why isnt mal us style?

[mavericky]

Cave has to be used well, but isnt a waste of points, a great deal of the time in RvR there is not a healer in my group, so where does the CC come from, Cave AOE root. This doesnt stop casting classes, so to stop our tanks getting nuked to death, shaman can used ranged attacks (bolts and DD) from range, both from the cave line.

Shaman also dont have any form of instant get out of jail cards (no instant Mezz stun and heal) unlike all the other 1x healing classes, the one thing they do have to assist them is the PBAOE snare of which the first one is lvl 27 cave, and this has been a life saver in both PvP and PvE. PBAOE snare is also the best way for a shaman to kill enemy tanks using the snare to kite them.

Also where would you prefer a shaman to put their spec points, in mend? This is the weakest line we have, only 2nd lvl res and no good heal spells

Aug is good but there is no point taking it past the high 30's as you would only be a bot, plus you would cap your stats and not have enough conc to cast all the buffs you need to.
Trying to run around in RvR with no means to defend yourself as an Aug shammy does not sound fun

 

[bloody]

Originally posted by mavericky
Cave has to be used well, but isnt a waste of points, a great deal of the time in RvR there is not a healer in my group, so where does the CC come from, Cave AOE root. This doesnt stop casting classes, so to stop our tanks getting nuked to death, shaman can used ranged attacks (bolts and DD) from range, both from the cave line.

i'm a thane another gimped class, i got a DD every 30 secs, that means i basicly can only use it once per encounter, same goes for your DD/bolt really, that's not gonna keep anyone disturbed although it is 20 sec, i got an insta dd as well and really that insta and that castable wont do much for disturbing.

having a healer here would be way better, they could ae mezz or stun. you shouldn't base your class beeing good upon another class beeing absent, if so rather roll that other class

Originally posted by mavericky
Shaman also dont have any form of instant get out of jail cards (no instant Mezz stun and heal) unlike all the other 1x healing classes, the one thing they do have to assist them is the PBAOE snare of which the first one is lvl 27 cave, and this has been a life saver in both PvP and PvE. PBAOE snare is also the best way for a shaman to kill enemy tanks using the snare to kite them.

that's not really a good thing not having an isnta get out of jail or QC, and your insta pbaoe is a disease not a snare, might be a little bit of snaring on disease as it' multi purpuse but it's not much. that spell is a great stealther uncovering tool though, so only spec for lowest to keep the power cost down, and speccing some cave to keep dmg variancy of dots is fair enough as well as having a dd/bolt for disturbing a little. just not much i'd say, or none

Originally posted by mavericky
Also where would you prefer a shaman to put their spec points, in mend? This is the weakest line we have, only 2nd lvl res and no good heal spells.

well the spec line heal spells are all slower at meadium lvl, so speccing for less dmg variancy on your large baseline heal is really what you do, getting second ress, cure disease and cure poison. as well as friggs beeing an exelent spell, and the group version of it. however if i was a shaman i'd mainly spec aug and secondary i'd spec mend, but keep them pretty close. tertiary i'd have a little cave spec.

Originally posted by mavericky Aug is good but there is no point taking it past the high 30's as you would only be a bot, plus you would cap your stats and not have enough conc to cast all the buffs you need to.
Trying to run around in RvR with no means to defend yourself as an Aug shammy does not sound fun .[/B]

Buffs really make a lot of a difference, you are right that speccing high 30 with some buff RA's will cap you, you could however go lvl 42 for getting last endurance regen and the acuity buff which wont cap runnies, also there's resist buffs to get.

getting the last to dbl buffs is a waste as the second last ones will cap you and you have the ones before that as well if you don't spec all the way, giving you cheaper conc ones as well.



my spec would prolly be 27 mend 27 cave and 38 aug, i'd remove variancy on heals and dots with items and realm lvls, get group friggs and the one friggs after that, and get first insta pbaoe disease. i'd almost cap with my dbl buff, and i'd prolly get mastery of the arcane 1. i'd get all resist chants at lvl 2 as well. i'd have the lvl 4 end regen as well, the group version which saves a lost of casting time.

if i was to deal dmg, i'd prolly roll another class

 

[mavericky]

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''same goes for your DD/bolt really, that's not gonna keep anyone disturbed although it is 20 sec, i got an insta dd as well and really that insta and that castable wont do much for disturbing."
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Except they are splitting the DD and bolt onto 2 separate timers (both 20 seconds) and we also have a single target dot to use on casters

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"having a healer here would be way better, they could ae mezz or stun. you shouldn't base your class beeing good upon another class beeing absent, if so rather roll that other class"
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No, I set up my character to be flexable to cover a variety of different situations, that was just one of them, cave helps with this. Having a healer would be better, but healers can get killed or have a mob on them, even they arent infalible



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"that's not really a good thing not having an isnta get out of jail or QC, and your insta pbaoe is a disease not a snare, might be a little bit of snaring on disease as it' multi purpuse but it's not much. that spell is a great stealther uncovering tool though, so only spec for lowest to keep the power cost down, and speccing some cave to keep dmg variancy of dots is fair enough as well as having a dd/bolt for disturbing a little. just not much i'd say, or none "
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I agree that not have a get out of jail free card is a bad thing, didn't say it wasn't. The PBAOE disease includes a 15% snare, what it can do is drop anyone chasing you out of speed, and interupt casters you pass. What it doesnt do if uncover stealthers as it doesnt damage the stealther, so they dont appear.



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"well the spec line heal spells are all slower at meadium lvl, so speccing for less dmg variancy on your large baseline heal is really what you do, getting second ress, cure disease and cure poison. as well as friggs beeing an exelent spell, and the group version of it. however if i was a shaman i'd mainly spec aug and secondary i'd spec mend, but keep them pretty close. tertiary i'd have a little cave spec."
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Frigs are a fantastic out of battle heal, for after it is all over and are the most mana efficient heal in the game for this, but in combat they only tick once every 14 seconds, so they dont cut it. I would agree that you would be daft not to spec to get the cure poison and disease, with at least some form of frig (you will need cure disease for the 30 minute plague in the new RvR dungeons)

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if i was to deal dmg, i'd prolly roll another class
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Yep, if that was all I wanted to do I would roll a different class, but you are missing the point, a shaman is a jack of all trades, he can Buff, Heal and deal some damage, maybe not excel at the healing and the damage doing, but he does make a difference in a battle.

Back to my original point, Cave helps with this, but then again, I guess you already know this as you have said you would spec it upto 27 even in your spec.

 

[Azal]

Don't think they are argueing that cave isn't worth speccing, the point they are raising is that it gives rise to the (usually) not so helpful AE DOT. Which is the thing that a lot of the latest 'malmo crew' shaman tend to get rather carried away with in rvr.

Not by any means tarring all shaman with the same brush (I know some great shammies) but the trend lately is cave spec for ae dot, forget about healing and rooting, just spam ae dot's all over during fights, which as already described above generally isn't very helpful.

I've lost count of the times I've seen 3/4 of the mezzed albs/hibs suddenly spring back into the fight after being AE DOT'd, and seeing the same shaman carry on dotting all over while grp members are relying on them for the odd heal or so is quite irritating.

Hell I've seen one shammy (no names) sit there and spam ae dot so much during a fight he went totally oop and the other 6 ppl in the grp (yours truely included) all eventually died without being healed once, or frigged or anything, then to cap it off the same shaman regened some pow then merrily went back to dotting ppl without giving a second thought to ressing anyone else.

I love a good shammy, but recently there's more 'not good' shammies around, and obviously it's a lot easier to notice ppl doing things which aren't helping than the 1/3 (total random number) of shammies that are doing something other than spamming dot's.

 

[doneagle]

Originally posted by Azal

I love a good shammy, but recently there's more 'not good' shammies around, and obviously it's a lot easier to notice ppl doing things which aren't helping than the 1/3 (total random number) of shammies that are doing something other than spamming dot's.

I understand why some shamans are doing this. If you would see my realm points during a fight, you would too... If we have a fg and lets say kill 8 or 9 albs without me doing dmg ( and when i'm only healer i don't use cave ) i get between 30-80 points. So i understand why some peeps say: lets do dmg and get rp's... only problem is that dead you don't get any too , wait till rezz and heals get rp's, all shammys will start to do those ... bugger for the peeps who already did.

In my early years, whenever i saw an alb/hib i dotted away ( pre 40 ) and played like a runie, on camps i would often go to front line to bolt away. ( makes you a prime target cause they think you are a runie ffs ). But i learned a lot during my pve groups and rvr groups between lvls 40-45 and these things you can't learn when you're just doing us style in lair. ( back to topic, wihaaa ) . And now i stand back in a fight, spamming heals, buffs, rezz ( even during fights if mana permits ), i root when on casters so they can sprint away, ...

I see shaman's who play very well in PvE but when it's in RvR they just lose it... I think the low Rp income and the lag in big fights are the main reasons for that.

It's all about "playing" your class during RvR, not "hitting buttons to deal some kind of damage".

I rest my case for now, i hope i'm not offending someone, i'm just telling my views and my opinions on this issue... and now back to topic again

 

[bloody]

exactly Azal and Corona. that's unfortunately the trend of most new shammies around, which is what i'm frankly really annoyed about. espec seeing as each time an AE dot breaks a mezz(and it's almost always ae dots) my mjollnirs gets breaked, and although i have my mjollnir on my bar, it's deffo not a spam key for me for leeching RP's i use it as utility when it can be used. and ofc like mjolnir there's utility for AE dots as well great utility as they pack a lot of dmg. but now a days it's only a few shammies actually using all their ability's and by doing that becomming that jack of all trades that is so handy to have, instead they just become AE dot spammers. this i highly contribute to US style in malmo

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

If the enemy is rooted rather than mezzed though, nothing wrong with a nice area disease which won't break the root

I have seen a lot of shammies around. They seem to be the new Thanes. Still some very good ones too before some of the original shammies like Malenka start to get upset. (Granite, Gerta and Cookiemonster also some of the best shammies I've seen around anywhere).

Offtopic: every time I log on my shammy the first thing I try to do is summon Junior. Go figure

I think any area effect that wont kill enemies fast is a liability to the team using it generally, except under certain circumstances like keep assaults/defence.

I'm a bit touchy about mez breaking you know, but thats Dark specced SMs for you

There's something I don't think has been considered very much though: in the months after the initial European release of DAoC, it was viable to RvR if you weren't level 50. You weren't going to get swarmed by high con enemies all the time. People could RvR effectively as they levelled and learn it that way. When they hit 50 they weren't new at it.

Now though, unless you are 40+ and you show your face on the frontier, you aren't going to survive very long at all unless you have lots of high level friends with you, and even then the Emain Assassin Gauntlet you have to run will mean welcome to oneshotsville most of the time.

So a lot of people simply don't RvR til they are approaching level 50. Not talking about BG because even there, not many use them after they outgrow Thid.

I don't think a lot of the inexperience on how to handle team situations can be entirely blamed on Malmo US style / area effect levelling though it will be a factor.

Would be interesting to ask each tank in Malmo as they ding 50 if they know how to operate a ram

 

[mavericky]

Originally posted by doneagle


I understand why some shamans are doing this. If you would see my realm points during a fight, you would too... If we have a fg and lets say kill 8 or 9 albs without me doing dmg ( and when i'm only healer i don't use cave ) i get between 30-80 points. So i understand why some peeps say: lets do dmg and get rp's... only problem is that dead you don't get any too , wait till rezz and heals get rp's, all shammys will start to do those ... bugger for the peeps who already did.

It is my belief, and correct me if I am wrong, that the group share equaly realm points within there group (see a old sanya grab bag for the info on this in the camelot herald) The only variation will be that a low level will get a lower proportion of a groups RP's as they are meant to be less worth and have contrubuted less to a kill.

For example, if you have 2 people in a group, a 50 Shaman and a 40 tank. The tank kills an Alb, the shaman didnt do anything to help or heal. The Shaman will get far more RP's for that kill than the lower level.

Example 2, 50 tank, 50 shammy in a group together. Shammy afk again, Tank kills an Alb, both will get equal RP's as both are meant to be equal worth to group.


The only time when you get less/no RP's is if you are healing an ungrouped tank while he is killing an alb.

There is very rarely a time where I use my AOE dot in open battlefield RvR as it negates all attempts at CC for the next 20 seconds and will most likely end up in a dead group. At the end of the day DEAD = 0 RP and pissed off group who want to know why all Mezz's and roots were broken

 

[Damon_D]

edited out due to Makwaerk being told by enough peopel that Cave is not wasted on a shaman

 

[Tesla Monkor]

If I remember correctly, the total amount of RPs earned by your group is divided by it's members, and then clamped. (Where appropriate.)

If your full group only gets 80rps/person that means the total amount of RPs coming into your group isn't great. (I'm guessing that is most likely because you're either

a) Camping the PK so the kills are not fresh, and/or
b) You're part of a zerg of some sort, so the RPs are spread among many others.)

Group up and run around in places where there are no zergs. It will do wonders for your RPs, trust me.

Spamming AE Poison all over the place does get your more RPs, but it's also pretty stupid, it gets you and everyone else killed, shows a lack of respect for the hard work of other classes.

To be honest, I haven't seen any shammies use AE Poison in Malmo. (I hate the US style of pulling.. US Style XP = crap. Pulling faster only results in a larger pile of crap. You can't pull fast enough to make up versus the Euro style. The only use US Style has is killing time until you can get into a decent group at Yar.

 

[Rolo]

 

[Milkshake]

Why can't you have an EU list system at Yar, and a US kill-em-all system at the lair?

Best of both worlds....if your waiting for the list, you can still xp!

 

[Nonnier]

imo US style started out great (the very first one was fantastic).
then it became a dull,low exp hell hole.

The classic comment "its speed not exp that counts" is a load of crap when u get 500,000 per pull due to leechers, which are impossiable to find in a crowd of 32 peeps

the also consent whining in cg did my head in, "pick up drops" or "pullllllllllll" when the caster is out of mana.

ok, thats me done 4 now

 

[Skrad]

I totally agree with Reinnon here.... US style was great for the first couple of days and then the leechers found out that if they waited till everyone else had aggro and did a big nuke, they got lots of xp at no risk. That was the ultimate in leeching and was bound to lead to the downfall of US style. So, leechers... well done! You've spoiled it for everyone!