/xpoff

Grotnob

Fledgling Freddie
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Oct 28, 2008
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154
As has probably already been alluded to in the balcony pull exploit thread, this particular exploit is kind of indicative of a wider issue in the game design. WAR is very much focused on T4, and anything leading up to that does seem to be a bit of an afterthought that the devs want to speed everyone through so that they can get to the endcrash..erm..game. We're not 6 months into official release, and already T3 levelling is being fast-tracked.

This may all seem well and good, however what these fast tracked characters are leaving in their wake is empty lower tier RvR zones where (on Hirn) its often not possible to get a full warband together to take a keep. I know it's possible, with co-ordination, to PvE down an undefended keep, legitimately, with as little as 1 group of 6, but the key word there is "undefended". Get a group of defenders in there, and you start needing a warband to stand a chance.

Eventually we're going to get to the stage where none of the regular players have characters under R11, or even R21, meaning T1 and T2 will be populated by casual players, alts of people on different servers, and the odd brand spanking new player (working on the pure assumption that new subscriptions are tailing off). Is this going to be enough to maintain a T1-3 playerbase capable of taking a keep, defended or otherwise?

I never really played DAoC beyond the trial period, but I'm told that there was a means of stopping your character gaining experience so that you didn't level out of a particular zone. Whilst this may introduce other issues, like "opted" 6v6 groups "booking" fights and bitching to high heaven if any passing random has gall enough to "add" on "their" fight, (which I'm reliably informed was a large factor in the decline of DAoC Europe,) but it would seem to be a possible viable solution to prevent low tiers drying up.
 

Zede

Part of the furniture
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Agree, I might even resub if I knew my t1 & t2 chars would not jump to the next tier with a few kills.

Im pretty damn sure EVERYONE who played Daoc had alts in thidranki. I used it to test out every class in every realm in daoc. I would love to have a permanent alt form Pheonix Gate. Just dont allow the socketing of purple gems to avoid twinking.
 

Roo Stercogburn

Resident Freddy
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Dec 22, 2003
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Based on a lot of experience in DAoC and WoW I think xp off would be an appalling addition to the game and effectively kill the lower tiers for people who are genuinely RvR'ing and doing scenarios while levelling up.

Not having this option prevents twinks and this is a good thing. People complain about xp'ing enough while levelling - making RvR and scenarios impossible for those levelling could kill off a lot of people's interest in levelling to arrive at the endgame.

People create twinks to get easy kills early on with minimal game-time effort. In WoW this made PvP'ing in Battlegrounds a no-go area while levelling, in DAoC similar. It utterly spoils the PvP experience for those that are there while getting to 40 and aren't so well equipped.

You have all the time in the world to gear up your toons at 40 and it doesn't take too long to get there. There is no need for this at the lower tiers.
 

Grotnob

Fledgling Freddie
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Oct 28, 2008
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154
I see your points, Roo, however, if in the near future there aren't that many players in T1-3, first time round or otherwise, (as is already starting to happen,) won't this adversely affect the new player experience just as much?

Also bear in mind that a low number of lower tier players isn't just affecting the RvR side of things; it's affecting whether or not parties can be put together for PQs, questing, City instances, Gunbad, etc.

You could argue that you could get a high level to come blend them for you, but that's really nowhere near as much fun, you don't get the XP from the kills, and hell, what if you don't know any?

I "grew up" on Orrud, so I know just how demoralising empty zones, RvR or PvE, can be.
 

Lubbock

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
Messages
478
Yup i can see that problem, i used Scenarios for levelling and fun, and with the XP off function it would mean that going to Scenarios would be out till i was level 10 or 11 because all lower levels would just get beat up by twinked, set groups of level 11s, so it would indeed kill of the levelling procedure.
If you dont believe me try doing Tier 4 scenarios, atm im trying to so these while levelling but all that i see in these are 6-8 levels 40 just pawning those lower than 40s, so no XP to get there.

So i vote no to prop /XPOFF.
I Vote yes to a level 40 only scenarios, and make the Tier 4 scenarios from 30-39 only.
Also nerf Roo <dont know why just thought i would finish my post with it>


As always the ramblings of a mad Dane disclaimer :)
 

Twoeye

Can't get enough of FH
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Feb 13, 2005
Messages
773
i c the point in what both Grot says....and also in what Roo and Lubbie says , but as a little add-on for it why not make it so when you reach rr10 (or 1 renown lower than your rank for ALL tiers , well at least up to tier3) the xp turns on automatic , what i'v noticed now since all the xp boost thingys is that you have problems with gaining enough rr to b able to use sertain armor/items (couse of to low rr and WAY to high rank) , mostly these "set" items are waaaay out of date when are able to use them , and it is kind of frustrating to have a full set of items/armor that you cant use couse your rr is to low .
And as Lubbie said at higher tiers you are soooooo dead when you show your self for those higher rank players , and imo then its not easy to gain that renown , but this is my pov ;)
 

GReaper

Part of the furniture
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I think /xpoff is a bit of a poor solution, if you allow it then people will level up level 11/21/31 characters and try to get them the best armour possible just to try dominate RvR areas. This is certainly not a good thing! Skilled players in decent armour turning their XP off isn't exactly friendly for new players if they get repeatedly killed.

Mythic went a bit over the top in T1-T3 by adding so much RvR area. Keep takes involve a lot of people coming together, something which lower tiers can't do. I'd personally would scrap the open RvR in T1-3 and just concentrate on scenarios.
 

klasa

Loyal Freddie
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Mar 3, 2005
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250
Or just havin one rvr area for t1-t3 so the people don't port to a zone with an empty keep but rather stay and fight.
 

Zede

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all very well and good, but as far as I can see, its impossible to twink in WAR - except for those +18 purple stat gems, which could be easily nerfed for low level chars.

Your experience with twinks is based on other games, its not the case with WAR.

I never twinked a low level char in daoc, unless you call spending 50g at a CM to get a basic armor set. And guess what, I had fun, if anyone else did twink, it didnt effect me.
 

dee777

Loyal Freddie
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Oct 6, 2004
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Getting to eleven is easy enough, so if you like to twink, do it for tier1. I agree with the "no twink" mindset presented in this post, so obviously I dislike "/xpoff". Not that it matters. ;P
 

Roo Stercogburn

Resident Freddy
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There is no reason to assume WAR would be miraculously different from DAoC and WoW regarding twinks.

50g on a CM is still twinking. It might not be the same level of twinking as other people do, but it is essentially still twinking - you're not turning up with the resources available to a raw char at the time.

I can't think of a way around this atm that would not involve severely changing the way WAR plays. As Grotnob points out, its sometimes tough to get enough people in different tiers to make scenarios and oRvR more populated.

One way might be to combine the scenarios for Tiers 1-3 between servers. Not Tier 4 as this affects zone pushing for the end game. This would help the low pop servers for people while levelling. This wouldn't help oRvR at those levels but I don't see a major problem with this. While levelling it was hard to get me out of scenarios I enjoyed them so much, despite being utterly gimped at the time.
 

Zede

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There is no reason to assume WAR would be miraculously different from DAoC and WoW regarding twinks.

50g on a CM is still twinking. It might not be the same level of twinking as other people do, but it is essentially still twinking - you're not turning up with the resources available to a raw char at the time.

I can't think of a way around this atm that would not involve severely changing the way WAR plays. As Grotnob points out, its sometimes tough to get enough people in different tiers to make scenarios and oRvR more populated.

One way might be to combine the scenarios for Tiers 1-3 between servers. Not Tier 4 as this affects zone pushing for the end game. This would help the low pop servers for people while levelling. This wouldn't help oRvR at those levels but I don't see a major problem with this. While levelling it was hard to get me out of scenarios I enjoyed them so much, despite being utterly gimped at the time.

In WAR especially now with the orvr rewards, even the newest of new player has the same gear as everyone else - apart from the gems issue, i cannot see any other way to twink a t1 or t2 char.
 

Roo Stercogburn

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In WAR especially now with the orvr rewards, even the newest of new player has the same gear as everyone else - apart from the gems issue, i cannot see any other way to twink a t1 or t2 char.

That statement is extremely innacurate.

Someone who levels up via scenarios can expect maybe 3-4 green drops by lvl10 from scenarios - I have a lvl11 archmage squirreled away on another server, been having some light relief with this and its been interesting to track his gear/progress. Most of the drops were not usable until lvl9. Some gear slots are not filled in yet.

A few quests, the rest scenarios. Nothing fantastic gear-wise. Certainly nothing that would compete with a fully twinked and equipped Lvl11 toon with talismans.

Because this is on another server, there has been no chance of sending him stuff from a higher level char.

On Karak-Hirn however, I've been able to send my zealot loads of stuff that he can use while levelling as well as talismans and such.

The gear difference even in T1 is *very* noticable.

The journey to T4 in WAR is pretty short if you focus on 1 char for the duration. I did it on a Magus pre-balancing as the most gimped toon in the game. Satisfaction element aside, this proves to me that its not hard, doesn't take long and combined with the points I've previously made on this thread shows to my satisfaction that there is no place in WAR for twinking.
 

Zede

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That statement is extremely innacurate.

Someone who levels up via scenarios can expect maybe 3-4 green drops by lvl10 from scenarios - I have a lvl11 archmage squirreled away on another server, been having some light relief with this and its been interesting to track his gear/progress. Most of the drops were not usable until lvl9. Some gear slots are not filled in yet.

A few quests, the rest scenarios. Nothing fantastic gear-wise. Certainly nothing that would compete with a fully twinked and equipped Lvl11 toon with talismans.

Because this is on another server, there has been no chance of sending him stuff from a higher level char.

On Karak-Hirn however, I've been able to send my zealot loads of stuff that he can use while levelling as well as talismans and such.

The gear difference even in T1 is *very* noticable.

The journey to T4 in WAR is pretty short if you focus on 1 char for the duration. I did it on a Magus pre-balancing as the most gimped toon in the game. Satisfaction element aside, this proves to me that its not hard, doesn't take long and combined with the points I've previously made on this thread shows to my satisfaction that there is no place in WAR for twinking.

Sorry, thats absolute cobblers.

believe me, i have tried to twink t1 chars, its just not possible in the way you are suggesting.

Forget everything about scenarios, using that as a yardstick is wrong and you know it, talk about trying to give a biased opinion !

The new Orvr rewards + t1 armor set, PQ rewards, are available to EVERYONE, and you dont need a single copper to get the lot. I sat on AH for hours every day with 400g in my pocket, desperately trying to buy anything I could use for my BW & AM i had in t1. every level they got I would log my alt on and check AH, every day for 3 weeks, at different hours.

I managed to get 1 level 9 blue cloak for 10g with good stats before i got to L11. A got a few green items, spending no more than 10g, you know the type, you look for something & get 20 hits of the samething all at the same price. cheap & easy to buy ( as a new player) these greens by simply selling the greens you cannot use on AH, its rather easy you know !

As I knew I was not going to re-sub at the mo, i spent a load of dosh on those +9 to wounds talismans. That, and to be perfectly honest nothing else make a big difference at all. Getting an extra 700 hp means you can withstand burst dps from any class.

As stated earlier just remove the ability to socket anything above +2 talismans in t1 and it would not be a problem at all to have /xpoff
 

Cadelin

Resident Freddy
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Feb 18, 2004
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Why not make it so that you can ONLY do /xpoff at 10, 20 30 etc. That way you can't max out your char and those that are leveling through will have a period where they have an advantage over the twinks.
 

Faeldawn

Fledgling Freddie
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Dec 27, 2003
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916
Agree with Roo, twinks are terribly unappealing to new players and screw over level capped rvr turning it into an epeen fest...yuk.

I do have a suggestion:

Allow players who hit the level cap the ability to de-level. Example, i hit 32 in T3 but i desperately want to get back in T3. Give me an option to de-level to 21/21 at a cost in gold. At 21 i would obviously not be able to wear my higher level kit so i'd need to get hold of some lower level gear, probably from the city renown dude from T2.

Now im set to begin T3 again but with none of the advantages a "twink" would have, i'd be on a par with everyone else and have to level 21-31 again like everyone else.
 

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