.

If a group of players have enough prestige, they can form an order... ie guild. They can then roam the lands, or settle down, protecting and maintaining a settlement. THey can then declare war on other Orders, for some proper big fights, or just small skirmishes.
If a group of players prove to be a nuisance, gang up on them, and let them suffer the wrath of being an outlaw, with kill on sight flags placed on them by Orders, settlements or deities.

Players would have to explore the land, since no map is available... each player has a parchment map, with a fog of war... as a new player, it's all dark.. you can trade maps with other players to learn of new places.

Old remnants still exist, so expect to explore wizard towers full of traps, old castle dungeons full of your worst nightmares, and fighting players in forests, on bridges, cities, in taverns, across barren wastelands and lush plains.

And expect religious wars as the Deities plot the downfall of each other... because i your Deity dies, then you'll have to find another, or find another power than will allow you to live after death.

 

[Easy]

My ideal MMORPG is one where the developers
listen to the paying customers in the first place

 

[Addlcove]

what brannor said, I wanna try that game to, I wanna be a hobit baker with an affiction to pibeweed <grin>

until that comes out, I´m looking forward to this

http://www.frontier1859.com

 

[old.linnet]

One that makes some allowances for casual playes (ie. allowing you to learn skills or do crafting without having to log in and stare at a green bar)

 

[Apathy]

Any game where I could explore houses and towns and cities and castles and so on...and go through chests of drawers and wardrobes and so on...that would be nice on top of any RPG ethic.

I want to be able to explore the little houses in Avalon City and find things. :'(

a.
*

 

[Brannor McThife]

On the matter of Caps...this comes up often...

Level should not be something you get by getting X xp. I play(ed) a MUD for years, called New Moon. You level was based on a formula of your primary, class specific skills, as well as your other general skills.

As a healer, I could learn to use different weapons, but only "pay XP" to train to a certain skill level. (up to 50, as opposed to 300 as a fighter). These are called soft caps. After that, you can take the skill way over that, VERY slowly, by making use of it.
For example, my little gnome healer, has 600/300 for healing. because that's all I do most of the time. I get TXP (Training XP) (5/10% increments) for every few times I use the skill, and I get XP (spendible) for how much I heal/damage people/creatures.

With individual skills requiring practise to become expert at, you get specific/special commands in those based on your skill level. So, eventually, you could, master many things, it'd just take you eons of playing, and I mean, eons. i.e. A figher would have to pay a LOT of XP to train his healing ability, and would only be able to get to a certain level...so he would be able to heal, but it would cost lots of mana and he'd be limited by how much he could heal.

Fixed softcaps and hardcaps. Have special NPCs that can aid with high level (beyond maximum softcap) as well as the ability for player grandmasters to be able to teach people skills.

-G

 

[Reverant Mezz]

just make a new game with the old uo pvp rules in goddamn it!

 

[plastic_angel]

Originally posted by Reverant Mezz
just make a new game with the old uo pvp rules in goddamn it!

I agree

 

[hercules-df]

one where u can run around nude + lurk in shadows, and get arrested for shitting on a guards foot.

 

[old.Filip]

daoc with collision check on chars .....

 

[Easy]

Originally posted by old.Filip
daoc with collision check on chars .....

There is a ground collision check already,
isn't that enough? ^_^

 

[Addlcove]

Originally posted by old.Filip
daoc with collision check on chars .....

inter-realm collision detect would be nice, would make shieldwalls mean something

 

[Rubric]

I think UO sounds like my perfect MMORPG.

If only i had the time to start it.

 

[hercules-df]

gif collision!
proper roman/spartan type phalanxes (splepleled properly?) would be great in rvr, battles wouldent be over in <10sec and proper tactics could be applied. problem is trolls would never beable to move.

 

[the_peddler]

SilverHood: The earthquake idea is kinda the same background story that AC2 have. It sounds all good but after a month or two everything will be explored by powergamers and posted all over the internet. You could have random content generated for each server but comp generated content will never be as good as human made.

 

[Ekydus]

A Role Play Game where you actually ARE the character in a sense would be nice. For example, you control EVERYTHING about that charcter... breathing... walking... fighting the monsters... (Punch, kick and what-have-you...) Then when you get attacked you get an acute electric shock. However, if you die in the game, well the game will deliver an even larger electric shock, enough to knock one unconscious for some time.

 

[heilel]

I'd like to see the possibility of running mobss a well.
For example, say a Bandit camp.
Instead of them standing around like lemons, you could coordinate attacks with them in a limited area.
For example, getting them to assualt a near camp spot or station, also they would have the possibility of running away, instead of fighting to the death.

MAybe when you logon, instead of loading a character, you get a menu with Mob locations which you can control that are available.

That'd be cool and I'd love it being a player and seeing the mobs behaving more intelligently.


And a LOT more In game events happening, Maybe raids happening in teh core areas or something, I dunno.

 

[Falcon]

Issues that existed since beta, are still around today. Imagine making all the creatures you find in DAoC 5-10 levels higher, increasing their spells they can use against you, make them harder to hit

Sounds earily like 1.62

UO's skill system was much nicer, you basically had 700 skill points, there was a shed load of skills from swordsmanship to alchemy, to fishing, to cooking, to mining, to animal taming, to musicianship etc. and each skill scaled between 0 and 100% so you could have like 100% in 7 skills or you could be a jack of all trades master of none by having say, 50% in 14 skills or whatever, essentially be anything you wanted to be. Not only that but you could drop skills and train in others instead so your character could continuously evolve and not stop at lvl50. If a skill got nerf so what, you could just retrain to whatever else you wanted to. UO's problems however are that it's a very dated engine and that the servers are painfully laggy, at peak times in crowded areas it can take 5mins just to move your character 2 steps, then 5mins before moving again, repeat until you get out the crowded area and you have a 30min slideshow if you accidently were to port into a crowded area before you can get away from it again.

Other issues with UO were that I felt it was too single player based, if you were good enough (or an overpowered tamer ) there wasn't a single monster in game you couldn't kill solo, I wanted more epic encounters. However, at the other end of the scale in DAoC to kill anything worth killing you HAVE to have a group+ to kill it. I liked being able to kill big stuff alone through skill but I also longed for adventures with big forces too, I think DAoC's con system is too linear in that you either can kill it, or you can't kill it. I like "the you can kill it if you're good enough but can't if you suck" idea, with a few "you can't kill it without a large force of people" encounters also.

My ideal MMOG would be one like UO where there's thousands of things to do and your character is very modifiable but in an updated engine, with updated netcode and some epic encounters like the dragons in DAoC.

I think the biggest problem facing MMOG developers nowadays is that they need the content of games like UO but remembering that they have tight development schedules whereas UO has had 5 - 6 years to build all this content into their game + the development time before release. This is why we're only just seeing housing, roleplay clothing and such in DAoC, give DAoC 4 years and perhaps it will have the content of UO but it's a big task for any company to pull off from the start. They've tried to pull it off with SWG but the biggest problem there is that they've introduced too many features with too little testing = much bugs. For an MMOG to pull it off they need to introduce a vast and powerful scripting system server side and hire scripters to do the content whilst the coders can get on with the client/server code itself. The problem again is that this isn't an easy task to pull off when you have approximately 0.1seconds to process upto 3000 clients across your server cluster meaning extremely optimized code is needed, something dynamic scripting engines don't go incredibly well with.

Content is the key to a successful MMOG but at the same time, it can be it's downfall.

 

[scalpy]

As others have said, if the I.C.E. MERP can be ported over to the PC that would be perfect for me.

I spent many nights as a drunken, spotty teenager playing MERP with some mates & it was a great laugh.












We then all hit 16, discovered girls, music, motorbikes and cars and lost interest in D100 hehehe.

But seriously, I'm very much looking forward to what Turbine are going to do.

 

[deygos]

i like the idea in fable (some xbox game that isn't online AFAIK) whereby u age but also ur char develops based on the things you do

so if u go into the woods and chop trees all day u will train axe + get stronger arms etc

effectively lazy players will turn into fat ass momma trolls & those who go for a jog everyday will live longer

you'd have to eat, ie hunt for food etc. combine these ideas with things like food traders, a trading route that is cut off by evil players so a remote town is left to starve etc and the players who were born in that town have to do something about it....or their str goes down etc lol and they'd eventually die

would add a whole new dimension to begging aswell...if some skinny diseased bloke asked for cash you might think twice about it

players who do evil things will develop an evil look about their char (same goes for those who cba to shave)



a lot of mmorpgs lack interactivity & don't feel alive. daoc's towns/cities are full of empty buildings with nothing to do in them

would like to see dungeons being more interactive with traps and shit.

collision detection is a must (imagine how much that would change rvr - chanters would b fucked & have to completly changer their playstyle)

and yes kronus/afro i am ill and i am bunking work hahahaha

 

[Aileanara]

Being a big fan of D&D system I can't wait for more information on the new D&D MMORPG (I only quickly glanced at an article in a computer gaming mag the other day whilst browsing, but didn't buy it for some reason ).

The main advantage with a D&D system is the sheer ammount of D&D backgroud that can be uttalised to create the world + expansions.
The only thing that needs to be looked at in depth is the exp/level system which might not translate (directly) too well into a MMORPG because D&D is a more casual game (Imagines epic level characters running around after only a few days)

 

[hercules-df]

Id prefer some kind of online Highlander theme. dunno how ud combat all the beheadings tho, unless its generic mmorpg but instead of rvr its a huge head hunting world, proper 1 on 1 type fights, but youd need a proper sword combat system which hasent even got close to be being mad in a game yet, the closest is prolly Great Swordsman from the arcades or the barbarian - palace on the Amiga ( gotta love those red sonja samples) the Bushido blades games had promise but still are button mashing shit like SuperCombatEleetFighter Hyper J XTREME channel4 edition! 47 on the ps2.

 

[cadiva]

Find myself in agreement with Brannor here. MUDs are about the only online game where you have a real sense of 'living' your character.

I've bigged up Avalon-rpg MUD on these boards before and I think a couple of guys logged in and gave it a brief shot and didn't stay cos it was too complicated and their screens rolled by too fast

Text muds are the only games where what happens when you're offline has a real active effect on your character when you next log in.

The last time I logged into Avalon my guild (the one I'd been guildmistress off for over 1 RL year) had been razed by an invading army (led by a boatload of my RL mates come to that), all my coms (gold, metals, wood, silk, food items etc) stolen and my baby was apparently wandering around a neighbouring city.

I played Avalon for four years until the game owners appointed a total twat (in my opinion and to my great sadness) into one of the god positions and he immediately managed to alienate a vast number of the long established player base resulting in quite a few quitting the game.
I also got into a massive row with the said game owner and 'top god' - never a good idea to row with the guy with the delete command at his fingertips

Still, I don't regret a moment of my Avalon playing days, I've lived through real highs, lows and some just outright bizarre moments in between, I have made many RL friends from the game (most of who now play here in Camelot in me guild) and ultimately I met my husband through playing it.

Text MUDs are about as close as it gets to online AD&D gaming where someone else is controlling what can happen to you and in which your actions can also make a real difference to someone else's gaming career.

The day a graphic game can capture that intensity is the day the greatest MMORPG ever is created in my view.

Neverwinter Nights when you get a good DM on an actively DMed server can be good, but it still doesn't touch the adrenalin rush of logging into a game and wondering if you still have a house/guild/city left standing overnight.

Anyone interested check out their website at Avalon-RPG