Wizards ???????

[Ormorof]

Yeah not arguing that, just that runies get more usefull things to spec in 2nd line, bladeturn, nearsight.. urm and whatever else.. cant be assed to look at catacombs

the all useful confusion

 

[Vandar]

One things for sure, ice wizzy dmg from the DD is sucky, the 10% debuff is not worth it imao.

Casting speed
2.8s nukes on an avalonian will give a dex of 320'ish fully toa'd. I think the other realms naturally have races with higher starting dex than alb so they may end up with 340 dex and the same 2.8s spec nukes and 2.6s base line nukes. Can't out nuke a nuker
Alb mage classes on the other had will have 360+ and a 2.5s nuke/lifedrain.
Even at lvl 47 with the 50% body debuff and baseline lifetap my Cabby hits for more than my ice wizz. Throw into the equation ns, aoe disease and snare, tuff pet, endless powa .... Cabby for the win

Utility
The old story goes that wizz sacrifice utility for dmg, if that was the case you'd expect to see them have higher dmg nukes than anyone else ... nuff said

 

[fl3a]

Only thing a RM doesn't have that wizards do is Root (albion has 3 aoe roots or some resion)

hi, supp baseline.

 

[Balbor]

hi, supp baseline.

yeah bring that baseline AOE root on

Best nukers in the game are Chanter, Runies and Cabalists becasue they can debuff there own nukes.

Give Firewizards a self reists pircing buff or something (Int buff is crap cause clerics can give them that and other realms caster can get that)

 

[Zebolt]

Best nukers in the game are Chanter, Runies and Cabalists becasue they can debuff there own nukes.

50 dark rm's nuke harder than 48 rc ones that debuff their own nukes fyi, and Im pretty sure ligh elds nuke harder than chanters (not sure tho).

So thats not right at all :>

 

[Dracus]

Light chanter nukes harder than light eld...hib spec DD is only 45 spec..so light chanter can get first debuff..for spec DD

/Dracus

 

[Shike]

yeah bring that baseline AOE root on

Best nukers in the game are Chanter, Runies and Cabalists becasue they can debuff there own nukes.

Give Firewizards a self reists pircing buff or something (Int buff is crap cause clerics can give them that and other realms caster can get that)

heh, and what the hell exactly is wrong with using assist on a debuffer? We do it all the time in our grp. Chanter nukes for shit compared to eld on assist. Same goes for a wiz on assist on a sorc like Sycho said.

Do you even play a caster Balbor? Do you know how excessive the manausage on a chanter nuking is compared to a debuff+specnukercombo? An idiot would say the best nuker is a selfdebuffer using baselines. Best nuker is a specnuker on assist on a good MA that debuffs. Otherwise you'll find yourself oop very very fast. Goes for pretty much any selfdebuffer.

Roll a cabby Balbor, play it in RVR to rr5-6 or so, then come back and say its the best nuker in DAoC along with other baselinenukers...

 

[fl3a]

yeah bring that baseline AOE root on

you said just root. you didnt say aeroot.

 

[Balbor]

heh, and what the hell exactly is wrong with using assist on a debuffer? We do it all the time in our grp. Chanter nukes for shit compared to eld on assist. Same goes for a wiz on assist on a sorc like Sycho said.

Do you even play a caster Balbor? Do you know how excessive the manausage on a chanter nuking is compared to a debuff+specnukercombo? An idiot would say the best nuker is a selfdebuffer using baselines. Best nuker is a specnuker on assist on a good MA that debuffs. Otherwise you'll find yourself oop very very fast. Goes for pretty much any selfdebuffer.

Roll a cabby Balbor, play it in RVR to rr5-6 or so, then come back and say its the best nuker in DAoC along with other baselinenukers...

Nothing wrong with using assist on a debuffer be were not talking about that, were talking about indervidual classes here. If you start added outside debuffing then why add even more like ML, buffbots and full RAs.

An Enchanter Debuffing for an Eldritches Spec DD is very different from a Sorcerer debuffing for a wizard, as he Enchant is also debuffing for there own Spec DD at the same time, while sorcerer are not. The Albion equivelent is a Cabalist Debuffing Body for is own baseline LT and a sorcerers Spec DD (although the sorcerer LT would probably be better as faster to cast). Its the same for RMs who can debuff for there own Baseline and the spec nukes for any Darkness RMs and SMs.

 

[Shike]

Nothing wrong with using assist on a debuffer be were not talking about that, were talking about indervidual classes here. If you start added outside debuffing then why add even more like ML, buffbots and full RAs.

An Enchanter Debuffing for an Eldritches Spec DD is very different from a Sorcerer debuffing for a wizard, as he Enchant is also debuffing for there own Spec DD at the same time, while sorcerer are not. The Albion equivelent is a Cabalist Debuffing Body for is own baseline LT and a sorcerers Spec DD (although the sorcerer LT would probably be better as faster to cast). Its the same for RMs who can debuff for there own Baseline and the spec nukes for any Darkness RMs and SMs.

fgs, u dont even know wtf u talk about man..

LightElds specDD is COLD, chanters baseline and speccDD is HEAT. Wizards speccDD is also 219DD meanwhile Elds is 209DD, another advantage is also that Sorcs debuff has near doubled duration, 15s vs 8s, it may not seem as much but in reality it actually is.

And if we are gonna discuss soloing casters (which imo is completely irrelevant, who the hell cares about soloing grpchars?), BD surpass every caster with a mile overall solowise. You only said best nuker and that is not a selddebuffer, thats a speccnuker on assist as he shud be in a grouped environment.

 

[Balbor]

fgs, u dont even know wtf u talk about man..

LightElds specDD is COLD, chanters baseline and speccDD is HEAT. Wizards speccDD is also 219DD meanwhile Elds is 209DD, another advantage is also that Sorcs debuff has near doubled duration, 15s vs 8s, it may not seem as much but in reality it actually is.

And if we are gonna discuss soloing casters (which imo is completely irrelevant, who the hell cares about soloing grpchars?), BD surpass every caster with a mile overall solowise. You only said best nuker and that is not a selddebuffer, thats a speccnuker on assist as he shud be in a grouped environment.

first off, last time i checked debuffing Enchanters get a cold debuff or please tell me i'm wrong. I didn't say anything about solo, just indervidual classes. A wizard that doesn't have a sorcerer debuffing doesn't mean they are solo, mean there may not be a sorcerer around or sorcerer could be dead.

Even with outside assistence, Wizards lack of a high dex starter race leaves them behind in DPS against of there casters.

 

[Tua]

An Enchanter Debuffing for an Eldritches Spec DD is very different from a Sorcerer debuffing for a wizard, as he Enchant is also debuffing for there own Spec DD at the same time, while sorcerer are not.

eld spec dd= cold
chanter spec dd= heat

chanter debuffing cold for eld spec dd, will not debuff their own spec dd..

i do believe that was the point shike was trying to make?

 

[Shike]

first off, last time i checked debuffing Enchanters get a cold debuff or please tell me i'm wrong. I didn't say anything about solo, just indervidual classes. A wizard that doesn't have a sorcerer debuffing doesn't mean they are solo, mean there may not be a sorcerer around or sorcerer could be dead.

Even with outside assistence, Wizards lack of a high dex starter race leaves them behind in DPS against of there casters.

I did some quick calculations

Wiz should land on around 340 dex TOAd and can get aug dex 2 for 4pnts and that would mean around 350 dex. I wouldnt call that gimped tbh. Put in 10% castspeed and yer set to go.

60basedex, 23 from lvling, 100 from items, 155 from buffs, 12 from aug dex 2 = 350, add in 10% castspeed and it aint too shabby for a 219DDing nuker especially if he is assisting a bodysorc like he should do.

((219DD*3)1.09)1.09 = 780 nukecap with MoM3 (nrs can differ slightly but that formula is generally very close) for a Firewizard on a 15s debuff that should last around 9s in general. If yer crazy go mom4 and 802 is cap.

My Nukecap on my chanter is currently 621 with mom2.

Hmm... a Firewiz 2 shots me easily (if he didnt do that on a range where I cant even reach the bastid! ^^ bolts _hurt_) with 2 nukes, should take around 2.2 seconds or so.

SpeccDD of the highest delve in daoc along with RMs, 2 crazy bolts, AoEspeccDD of 158 (remember a baseDD is 179).

Sure, I can agree on that wizards maybe lack alittle "fluff", but seriously, it aint a gimped class in any way if played correctly. Also remember it would be very very hard to give wizards anything without making them overpowered since their basic functions are so extreme. Casters is about damage to 80% or so imho and this is where Firewizards excel. Use it right and its a very very deadly toon. Bring out crazy wizgrps Sycho! Wanna have good casterfights I wish I had a firewiz actually :I

Septina as MA/Mainmezzer, walker, pbuck, solarflare as firewizards... I'd wanna see the killrate on that casterteam tbh

 

[Shike]

eld spec dd= cold
chanter spec dd= heat

chanter debuffing cold for eld spec dd, will not debuff their own spec dd..

i do believe that was the point shike was trying to make?

yep but i realized its no point in trying to explain stuff to a guy that obviosly know jackshit anyway

 

[Ctuchik]

Remove firewizz specc DD and let them have the bolts in fire and give them dex and str debuff, problem solved.. and move the specc DD's to earth line...

coz theres no fucking way Mythic will let u have both specc bolt AND specc DD in same line if they give u something else... and no earth bolt dont really count as they dont really benefit from the baseline bolt if they go full earth..

 

[Balbor]

eld spec dd= cold
chanter spec dd= heat

chanter debuffing cold for eld spec dd, will not debuff their own spec dd..

i do believe that was the point shike was trying to make?

a chanter can debuff for both but would a more effective to debuff heat and then have both him and eld nuke with there baseline. A chanter and Eld nuking with there baselines on a debuffed target will do more damage than a eld nuking with is specline only. A you cannot base all asumption on other classes being there.

 

[Balbor]

yep but i realized its no point in trying to explain stuff to a guy that obviosly know jackshit anyway

like you

your Dex fomular means that a wizard can get the highest Dex in the game, NO you ideot, Cabalists, Sorcerers, Necromancers, Eldritch Enchanter, Mentalist, Bonedancer, Runemaster and Spiritmaster all can get higher Dex (and there for a bigger cast speed reduction) that Wizards, only casters in the gae that cannot have higher are Theurgist and Animist (if you count them in the same league as other cloth casters).

((219DD*3)1.09)1.09 = 780 nukecap with MoM3 (nrs can differ slightly but that formula is generally very close) for a Firewizard on a 15s debuff that should last around 9s in general. If yer crazy go mom4 and 802 is cap.

My Nukecap on my chanter is currently 621 with mom2.

lets see what happens when the sorcerer goes, that 780 become 390 while your chanter can still huke for 621. Wizard uses MOC, Chanter just QC stun and then finishes wizard off.

stop running all your theories at RR11, ML10, L50 boffbot, full capped TOA L10 artifacts cause it accounts for less than 1% of the player base.

 

[Zebolt]

lets see what happens when the sorcerer goes, that 780 become 390 while your chanter can still huke for 621. Wizard uses MOC, Chanter just QC stun and then finishes wizard off.

Have you actually played a caster at decent a lvl? That is not easy at all, and it's not a safe card as you make it sound. When you use QC you will cast the spell at the speed that the spell has (no ToA Bonuses used etc) and in that 2.5 sec + reaction time you will have nuked him at least 3 times and he will be dead..

 

[Flimgoblin]

Wizards get to nuke like RM's

shame we don't get the pbt or the nearsight...

or the debuffs....

or anything else remotely useful.

What do we get?

We get another low level nuke in our secondary spec - rah!

Having both bolts + spec DD rather than both bolts + baseline DD + debuffs + nearsight (oh wait does that have 2300 range and make you win the bolt war?)

Wizards + 20% from power relics is about even with runemasters

 

[Sycho]

My wiz has 361 dex buffed, he casts pretty damn fast, especially on bolts.Shike i want to, i probably make some good ones soon, with a debuff body sorc wizard damage is just insane....even without they nuke pretty hard, i wouldn't call 450-600s a nuke bad.It's just vs red resists you get lower damage but that's really only vs good mid group.

I usually have no problems vs chanters face to face UNLESS they are in my nuke range at beginning, if they stun me i am fucked but if i am in bolt range they are(poor nilmeia got bolted 1747 last night ,1181+566), the dps interupt though should be fixed...but i think most would agree on that and know mythic haven't said anything about it yet.

If saracen became wizards it would be nice but i think the dps would be a bit too much with a 50% heat debuff body sorc...(i did 782 a nuke on some high rr healer this week, with traldor that would of been 818 a nuke, now imagine a saracen doing this with roughly 5% more cast speed Oo)

Any toa sc'ed caster seems pretty good now though, i been hit 700s often by some elds/sms.

I kind of agree on what zebolt said earlier, the utility was taken in alb's other casters too much but still wizard can be decent if played well.Shike come alb and roll fire wiz xE

 

[Shike]

like you

your Dex fomular means that a wizard can get the highest Dex in the game, NO you ideot, Cabalists, Sorcerers, Necromancers, Eldritch Enchanter, Mentalist, Bonedancer, Runemaster and Spiritmaster all can get higher Dex (and there for a bigger cast speed reduction) that Wizards, only casters in the gae that cannot have higher are Theurgist and Animist (if you count them in the same league as other cloth casters).

haha, first of all, Zel who is an elpheldritch has over 370 dex. Wiz _cannot_ get the highest dex in the game at all. You must be truly stupid to make that assumption from what I originally wrote. I wrote that wiz can reach 350 dex relatively easy. Note that number, 350, now compare it to past 370 you imbecill. Learn to read moron. I assume you meant to call me idiot aswell.. not ideot. You dont know jackshit, you cant even fucking read read ffs, its obvious.

lets see what happens when the sorcerer goes, that 780 become 390 while your chanter can still huke for 621. Wizard uses MOC, Chanter just QC stun and then finishes wizard off.

stop running all your theories at RR11, ML10, L50 boffbot, full capped TOA L10 artifacts cause it accounts for less than 1% of the player base.

390 is also wrong depending on what you meet, mids will normally have higher heatresists due to the shaman speccing alittle higher in Aug than Druids specc in Nurture. You assume sorc will die, well... here's news for you, chanters die too, so does wizards and savages. If sorc is good, he will have time to debuff plenty before he goes down. I've done _exact_ same thing with chanter and it works excellent, I've even used double debuffs and gotten good results with 3 assisting speccnukers. Also, your scenario about moc etc.. heh..

Balbor, if you are gonna talk about casters, at least make sure you know how they work, play one to a decent RR, then you at least have more to stand on more than a smitecleric. And your comment about high RR, Artifacts.. I can only cry at you tbh. Newblar, go back to thid and learn something.

If someone is going RVR, without any form of decent RA's, no lvld artifacts, no buffbot and expect to win, they make a serious mistake and will only be frustrated. Some day ago I saw a guildmate playing eld + luona's NS take down a full group of albs.. sure you wasnt in it Balbor? Thats true newblars and you fit right in.

 

[Shike]

My wiz has 361 dex buffed, he casts pretty damn fast, especially on bolts.Shike i want to, i probably make some good ones soon, with a debuff body sorc wizard damage is just insane....even without they nuke pretty hard, i wouldn't call 450-600s a nuke bad.It's just vs red resists you get lower damage but that's really only vs good mid group.

I usually have no problems vs chanters face to face UNLESS they are in my nuke range at beginning, if they stun me i am fucked but if i am in bolt range they are(poor nilmeia got bolted 1747 last night ,1181+566), the dps interupt though should be fixed...but i think most would agree on that and know mythic haven't said anything about it yet.

If saracen became wizards it would be nice but i think the dps would be a bit too much with a 50% heat debuff body sorc...(i did 782 a nuke on some high rr healer this week, with traldor that would of been 818 a nuke, now imagine a saracen doing this with roughly 5% more cast speed Oo)

Any toa sc'ed caster seems pretty good now though, i been hit 700s often by some elds/sms.

I kind of agree on what zebolt said earlier, the utility was taken in alb's other casters too much but still wizard can be decent if played well.Shike come alb and roll fire wiz xE

/ponder how Balbor is gonna twist around facts from a Firewiz+my own post to make it into something like:

But a NS might PA the wiz during a fight and then he dies most likely.. hence they suck...

Beat some sense into Balbor please Matt! fgs :z So many idiots on this forum :/

And nope, aint gonna reroll again mate Had enough of my travelling on Prydwen (i dont have time or energy to go thru TOA one more time :x)

 

[-Freezingwiz-]

Boltcaster: Eldritch, Runemaster
PBAoE: Enchanter, Spiritmaster

Eld and runie both have Near sight
Chanter and SM both have pet

on top of that all of them have stat debuffs(SM and eld have AE debuffs)

and runie and chanter have self dmg debuff

SM have mezz
Chanter and eld have Stun


but...

Wizards have 2 bolts and a 219 delve spec DD in same line
AE nukes in all lines
Pbaoe + debuff, snare and a base line nuke in same line
GTAOE and AE root in same line


to bad that don't make up for the util on other casters tbh


AND !

Wizards are the only "Caster class" that don't have access to a high dex class :touch:

 

[Lakih]

Lots of text

This is the question i answerd:

What are the mid and hib classes similar to the wizard?

And i beleve my answer is correct

 

[Balbor]

haha, first of all, Zel who is an elpheldritch has over 370 dex. Wiz _cannot_ get the highest dex in the game at all. You must be truly stupid to make that assumption from what I originally wrote. I wrote that wiz can reach 350 dex relatively easy. Note that number, 350, now compare it to past 370 you imbecill. Learn to read moron. I assume you meant to call me idiot aswell.. not ideot. You dont know jackshit, you cant even fucking read read ffs, its obvious.



390 is also wrong depending on what you meet, mids will normally have higher heatresists due to the shaman speccing alittle higher in Aug than Druids specc in Nurture. You assume sorc will die, well... here's news for you, chanters die too, so does wizards and savages. If sorc is good, he will have time to debuff plenty before he goes down. I've done _exact_ same thing with chanter and it works excellent, I've even used double debuffs and gotten good results with 3 assisting speccnukers. Also, your scenario about moc etc.. heh..

Balbor, if you are gonna talk about casters, at least make sure you know how they work, play one to a decent RR, then you at least have more to stand on more than a smitecleric. And your comment about high RR, Artifacts.. I can only cry at you tbh. Newblar, go back to thid and learn something.

If someone is going RVR, without any form of decent RA's, no lvld artifacts, no buffbot and expect to win, they make a serious mistake and will only be frustrated. Some day ago I saw a guildmate playing eld + luona's NS take down a full group of albs.. sure you wasnt in it Balbor? Thats true newblars and you fit right in.

well Shike you do write a lot yet managed to say very little, commenting on spelling is usally the last resort of someone loosing an argument.

There is a big difference between RR4/ML1-4, 1-2 Artifacts and being RR11, ML10 with 3-4 L10 artifacts and a L50 BB.

I guess all you see is Fire spec DD delving for higher damage than any other single target DD and think they are the best nukers in the games because you have no idea what real world situations are.

Come Play a 50 firewizard and get a clue.

 

[Shike]

lol..

I give up, cant discuss with an idiot that dont understand anything at all

 

[NeonBlue]

now now children play nicely