Yob Culture -

[Bugz]

I was bored and in one of those 'do something about it' situations (even though I can do very little) so I sent the government this:

Dear reader,

Unsure where to put this concern, I placed it into the culture section. The best way to describe the concern would be the yob culture that exists in every town, everywhere. A culture that is expanding extremely fast and is becoming extremely violent. Why do you house the yobs that strive to break down the civilization you strive to improve? Why do I come across large numbers of youths, not much older than 15/16, drunk, high and verbally abusing members of the public? Why are you so lenient towards such behaviour? Don't get me wrong, I'm sure you don't like it and I'm sure you want to stop it, but for years on end I read crackdowns on yobbish behaviour, and yet, I only seem to watch it flourish in the regulations of today. As I walk past some of these yobs, I find myself felt small, insignificant and threatened. But that's just the general behaviour. Do I dare to step into the realms of verbal and physical abuse... Random attacks, assaults and other such acts.

My father is a Policeman. He joined the profession after just over ten years in the prison service. I'm sure he probably knows more about the situation than a lot of people. He constantly tells us of yobs he arrests, who find themselves with nothing more than warnings and anti-social order acts. The ones that go to a young offenders institute (another place my father did work) are out within weeks at best.

I feel lost within the world of today. The good people are the ones that get the short straw. The good people are the ones that pay for the damage that yobs inflict to our communities. The good people are losing faith in you because one of the most pressing issues to date is one that isn't being dealt with harshly enough. Of course, it's not just adults. At fifteen, I am aware of the world of politics and I know for sure that if someone offered to clean up yob culture once and for all, I would vote for them, every election, until the day I died.

I write this on a Saturday, one of the most active days for yob behaviour. Upon walking home from my girlfriends, I received verbal abuse, I came across a drunk girl (at the age of 13/14), I encountered a large group of yobs, entering a graveyard (where they had caused vandalism to gravestones) and I witnesses three young yobs (aged between 9 and 12) giving abuse to older children of the 'skater type.'

I've yet to be assaulted by a group of yobs, yet I hear of my mates being in that position themselves. But I know, that I WILL get assaulted one day by yobs. It is an extremely frightening aspect and every time I walk home from my girlfriends, or to meet a group of friends, I wonder if that day will be today. It's not just me either. It's thousands of people, children and adults, who live in fear of yobs.

My main question for you is: why won't you seriously crack down on these yobs? Why does it feel that every time I walk down a street path and engage yobbish behaviour, the government is always on the other side?

Yours sincerely,
<my name>


Now, my question is, do any of you feel the same? Do you hate this yob culture so much tht it stands on your primary list of concerns?

Discuss the yob culture (mainly for UK but foreigners can contribute too )

 

[DocWolfe]

the problem is that alot of them are second generation scum, and they've been brought up by parents that act exactly the same way.

Theres a park near me where they all hang out late at night drinking and smashing the bottles. Then during the week you see little kids playing among the broken glass.

The problem is its too late for them, we may as well just round them up gas them and start a new, because any kids they have will be just as obnoxious and shit like as their parents.

 

[Bugz]

the problem is that alot of them are second generation scum, and they've been brought up by parents that act exactly the same way.

Theres a park near me where they all hang out late at night drinking and smashing the bottles. Then during the week you see little kids playing among the broken glass.

The problem is its too late for them, we may as well just round them up gas them and start a new, because any kids they have will be just as obnoxious and shit like as their parents.

Unfortunately, your 100% right.

What adds to this equation is these yobs are often living in council-owned houses. Yet they are allowed to vacate their and become a living pain for nearby occupants.

If you kicked out all the trouble makers in council-owned houses in my town alone, 50% of the yobs would be homeless.

I know this doesn't entirely solve the problem but it just seems so daft they get so much for doing so much damage.

 

[Amildin]

Stop crying about it

 

[Bugz]

Stop crying about it

Get off my thread if you have nothing constructive to say.

May I ask that anyone wanting to have a joke (or attempting a joke in Amildin's case) stay off this thread.

This is a serious thread.

 

[Lamp]

Yep, totally agree. These yobs and their scumbag "first generation" parents are bringing this country down sub-gutter level.

 

[Everz]

gg?

 

[Himse]

Unfortunately, your 100% right.

What adds to this equation is these yobs are often living in council-owned houses. Yet they are allowed to vacate their and become a living pain for nearby occupants.

If you kicked out all the trouble makers in council-owned houses in my town alone, 50% of the yobs would be homeless.

I know this doesn't entirely solve the problem but it just seems so daft they get so much for doing so much damage.

i thought this was you chavm8r :<

 

[Chronictank]

Get off my thread if you have nothing constructive to say.

May I ask that anyone wanting to have a joke (or attempting a joke in Amildin's case) stay off this thread.

This is a serious thread.

it's a perfectly valid opinion on the matter, just because its not the same as yours doesnt make it any less so. Perhaps in not so many words he(?) as saying if people actually did something rather than whining about it then something would get done. This is not my pov so dont bother quoting me on it.

Personally i think it's VERY naive of you to assume it will all stop because you hand out prison sentenses (sp?). Why? because
a) the prison system is already at its limit
b) they arent scared of prison, because in this country prison is more of a holiday home than something to be feared.

Personally i think they should bring back manual labour in prisons, maybe introduce a system where the prison where the more you work the more benefits you recieve.
Example: If you work alot you get to watch tv for example, and use the gym etc etc. If you dont, you are stopped these privilages.
Also as a added incentive prisoners are paid for their efforts, this works by making them earn their keep and means they have a little something to get them started when they leave rather than dropping them in the deep end in some council house where they are in all likelyhood to go back to theiving.
So anything above their upkeep they get to keep when they leave.

Upsides:
-Prisoners pay for themselves rather than the taxpayer footing the bill (or at least reduce the ammount of money required to keep them)
-Prisoners are given the opertunity to get work experience in a real job making them more employable in low trust jobs such as a builder
-Prisoners who support a family can have their pay docked with any support payments, rather the the bill once again going to the tax payer

Downsides:
-Higher upkeep costs,e.g staff, transport etc etc
-Not all prisoners may be able to work (old, disabled etc etc) so will get a free ride/not anyway


This way prisoners will have to earn their keep reducing the cost of keeping them, as well as making going to prison more than just idling around all day


Just my 2 cents

 

[tris-]

The problem is its too late for them, we may as well just round them up gas them and start a new, because any kids they have will be just as obnoxious and shit like as their parents.

i like your way of thinking. BUT, how about this. some stupid fucking group wants to up the limit of legal responsiblity from 10 to 14. who the fuck are these people that want to do this? i was happy today when i noticed, not far from my home, 2 policemen approach about 15 youths, some with dogs. now i know the policeman probably couldnt do shit. obvioiusly its wrong to beat the shit out of young scum bags or even just warn them wanker but hell i was happy just to see them.

if some of them came near my house, id have no problem with going out with .22 and my wakizashi, maybe slashing a few stomachs and shooting a couple. although, i bet some "rights for scum bags" mother fuckers here will say "nooo,. give them a chance and send them to a special home so they can improve". fuck em, once a chave always a chav. who disagrees, and why exactly?
one of my cars had a window smashed for no reason. there was nothing visible, or hidden, worth stealing. yet they smash it. do you seriously think i should care for them damn well fare? id sooner see their benefits stopped and they all starve to death in their borded up houses. we let chavs live, they bread more chavs. then we got 2nd gen chavs. then the 12 yr old shit bag bitch gets pregnant becuase she cant keep her fanny in her pants. and ooh look, we got 3rd gen chavs. and that bitch lives off benefits, because shes stupid enough to have a kid that young and she plain old cant be fucked to get a job. then her chav off spring grows up to rob grannies carrying a bag of chips and breaks into houses.

why the hell does anyone defend these people? it really makes me pissed off that anyone even cares about these people enough to WANT to support them. there was a point where i didnt want my pay rise, just on principle that i could pay less tax without it. knowing those shit bags wernt getting anymore of my money. thankfully im out of that job, and now on 4.10 an hour. yes its shit, but guess what? its less money i give to them, which makes me vert happy indeed

Personally i think it's VERY naive of you to assume it will all stop because you hand out prison sentenses (sp?). Why? because
b) they arent scared of prison, because in this country prison is more of a holiday home than something to be feared.

Personally i think they should bring back manual labour in prisons, maybe introduce a system where the prison where the more you work the more benefits you recieve.

that is exactly it. go to prison you get free meals, a tv if you ask nicely and fresh air! why do they get this? they commited a crime. they should be locked a way in a pitch black room, going insane and just enough nutrition to keep them alive to the very end. if i have to get fucked in the ass once just so i can have a free tv licence and a free box of "10 games in one" id do it. think of the money youd save!

"commit a crime. get a free board game, free food, a free home, fresh air and free tv. what are you waiting, just rob a granny!!!!".

and that is what its like. and the innocent bastards like us have to pay for it. and we also have to pay when they rob us, because our insurance goes up. i wonder why i even bother being a respectable member of society. afterall, i could goto prison. and you could pay for me to live...

Downsides:
-Not all prisoners may be able to work (old, disabled etc etc) so will get a free ride/not anyway

if they are so disabled how did they manage to commit a crime in the first place? who gives a shit if that scu bag down the road is in a wheel chair. give him a shovel and a spade and tell him to get those wheels moving. he commited the crime, not us. thats his fucking problem if his legs dont work.

 

[tris-]

btw bugz, your best of sending to the daily mail or some such paper and adress it "dear sir"

 

[Marc]

I spent part of my childhood on a council estate in St Helens and it was nothing like it is today. If I walked to the shop and encountered some kids I never got abused, just asked if I fancied a game of rugby with them. I cant understand how society has gone downhill so fast. Yes there were older kids standing around on street corners getting drunk but they werent d1ckheads with it. They moved along quietly if asked and always asked how my nan was etc.

I dont know how the government can stop it tbh. If it was down to me, id sterlise all the little chavs so they couldnt breed

 

[jocelynn]

Wow! So much hatred so early in the thread

I don't usually post on FH but this seems interesting so...

The good people are the ones that get the short straw

What you get instead is a sense of achievement in your life... a good job that will (possibly) make you feel self worth, a healthy lifestyle, better prospects for the future. Yob culture is a product of poverty, and it's easy to take what you have for granted.

You sound lucky enough to have a good upbringing, try to imagine that some people are growing up in many parts of the world without books, without the net or parents who are intellegent enough to educate and encourage there children to flourish. Poverty will always cause this sort of behavior- and it's (in a way) hereditary. I'm not talking about some far away country, I'm talking about the UK and Europe.

Before you send this you should think of some long term fixes also. Being more harsh with sentences for those who cause crime- yes.... but what about the next generation? Do you think people are really born with "chav genes"? I think this government has become too generous with hand outs and it's time for some tough love. Perhaps if they took away some of the trimmings they are giving this group of people and invested it in education and the community these people would have real tools (and not just cash thrown at them) to get themselves out of this situation.

I think they should bring back manual labour in prisons

Totally agree!

Anyway, I've got a hangover to attend to and need to go into work... have fun and don't take it too seriously

 

[Zegas]

It's the way the country is going, not much we can do about it now without a seriously right wing extreme solution like docwolfe said We're screwed mostly :<

 

[Lamp]

btw bugz, your best of sending to the daily mail or some such paper and adress it "dear sir"

And don't forget to sign off in classic Points of View "Angry, Portsmouth"

 

[tris-]

Do you think people are really born with "chav genes"?

i wouldnt say chav genes. more like having a 12 yr old mother, and her mother and father are also shit bags, is what causes the problem. then maybe you get the odd one out who gets 9 GCSEs and hes the only one on the streets whos done it. then it gets put in the paper and people say chavs arnt an issue and education really works.

so fuck if they get 9 GCSEs. im sure most people do but they dont get their own newspaper article. instead when they are walking home with their results, some chav jumps from behind a bush and smashes their face in.

 

[tamtap]

fucking liberal Politicaly correct brigade have fucked the country.

Take a look at the joke prisons have become. They got carpet in cells, they got TV, prison officers have to 'ask' before they enter cells. cons get paid, they dot half thier sentance if lucky.

imo:

1. you get a 2 year stretch you do 2 years. The PC whiners who say '50% of the time for good behavior' etc. I say if you so much as fart the wrong way in clink months start getting added ON minimum of 1 month per transgretion and they double each time. You misbehave in prision what you gonna be like outside.

2. Make prisons fucking horrible places. No electric for starters in the cells (excpet the bars ofc). Shit plain meals every day. No privileges. Hard labour for all inlcuding bitches. Chain gangs doing community work etc.

3. No prison time for any financial stuff whatsoever. fuck the banks if they borrow to paupers. As for councils locking up granny for not paying her council tax fuck them as well. Only a fucking coucil would lock someone up costing 500 quid a week for a 400 quid debt.

4. Get some respect back for officials. Remove all trafic police they are fucking useless parasites. Same goes for greed cameras. I want to see the pigs taking the yobs to the slammer not sitting in a 50k landcruiser harassing a.n.other motorist for doing 5mph to fast. The majority of people's experience with the pigs is negative as they are fucking useless at anything except motoring. Ever called one folling a burglary ?


5. Councils. The fucktards who sit on these making up all the rules the rest of us have to follow I wouldnt trust to wipe my arse. Take a look at your local coucil webbie and find out what their daytime job is. 99% failures who are in it for the power trip on planning committes and such.

6. Execute, publically, any trafic warden.

7. More community service stuff for minor offences. Crims absolutley fucking hate wearing orange suits and clearing up shit on the grassverges in their spare time. Cheaper than prison as well.

8. Drugs. They tell us this is what fules 60%+ of crime. So give it to the junkies free. Let them goto the local clinic and shoot the fucktards so fuill of crack their eyeballs pop. I coudlnt give a rats ass if these smackheads are perma smoked as long as they not pinching my dvd. Im sure 1 pigs salary would buy a loads of coke/crack etc . Repeat until they dead / comotose whichever. Bingo their goes the burglary rate.

9. National service. The army is in need of cannon fodder after all the wars we are in. Get the yobs lined up give them the uber shitty army equipment and let them yob it up in afghanistan.


Sure thers more but pubs open now.

Tam

 

[Bugz]

It seems alot of us have very strong views on the matter, mainly in terms of the prison service.

It's just so damn annoying that we're such a small community (in terms of the UK) that we can't really do anything.

 

[Hawkwind]

Bugz for PM - better than c*%t we got now!

 

[yaruar]

It seems alot of us have very strong views on the matter, mainly in terms of the prison service.

It's just so damn annoying that we're such a small community (in terms of the UK) that we can't really do anything.

And judging form most of the views expressed i'm happy that communities like thia have little or no influence.

Prejudiced, knee jerk NIMBYesque responses with little or no understanding of the issues or what they are talking about..... CBA to argue about it either as most people won't listen or understand.

 

[tris-]

CBA to argue about it either as most people won't listen or understand.

the only thing i wont understand is why you care about the welfare of such bastards.

if some chav and his fellow scum lickers set their dog on you, will you just accept it? will you lay on the floor let it savage you then ask them "excuse me, young men, just why did you do that? dont you know you can goto school instead and learn about history and science?!"

then take them home so finally they can get a wash and eat something that isnt a big mac with large fries?

Prejudiced, knee jerk NIMBYesque responses with little or no understanding of the issues or what they are talking about.....

ive lived around such people for 20 years. ive been harrased by them. had property damaged. had cars stolen, broken into and robbed. ive been assaulted by them. my family has been assaulted by them.

i was poor, just like them. but being poor doesnt mean you have to be a dick.

yes, my reactions must be knee jerk. and i really have no idea about what im saying. it doesnt matter than ive had my whole life to live around them and experience what they do :/

 

[yaruar]

yes, my reactions must be knee jerk. and i really have no idea about what im saying. it doesnt matter than ive had my whole life to live around them and experience what they do :/

SO why not try to unserstand why they act in the ways that they do and work towards making sure that things change in the log run for the better rather than just labeling them all scum and writing they all off, IMO this just makes the problem worse. When any section of society is alienated and continually told they are worthless it makes it even harder for them to be brought back into mainstream society....

 

[dub]

statistics tells us that harder punishment doesnt equal less crime , that means that other factors is of more or atleast of equal importance to the amount of criminality in a given society.

coupple that with the cost of confining people in jail and its obvious that you should focus your attention elsewhere.

this "strong man to clear out the riff-raff idea" is so last century

 

[tris-]

SO why not try to unserstand why they act in the ways that they do and work towards making sure that things change in the log run for the better rather than just labeling them all scum and writing they all off, IMO this just makes the problem worse. When any section of society is alienated and continually told they are worthless it makes it even harder for them to be brought back into mainstream society....

like ive said, ive lived around them for 20 years. the only motive i can see is that being a piece of crap you scraped off your shoe with another piece of crap is easier than going to work. also factor in that the victim is always more worse off than the crook. we can create the following formula -

((piece of crap + easy life)*n) + immunity from the law = shit bag

(note: n is the number of times you beat someone up)

as we can see, its much easier to be a chav. you have no respect for law, therfore you are immune to it. and therfore you are always better off than the victim. wtf is an ASBO going to do for some little shit that doesnt care? sure they goto prison, then its an even easier life for them.

you dont have to goto work because its easier to do one of the following -

a) rob someone
b) rob someones house
c) get benefits
d) rack up huge debts but not own anything. that way you dont lose out.
e) all of the above

because you arnt at work you obviously need something to do. so you steal little tommys BMX and ride around the streets and terrorise the general public.

now maybe its just me but i feel all of the above is a lot easier than getting up everyday for a shit wage in a shit job which then pays for scum bag no.128 to live.

but hell, i will do it anyway

 

[Mey]

You can't shame the shameless... Their scum, they don't care, they will keep doing what they do no matter what.

 

[Gotrag]

It's not always the up-bringing I know some horrible kids with some really nice down to earth parents alot of the time it is the people they hang about with.

When I was younger I might of gotton into all of these things you speak of if I was to keep my friends at the time, as that is the path they took and I would of took it with them If I didn't "ditch" them.

There are some people who are like that out of fear, if you walk down the road look differently then they do and listen to different music then they do the chance is there will be a confrontation but you don't see alot of people walking down the road with tracksuits and hats on get abuse from them.

There is really not alot anyone can do about this half of england would be in prison, I don't walk around in fear of them but I don't feel safe, haven't done for a long time, wasn't to long ago I got hit walking through tutton by a group of people, hasn't stopped me walking through Sutton or anything like that.

At the end of the day if something can be done to stop all this I will support it but I don't think alot can be done.

 

[tamtap]

statistics tells us that harder punishment doesnt equal less crime , that means that other factors is of more or atleast of equal importance to the amount of criminality in a given society.

coupple that with the cost of confining people in jail and its obvious that you should focus your attention elsewhere.

this "strong man to clear out the riff-raff idea" is so last century

says the 'pc' brigade.

Lets be gentle on the yobs cus that works. Yeah right.

Tam

 

[Overdriven]

Actually has a few talks with a few friends (Gotrag IRL and some other people I know over phone/mail) about this whole situation. Why do people behave how they do? What are the social influences? What are the entertainment influences? What causes the initial 'person->yob' change? Is it purely genetical?


Loads of questions can be asked about this, but everyone will try and say something different. I personally think it's more to do with how strict/lenient their parents are/were and who you generally hang around with... I've lived near council estates my whole life (Yes, all 18 years) - I've been beaten by them, been harassed by them, had my old house broken into and my dads old car stolen.

When I see them with their parents, they're all mouth. Their parents don't show enough 'strictness' (Screw you if you think hitting those sort of kids (as a parent) should be against the law) - If your parents didn't care about what you did as a child, you know you're not going to have any sort of 'repercussion' when you break the law, since you've not been disciplined in anyway. So it effects the law... If you do something bad as a child and get hit, you know not to do it ever again. If you don't get hit; what you do is classed as okay. So you instantly take that 'time' and remember it and think it counts for other things.

So yeah, I think it's primarily first generation issues - where they just don't care.


Now to the social part! - I've got friends from all sides (Chavs etc) and anyone I get to really know, I meet their parents after a while - (As Gotrag said, it's not 100% parents, but I think in most cases it is) - and usually, they're completely normal/chilled out.

Then I meet my friend's friends. Loud mouthed, all ways swearing, not giving a fuck about anyone else, walking around in groups who intend to mug people... If I speak to ONE of them, you know what they say? "Because my friends are doing it" - Social influences have to be the worst. If you don't do something when your friends do it, you'll be looked down at in today’s society (well, by them/other chavs) and won't be considered 'the same' so they get hassled for not following the crowd.

What can the government do to stop it? Nothing, not unless they become VERY liberal about the whole situation, and implement some serious laws against them. Everyone knows a ASBO means nothing now, if it did – more people would be concerned with it.

If you assault somebody as a teen – you should be trialled as an adult.


Not sure what else to say, so… Hope it made some sense

 

[Yeke]

I think a lot of todays problems with yobs etc is in part down too the lack of oportunities in this country and has been for as long as I can remember.

Sure you can blame the parents the police the courts or the CPS but what it boils down too imo is the fact that the UK is a fucking shit place too live and thats down too the governments of the last 20+ years.

Whats more annoying is that people know the problems but all they do is whine about it and all the polaticians just sit on their overpaid arses and ignore us, nothing will change in this county until the british public go radar and revolt

 

[tris-]

Sure you can blame the parents the police the courts or the CPS but what it boils down too imo is the fact that the UK is a fucking shit place too live and thats down too the governments of the last 20+ years.

and if it wasnt for the pieces of shit waste of sperm that live here then the UK would be one of the best places.

lack of opportunities you say? do you even live in the UK? there is opportunities everywhere. going to school is a good start...