Why the **** should I bother to make raids?

[Aberrathien]

Well my Co5 raid just failed as ½ the ppl that signed up didnt bother to show up. And some of those ppl, are ppl that i counted on showing themselves. Ppl that i put my trust in...

How is it that ppl just dont give a FUCK for ppl that use their time, energy and patience to set up raids? Are ppl just so bloody selfish that they cant see any point in keppeing appointments? Its just plainly bloody rude to not show up or cancel with 1 hour or less ahead...

Im getting bloody fed up with this and im really considering if this game is worth playing at all...
Furthermore 31 ppl voted for the raid on this day and not even 15 signed up for it. So this also kinda shows ppls interest...

So this may be a flame thread or what u might call it, but this is really bothering me as i come ingame looking for a good raid and only find grief...

 

[Cylian]

20min to Germany vs Italy!

 

[pjuppe]

well, you shouldn't.

EDIT: for ppl that don't come (the first sounded abit harsh)

 

[Cadelin]

Around a year ago I tried to run a few raids. Some were fine but alot were far more trouble than they were worth.

The game is always changing. Nowadays alot of people have several "finished" chars so unless they want to go on certain raids they rarely need too.

The importance of doing things in a certain order has also been removed so even if you need to attend the raid its often possible to wait for a later one without effecting your chars development.

This is making planning raids on this forum with sign ups harder and harder. I just change the way I do things. Find some people with similar play times and enjoy doing the same as you. Then when you need extra people you can spam a few BGs, this forum, IRC, etc. If you don't find anybody its only 2 minutes work wasted.

 

[Plik]

20min to Germany vs Italy!

stfu?!

 

[Punj]

i'm not trying to flame yu or anything just wanting to point out it's the height of summer and it's roasting outside for most people in europe.i'm sure if it was winter your raid would have been full to the brim but try not to expect that this time of year you'll only get angry and upset.


cheer up man

 

[Kvadi]

I guess I'm one of the people this is aimed at, given that I posted a withdrawal about 30mins before this raid was due to start. If I could have given you more warning I would have, but given that I posted about 3 minutes after I got home from work, when I was already pushed for time, I feel I did what I could.

I do sympathise with you, but like it or not, things happen and priorities can change fast. We've all got real lives to get on with as well as playing this game. As a raid leader, the sooner you realise that the better for your health (judging by your post). When all is said and done, if it comes to a choice of pissing you off or pissing my family off, you're going to lose every time. I’m sorry, but that’s how it is.

If this means I won’t get selected for any of your future raids (of which I hope there will be many successful ones) then so be it. At least I tried to explain my position. Hope it doesn’t come to that though.

Krago

 

[mercury]

No-show

Actually, Krago, I don't think Aberr was getting at guys like yourself. If you sign up for something and then find you can't attend, and you tell the organiser - well, that's unfortunate but can't be helped. But if you sign up then just cba to turn up, then that makes you a w*nker, not to be trusted and unlikely to be invited again. But even that, bad as it is, is better than some little sh*t joining a long raid like C05, then dropping out half-way because your mate has turned up and you've decided to go to the pub instead. That way everybody gets pi$$ed off.
I can see Aberr's point, but I also would advise patience. Ive led around 11 c05 raids and NOT ONE ever started at the time I wanted it to. As it happens last night, we completed c05 and would have done Legion/UT as well, but I lagged into Legion's room and pulled the whole lot at once. We're trying again tonight.

If at first you don't succeed, build yourself another web...

 

[old.Whoodoo]

Group raids are always a problem, Ive had my fair share of no shows on the MLgrp raids ive led, normally I can muck through with other people in a last minute /as shout, but not always.

Keep going dude, but make yourself a ban list, where you can name and shame those who ruins your evenings.

 

[Mundokar]

Problem was Aber was on a tight schedule and wanted to complete in 2 hours max. If you have a signup raid were 1/2 the ppl dont show up it gets to your nerve yes.

But from my personal experience, Co5 raids never start at the time they are posted. And 2FG raids may seem nice to take care of all the agro, but a dedicated FG can run faster through that dungeon.

Next time start looking for replacements earlier. I did give you a couple of suggestions but you were to much focused on the balanced 2FG's. Eventually we ran with 14 chars+ a small host of bots and we did it (started running at 21 CET and finished (more or less ) at 0 CET)

Dont give up on leading raids Aber. Just take your time to do a raid. (and for a short course in frustration control ask Bluesky or Vavi )

 

[Ixoth]

I guess I'm one of the people this is aimed at, given that I posted a withdrawal about 30mins before this raid was due to start. If I could have given you more warning I would have, but given that I posted about 3 minutes after I got home from work, when I was already pushed for time, I feel I did what I could.

I do sympathise with you, but like it or not, things happen and priorities can change fast. We've all got real lives to get on with as well as playing this game. As a raid leader, the sooner you realise that the better for your health (judging by your post). When all is said and done, if it comes to a choice of pissing you off or pissing my family off, you're going to lose every time. I’m sorry, but that’s how it is.

If this means I won’t get selected for any of your future raids (of which I hope there will be many successful ones) then so be it. At least I tried to explain my position. Hope it doesn’t come to that though.

Krago

He aimed it to me as well. Read my reply to the co5 topic.

 

[varge]

me as well, but i got home past 22:00 cet due to heavy work :/

if you plan to do it again ill be more than happy to help out, again sorry for not showing up :/

 

[vavires]

Summer or not, its not an excuse.

It can happen that things changes for you and that you can't make it, but then u need to think a bit ahead for posting. There is a reason i dont bother with leading ml presteps lately(1 i dont need them ) but 2, ppl sign up and dont show up, Its the most frustrating thing of being a Raid leader.

Krago,
Yes ure right rl>game. But ppl (other ppl) who did show up and really wanted to complete the co5 raid have made time free to do this raid at this time. If i plan a raid or plan to go to a raid, i tell my wife in advance, look honey, this and that and that.

No flaming towards u, i like ya a lot , but u tend to cancel frequently. I know its very hard with ure family (reason u took a break) but think of abers position as well.

To end,
Every1, Think twice before posting on a raid. U might take away ppl's spots or mess the raid up completly. If u see a raid posted 1 week in advance, u might post, im intrested but im not sure yet... and post a confirmation a bit closer to the date itself.

Aber, Look up matey, no reason to feel down, it happens im afraid. I suggest u make a ban list, even for ppl canceling on you. And when ppl frequently cancel on you, ban em to. As they are not to be counted on and can end up messing ure right up.

Greets,
vav.

 

[Ixoth]

Summer or not, its not an excuse.

It can happen that things changes for you and that you can't make it, but then u need to think a bit ahead for posting. There is a reason i dont bother with leading ml presteps lately(1 i dont need them ) but 2, ppl sign up and dont show up, Its the most frustrating thing of being a Raid leader.

Krago,
Yes ure right rl>game. But ppl (other ppl) who did show up and really wanted to complete the co5 raid have made time free to do this raid at this time. If i plan a raid or plan to go to a raid, i tell my wife in advance, look honey, this and that and that.

No flaming towards u, i like ya a lot , but u tend to cancel frequently. I know its very hard with ure family (reason u took a break) but think of abers position as well.

To end,
Every1, Think twice before posting on a raid. U might take away ppl's spots or mess the raid up completly. If u see a raid posted 1 week in advance, u might post, im intrested but im not sure yet... and post a confirmation a bit closer to the date itself.

Aber, Look up matey, no reason to feel down, it happens im afraid. I suggest u make a ban list, even for ppl canceling on you. And when ppl frequently cancel on you, ban em to. As they are not to be counted on and can end up messing ure right up.

Greets,
vav.

He has made his list vav, and he added me to it as well lol

 

[old.Whoodoo]

He has made his list vav, and he added me to it as well lol

Shame, youre one of the ones I normally can count on in group raids Ix

 

[Aberrathien]

He has made his list vav, and he added me to it as well lol

U find it funny that u´ve screwed up 2 of my raids bcos u cba to come to raids uve signed up to? 1 of em u´ve even confirmed on... So DONT make me look like the bad guy here! :touch:

 

[Aberrathien]

Shame, youre one of the ones I normally can count on in group raids Ix

I thought so too, but took a dive on that 1. So well from now on i guess i shouldnt trust no1 except myself gamewise... A great attitude ppl have in here...

 

[old.Whoodoo]

Dont be put off m8, atm theres a lot of rl stuff going on that people wont want to miss, the world cup, that strange yellow sky ball that makes women remove most of their clothing, beer gardens full of totty and ofc beer itself.

Like the last bruiser raid I advertised, no one showed because Beckham and his minions were attempting to kick a small leather ball around the park for an hour and a half in the vain attempt to score what I beleive is called a goal, its like all good comedy, the secret is in the timing.

 

[Elisabeth]

Summer or not, its not an excuse.
Krago,
Yes ure right rl>game. But ppl (other ppl) who did show up and really wanted to complete the co5 raid have made time free to do this raid at this time. If i plan a raid or plan to go to a raid, i tell my wife in advance, look honey, this and that and that.

No flaming towards u, i like ya a lot , but u tend to cancel frequently. I know its very hard with ure family (reason u took a break) but think of abers position as well.

Well I guess you're lucky then with a wife like that Vav. But not every wife is like that. And if you already come home from work later then planned and then there is the family...
Ok I'm a woman, so turn it for me, but sorry my family would come first too when it comes to that.
I'm not saying I know the family situations of people involved here, only thing I can say is that I saw relations ending coz of games. Strong relations and in the beginning the partner took it all well, but after a while it can get frustrating for the partner also. I would really feel bad if my relation would end just coz of gaming, keeping the people in a game happy but estranging from my family.
And even it was close to the start time, Krago let know he couldn't come.
For Aber: even if people confirm there can always happen things in people's life at the last moment, even when they confirmed their spot.
Ofc I agree on the point about people signing up and then not showing up coz they cba. Make your list then, but how frustrating it is don't let them stop you from doing raids. Also an advice, up to you to take it or not, don't put a time schedule up for yourself, certainly for raids with a fixed amount of numbers. It might work a few times, but also it might not. And when not then it is only you that gets frustrated. Plan your raids when you have loads of time yourself and not like a few hours. For ml's you can kinda put a time on, but that is just due the fact there is a zerg, few people less wont affect it to much. And ofc if the ml leader did that raid alot before he knows what, where and how, that also speeds up. I'm not saying you don't know how to lead your raids, don't get me wrong in that, but you simply can't compare a zerg raid with a fixed amount of people raid.
So keep up the good work and try to think about the positive things instead of the negative. Easier said then done, but worth trying.

Greetz,
Elis

 

[Mundokar]

I thought so too, but took a dive on that 1. So well from now on i guess i shouldnt trust no1 except myself gamewise... A great attitude ppl have in here...

Aber take a deep breath and look at this post again. I think there a lot of people in here that are going out of their way to help you with advice. I think its great we have such a constructive post for once. A lot of people already apologized they weren't on your raid even explaining what went wrong. Something i havent seen in a veeerrryy long time.

 

[vavires]

Well I guess you're lucky then with a wife like that Vav. But not every wife is like that. And if you already come home from work later then planned and then there is the family...
Ok I'm a woman, so turn it for me, but sorry my family would come first too when it comes to that.
I'm not saying I know the family situations of people involved here, only thing I can say is that I saw relations ending coz of games. Strong relations and in the beginning the partner took it all well, but after a while it can get frustrating for the partner also. I would really feel bad if my relation would end just coz of gaming, keeping the people in a game happy but estranging from my family.
And even it was close to the start time, Krago let know he couldn't come.
For Aber: even if people confirm there can always happen things in people's life at the last moment, even when they confirmed their spot.
Ofc I agree on the point about people signing up and then not showing up coz they cba. Make your list then, but how frustrating it is don't let them stop you from doing raids. Also an advice, up to you to take it or not, don't put a time schedule up for yourself, certainly for raids with a fixed amount of numbers. It might work a few times, but also it might not. And when not then it is only you that gets frustrated. Plan your raids when you have loads of time yourself and not like a few hours. For ml's you can kinda put a time on, but that is just due the fact there is a zerg, few people less wont affect it to much. And ofc if the ml leader did that raid alot before he knows what, where and how, that also speeds up. I'm not saying you don't know how to lead your raids, don't get me wrong in that, but you simply can't compare a zerg raid with a fixed amount of people raid.
So keep up the good work and try to think about the positive things instead of the negative. Easier said then done, but worth trying.

Greetz,
Elis

I dont attack krago here, i just took him as an example.
And the only point is if ppl wanne come to the raids they should think further then the current situation they are on the day itself.

Aber has his life to, and he makes time to lead it, so the least ppl can do is IF they sign up + Confirm to actualy show up.

Ive just read the thread of aber, and i see the reason from krago, i understand it, and if it was my raid i wouldnt mind it, tho i would still be annoyed.

The only thing Raidleaders as Aber, Blue, myself and others ask is to think in advance before signing up. So we can host the raids we make time for.

Vav.

 

[Bluesky]

Having run just over 400 public raids I have some experience in the art of stress management involved with raids . The majority of my raids have been non-sign up ones which are (imo) totally different to sign-up raids like my Dragon Raids and have their own associated problems but the smaller number of sign-up raids (around 150ish) have given me A LOT more problems to deal with than everythign else in-game bar none. It comes down to something quite basic in the end and thats motivation.

I wont go over everything thats been posted above but there are some good points mentioned but suffice to say that nowadays I only run raids that: 1) I actually enjoy doing, or 2) I need something (steps/encounters/drops etc) that I can find similar like-minded people for.

The simple zerg-it-all-and-reach-objective raids are a walk in the park (given enough numbers ofc) compared to sign-up raids and its thsoe sign up raids that need the most planning/patience/dedication.

I have several criteria for people I "allow" on my raids which I will keep to myself but on a few occasions people have told me im too soft and let people get away with way too much but I guess thats just me.. being... me lol. I have a very small ban list with 3 people on it and thats it as I havent banned anyone in a long time and hope not to.

For me a raid is just a part of the game and the game is about fun/enjoyment/roleplay etc so if you aren't having fun then something is wrong. Someone said to me ages ago "if teh game feels more like work than actual work then stop doing it" and that statement rings true when i think back to all the many hours i spent making mod lists/group lists for raids that had gone stale but it was the people on them that made the raid worthwhile and fun for me and still do on most Dragon Raids. Notice thats the only public raid I run nowadays as even after 105 of them I still enjoy them.

So after all my babbling my points to you Aberr are:

If your not enjoying it then you need to have some other reason to be doing it or its simply annoys and frustrates you and you lose all motivation. If its a specific goal (drop/encounter etc) you need then be patient and stick at it bearing in mind lots of factors like time of the year and that people ALWAYS cancel no matter if they are regulars or have confirmed or jsut someone you like or respect. As Krago said personal life comes before game life and ALWAYS should.

As a raid leader we have to rely on people being unreliable and try to work around it. Its inevitable and I can only remember a single dragon raid where every one of the 23 people turned up on time and we moved out at the right time. Every other raid there have been cancellations in advance or people confirm then dont turn up or just dont turn up at all and to be known/respected we have to work around that expecting it EVERY raid we run then we cant be disappointed... only nicely surprised when it does all work as planned.

So, Aberr, try not to be too disheartened and do carry on the raids in whatever form you want to do them as imo Midgard has too few raid leaders and having one drop out is a bad thing BUT, and its a big BUT, remember what I said above about motivation.

Heres hoping for a more chilled out Aberr who has "fun" raids coming to a zone near us soon

 

[vavires]

whatever form you want to do them as imo Midgard has too few raid leaders and having one drop out is a bad thing

Correct!!

and ure not getting any younger blue

 

[Bluesky]

Correct!!

and ure not getting any younger blue

pfft I'm only 21......... with 14 years experience

 

[Aberrathien]

Having calmed down a bit now, I want to thnk ppl for their replies and for their trying to cheer me up.

To explain I have no problem with ppl having real lives and I understand that u cant plan your way out of everything, but as a RL, it is very frustrating not having the time to find a replacement.

So krago, no fire was meant to u, a cancellation is ALWAYS better than a no-show.

A suggestion for ppl that sign up for a raid and cant come to a computer and give RL´s a warning, then text/msn ur daoc buddy and let him do it on FH or contacting RL ingame with the news. This will let RL´s see that u have tried to do something and isnt disrespectful or plainly dont care. and that in the least will make the bloodpressure not rise as much...

 

[old.Whoodoo]

pfft I'm only 21......... with 14 years experience

Dare I ask of what!?!

 

[Mundokar]

Dare I ask of what!?!

He is just hiding the fact he is an old fart....oeps i am older

 

[Bluesky]

Dare I ask of what!?!

hmm *whistles innocently* while flatly refusing to be acknowledged as anything resembling "old" or "fartish"

 

[Chronictank]

Having calmed down a bit now, I want to thnk ppl for their replies and for their trying to cheer me up.

To explain I have no problem with ppl having real lives and I understand that u cant plan your way out of everything, but as a RL, it is very frustrating not having the time to find a replacement.

So krago, no fire was meant to u, a cancellation is ALWAYS better than a no-show.

A suggestion for ppl that sign up for a raid and cant come to a computer and give RL´s a warning, then text/msn ur daoc buddy and let him do it on FH or contacting RL ingame with the news. This will let RL´s see that u have tried to do something and isnt disrespectful or plainly dont care. and that in the least will make the bloodpressure not rise as much...

wait till you get a bit of condfidence and decide to lead rvr raids ><
people show up most the time. it's getting them to go in the right direction thats the problem

 

[Tesla Monkor]

Your ability to lead has nothing to do with people signing up and not showing. That's just inexcusable rudeness on their part.

Even if they can't make it, it is only normal to let the organised know it asap, and if you really want to be a gentleman, (gentlewoman), you provide him with a replacement so he doesn't have to deal with your problem.