Wikileaks Apache Vid

[Zenith]

Which is not even remotely close to an argument to why these stuff is happening.


And I would not call, judged from the video, the actions as a mistake.

However, Im not on a hate-parade towards the soldiers in question, or even the USA military, while they should be hold responsible for their actions. The scary situation is the mentality that seems to be brought to all soldiers, and the actions people take towards eachother...

 

[Marc]

I think the Yanks fucked up big time, the more times I watch the vid the more I'm convinced the crouching guy had a camera.

Well done, this post sums it up exactly. You had the luxury of watching the video over and over and over and its taken you watching it over and over and over to be convinced that it was a camera. The people in the apache didnt have that luxury.

Anyway, rules of engagement satisfied in the first engagement. The shooting of the van is different.

 

[Ch3tan]

Well done, this post sums it up exactly. You had the luxury of watching the video over and over and over and its taken you watching it over and over and over to be convinced that it was a camera. The people in the apache didnt have that luxury.

Anyway, rules of engagement satisfied in the first engagement. The shooting of the van is different.

The people is the chopper did however have the luxury of their eyes, not the lower quality picture we saw. They circled enough to times to be clear on what was a camera.

 

[DaGaffer]

The people is the chopper did however have the luxury of their eyes, not the lower quality picture we saw. They circled enough to times to be clear on what was a camera.

I doubt that. The gun cameras are slaved to their helmets and the gunner will get a better view through the camera than through plexiglass; that tv image was probably magnified and the Apache was loitering quite some distance away (outside of RPG range).

 

[Jupitus]

that tv image was probably magnified and the Apache was loitering quite some distance away (outside of RPG range).

If you watch the full length footage you get several occasions where the zoom of that camera is changed, and it's magnification levels are very high indeed.

 

[Marc]

The people is the chopper did however have the luxury of their eyes, not the lower quality picture we saw. They circled enough to times to be clear on what was a camera.

They arent actually circling them that close. they are circling about a mile away so good luck telling the difference between an rpg and a camera from a mile away.

 

[TdC]

you can tell the approx distance from the shake in the cam when firing and the visible impact strikes. the muzzle velocity of the M230 gun is 792 m/s.

 

[tierk]

They arent actually circling them that close. they are circling about a mile away so good luck telling the difference between an rpg and a camera from a mile away.

They have cameras that can zoom up an ants butt hole from outer space and yet you can seriously say that the cameras they have on that chopper are incapable of giving a clear enough picture to tell the difference?

 

[Marc]

They have cameras that can zoom up an ants butt hole from outer space and yet you can seriously say that the cameras they have on that chopper are incapable of giving a clear enough picture to tell the difference?

Are you telling me that you are incapable of reading what Chetan said, which i was replying to? He said they had the luxury of being able to see with their own eyes, ergo, not using the video like we are. I pointed out that at the distance the chopper is circling it would be pretty damn impossible to tell the difference with the naked eye.

learn to read

 

[ECA]

WikiLeaks has another classified military video in their possession they plan to release in about a month. This time, Assange said, the public will see what happened during the controversial May 2009 NATO airstrike in Farah province, where Afghan officials say at least 150 civilians were killed.

Hmmmm.

 

[rynnor]

I think this is just how it is in any army with people in a potentially real combat situation high on adrenalin.

It doesnt sound good but its tough to get people to kill other human beings so they tend to become very off hand about it to protect themselves.

 

[Athan]

One thing I've not seen anyone else pick up on yet is that the helicopter crew was flatout *incompetent*. I'm talking about the "uh, I'm getting an azimuth error for some reason" line in there. Simply put that means the target through the camera was too far left/right of the direction the copter was pointing for the cannon to also point at it. So the pilot failed at basic combat flying skills as well ....

When I first watched this (the shorter edited version) I was thinking "OK, I can understand these guys are in a combat situation, hence some of the language used", but as time went on those thoughts evaporated to be replaced by "sheesh, the training of these combat pilots sucks".

 

[Tom]

They have cameras that can zoom up an ants butt hole from outer space and yet you can seriously say that the cameras they have on that chopper are incapable of giving a clear enough picture to tell the difference?

No, they don't have cameras that can do that, actually.

Take it from someone who regularly shoots on a 1600mm lens - at a mile's distance, through heat haze and dust in those conditions, its extremely difficult to tell the difference.

Besides which, I thought it was the case that some of the people in that group were carrying RPGs? Despite the presence of photographers?

 

[JingleBells]

 

[Athan]

For those that haven't seen a few updates on this:

US soldier apologises for attack on Iraq families - Times Online

Youtube: 2 soldiers in 'Collateral Murder' video apologize, 1/2: Ethan McCord interview - WikiLeaks Baghdad (2nd half of the video is linked at the end of the first).

Widow of Iraqi killed by US troops in video ‘accepts apology’ after letter - Times Online

That video interview does clarify one thing. The helicopters were monitoring the area due to an ongoing fire-fight in the area not far away. Their mistaken identification of the camera as an RPG and it being pointed down the road had a little to do with their actions (but personally I still think the whole thing shows shocking arrogance by the US military, not to mention poor training).

 

[Ch3tan]

BBC News - Wikileaks encryption use offers 'legal challenge'

more wikileaks news

 

[TdC]

Professor Diffie is half of the people behind the diffie-hellman key exchange stuff, amongst other things. he knows his shit, tbh.

 

[Marc]

Even more wikileaks news

BBC News - Wikileaks founder Julian Assange accused of rape

Im sure they will "leak" everything there is to know about these accusations on their website.

Dont hold your breath...

 

[Shagrat]

And now theyve changed their minds...bit dodgy...

BBC News - Swedish rape warrant for Wikileaks' Assange cancelled

 

[caLLous]

BBC News - Swedish rape warrant for Wikileaks' Assange cancelled

Guess they don't really think he did it then... Seems odd that they didn't have that discussion 6 hours ago.

edit - Shagrat

 

[Aada]

While you can't defend some of the actions from the Apache what the guy was holding does look like an RPG and looking really really dodgy peering around the corner.

Also do not forget that Soldiers are not POLICE they are trained to kill and paid to do that.

Firing on the van was awful but it's well known that the insurgents will go back and pick up weapons to make it look like these guys were civilians.

 

[Raven]

Fuck off bot.

 

[Ctuchik]

They have cameras that can zoom up an ants butt hole from outer space and yet you can seriously say that the cameras they have on that chopper are incapable of giving a clear enough picture to tell the difference?

they might, but how confident would YOU be to wait those few extra seconds while the possible RPG shooter lines up a shot?

they had a visual on the guy, thought he had an RPG and REALLY didn't want to risk finding out the hard way by wasting precious seconds fiddeling with their video equipment.

can you really blame them?

it doesn't take long for an RPG to travel a mile you know.

 

[Gumbo]

Effective range is 200m though, but continue your rant.

 

[DaGaffer]

Effective range is 200m though, but continue your rant.

Well, a bit more, 500M, but carry on.

 

[Gumbo]

Well, I would have thought they'd have been expecting the far more common RPG-7, but I could be wrong, either way, at an orbit of probably 2,000 metres the Apache would have been quite safe. This is all bollocks anyway, they were cleared to shoot people carrying RPG's, not necessarily only when personally threatened.

War is hell, whaddya gonna do?

 

[Raven]

Except they are most probably using the Type_69_RPG... With an effective range of 200m and a maximum flat trajectory of 1900 feet (less when fired up)

Anyway, as said, it didn't really look like either unless they come in fun size.

 

[DaGaffer]

Well, I would have thought they'd have been expecting the far more common RPG-7, but I could be wrong, either way, at an orbit of probably 2,000 metres the Apache would have been quite safe. This is all bollocks anyway, they were cleared to shoot people carrying RPG's, not necessarily only when personally threatened.

War is hell, whaddya gonna do?

Except they are most probably using the Type_69_RPG... With an effective range of 200m and a maximum flat trajectory of 1900 feet (less when fired up)

Anyway, as said, it didn't really look like either unless they come in fun size.

RoE would be always to assume its the worst possible threat, so they wouldn't assume anything about the type of RPG, although as you say the point is moot as the helicopter itself was never in danger and the orders were obviously to take out any shooters.