wtf?!

[Dukat]

The date on this article is 2002 but I never saw it at the time, just saw it from random google searching, had to post it tbh.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1874471.stm

For those who cant be arsed to read it:

Arab religious police stopped girls from leaving a burning school because they were not wearing thier black masks or whatever it is the women over there wear, as a result 15 died in the fire.

?!?! what ?!?!

 

[Gamah]

Another reason not to believe in religion.

 

[- English -]

its the middle east, what do u expect

 

[Basic_X]

its the middle east, what do u expect

yea, but this is alittle over the top tbh, no one with a brain and comon sense would do what those persons did

 

[Thorwyn]

Just 20 years ago, people in the oh so civilized Europe were burning down cinemas because they showed a movie where Jesus had sexual intercourse with Maria Magdalena.

 

[Dorimor1]

Ergh, these arabs are savages, imo leave Iraq/Afghanistan and let them do all these rituals and whatnot away from the rest of the world.

 

[Case]

Am I the only cynic in the building....

 

[old.Tohtori]

Well, it's their way of life.

It's as simple as that.

FYI, the savage calling that's been going around towards other countries, was the reason the bloody crusades and cleansings began.

careful what you spit out.

 

[Chronictank]

Ergh, these arabs are savages, imo leave Iraq/Afghanistan and let them do all these rituals and whatnot away from the rest of the world.

never going to happen, the west needs oil and is willing to flatten countries for it...
who were the "savages" again?

 

[Pirkel]

Am I the only cynic in the building....

Nope but there is very few of us apparantly

 

[Dukat]

Imo there is a difference between politics and murder.

Using saddam being a tosser as an excuse to invade iraq and get the arpees (or oil or whatever) is a fair way away from forcing children to die a horrible death because they are not wearing the holy black bedsheet of allah or whatever the fuck they call them.

We may have indirectly caused suffering by being over there but atleast we had an (arguably) valid reason for doing it, these religious wankers were directly and personally responsible for the deaths of all 15 of those girls.

Just 20 years ago, people in the oh so civilized Europe were burning down cinemas because they showed a movie where Jesus had sexual intercourse with Maria Magdalena.

two things:

1. that was 20 years ago

2. Were there people in those cinemas? burning property and burning people is a tad different imo.

 

[Darksword]

hmmm, christians use to run around setting fire people to people because they were arabs. so you're the fucking savages?

 

[noblok]

We may have indirectly caused suffering by being over there but atleast we had an (arguably) valid reason for doing it, these religious wankers were directly and personally responsible for the deaths of all 15 of those girls.

May have? Indirectly? You're talking about the Iraq War, right? The one with the Abu Greib prison, right?

 

[Dukat]

May have? Indirectly? You're talking about the Iraq War, right? The one with the Abu Greib prison, right?

I am not an expert on the Gulf war(s), nor will I pretend to be. I believe that the majority of soldiers going to the gulf did not go there to kill children. I believe that the "religious police" mentioned in the article did kill children.

I am not going to debate the specifics of it because I do not know most of the specifics, and tbh I doubt that anyone, including you and even the majority of soldiers in iraq atm, know about all of the specifics. Therefore it will mainly boil down to opinion, and IN MY OPINION there is a difference between what the majority our soldiers are doing, have done and intend to do, and what those scum of the fucking earth religious pricks did to those girls.

 

[Dukat]

hmmm, christians use to run around setting fire people to people because they were arabs. so you're the fucking savages?

Maybe some of my ancestors were "fucking savages" but actually no, I have not set alight to anyone (atleast that I can remember) so do not believe that I am a "fucking savage".

This was in 2002AD, not 2002BC ffs.

 

[Svartmetall]

Shit like this just reinforces my atheism even more strongly.

 

[Thorwyn]

1. that was 20 years ago

2. Were there people in those cinemas? burning property and burning people is a tad different imo.

well... and? 20 years ago isn´t like back in the middle ages. Our civilization didn´t make any significant progress in that time, looking at the recent history, I´d even say it went a couple of steps back.

I can´t remember if the attacks were made on full or empty cinemas. And I also agree that there is a difference between killing people and destroying property. But the point I tried to make is, that our side is not as civilized and tolerant as we would like it to be. This was just an example. Look over the great pond and see what´s happening there when extreme christians are leading their campaigns against abortion for example.. sending death threats to surgeons who´re making abortions and all that stuff.

It´s really not up to us to shake our heads at others as long as there´s the same crap happening right in front of our doorsteps. As soon as religion is in the game, people will always go to the extremes. I`m in no way defending what those arabs did. I just want to set it into relation to us.

 

[Dukat]

well... and? 20 years ago isn´t like back in the middle ages. Our civilization didn´t make any significant progress in that time, looking at the recent history, I´d even say it went a couple of steps back.

I can´t remember if the attacks were made on full or empty cinemas. And I also agree that there is a difference between killing people and destroying property. But the point I tried to make is, that our side is not as civilized and tolerant as we would like it to be. This was just an example. Look over the great pond and see what´s happening there when extreme christians are leading their campaigns against abortion for example.. sending death threats to surgeons who´re making abortions and all that stuff.

It´s really not up to us to shake our heads at others as long as there´s the same crap happening right in front of our doorsteps. As soon as religion is in the game, people will always go to the extremes. I`m in no way defending what those arabs did. I just want to set it into relation to us.

but these people are acknowledged as extremists by the majority of people over here. Over there they dont seem to be, infact half of the bastards seem to be employed by an arm of the saudi government.

Seems to me that theres a fair difference between us and them. I cant accept that we are as uncivilised as them. The majority of right-thinking britons would never have allowed it to happen imo, i mean ffs even the majority of our native "lowly chav" lifeforms are more civilised than that (imo).

 

[noblok]

I am not an expert on the Gulf war(s), nor will I pretend to be. I believe that the majority of soldiers going to the gulf did not go there to kill children. I believe that the "religious police" mentioned in the article did kill children.

I am not going to debate the specifics of it because I do not know most of the specifics, and tbh I doubt that anyone, including you and even the majority of soldiers in iraq atm, know about all of the specifics. Therefore it will mainly boil down to opinion, and IN MY OPINION there is a difference between what the majority our soldiers are doing, have done and intend to do, and what those scum of the fucking earth religious pricks did to those girls.

So, who is the 'we' in your statement then? Apparently it isn't the US and UK forces in Iraq, because they have seriously misbehaved in the Abu Greib incident. I don't need to know all the facts about that; I've seen the images, I've read the news-reports, that's all I need. Under no circumstances such behaviour is acceptable (edit: a possible exception being, being threatened with having the same or worse done to you). Just like you condemn the behaviour of the religious police without knowing all the specifics either.

[Note: the first question is the most important part. Feel free to comment on the rest of my post, but I'd like an answer to that question as well ]

 

[Dukat]

So, who is the 'we' in your statement then? Apparently it isn't the US and UK forces in Iraq, because they have seriously misbehaved in the Abu Greib incident. I don't need to know all the facts about that; I've seen the images, I've read the news-reports, that's all I need. Under no circumstances such behaviour is acceptable (edit: a possible exception being, being threatened with having the same or worse done to you). Just like you condemn the behaviour of the religious police without knowing all the specifics either.

[Note: the first question is the most important part. Feel free to comment on the rest of my post, but I'd like an answer to that question as well ]

"We" in my post as in the UK/Britian as a country, as in me being a briton we being british.

I have to be honest, I havent heard of the Abu Grieb prison incident by that name, may have heard of the incident though without knowing the name.

The thing is, I doubt that this incident had british soldiers killing children on purpose, please correct me if I'm wrong on that though.

 

[noblok]

To be honest, I don't think Brittish troops were involved, but according to the wikipedia article they are taught the same 'resistance to interrogation' techniques, so I don't think it's unlikely that Brittish troops have shown similar misbehaviour. After all, you don't get taught torture techniques with the idea not to use them.

[link 1]
[link 2]

 

[Dukat]

To be honest, I don't think Brittish troops were involved, but according to the wikipedia article they are taught the same 'resistance to interrogation' techniques, so I don't think it's unlikely that Brittish troops have shown similar misbehaviour. After all, you don't get taught torture techniques with the idea not to use them.

[link 1]
[link 2]

Ah, I had heard of that incident, was the americans so I didnt realise I agree with what you're saying but remember that the people involved were courtmartialed etc and it was frowned apon by our public, if it was the other way around the arabs would give the people involved a medal and thier public would almost certainly cheer them.

Imo they get taught "torture techniques" to extract information - however illegally - from high level enemy POW's etc, not on civilians. If it gets used on a civilian by us its either a big mistake or that civilian has done something very bad.

Look at the people we're fighting, they purposefully TARGET our civilians and non-combatants for bombs, for kidnapping(with a view to use said torture techniques) and basically anything they can level at us. This is not a mistake on thier part, thats the difference between us and them right there imo.

 

[Chronictank]

Look at the people we're fighting, they purposefully TARGET our civilians and non-combatants for bombs, for kidnapping(with a view to use said torture techniques) and basically anything they can level at us. This is not a mistake on thier part, thats the difference between us and them right there imo.

you mean like lebannon today ?
The UK and US backed reigime has stated that they are going to starve a already crippled country because they have removed ALL services in the area of economic inconomic income. So in short signing the death warrants of a large proportion of the general populous, who are.. surprise surprise .. civilians.

Not to mention the fact that the UK did nothing to prevent the use of illegal weapons against Lebannon, (the cluster bombs etc etc), putting the country in exactly the same situation as Sadaam Hussein who used Chemical Weapons (which are illegal) against the Kurds. I can bet you that nothing will be done about this.

I wont even go into the new anti-terror laws, the fact if your brown-skinned or have a "terrorist" complection you can be kicked off a plane, humiliated with a search in public and various other things going on today as it is falling on deaf ears.
i have no sympathy for people who feel the need to blow themselves up in the biggest crowd of civilians they can find, but at the same time its laughable claiming that they are savages when the government we have elected is no better.
But at the same time nor do i judge them, as people dont just kill themselves unless they believe what they are doing is right or they have no choice

Funnily enough Saudi has one of the lowest crime rates in the world, so they must be doing something better than us

 

[old.Tohtori]

I'm just wondering, should we then "educate" every other race and religion on earth about the way we live?

Because...ofcourse WE are right. Not like other religions/cultures say that.

By we i don't mean me or other members of this thread, i mean the people who seemingly dictate what is and isn't "wrong".

 

[Chronictank]

nerf edit timer, remove inconomic from above im tierd ><
time for food i thinks

p.s A good soldier does whatever they are told, if they are told to execute a 2 yr old girl they are expected to do it without hesitation.
What a individual soldier thinks doesnt matter, its what he/she is told to do that does

 

[Cozak]

The date on this article is 2002 but I never saw it at the time, just saw it from random google searching, had to post it tbh.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1874471.stm

For those who cant be arsed to read it:

Arab religious police stopped girls from leaving a burning school because they were not wearing thier black masks or whatever it is the women over there wear, as a result 15 died in the fire.

?!?! what ?!?!

This shit is sick and medival. You think they would be able to modernise their religion a little bit.

 

[noblok]

Imo they get taught "torture techniques" to extract information - however illegally - from high level enemy POW's etc, not on civilians.

Correction: on suspected high level enemy POW's. When I look at the number of Guantanamo prisoners who got a trial, I highly doubt many of the Iraq prisoners have been convicted. No matter how much evidence you've got, as far as I know, in a democracy - which is what they're claiming to install there - the "innocent untill proven guilty" principle goes.

Look at the people we're fighting, they purposefully TARGET our civilians and non-combatants for bombs, for kidnapping(with a view to use said torture techniques) and basically anything they can level at us. This is not a mistake on thier part, thats the difference between us and them right there imo.

I'm sorry, but those aren't the ones you're fighting at the moment. These guys live in your own country or somewhere else, undercover. The ones you're fighting now are just people who got ticked off because you invaded their country and managed to run it worse than Sadam did. They find strength in knowing that they are supported by the "big boys", but they probably never even had contact with them.

At the start Al-Zarqawi had nothing to do with Al-Qaeda, but because attaching your name to Al-Qaeda increases your impact and power, he did. In fact: he wasn't the one who did it, the US did. They couldn't just admit that they were under attack by some small Iraqi groups - after all, they were going to be welcomed as heroes and saviours -, so they once again called on the big enemy.

 

[evzy]

In the midst of all this actual discussion...has no-one realised - it was as originally stated - the article is from 2002 - yet no-one has said "Old" yet...

Unbeliveable that tho...

 

[Dorimor1]

Which leaders kill their own people?

Which 'religions' encourage killing others?

That, is what I call savage.

 

[Chronictank]

Which leaders kill their own people?

British generals in ww1 sent hundrerds of thousands of troops to their deaths when they realised they fucked up, they just kept sending them.
Anyone turning round and running back from the slaughter was branded a traitor and guilty of treason.

Which 'religions' encourage killing others?

None of the main stream religions encourage killing others

So i fail to see what this statement has to do with the discussion at hand,
altho admitedly this is all slightly off topic