Wyleia

[Generic Poster]

hmmmmmm

Originally posted by Trippy
Generic Poster: to begin with, let me point out how very strange it is for you to make assumptions about the course of events using fragments of information pieced together from within this thread, and then to comment upon your perceived scenario. I imagine you would say that by having this thread here it invites such speculation - I can only say that I didn't begin or want this thread, and wonder why someone not involved would feel the need to comment.

Trippy: It's a pleasure to meet you too.

Might I take a moment to introduce you to these forums. Threads like these are quite common here. Incidents like the one in question are also common, fortunately not all of them are discussed.

Most of the specifics have been mentioned, all that remains is the general shambles that is an Albion Keep Raid(tm). By adding these together, I believe my perception of the event to be quite accurate, thank you.

I will comment because this thread was created and nurtured by both parties; because this is a public forum; because I play in the same realm; and lastly but certainly not the least, to amuse myself.

Originally posted by Trippy
I didn't see anyone "suiciding on the Mids".

The defending Mids played just too well and fought too ferociously for us to oust them.

Same difference.

Originally posted by Trippy
I admitted that Pazuzu was spamming a CG? I certainly did not...

I accept Pazuzu may not have abused a cg, I only have so much information to work with. However by your comment:

in reference to his earlier calls to "zerg the lord room" over the very same channel

One assumes he called for the 'zerg' a number of times, which is always annoying and labelled 'spam' by those who detest idiots.

Originally posted by Trippy
And if running into a keep past a group of dormant Albions seemingly concentrating on making chatgroups rather than fighting and informing them over the /broadcast channel, the one channel everyone present was able to see, that they should zerg towards the Lord room is not informing them of our intentions.....

With this statement, you display your lack of knowledge, or willingness to teamplay. For the purpose of this discussion, I will consider you an RvR amatuer, the former. You should thank me, because you would not like what I have to say about the latter group.

You say 'Dormant' Albions making chatgroups. Tell me, has your experience of RvR extended beyond Thidranki? Ah, maybe you're an "Emain zerg" man. Tell me this, were those Albions making a chatgroup for some late-night cyber? shit, if that's the case get me in there!!!

More then likely they were coordinating their efforts, no? And you laugh at this?
You are either a fool, ignorant, or a complete RvR newbie. Take your pick.

You say your group ran past the Albs and into the keep, one assumes you came from elsewhere.. perhaps CS after having /released from your previous "ZERG!!". While in CS, did you notice the lack of Renaris' /broadcast?

You know this one don't you... oh yes, I can hear your mind churning away... the /broadcast command in Renaris does not send the message to half of Albion! Well done.

When you group was running back from CS, you would have noticed other Albs on their way back also, no? and there were some behind them, and others releasing as you moved.

What benefit does /b have over a cg?

Please, tell me why it's a waste of time to set up a chat-group and ask people not to suicide... or as you put it, fight against organised mids who play better.

You don't have a clue, I don't give a fuck how many RPs you have or have many zergs you've ran in. You've shown yourself to be completely ignorant of organised efforts.

Let me remind you what happend:

-----------------------

- Foul midgardians invade Renaris, hours pass, before the first efforts to retake the keep begin.

- The first gate is broken down, with more Albions arriving by the minute. A cg has already been set up and is building all the time.

- Some idiot begins shouting "OMG ZERG TEH NOOB MIDDIEZ!!@!!!"

- Second gate is about to fall and the invaders retreat to the Lord's chamber.

- Gates drop, Albs zerg the Mids without much sense between them and die. They are ress'd, they zerg, they die. They are ress'd, they zerg, they die.... etc

- Some idiot begins shouting "OMG WTF WTF ZERG TEH NOOB MIDDIEZ!!@!!! WTF"

- Those in the cg who are attempting to control the situation ask everyone not to zerg, because it's clearly not working.

- Some idiot begins shouting "OMG WTF WTF ZERG TEH NOOB MIDDIEZ!!@!!! WTF"

- Wyleia's group feel they are ready to zerg, they see Albs grouping below the keep and think "wtf are these pansies doing, having a picnic!? LOL a cg!!! WTF is that about. C'mon ZRRRRRRRGGGGG OMG! ZRRRRRGGGG!!!"

- Some idiot begins shouting "OMG WTF WTF ZERG TEH NOOB MIDDIEZ!!@!!! WTF"

- Albs see random-idiot #2371 spamming ZERG and ignore it yet again, except Wyleia /broadcasts "I have them Mezzed". So everyone outside the keep jumps into action and runs into Lord room.

- Some idiot begins shouting "OMG I R TEH UBER! PHEEER MEH"

-----------------------

Originally posted by Trippy
So how did we contribute to the organisation? Well I'd say making the first vital charge into the enemy, pushing them back to the Lord room and mezzing all the survivors there in effect thrust organisation onto the procrastinators outside. I'm sorry, but everyone at a siege being part of a CG does not make it by default organised. Having a plan of action, and carrying it out successfully, including calling in the groups daydreaming outside to help administer the killing blow at the correct moment certainly does suggest organisation.

Again, you show a complete lack of understanding of common RvR mechanics.

You did not push the mids back into the Lord room, they went there as the second door was about to fall... as any defender with sense does.

Having everyone, or at least group-coordinators in a cg is the first step towards organisation.

Tell me, how the hell will you announce your plan of action, without the appropriate means to communicate it? Oh yes, you will use the local /broadcast which many people will be out of range of and which is being spammed by idiots who shout: "OMG OMG OMG ZERG MEH WTF!"

If it wasn't for groups "daydreaming" outside, your killing blow would never get anywhere near the target. How stupid are you, that you cannot understand the force built outside the keep will be used for the final push. Would you rather have them all suiciding on the enemy, one by one?

You are contradicting yourself heavily, by accepting you need a strong force, but also by abusing them. Again, I am at a loss for words at your complete and utter ignorance.

Originally posted by Trippy
The people who had "managed to unite the albions" had I think managed to drum up less than 2 FG and were dithering outside the keep when the battle was very much there to be won. They had "managed to unite" half the Albions at the keep, over the course of perhaps half an hour. Hardly an achievement to be proud of.

Are you telling me... no really, you're telling me it took thirty minutes from the doors going down, to the keep being taken?
This with one group of Mids at the lord, and perhaps 4 groups of Albs attacking?

You've got to be bullshiting me. If not, thank those who finally calmed everyone down and gathered them outside for a coordinated attack. If they didn't, this fiasco would have gone on all night. Do you understand?

Originally posted by Trippy
And I'm sorry, but a lack of communication and co-ordination was not the problem here.

<literally laughs out loud>


Trippy, I will not have my time wasted, or my integrity questioned by one as ignorant as you. I recommend you resign from the emain zerg, you will not learn much there. Spend some time taking and defending keeps. Learn the importance of chat-groups and command. Understand why idots spamming during raids annoys people. Learn to work together with multiple groups.

The experiance you gain will help you take keeps in less then 30minutes of the gates going down.

 

[old.mattshanes]

Let me tell you this,i was fighting in that tower and i only saw most amount 3-5 people go in lord room,ok the remaining got killed because they was in tower and the last remaining.I didn't go in myself as i was lagging enough as it was i fought in the tower and the mids fought well back.

Most times people were being shot by the lord when they were standing in the tower and dying mainly because of that.

 

[Generic Poster]

Mat, restructure your post and this time, make sure you have a point.

 

[old.mattshanes]

At the end of day everyone who took part did well although we died a lot we was expecting it,after all you win some you lose some.

Point being,the lord room was not zerged at all hardly, only a few went inside it i know i was fighting nearby.With guards shooting through walls aswell as the lord it caused many problems.

 

[Generic Poster]

So you were fighting guards, while others were running into the Lord room and trying to kill the mids with the Lord shooting them down. Other albs were being cut down be archers, before they even reach the tower... is this what you call doing 'well'?

 

[old.mattshanes]

As i said only a few went into lord room,others were mainly together mids didn't come to have a game of cards in the lord room,people should realise attacking the lord room will always be hard no matter what.

 

[old.Jessica]

Grow Up

It's been about 6 months since I've deemed it remotly nessesary to post something other than a narrative story onto these *cough* 'offical' forums.

I am thoughly sick to death of the constant bickering, flaming, elitism, jealous, frustration and stupididity that I read on these boards. But, I keep coming back for more just to make me aware of who's who, and for the entertaining stuff I find regularly in the 'off topic' section.

However, with regards to the whole content of this thread...
The issue underlying this goes deeper than is portrayed in this thread. The issue is simply 'individulaism'. Albion as a whole cares too much about it's individual people and not enough about the greater picture.

First, I'd like to thank all those that turned out to retake Renaris. Well done! Doesn't happen often enough. But for the love of killing mids, don't start a fight amongst yourselves after the battle. Especially one that was (eventually) a victiory.

Second, sit back and look at the tactics used. How many times do you EVER see a Sorc , with MoC rush to the Lord Room and mezz the whole lot? Doesn't happen often. Do they die normally? yes... are there so few of them... yes.... Do they ever get a cleric ghealing from saftey to keep them alive? No....
T30 spends MUCH of it's time working teamplay, especially with regards to taking and defending keeps. The 2 FG's of T30 that turned up were all team players. Ever one of them knew what their job was and they did it. Keep the Sorc alive until the LRoom is mezzed (got to have a cleric that knows when and where to gheal), in this case Knudden). The rest of them were waiting slightly below ready for the call to go in and kill targets sensibly, one by one.

Alb doesn't have that many sorcs, and now with the massive nerfing of cleric pbaoe mezz, it's poor radius, and not to mention no cleric to support the cleric mezzing with heals... work it out.

So, Turmaber and co... you were right to wait about outside or whatever you were doing because you didn't have people with the skills to do a successful zerg. (Or you would have done it already)

Love that Rumble was their with GTAOE.. It's highly dangerous tho. GT works nice for allowing a mezzer to get into the room with most of the casters inturrupted, but as Wyl pointed out, a single GTer isn't going to kill everything up their, and WILL agro the lord. With coordination from a Sorc, the GT stops, the mezzing starts and then every enemy up their dies once the heavy hitters arrive. And... according to both Rumble and Wyl, they were coordinating with each other.

Two people there making ALL the difference. So next time, listen to them. Grow the idea that in Albion there are specific classes with DO change the tactics you use, just by them being there. (Oh, wait, damn. that's that whole -teamwork- monster showing it's head again..)

So adust your attitude, look at what's happening. Learn who's who, see what they can do, and what they are doing. What use is a Sorc if he/she is sitting in the courtyard. What use is a cleric when he/she is trying to smite stuff, what use is a gter when he's breaking mezzes, what use is a "tank" hitting something on his own compared to 2 or more tanks hitting on the same target.

Lose the stupid 'I can solo xxx' attitude and go for 'the group I'm in just killed 2FG's of mids/hibs becuase we rock when we work together.'

And, yes, forming a chatgroup is all well and good. It shows promise. But remember that you have to make quick, good, descisions to actually get things done. Sometimes things go wrong, stop to think about what went wrong and what you could do to help prevent it happening again, try it again a different way until you find stuff that works. Then perfect it.

Finally, for the Napolian stuff. That was funny. Just be thankful it was Renaris and not Waterloo. It's called victory celebrating. Next time after you watch a football match or something and start crying '2 - 0, 2 - 0', get a tape recorder and play it back to yourself. Yes, you'll sound like a tosser too. But, at the time, it seemed like a good idea. Much like drinking 10 pints of beer and a kebab. Seems like a good idea at the time, probably we know better, but we do it anyway. If you can't take understand the simple fact some people like to go 'Horray! We Won!' then.... even if it does come out as 'I am Napoleon!'. Obviously Paz isn't English and his English tutor was taking the piss.

Enough with the pointless childish behaviour already. Play the game. Work it out. If you lose all the time, you're doing something wrong. And don't try and blame someone else 'like a cleric - you didn't heal', 'like a sorc - you didn't mezz'.

Anyway, I now call on Gombur to come hug everyone. It seems we need more Gomber's about the place.

 

[old.mattshanes]

Turamber has gone quiet another thing is that everyone who came didn't port to emain like they didn't care like other albs.

 

[wyleia]

lol ok i get it, generic poster guy defnitely was not there as most of his facts are wrong.. can we rename this post to the "My facts are wrong but i will post them on barrysworld anyways" Guess that almost is the title since my name is the title and ive yet to see what exactly i did to deserve a titled post here Although I am flattered Turamber that you thought of me first, even considering I said nothing inflammatory at that keep raid, you just imagine things I guess.

And yes it took over 30min from when doors went down to when we took the keep. I was able to use my 30min RA twice in that time. And we followed the plan of GTAOE the first time, the plan of the 'command chatgroup' that existed i guess that no one was in.. I just heard rumble /broad that he was gonna do it.. but wtf good does it do if hes gtaoeing and no one is charging? is he suppose to wipe the entire lord room by himself?

So the next run we had a plan, i announced it on broad and cleared it with rumble and followed through on it. We were 2fg of t30 there, so i knew i had enough support to take that room (ie get people to charge on my say so when the room was cc-ed)and no I didnt wanna sit there and be eaten by archers again due to another GTAOE attack that wouldnt work well with only one wizzie..

T30 was the first group on the scene at Renaris and we had a cg from the two keeps we had just helped take, Eras and Beno, so that was the cg I was in and the cg I was keeping track of... Heck we did have 16 or so ppl in it, more when we got a few back over from emain when Renaris wasnt as easy as we thought it would be. (not zerging lord room while gtaoe is going on is stupid.. thats the pt of gtaoe, interrupt casters so we can GET into the lord room and kill them).

End of Story for me at least, since I really wanst much in this story to begin with.... (geez last time i aoemezz a lord room, i get some bogus flame for it ffs.. mids and hibs you can thank Turamber for the lack of me mezzing u in lord room now). And I always thought Guardians of Power were out there for the realm, but with this attitude now I see you guys differently. Random flames against innocent people who just go do their job. Sure flame Pazuzu and Tripp for cracking bad jokes that obviously offended one or two of you, but to flame like this over bad jokes is a bit much guys dont u think?


Wyleia Mythweaver
50th Sorc of The 30
http://www.the30.org.uk

 

[old.mattshanes]

I am still trying to work out what wyleia did wrong? better keep away from renaris i sense turamber setting security cameras up there

 

[Danya]

*sigh* I'm not sure I can really be bothered to sift through this thread and reply properly, but here goes.

Tripp, I'm wondering if you were at the same keep. Your version of events is completely new to me. You state that there were 2 charges. That is not true, there were a lot of charges by a lot of people. Needless to say they all failed. As for knowing Pazuzu's comments were a joke, given his previous comments, it wouldn't have surprised me in the least if he was deadly serious. Your comments about procrastination and the like of people outside shows your utter inexperience of keep raiding and lack of any semblance of ability to play as part of a team. As I said there were a lot of charges and a lot of people killed. 2 shamens AE dotting combined with nicodemus pbaeing means without some way to stop them just charging in blindy would not work. Hence calls for people to hold outside until a suitable person to interrupt was there. At the time Wyleia charged in most people at the keep had no idea she was inside at all, rumble was not at the keep at the time having suffered an ld. So as far as we knew there was no one to interrupt the casters. Charging in would have been suicide, clearly you lack the knowledge of charging into a defended lord room to see this is so.

Wyleia:

And yes it took over 30min from when doors went down to when we took the keep. I was able to use my 30min RA twice in that time. And we followed the plan of GTAOE the first time, the plan of the 'command chatgroup' that existed i guess that no one was in.. I just heard rumble /broad that he was gonna do it.. but wtf good does it do if hes gtaoeing and no one is charging? is he suppose to wipe the entire lord room by himself?

you say no one charged when rumble was gtaeing, they did charge. And got wiped out by the pbae from nico. The problem there was people got over eager and charged before rumble had a chance to suppress the lord room.
You also said in your first post that you were not communicating with rumble, and yet in your latest post you say that you and rumble were working together. Which was it, you seem unclear as to the events of the evening.
The reason you were attacking is not because of direct comments like tripp and pazuzu, but because of your supercilious attitude when dealing with your realm-mates. You may not have been spamming zerg (and yes pazuzu was spamming it, unless you don't call repatedly saying the same thing in /broad and /yell spam). But your attitude when dealing with others certainly leaves a lot to be desired.

As for the chatgroup. We were not sat outside forming it, it was already formed. The reason for using the cg not broadcast was because a number of people were not at the keep yet, and hence any plan discussed in broad would not be known to them. Also a lot of people were resting outside the keep and therefore outside of broad range since it only extends about 10 feet from the walls. It was pure luck that most of us were right by the gate when wyleia mezzed the lord room, had we been 10 feet further down the slope very few would have heard.

In short, the real issue here was not wyleia's actions, which I don't believe were every questioned, but the utter lack of any communication and teamworking skills by the members of T30 present. Couple that with an attitude of just doing what you want and then patronising people for not knowing what is going on and therefore not working as you expect and is it any wonder people find you annoying and start posts on BW to flame you?

 

[Lanfaer]

Originally posted by Trippy
Shall we close this subject now, before any watching Hibs and Mids die of laughter at the bickering over what was a simple keep retake until you dragged it all over these boards?

We already are Trippy

So a few made a mistake and/or used a sense of humor that not all understood, big deal since you took OUR keep from us again, learn from your mistakes instead of starting a riot here.


Well .. on the other hand ... keep on bickering .. makes it easier for us mids to hold our keeps along the excal road :wub:

 

[Sarum TheBlack]

Originally posted by wyleia
And I always thought Guardians of Power were out there for the realm, but with this attitude now I see you guys differently. Random flames against innocent people who just go do their job. Sure flame Pazuzu and Tripp for cracking bad jokes that obviously offended one or two of you, but to flame like this over bad jokes is a bit much guys dont u think?

Oh, we are out there for the realm, Tur just has an anger management problem . We turn out 2fgs to keep raids on a regular basis, despite our relatively small size compared to the likes of SotL, LoE and T-30 (LoE and T-30 are twice as big as GoP) But that's not really the issue here.

I'd logged for the night by the time all this happened, but what seems to have happened is Cas/Danyan (and possibly a few others) were trying to organise an alternative to the zerg the lord->die cycle that we'd all spent the previous 30 mins in, a T-30 group ignored this (or didn't realise), and went and mez'd the lot of them (and well played for getting the mez off, regardless of if you think they should have been up there in the first place, it was a move that ultimately lead to the fall of the keep.) Everyone then charged up and the keep fell. T-30 did a victory jig, which the GoP present thought discredited the work they (and others) had been doing at the raid (whether it was intended that way or not, it was interpreted like it), things got a little heated and everyone said things they probably shouldn't have. Unfortunately it's not really that unusual (different keeps, different people involved, but the same story, Albs (or people in general I think) seem to have a great talent for falling out with each other even when we win) and I'd prefer not to have the entire guild characterised based on this flame fest, the posting of which Tur no doubt now realises was an error of judgement (hence his withdrawal from the thread... or perhaps he was told to... either way ). This shouldn't be about GoP Vs T-30, we're supposed to be on the same side, and as two of the most powerful guilds in Albion, we should really work harder at getting along.

 

[Jaas Mallai]

Oh dear, what a sorry state of affairs.

I haven't been online the past couple of days due to lag spikes making the game unplayable for me.

Congratulations to all there for the retake of Renaris (said without a hint of irony, no really ).

As I wasn't there, it makes it difficult for me to assess my Guilds actions. Turamber gets angry sometimes, this I know, he does it because he cares (it true I tell you!).

It would seem that if T30 were in the command chat, they could have told everyone of there tactic and everyone would have been happy. As it seems to have turned out they weren't ,so their brilliant tactic wasn't disseminated to everyone else.

In my opinion (for what its worth) any tactic is almost worthless without communication.

Now to answer some of the specific points in the thread:

The issue underlying this goes deeper than is portrayed in this thread. The issue is simply 'individulaism'. Albion as a whole cares too much about it's individual people and not enough about the greater picture.

Actually I don't agree, the underlying issue is a lack of communication between guilds. Or to use your parlance 'Guildism'.

T30 spends MUCH of it's time working teamplay, especially with regards to taking and defending keeps. The 2 FG's of T30 that turned up were all team players. Ever one of them knew what their job was and they did it. Keep the Sorc alive until the LRoom is mezzed (got to have a cleric that knows when and where to gheal), in this case Knudden). The rest of them were waiting slightly below ready for the call to go in and kill targets sensibly, one by one.

Team players? Is this the T30 team, or the keep retake team? An important distinction in my opinion. I am not doubting that you know what you are doing at all, just wondering if you see that peoples frustrations are borne out of not knowing what people are doing.

I always thought Guardians of Power were out there for the realm, but with this attitude now I see you guys differently.

Care to retract this? Because all I see in this thread is people who are there for realm, falling out over mis communication (boy does she get around a bit )

I would like to extend GoPs hand of reconcilliation (Turamber can bring it ), care to take it?

Thanks

Jaas

 

[maxgirth]

Re: Grow Up

Originally posted by old.Jessica




what use is a "tank" hitting something on his own compared to 2 or more tanks hitting on the same target.

Lose the stupid 'I can solo xxx' attitude and go for 'the group I'm in just killed 2FG's of mids/hibs becuase we rock when we work together.'

I agreed with much of what you said,but the tank bit rears its ugly head once more,just to clarify why we tanks hit more than 1 target,which is simplicity itself, look along the back line of the enemy and you will see more than 1 caster/healer types,all these whilst being hit cannot do their jobs,so 5 tanks hitting same target = 4 enemies still active in their duties, but 5 tanks hitting 5 different targets = no healing etc for their tanks etc, who by now should be having their asses fried.

 

[old.Jessica]

I agreed with much of what you said,but the tank bit rears its ugly head once more,just to clarify why we tanks hit more than 1 target,which is simplicity itself, look along the back line of the enemy and you will see more than 1 caster/healer types,all these whilst being hit cannot do their jobs,so 5 tanks hitting same target = 4 enemies still active in their duties, but 5 tanks hitting 5 different targets = no healing etc for their tanks etc, who by now should be having their asses fried.

5 'tanks' of 5 targets... That is the most misguided idea ever imagined. If the battle was linear in nature, I would agree that this tactic would suit. But battles are not, will never be, and under no uncertain terms should this tactic ever be empolyed by any group.

The reasons are quite clear. Now, I'll assume you are a bright lad Max, and will say one phrase to you - Concentration of Firepower.

The term is simple to perform. You concentrate all attacks on one target until it is removed.

This is why mezzing works. And why healers/bards/sorc get -somewhat- upset when people break their mezzes.
A mezz totally removes that person frmo the battle for the duration of the mezz. That person you realise obviously, cannot cast a spell, cannot hit anything, cannot move, cannot use an RA's, cannot instant. That person is as good as dead. Plain, simple fact.

What do you want at the start of battles? Everything mezzed. What do you want at the end? Everything dead.
What is the quickest way to kill someone? Gang up on them. Concentration of Firepower.

5 anyones, let alone tanks, targeting 5 different enemy is just horrid. What if the enemy gang up on you?

Example:
5 vs 5
One side goes for the 1v1 approach while the other does 5 vs 1.

Who wins a 5 vs 1 battle? Errrr. The 5.

That one dies faster than you will kill 1 of them.

Then the battle becomes - very quickly - 4 vs 5.

You now have 4 people... they get the spare man....

Now they pick another one of you to target.

It becomes 3 vs 5.

If you are LUCKY, an enemy caster will die.
Usually about the same time you lose another of your members.

2 vs 4.

1 vs 4

You lose.

It's not JUST concentration of firepower, it's also about target recognition. Killing the RIGHT target first, such as mezzers, healers will make killing the rest easy, and prevent your side from getting 'killed' by a mezz or making one or more 'unkillable' because they are getting healed.

With reference to 'tanks' in particular, you get yelled at to kill casters first, because it makes -sense- to kill them first.
And you will do your job better if it's at least 2vs1 as you will kill the target quicker thus freeing you to move to the next one that much -faster-.

How many times have we each been 'ganked'. We throw our arms in the air becuase - there was nothing we could do. Except pray for heals from the Clerics. How many times have you died in shock because you DID get heals and managed to take down 2-3 people during the fight? Or assist killed them with a fellow groupmate.

This is tried.
This is tested.
There is mathematical proof.
There is no question as to this working.

But it is Target Recognition that makes it work. Mezz kills. Don't ress someone by breaking the mezz.

Tanks suffer on these boards, a lot more of late. I love you all being a Cleric. You can take 2-3 hits before you need heals, giving me time to keep our casters alive. But you only get about 6 to 9 seconds to get onto a target. Win the fight - pick something useful to kill. Not something that is dead already (mezzed).

Just out of interest... Do you use the 5vs5 tactic for PvE too? You pull and you pop one group member onto each mob? or do you let it be CCed and all concentrate on one mob at a time? You do don't you. So why the hell don't you do it in RvR.

It's in the Manual - PvE is 'training' for RvR.
The quests you do to get your epic try to teach you this.


Here's a quote from countless people of late :

"I don't like being told what to do!"

Some things you are told because it's fun.
Some things you are told because it's true.
Most things you are told KEEP YOU ALIVE.

Or do you just like being dead?

Jesi

 

[old.mattshanes]

Ok if they was all fighter classes vs 5 enchanters/or mixed hib casters then would you all go for one?i know dam sure an enchanter would kill you in a few seconds if you did,i have 1645hp and i died to one in about that time.Also a caster like an enchanter could kill the whole group itself.

 

[Hufner]

Ooooh... Thank you for a lovely jovely flame to read


Jesi, ever heard of pbae groups? 5 vs 5 is used there to great effect
Other than that, you're correct...

If you was the healer in my group, and I constantly told you what to do - "Heal me!" "Mez" "Buf" - would you not be annoyed?

Granted, there are tanks that don't know their job - but same with healers. You still ask for trouble by telling people what to do.

 

[old.mattshanes]

My post was a group with no cc that's what max was mainly trying to say about and if they came up against a group that i used as an example.

 

[old.Jessica]

5 Tanks Vs 5 Casters is farly bloody obvious what you do Matt.

But don't look at extreme cases when I'm obviously refering to more 'balanced' groups or '1fg+' situation.

Any group that consists of 5 of the same is kinda powerful in it's own right.

Back from my mid days on Excal I remember by GM saying 'Beware eight Thanes in a group'.

But that's the point isn't it? AOE/PBAOE tactics differ vastly, but is ultimatly the same.

5 tanks vs 5 eld the elds will win thanks to quickcast. If they kill one of the tanks in 5 shots (very likly) it immediatly leaves one of them free to chain you to death.

Better tactic in that situation would be to 'CC' with slam. 9 seconds should be all you need to swap targets and help kill your mates eld. The trick is getting close enough to them. (which you need to anyway...)

What often doesn't happen is the slam and change target. Again, try it for yourselves.

Jesi

 

[old.mattshanes]

Erm think me and max have known from the amount of time we been in the game thank you besides when we had 2fg in emain last night we hardly cc at all went for all different targets and seriously kicked ass so you can do it the way max said which i find isnt a bad way at all,oh and some were from your guild so.

Also having so many use of purge now the mezzes break more often.

 

[old.Jessica]

Ahh.. Another excuse to offer more tactics. Thanks Hrafnir.

If you was the healer in my group, and I constantly told you what to do - "Heal me!" "Mez" "Buf" - would you not be annoyed?

No. That doesn't annoy me. Not in the least. Over the last year I've played Healer, Cleric and Bard. All buff, all mezz, all rezz, all heal.

That is what I do.

Buff.

Heal.

Mezz.

Rezz.

Why should I be asked to do what my class is there to do? I do it anyway, or I wouldn't be playing the class.

Countering PBAOE groups...

Again, it comes down to recognising it for what it is, and doing something about it.

Simply, the best way to deal with PB is.... yes, you guess it, range. Outranging PB is easy. keep it far enough away and it can't hurt you. Stopping it getting to you helps...

Once the PBer is dead, it's just another group.

And... moving past/away from the PBer instead of turning about to hit it is actually the better option for tanks. Let your casters deal with it. PB does nothing unless it's next to you. Just pray you don't get too close to a paralise/stun. If you are that unlucky, hope your cleric/healer is sensible enough to be back away from the battle happily healing you from a distance.

Jesi

 

[old.mattshanes]

Well since all this RA crap you have to sometimes fight with cc or sometimes attack all targets but using cc does help and usually most common way but attacking all targets you have to use it in certain situations and can be just as effective sometimes.

 

[old.Jessica]

Also having so many use of purge now the mezzes break more often.

That's why we have root, snare and mezz.

Purge only works once. Purge is also on a timer. How lucky that something got CC'd and the guy couldn't purge becuase he'd done that recently.


Any mid will tell you how effective Healer mezz is, even with purge.

Any hib will tell you how annoying root is right after they just group purged... and they'll tell you how wonderful their bards are with their mezz.

Too many albs don't get the chance to group with Sorcs and it really shows.

 

[old.mattshanes]

We hardly have any sorcs lately that's why.Determination lv 3+ and i am laughing

We won 5 out of 5 battles even amount of enemies so... yes as i said cc helps if you have it use it but sometimes if you caught by surprise you can hardly cc where you would go for different targets.

 

[old.Jessica]

Don't get me wrong Matt.

The one target for everyone will work.

I put it to you to try it a different way, and gank each of the enemy in turn with your group mates.

See if you don't win that much more often.

 

[old.mattshanes]

I have had many battles with cc and lost and many without and lost but hasn't been often unless outnumbered just depends what you up against.

 

[old.Jessica]

True words again Matt.

CC is a handy tool for evening up the odds. Especially in those situations, everyone should be extremly concious of breaking any root/mezz.

There is a basic rule and it goes like this:

If it isn't moving, fighting or casting, don't touch it.

I've seen Mids very well trained in this. To the point of leaving me alone because I am standing still and not casting. (Due to having noone to heal, or seeing the rest of my group mezzed).

They rush off and beat on people elsewhere due to the wonderful game engine forceing a great many people to RvR with /effects self.

Many a mid group has come undone because I am free to insta and cast as nessesary.

(Must mention Knudden here as he does this a hell of a lot, it works becuase we were not actually standing within the mezz radius...)


To show more willing and to make a move to support our tanks, why not start a 'What are you shooting at!?' campaign against all our wizards, thurgies, scouts etc? They are as responsible for not working together to nuke 'active' enemy as much as people lead us believe about our tanks.

It's not just tanks rushing forward to kill casters, but a little help from ranged attackers goes a long way too. If only we could sometimes stop people just hitting F8....

 

[old.mattshanes]

As if i don't know all that all ready,sigh hard job playing daoc isn't it

 

[Hufner]

Heheh, well hitting F8 is one thing. Getting them to avoid hitting /stick macro as well is another...

Lots of different tactics for lots of different situations, where mez/root is for come types of engagements...