why isnt mal us style?

[haggered]

left mal at lvl 45, did abit of rvr etc, went back and we gone back to eu style, i have a question why? its like going back to living in caves after living in houses. seriously it sucks ass, if you in mal start asking for us style.

if i missed something then beat the crap out of me, but i really dont get it.

ok cya around, cheers

 

[Brannor McThife]

Probably because EU style teaches the dumb ass Thanes not to AE, teeches you CC with runies/shammies/healers, and teaches you to work as a team and actually pick up the loot.

-G

 

[nobrot]

If they cant do all those things by the time they get to lvl 40, then five days of EU style in Malm wont teach them Brannor..

Haggered is right... Eu style blows, US style rocks..

 

[thorungla]

Its more likely to be because the US style was being called a free for all and resulting in 6+ grps at the lair as well as soloing/afk leechers amongst the masses.

The resulting xp rates were more often than not lower than half a bub an hour for most grps. You should expect 1 bub an hour rate in a normal EU group, and in a well organised US style without the above problems far more than this.

IMO it all came about because of the 'lists', the masses generally disliked having to maybe wait hours before getting a group. Yet most would not attempt to organise their own group or even accept other peoples suggestions of grouping up elsewhere.

Another issue with the US style method, apart from the previously mentioned lack of any skill development soon to be needed in rvr, is the distribution of loot. Having levelled in malmo with most class types and each of the many 'methods' over the months. My last character emerged with less than 1/3 the wealth of others. Not such a big issue you might think, but with the cost of crafted weapons and the soon to arrive SC it will be for many.

 

[Ardrias_Mid]

I prefer US style. I hate watching people sit on lists waiting, it sucks major ass.

Oh, and EU style teaches you how to play etc: Well, if you want to learn how to play your class, go someplace else than Malmö.
Malmö is, has always been, and will always be, a place for fast exp, and nothing else. Exception being Lake, H stones, and other similar areas.

Regarding loot: A few hours in DF grants more coin than a day in Malmö.

When exping my runie, doing US style, I got killer exp even at level 49. It's all about making even groups, and no leechers.

The style itself is good, the assholes not being able to understand how to put it to use, are not.


But I can see how making people sit on lists instead is good for Midgård, I really do

Oh, and last, AE-pulls, or just regular fast pulls, are much more fun than your standard pull, mez, kill.

 

[stu]

US style was tried for a little while. It worked awesomely when everyone played fair - if you didn't have full groups of casters nicking the xp while the tanks in the other groups served as meatshields, you didn't have idiots leeching out of groups and screwing everyone else (Saaug prime example btw, you'd think he'd want to make at least one of his alts not universally hated), etc. Unfortunately those times when they didn't happen were about 1% of the time, and the people who were playing fair got pissed off and stopped doing US style.

 

[old.Gromnir]

EU style: is the reason why some many people have highlevel alts, while sitting in line for a place in a group they had time to level 3 more chars to 30 each. Loot might be good at this point so cheers about that, but if you are after hard char go farm green cons in Darkness its sure to spawn over 300gold in something like 2 to 3 hours. Teaches CC ... I damn well hope people know those skills some time before they enter this place, less they have to learn it at the cost of dead mates.

US style: Fast, quick exp, tons of loot. So why dont we do it, first of all a lot of people are locked on the idear that the only place after 40 to gain exp is malmo and that that you have to sit in line ... sad but true. While it is posible to go someplace else to exp and gain great exp pasted 40 else it might take a tad longer and you might get to see places and it might teach you some skills in killing diffrent mobs ... I know this dosent sound to great so back to malmo.

Well here we are back in malmo and look there are a bunch of guys doing US style i'll just join and hope for a group later .... NO!!! Wrong bad middie, lame middie. Get a girlffiend or something leeching is lame end of story.

Oh look there is a bunch of guys that are doing US style and ... WEEEE I got group ... i'll just stand back here doing noghting .... WRONG.

... Cool a goup i'll head up and the rock and do /stick and attack and kill lots of mobs and get tons of exp, so ferk loot. Almost there.

Once you get a group find your role ... no rather know your rule dont expect people to tell you what to do just do it. Melee get on the damn rock or around it but stay close once mobs are pulled. Caster do you thing ... and please do it in ae style if you can. Seers do you thing you know what you can do, just dont stun the mobs 20 yards from the rock if you stun do it once they hit the rock. This way the melee is fast ans short and dosent take to much running around.
And make sure that once every 2nd pull one from each group runs around like a mad clicking all the loot bags, this servers two things: 1: More loot for the people! 2: ever tried to run toward a place where people are killing mobs, ever see those little bags load before the chars do ... less bags is less gfx to load and might help to lessen lag when 20+ people hit ae at the same time.



And I still dont get it why Thanes cant sure their ae's, they where born with them and if they are a good thene they knwo when to cast the damn thing. Have a little faith in them, they might suck big time in rvr with their ae but they can do a nice amount of damage with a well placed ae in PvE.


Now Go do your thing in malmo ... i'll come around at some point again, but for now im playing with blue con mobs in varulvhemn at level 46 ... they give a nice 15mill + exps

 

[Siven]

I'd rather have US style than sit on my arse for 3 hrs like i have been doing on a damn list.

 

[Fafnir]

Well you've seen a change in mids rvr style lately, when all thoose us malmö mids come out of hiding. Well it works with a big number of us, but not when half of them run thinking aggro will drop when out of reach.

Eu style is great for the good of the realm. People learn to play their chars, make them more effective in rvr, with mezzing, stunning etc.

Mids rvr have dropped in quality lately too. But saw in our frontier this evening, most old players how we kicked alb/hib asses back to their own realm. US style dont work so good there, since the enemy casters will nuke back. And enemy tanks will go for our casters/healers then we are screwed.

 

[klavrynd]

I don't want to come over arrogant (fuck it really), but you clearly see the difference between daoc "generations". Most new players allmost never solo, and try to get to malmo as soon as possible. I'm sorry to say but you're breeding noobs like that.

I've ran into lvl 50's that didnt know how to get to raumarik
lvl 50ies that didnt know what their styles do
lvl 50ies that ae after the slim healers we have got a nice ae mezz off

etc...

agreed, malmo is good when you're in need of fast exp, but the balance quick exp <-> knowing game mechanics and your character is easily tilted.

Mids rvr have dropped in quality lately too. But saw in our frontier this evening, most old players how we kicked alb/hib asses back to their own realm. US style dont work so good there, since the enemy casters will nuke back. And enemy tanks will go for our casters/healers then we are screwed.

couldn't have said it better

 

[haggered]

after reading some the comments, i kinda see where your going with knowing your class and role. but at lvl 40+ most ppl know there role. the rvr comment makes some sense but if you solo then surly it makes you less rvr adaptable because you dont work as part of a team and dont tackle more than 1 mob at a time. in rvr there is normally more than 1 hib/alb at a time. but seriously us style was alot better how about us style max 3.5 grps. there is 1 universal list and each grp gets at least 1 seer and 1 rm/sm to even out exp. sounds good? probally wont work, well depends how much ppl want exp. but just thought i would post another comment after being on list for 3.5 hours, then joining a small H-stones grp.
so thats about it really, um in fact that is it

cheers

 

[Brannor McThife]

Pre-40, tanks learn jack shit CC. And they quickly forget how to tank once they take up US style.

At Yar, I learnt to cover the healers/mages with a handy slam. Pre-40, you don't get a decent stun. EU style, you get tactical awareness. Watching what those 4 mobs are doing, make sure that if you're the MA, you pick your target and that the main taunter gets aggro. You learn to judge the length of Mezzes and react accordingly. You learn to stay out of reach of rooted mobs.

US style, you learn jack shit about playing as a group. Not surprised there are so many L50 healers spec'ing out of PAC.

-G

 

[Damon_D]

US style sucks arse.. permanently...

If peopel go US style whilst im there, I'll log or leave for Yar..To many leechers.. and " WE only want surpress sm and rm nukers in our group cause we want supa xp and all the loot so feek the rest " peopel around..If ever peopel learn not to leech and build balanced groups..yes then maybe its nifty xp , until then its a waste of my time, and I'll rather play an alt than waste my time on it...Nuff Said

 

[-dewey-]

I think you should be asking 3 questions;

a) Which style is pumping out level 50's faster?
b) Are the level 50's experienced?
c) Which is better, 100 level 50's who zerg or 50 level 50's who use there abilities as best as they can.

I think the answer is obvious. Imagine this;

10 experienced mids meet 20 unexperienced hibs, hibs mez first and get all 10 mids, someone aoes the mids before the meleers even get close, healer insta aoe stuns, all the druids group purge and all the non druids hit normal purge, healer insta aoe mezzes, mids pick hibs off one by one, starting with healers/casters and barely get damaged. Even if a few don't hit purge to early it won't matter because 1-3 stray un mezzed hibs will stand no chance agaisnt the combinded attacks of 10 mids.

Sure US style might be good while your actually in malmo but having to learn how to play your class where it matters the most (RvR) is not as good as learning when you can afford to make mistakes.

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

PBAE xp is the fastest xp in most hunts which is why most peeps want to do that. Strangely, you can pbae xp without pbae, but thats a different story.

Wouldn't want to do exactly the same thing for 42 levels though and Malmo is often unpleasant because of the pressure it seems to put people under to get xp as fast as possible and the effect in turn it has on their behaviour.

I'm not going to blather on about hunt locations, but one of the reasons people are in Malmo a lot is because you have a higher chance of getting a group even if your guild or friends haven't organised something.

The reason US Style falls out of favour is because of the leechers that spoil it for everyone else. I've had a lot of stories from guildmates about unpleasant incidents to do with this and though I like US Style I'm wary of it.

 

[old.Enigma]

US can be good exp. Too many selfish SoB's and no organisation.
The level of manners is atrocious. EU style becomes a nice social event compared to the lame attitudes in US style. Groups are never balanced and quiclkly end up with one uber group and one level 40 group. Only one group is getting exp. Eu from what I last saw runs like this.

List based. This means G1 and G2 often equal out in exp at times. with g1 having slight edge. G1 is 47+ starting entry except seers and pbt. A 49 sb who joins g2 will not push out a level 47 sb already in g1 etc. G1 will only keep balance right not look to max exp at all costs. PPl 47+ in g2 move up to g1 as and when they can be accomodated.

Soon as list is 16 with the right g1 potential those on list are encouraged to start up lair group.

What makes me laugh is some of the selfish SoB's.

Day 1 xxxxxx is grouped in G1 at Yar

yyyyy logs in shouts why dont we do US style.
xxxxx shouts no thanks set it up your self.

Day 2

xxxxx not in yar group 15th on list shouts Why dont we do US style. Come on waiting sucks etc.


Antyone else seen that. I have had good and crap exp doing US style but the aggressiveness and greediness of it is much more
apparent than EU style.

To me its simple there are enough to do both. If your on the list and dont like it do something about it. Not every wants to play the game US style.

 

[SilverHood]

easy way would be to have controled US style

So only fg's xp. If you can make a full group, you can join the xp. Everytime a new fg is added, pull rate should be increased too
So if there are 4 fg's, then the pull rate should be 2 or 3 times that of the original 2 fg's.

 

[old.Enigma]

That would be a good idea. For those who dont want to do US setup a Yar group with a list

 

[stu]

Originally posted by SilverHood
easy way would be to have controled US style

So only fg's xp. If you can make a full group, you can join the xp. Everytime a new fg is added, pull rate should be increased too
So if there are 4 fg's, then the pull rate should be 2 or 3 times that of the original 2 fg's.

Great idea. Now if we just had a way of enforcing that...

 

[SilverHood]

simply call it EU style, and say that no single leechers are allowed

if people still leech, report them to GOA for breaking the CoC

problem sorted

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

For US Style ideally you want approximately 1 puller for every 2fg that are present to keep the rate up. With less than that the pullers start dying since they are under pressure to get enough mobs to keep the xp rate acceptable.

Generally speaking I've seen the pullers dying constantly and eventually giving up since they get little help and no sympathy. Its one of those times I feel really bad for the hunters and runies who are working their asses off :/

I will say though that I believe most of the people present at these times fall into the high-level-noob category.

Its almost impossible to control the groups for US Style, because with so many people there its completely chaotic. The only way I think you could do it is if a few guilds planned to do it in advance and coordinated it between them. That would work. then you can easily identify the leechers and problems. Otherwise, you just have to live with it.

 

[Shabs]

I've ran into lvl 50's that didnt know how to get to raumarik
lvl 50ies that didnt know what their styles do
lvl 50ies that ae after the slim healers we have got a nice ae mezz off

Heh, I ran into a lvl 50 in Odins gate once, that wanted to go back to Emain to rvr because he didnt know our frontier well at all. He also had to be guided from Fens to Blend to Nott then Odins

 

[Cadire]

Bending the topic slightly....

My map of Malmo shows it to be quite a big place. Does anyone ever go anywhere else apart from Lair/Yar? Or does the fact that the mobs are so high level rule this out?

 

[Makwaerk]

I was in malmo a week ago with my healer, got into the yar group (not that hard for a lvl 47 healer )

I was not doing very well that day, was tired and my mezzes did not stick very well.
My group LOVED me. I told them I did not think I was doing very well, but then they started to tell me horror stories about their previus healers.

I have to agree that ppl are not learning there class very well anymore. Healers that can't mezz and can't heal does more dmg then good.

Think the worst thing about malmo us style is that they learn Shaman to Ae dot.

I am sorry to say but the cave linie is quite shitty, and really not worth speccing in imo.. if you wanna do dmg roll a runie

 

[doneagle]

Originally posted by Makwaerk

Think the worst thing about malmo us style is that they learn Shaman to Ae dot.

I am sorry to say but the cave linie is quite shitty, and really not worth speccing in imo.. if you wanna do dmg roll a runie

ouch, that hurts... Corona was doing well with her aoe dot and normal dot before Malmo, and knows when to use it ( i love to run behind a group of hibs and dot there casters ). So don't generalize your opinion about shaman's bebcause you got a few in your group who aoe'd everything. You then can say the same about thanes...

Every class can be played badly!! But ( i hope ) it's the minority.

and about the cave line... interrupting casters with a critical dot of 230 each tic really rulez... they fall dead 4 or 5 times trying to cast.

aoe disease saved my life 1 to 1 many times... the 15% snare and not needing end as a shaman is a lifesavior. aoe root is as usefull as the aoe mezz imo. When no healer, i'm the cc , root all i c and when the hib/albs casters detect they can still cast ( you should see how long it takes for some of those to see they are rooted and not mezzed and still can cast) they are already picked out and killed by the tanks.

So don't start me about shaman's.

 

[old.Tbird]

As one of those still in Malm I have to say it has deteriorated a lot since my first time through. I entered this time at 41 when US style was still running and have to agree it does have a lot of appeal, just the ability to pick up a group for an hour when it suits you is a godsend. Unfortunately though there is a core of people who don't understand that constant low exp is better than none at all.

This is my observations over the last weeks.

US Style
Too many under 40's appeared trying to jump the bandwagon - at 38 I doubt you can even hit then, go to Spind like we all did.

Too many people trying to make uber groups - why should a tank getting 4-5m a pull take a beating while groups of 7 casters/1 healer are taking 5 times that amount. (the same groups who mezz the add out of tank range and wont pull)

Old Style
A serious lack of patience while a group sorts itself. I'm fed up to the teeth with low 40's shouting 'pulllllll' in cg when the main group has no tanks/pbt/peeler/puller.

An equal lack of patience when we are one of the above key players short. It seems that people want to walk into a premade group with no more input from thereselves than bashing on the mob. When you have 15 people and are only a seer short why not actually wait for 5-10mins and see if one logs in rather than give it the usual whinge followed by 'hope it's better tomorrow'.

And now a general point, every well run group i've been in has been controlled by one of the 'old hands' playing an alt. When the current crop learn some patience and organisation skills maybe it will stabilise again.

 

[Freia]

Originally posted by Makwaerk
I told them I did not think I was doing very well, but then they started to tell me horror stories about their previus healers.

Like the backup messer i once had that thaught his stun button was mes? :|

Anyway.. damn im almost starting to miss malmö when i hear so much talking about it
Believe it or not i had some great times down there. When the group was nice and we had lots of non-serious chatting time just flied.
Maybe i should come down there and ding 50.5 lol

 

[mavericky]

Originally posted by Makwaerk

Think the worst thing about malmo us style is that they learn Shaman to Ae dot.

I am sorry to say but the cave linie is quite shitty, and really not worth speccing in imo.. if you wanna do dmg roll a runie

Excuse me! But comments like that are a little uncalled for, Cave isnt the best line in the world, but it isnt the worst either, a shaman who knows when to use Dot and when to not is an asset. Shaman's aren't trying to be Runie's but are carrying out a large number of roles (albiet not to the full extent of dedicated classes). We don't tell you how to play your class, please hold back from telling us how to play ours.

 

[Makwaerk]

Sorry for offending so many shamans out there and sorry for generalizing .. but seing a lovely Ae mezz killed by a ae dot pisses one off.

Most of the time a AE mezz can really do wonders, and as such it is being used a lot. When a healer has cast a mezz .. we can all agree that you should not use ae, and this is where I feel cave shamans runs into problems, as the cave linie does not have much other to help with .. the DD has a time and it is shared with the bolt, single target DoT just don't do much when you you group ganks up on a player.

Only the first tick of a dot interupts, in rvr anyway not sure about pve.

Do the Ae dot from 2 shamans even stack? don't think they do so having more then one of these shamans is a bit overkill.

The linie has some CC with the root aswell ... but it is quite inferior to the healers PaC linie, or a Spirit dimming wich has great nuke aswell.

I think the role of a dmg dealer/cc is being done so much better of our other classes out there.. making the Cave shaman a .. well a gimped class. Some players might play this class very well, but think they could do much better with a other class and as such it is a shame that the shaman cave linie is not better then it is.

Edit(added this last bit)

If someone think I play one of my classes wrong, I would very much prefer them telling me so I may learn from it, or in some cases they learn why I do the things the way I do.

 

[bloody]

i'd like to support mak here

sometimes you do see good ae dots, but the only place they really shine is in keep defence/offence and in mindless zergs with no controll/cc anyways

in good skirmish RvR they really have no place at all, many shamans do realize this and do not use the line so it's not a problem, although a vaste of spec points.

problem is it's often used as a leech device for RP's and i've seen some pretty selfish shammies out there(also seen other classes, and not naming names) problem with those ppl playing that style is that they tend to forget their mending and aug line altogether, although 2 exellent lines, Buffs really do a lot(why do you think there's all the whining about buffbots, and speccing in them mnot only gives you better buffs but also make your current ones better) heals is a given as well as resses + friggs. and you should have imo at least 26+ in each of those 2 lines.

it's often nice to open with cave, but cave shammies tend to not just open with cave but stay in cavemode till the battle is over. and that is not really what migaard is looking for.

and yes dots only disturb on first tick, they don't stack, but they do break mezzes at each tick