Wireless Solution? Pic Attached

[eggy]

I've asked this before, but at the time didn't have the opportunity to go through with it, so going to ask again with picture attached (nerf Paint!!)

Black area = location of ADSL router
Grey area = location of desired computer
Red = windows

The ADSL net connection (2mb) comes into Building A, in the black area shown. There is a distance of 20m to Building B. Building B is 30m long. The height to the grey area (desired computer location) is 8m. The window from the grey area room points East. The window from the black area points South. The south walls of both buildings are aligned. There is a clear line of sight between the south walls of both buildings.

Is it possible to get a (decent) wireless connection between A and B? If so, how?

I will happily purchase a new router, antennas, wireless cards - whatever is needed to minimise ping. I can attach antennas externally on both buildings if required; on the south walls if that is necessary.

I'm not expecting a ping similar to wired connections; I just want to minimise it. Please be as specific as possible; best antennas/hardware options would be great - links to them if possible on eBuyer or another hardware site.

Many thanks in advance!

 

[scorge]

try this solution

building A wireless router/modem (linksys)

building B Wireless access point (linksys)


(wireless g network cards (linksysy) in Pc's

you might need antenna's, but you sould be able to get them afterwards if the signal strength is low.


diagram

internet ----- wireless modem/router ---- wireless Access point ---- client machines


Linksys WAG354G Wireless ADSL2+ Router with 4 port switch - £66.27
http://www.microdirect.co.uk/ProductInfo.aspx?ProductID=10196&GroupID=0

Linksys WAP54G 54Mb Wireless Access Point - £47.12
http://www.microdirect.co.uk/ProductInfo.aspx?ProductID=6990&GroupID=0

2 x Linksys WMP54G 54Mb Wireless PCI Network Card - (£30.08) £60.16
http://www.microdirect.co.uk/ProductInfo.aspx?ProductID=6993&GroupID=0

total £ 173.55


optional antennas

http://www1.linksys.com/international/presspage.asp?prid=207&coid=6

http://www.pcwb.com/linksys/wireless.jphtml


configure your wireless network to use WPAPSK (pre sharrd key) and you should be secure enough and have 54mps speed

 

[eggy]

But would the signal strength really be there from A, through double glazing/brick wall, 50m of air, then another wall into B?

I already use a Linksys wireless/4port switch gateway. Would buying an access point really give me signal that distance? Don't forget, the window at B isn't facing the right direction.

 

[scorge]

But would the signal strength really be there from A, through double glazing/brick wall, 50m of air, then another wall into B?

I already use a Linksys wireless/4port switch gateway. Would buying an access point really give me signal that distance? Don't forget, the window at B isn't facing the right direction.

The wireless g band uses pulsed radiation, depending on the wattage of the transmitter it should get through, it should have no problem with going through brick walls. Although lots of copper wiring as well as maybe any insulation that uses aluminium covers will reduce and distort the signal quality.

since you already have a linksys router, download netstumbler

http://www.netstumbler.com/


and install it on a laptop. Netstumbler is normally used to find and "hack" into wireless networks, it also though can give you a graphical chart of the signal strength of your wireless router. Just move around your house and see what the signal strength is like, that way you know where to put the access point in Building B. You may find that you do not need an access point in building B as the signal strength from the router is strong enough. you might not even need an access point, you can also get a linksys signal extender that can boost your the signal.

It might also help to show you where antennas can go.

http://ostg.pricegrabber.com/rating_getprodrev.php/product_id=2932693/id_type=masterid/start=15/

My diagram legend

yellow box - workstations with wireless g network cards
Green box - Building B wirless access point
magenta box - wirless g wireless router/modem

circles show possible coverage of wirless signal, grey fill shows signal overlap and connections

 

[eggy]

Ok, so basically what you're saying is;

I should buy an access point, put that in the house, then find the best place for it based on reception in the far room?

What would the ping/lag be like from the PC in B though? Would daoc be playable? (assuming reasonable signal)

 

[eggy]

The only other problem is;

due to the problems I have with routers; we often vary between two different brands. Would buying the "best" reviewed access point be compatible with both?

I've been recommended a netgear RangeMAX router. Any good?

 

[scorge]

Ok, so basically what you're saying is;

I should buy an access point, put that in the house, then find the best place for it based on reception in the far room?

What would the ping/lag be like from the PC in B though? Would daoc be playable? (assuming reasonable signal)

before you buy an access point use netstumbler on a laptop, you might find that you do not need an access point in Building B as the signal is quiet strong. it might save you money

The only other problem is;

due to the problems I have with routers; we often vary between two different brands. Would buying the "best" reviewed access point be compatible with both?

as long as they are wireless G (802.11g) compatible you should be ok, that means your wireless connection is at 54mps. If they are not linksys allows you to run in "mixed" mode which is bothe 802.11b and 802.11g compatible.

your ping will be bloody good, cannot guarantee your ping rate when it hits the internet, that depends on your route to DAOC and your ISP. But you will have no prob with wirless even when encrypted with WPA-PSK.

 

[eggy]

Ok so my plan of action is as follows then;

*Take laptop home with wireless card, use netstumbler (looks great) to try out reception in the designated PC room in building B
*If I reception at other side of house but not in PC room, buy an access point
*If I get reception in PC room (I'm sure I won't, tried this before I think) then buy antenna to boost signal

Cheers for the help so far!

 

[Hawkwind]

But would the signal strength really be there from A, through double glazing/brick wall, 50m of air, then another wall into B?

I already use a Linksys wireless/4port switch gateway. Would buying an access point really give me signal that distance? Don't forget, the window at B isn't facing the right direction.

As long as the wavelength is less than half the thickness of the glass is the signal will pass through it. Works for Radar so should be the same for this. So basically no problem.

 

[eggy]

As long as the wavelength is less than half the thickness of the glass is the signal will pass through it. Works for Radar so should be the same for this. So basically no problem.

Yeh I figured that. The reason I hesitate is because I'm pretty sure I tried a laptop just inside building B before and it couldn't get any signal from the router.

 

[scorge]

Ok so my plan of action is as follows then;

*Take laptop home with wireless card, use netstumbler (looks great) to try out reception in the designated PC room in building B
*If I reception at other side of house but not in PC room, buy an access point
*If I get reception in PC room (I'm sure I won't, tried this before I think) then buy antenna to boost signal

Cheers for the help so far!

* yep move around house see what the signal strength is
* an access point or you could buy a signal extender (i would probaly go for access point though) allows more flexibility
* antenna should boost signal just direct the antenna at the house and place the antenna externally on building A

also ethernet cable has a range of 95-100metres (depends if your using patch panels and outlets) have you thought of running cable from router/modem in building A to a hub/switch or even a wireless access point in Building B?

 

[Hawkwind]

also ethernet cable has a range of 95-100metres (depends if your using patch panels and outlets)

Doesn't that depend on the Cat type of cable you are using, screened etc. Token Ring was always better over long distances. But like most good engineering solutions died to the cheaper option.

The trouble with long cables are that they have to be screened and earthed properly or the cable will act as an aerial and you will start to get harmonics on the signal wires. I doubt cheap routers/hubs will do that effectively.


fyi on glass/wavelengh - found this on the web.

 

[eggy]

* yep move around house see what the signal strength is
* an access point or you could buy a signal extender (i would probaly go for access point though) allows more flexibility
* antenna should boost signal just direct the antenna at the house and place the antenna externally on building A

also ethernet cable has a range of 95-100metres (depends if your using patch panels and outlets) have you thought of running cable from router/modem in building A to a hub/switch or even a wireless access point in Building B?

Can't use cable, out of the question.

I think I'll buy this and put it in an upper room on the west side of the house (just a window in the way). That will get signal from the router I guess?

Then I can try it out in the PC room of B and see if i need antennas?

 

[scorge]

Doesn't that depend on the Cat type of cable you are using, screened etc. Token Ring was always better over long distances. But like most good engineering solutions died to the cheaper option.

http://www.homenethelp.com/web/explain/maximum-cable-length.asp

.

The trouble with long cables are that they have to be screened and earthed properly or the cable will act as an aerial and you will start to get harmonics on the signal wires. I doubt cheap routers/hubs will do that effectively.

true the cable could act as a "trailing wire" and soak up RF, but shieled cable should be ok.

 

[scorge]

Can't use cable, out of the question.

I think I'll buy and put it in an upper room on the west side of the house (just a window in the way). That will get signal from the router I guess?

Then I can try it out in the PC room of B and see if i need antennas?

sure use netstumbler though to check that you can receive a signal from the modem/router in building B from Builing A. If you get a good enough signal at the access point location you will not need antennas from building A. The Pc room should get a good signal from the access point.

 

[eggy]

sure use netstumbler though to check that you can receive a signal from the modem/router in building A, if you get a good enough signal you will not need antennas, as the Pc room should get a good signal from the access point.

Ok, I'll get the access point anyway, I'd prefer a decent signal.

Will try it out tomorrow and let you know

Given you as much rep as I can btw

 

[Hawkwind]

loved the homenethelp site.

Quote from the bottom:
Some people like to run cables underground between homes. If you run CAT5 cable, the homes have different 'ground potentials' and you will burn out network card durring any electrical storm. The solution is fiber! Run fiber betweeen the homes or run a pair of fiber converters on one end of the cable with a short fiber run. This will electrically separate the two homes.

A nice easy solution - "Run fibre!!" ROFL. The tools alone would cost more than most wireless solutions.

 

[eggy]

Only thing I'm worried about now is;

Linksys router -> Linksys access point -> Linksys PCI card sounds fine....

Netgear router -> Linksys access point -> Linksys PCI card ...hope that works too...

:s

 

[Dorin]

Only thing I'm worried about now is;

Linksys router -> Linksys access point -> Linksys PCI card sounds fine....

Netgear router -> Linksys access point -> Linksys PCI card ...hope that works too...

:s

netgear's interface is kinda shit compared to linksys :F well the ones i tested that is should work tho

 

[eggy]

Scorge, you are my hunny. Thanks for all your advice.

If it works, you are my new god. I shall be forever kissing your ass.

Ta!

Note: due to legal reasons, "kissing your ass" does not constitute a sexual contract. This will be discussed at a later date.

 

[scorge]

Scorge, you are my hunny. Thanks for all your advice.

If it works, you are my new god. I shall be forever kissing your ass.

Ta!

Note: due to legal reasons, "kissing your ass" does not constitute a sexual contract. This will be discussed at a later date.

no problems, you might have to play around with DHCP settings and IP addresses to get it all to work

 

[scorge]

on the same page as ebuyer, lets you know what you might have to do to set up the network for the AP to work with the router


http://www.ebuyer.com/customer/prod...lay=both&filter_order=rating_useful&offset=10

I have two of these, two WRE54G\'s and a WRT54G plus a cheap Origo ADSL modem 1 port router. This network supports four apartments quite happily and will support more. The two WAP54G\'s talk to each other via repeater mode, with a WRE54G talking to the WAP54G in remote mode, and the other WRE54G talking to the WRT54G (remote mode only). I also use Linksys high-gain antennas for better signal (highly recommended). The WRE54G\'s simply help to extend the range into the apartments, so that computers can be used wherever the uses wishes. Only two WAP54G’s can be used in any one sequence; so I got around this problem by using the WRT54G (wireless 4-port router) and plugging one of the WAP54G’s into it, so as to have one WAP in repeater mode and one in remote mode upstairs.

 

[eggy]

Ok, I configured then set up the access point in B. I then put wireless card in computer and put in the far corner of B. Woohoo, reception (only 40%, but still reception). However, it wouldn’t gain an IP address from the router…so I call Linksys who say it’s not compatible and I need a WRT54G router or another WAP54G access point to make it all work…

It seems Linksys are phasing out of most online shops; and my other router (Netgear) is not compatible with repeating, so I am tempted to go all out and get a new setup (if it would improve reception; although I guess not necessary).

Any recommendations? I’ve heard about Rangemax from netgear.

Or should I just get a WRT54G from somewhere and save myself the hassle! Know where I can get one from?

 

[eggy]

Found a cheap WRT54g, so will replace the router with that, use the previously bought wireless AP and network card and I'm live baby

 

[scorge]

Found a cheap WRT54g, so will replace the router with that, use the previously bought wireless AP and network card and I'm live baby

sorry to hear the netgear one cant act as a repeater

you should be ok withe the linksys stuff, i actually prefer the linksys stuff over netgear and belkin, last year i had to replace my belkin adsl router/modem 3 times as it overheated and fucked up, but thats what happens when you buy a cheap modem/router get cheap components :-(

 

[eggy]

sorry to hear the netgear one cant act as a repeater

you should be ok withe the linksys stuff, i actually prefer the linksys stuff over netgear and belkin, last year i had to replace my belkin adsl router/modem 3 times as it overheated and fucked up, but thats what happens when you buy a cheap modem/router get cheap components :-(

Aye

The Netgear didn't work at all for repeating.

The WAG54G (notice G in middle) was detected by the WAP54G (P in middle) access point, and it transferred the signal fine; but couldn't get dynamic IPs from the router; so didn't work. However, it proved the idea worked!!

So, tomorrow I'll plug in the new router and it should all work fine...now to improve the reception - would internal signal boosting antennas do much?

 

[scorge]

So, tomorrow I'll plug in the new router and it should all work fine...now to improve the reception - would internal signal boosting antennas do much?

depends i normally use antennas out side with a decent line of sight to my target, internally they can be a bit haphazard, although they will direct the signal so should impove, but it is debateable by how much

 

[eggy]

depends i normally use antennas out side with a decent line of sight to my target, internally they can be a bit haphazard, although they will direct the signal so should impove, but it is debateable by how much

Well the signal from A to B is actually pretty good. It picks up fine. So the signal problem is more from the Access Point in B to the computer, hence I was thinking internal amplification.

I'm not bothered about any transfer speed greater than 2mb/sec (speed of broadband) so it really doesn't matter; as long as the lowish signal doesn't affect my ping.

 

[scorge]

Well the signal from A to B is actually pretty good. It picks up fine. So the signal problem is more from the Access Point in B to the computer, hence I was thinking internal amplification.

I'm not bothered about any transfer speed greater than 2mb/sec (speed of broadband) so it really doesn't matter; as long as the lowish signal doesn't affect my ping.

the signal strength of about 40 decibles should be ok, you might find it easier if you install a better antenna on your Pc's not the access point, then again you could try it on both and see which is better.

 

[eggy]

the signal strength of about 40 decibles should be ok, you might find it easier if you install a better antenna on your Pc's not the access point, then again you could try it on both and see which is better.

Signal strength is at least 40dB at the computer, so should be ok then I hope. Will let ya know tomorrow. If not, I'll buy a few antennas