Why DAOC really is quite a disappointment

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old.IvoryOutlaw

Guest
I bought DAOC about a couple of weeks ago, and I must say I am so disapointed that I doubt very much my subscribtion will extend over the free month.

The first massively multiplayer game I played was Ultima, and whilst it didnt impress me too much it was a fun, new thing. I then didnt touch any other MMRPGs until DAOC arrived, which seemed to have lots of innovations with its realm vs realm theme etc...

The problem is that the reality of the game is very different. Really and truely the only thing you get up to during the first 30 lvls or so is killing blue-yellow or red mobs, in groups or alone. Maybe you do a quest or two, but otherwise people are 24/7 busy with exping. And exping is slooooowwwww... you could be online a day to even level from 12-13.
Whilst it calls itself a roleplaying game the roleplaying standards on the servers are horrendously low, which destroys most of what a real roleplayer would enjoy in such a game. I mean, people walking around named "BigMama" "Turbo" etc destroy a big part of the game. And nobody cares about roleplay anyhow (the good old mud problem: "Wanna group?" "-Sure m8!" "Gimme 10 silver!".... That is the general language on the servers, really not very impressive from a roleplay point of view. Also, whereever you go, people are just running past you or talking to NSCs. Even the capital cities are just places where a lot of NSCs hang out so people can buy whatever there, or get quests or practice at their trainers, but there is no player based life there. You will never feel any kind of roleplaying atmosphere in a DAOC village or town. Their only reason for existence truely are the few NSCs that hang around there.
Now, of course the game is not a true roleplaying game, but more like a modern version of old fashioned text-mud. But the problem is that from an action- RvR, or clan versus clan point of view, you do not get involved enough. You will be absolutely useless in RvsR combat before you are not lvl 25 at least, and therefore you will spend weeks upojn weeks doing nothing but running around killing those stupid animals that spawn all over the empires. All the while you have no sense of a "developing char". Since all your skills are solely dependent on spending "skill points" gained by leveling, you will never have another aim than gaining EXP when developing your char. Now that actually seems a step back from ultima, where skills were gained by doing stuff, and not by leveling alone.
Also, the world is hugely un-interactive. You have no influence on the world itself other than that you can kill monsters or take over castles. When you are a fletcher you cannot even gain wood from trees as a raw material or anything like that....no..... instead you have to but everything from NSCs.
Realm vs Realm is not a big part of the game, unfortunately, since that could score a few points. To put it this way: whilst i can see on the server info from the DAOC site which castles have been conquered by which realm in which realm, I have not felt ANY effect of this at all. In fact, I havnt seen a single character from Albion or Hibernia walking through Midgaard (which is where I play). So really, RvsR will only affect you when you are actually looking to fight by defending castles or conquering castles. You never get the sense in the game that anything has happened even though half your empire (supposedly) is captured.
I could go on mentioning 1000 weaknesses, yet very few good points other than that it has relatively good graphics (for a MMRPG).Really and truely what DAOC is is a 3d world (or better, 3 3d worlds that really have quite little to do with each other besides the occasional raid), which are populated by thousands of mosntders and animals of various levels. The pl;ayer characters walk around trying to kill these monsters in order to get their characters to a high level. Even though I suppose that a lvl 40 char will still essentially be doing the same thing, he will have at least the benefit to be able to fight RvsR. And more there isnt really to it.

I would advise anyone who hasnt bought this game and who is looking for an immersive, somewhat roleplay based, MMRPG to keep their hands of DAOC. Whilst it isnt exactly expensive to try the game, there are better ones on the horizon. If it delivers to what it has promised, I predict that the arrival of Star Wars galaxies in 1 1/2 years will kill all other MMRPGs out there today. If you havnt read in depth about that game yet you should do this, then think about what I criticise DAOC for, and then I am sure you will understand why I am getting severly bored and disappointed with DAOC.
 
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erl

Guest
Can't belive I bothered myself to read all of this. One thing I'd like to say now is: if it isn't fun, don't play it. Simple, huh?

And about the role playing part, it is this way everywhere, role playing doesn't refer to people playing specific roles, it refers to the genre of the game in other aspects. How could you otherwise call non-multiplayer games rpgs? If you are looking for ppl playing things they are not, go to a role playing server, which we unfortunatley don't have in Europe atm. *shrug* just wanted to post something, but I guess I'm just feedin the trolls.
 
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old.IvoryOutlaw

Guest
Erl, funny that, you say you read my post, but if you had you would notice that your points were both adressed :) :

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Your quote: "Can't belive I bothered myself to read all of this. One thing I'd like to say now is: if it isn't fun, don't play it. Simple, huh?"

What I wrote: "I bought DAOC about a couple of weeks ago, and I must say I am so disapointed that I doubt very much my subscribtion will extend over the free month. "

Hmm... of course if you mean that if I dont like it I neednt writre about that fact, then you are very wrong. This is an open forum, and not a cencored place where everyone has to write only positive stuff. In fact, I think that criticism is THE most important thing about any game, cause without it games wont get better ---- doh!!!
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Your quote: "And about the role playing part, it is this way everywhere, role playing doesn't refer to people playing specific roles, it refers to the genre of the game in other aspects."

What I wrote: "Now, of course the game is not a true roleplaying game, but more like a modern version of old fashioned text-mud."

And still, if you think roleplay has no importance whatshowever, why the hell is DAOC set in oldern times instead of just simulating our real world and allowing players to scan their faces on 3D images of their bodies... Obviously you want to be a character other than yourself (magician?, berserker? or whatever), which automatically means that it IS suposed to be a roleplaying game. The problem is that people make NOTHING of it... through the lack of player initiative to roleplay the game looses... a lot.
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And anyway, I made more points than roleplay, so I think it is pointless to talk about this point alone. Nearly every aspect of the gameplay side of the game has serious flaws...
 
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old.Prof

Guest
DAoC is a classic example of the combat-oriented lvl-based MMORPG "a la EQ", and a good one at that too.

From the rest of your quotes I can say you have some valid points, but also your prove yourselves a bit inexperienced in the game :p


And exping is slooooowwwww... you could be online a day to even level from 12-13.

Admittedly it took me also a while with my first char, but once you know what yer doing you can go very fast through the lower lvls. I go from 12 to 13 in 1,5 hours at max. The "all-day" only applies to lvl 40 - at the least when you know what yer doing.
At lower lvls there are also a LOT of quests to do, and together with the tasks you shouldn't even be really xping under lvl 20.

The lvl grind kicks in, but only at higher levels, and ANY MMORPG at high-lvl is a boring grind to go through ...


Whilst it calls itself a roleplaying game the roleplaying standards on the servers are horrendously low

If you're looking for a good RP game, then don't bother looking at any MMORPG, the vast majority doesn't RP. RPG stands more for a game with statlike character development then for actual roleplay.
HOWEVER, much also depends on your server/realm/guild. There are role-playing guilds, in which you can enjoy RPing + the USA DAoC version has RP servers in which ppl are loosely forced to RP (or else they can be penalised). Euro version does not have such RP servers though.


you will never have another aim than gaining EXP when developing your char. Now that actually seems a step back from ultima, where skills were gained by doing stuff, and not by leveling alone.
Also, the world is hugely un-interactive.

EQ, AC, AO are all similar like this. UO is actually the exception on the rule. Basically all those MMORPGs concentrate on combat, while UO was more a general RP environment. Two different game concepts, two different games. What you like is mostly on personal preference.
 
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old.chesnor

Guest
It is easy to come to a game with pre-concieved ideas of how it should be, and how its players should behave. It is then very easy to be dissapointed when the game and the community don't meet your expectations.

Try to play the game for what it is, not what you expect it to be. Sure there isn't much roleplaying. Thats because this game isn't (imho) an RPG in the strictest and narrowest sense. I personally don't like the stat heavy 'beardy' RPGs. Never had any time for them. I played FPS before DAOC and I know that a large proportion of the players also have come from FPS rather than the likes of EQ, UO etc..I personally don;t roleplay, can't roleplay and probably won't roleplay. The syntax people use to communicate in game is of no consequence to me "hello, lo, oi oi, ahoy hoy, aight, greetings" all mean the same thing to me. If you get hung up about that kind of thing, then this isn't the game for you...

DAOC so far has been a good introduction into this type of game for me. Maybe SWG will be better, but thats 1+ year away and by then DAOC will be nearly 2yrs old. So if its not better, the SWG developers would have done something horribly wrong.

You can please some of the people some of the time etc..etc..etc..
 
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omen_darkstep

Guest
I'm actually beginning to miss the vast amount of different roleplaying situations you could enter in UO.

Vampires, Highwaymen, Lords, Kinds, Undead, Posessed, Tailors, Lumberjacks, Heros, etc, etc, etc... the only thing that limited you was your imagination and the amount of work you were willing to put into the fantasy.

One of my favourite UO memories was Medieval DJing (i was actually playing virtual decks in virtual nightclub and streaming live music) while people danced and chilled out in the club.

The 'nightclub' was Big Mamma's on the Europa server - I kinda miss the dedication it took to RP that amount and make it believable for other players.

I was the GM of what started out as a town council but got warped into a highly chaotic evil guild who were all possesed by a greater demon known as 'The Overlord'...

In UO u could do anything your wanted near enough and you rarely got bored - in DaoC - hack, slash, hack, slash, hack slash till 50 - then go rvr. Then sell account after a few months as your bored.
 
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old.Braecia

Guest
Well DAOC has it's negative sides. But I truly enjoy this game. The virtual world experience of DAOC can never compare or compete with that of UO. But once housing gets in, there might be some serious changes to that.
 
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old.IvoryOutlaw

Guest
Prof,

You make some good points. Of course, you are right, I am inexperienced. Yet this does not take away the validity of my points.
The thing is, I have a lot of experience with games similar to DAOC. I have been a keen mudder (yes, text based muds, but really there is no difference, I actually find it much more fun :)). Now, as I said I believe DAOC is something like a graphical, bigger version of traditional text based muds. The theme is really similar: You walk around in groups, kill things, gain exp... through exp you gain levels... through levels you gain power and new skills.... You then use these skills in clan versus clan combat(i.e. in traditional muds for example magic clan versus magic hater clan, evil versus good, chaos versus order...)... Roleplay is also the same in traditional muds (maybe a little more, but not much) and it really isnt its focus (at least for most).
In my opinion the problem with DAOC is that to be a competitive game (i.e. where you use your power gained against others) it is just not involving enough. In most text based muds there is always a sense of urgency in what you do... there are always enemies in reach and a wrong step will cost you ypour life. Even at early levels you WILL be hunted by potential enemies, and once you join a clan your action will start on the spot. In fact, the focus is on this action and everything surrounding it (i.e. exping, equipment hunting etc) is completely secondary.
Yet I miss the sense of threat and urgency in DAOC... it seems RvsR is truely just a side effect, rather than the focus. Therefore the game becomes something of an Everquest for me, and the reason why I never played Everquest was that I think it is the saddest thing in the world to create a character (in a non-roleplaying environment) and just level him up for the sake of it... it seems very silly to me. RvsR would give the leveling a true reason, but it is badly implemented and I do not think it will ever change.


chesnor,

As I mentioned above, I have played MUDs for many years, and therefore didnt really expect much different from DAOC. Yet, even for what it is it has weaknesses (like I said about the missing urgency in RvsR etc)... the game feels scarily empty considering there are 1000s on with you, and atmosphere and some gameplay stuff is really missing.

omen_darkstep,

Heh:) I think you will like Star Wars Galaxies if you enjoyed UO... it will enable players to create real virtual lifes (which is, I believe, will be THE theme for online games in future) in the star wars universe. You can even own factories, and in the first addon pack people clans will actually be able to run whole captial ships together .. Cant wait :)
 
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old.Kendrik

Guest
I agree

I agree with IvoryOutlaw ... and others. I approached this game from UO too (which I found became quite boring).

I started playing DAoC at the begining of Open Beta and have played it ever since ... apart from the last month when I just haven't really found the will to log on. I'm not saying DAoC is a bad game - it's just, as someone else mentioned it is basically an XP treadmill. Of course most MMORPG's are like this and in the beginning the fact that DAoC is a very nice and well produced game blinded me to fact but now the newness has worn off I just ... am not entertained anymore. So I will most likely cancel my subscription - to all those that enjoy the game - Good luck to you I'm glad you have found something you enjoy and I hope it keeps getting better (the expansion pack look like it might add some interesting stuff for you guys and girls ... not to metion the future patches :) )

Anyway like I said DAoC - not a bad game - simply not for me - a good example of the genre - but unfortunatly a genre that no longer appeals to me. I will try new games like SWG and most likely will get bored with them too - oh the problems of having the attention span of a goldfish :cool:

To all that continue to defend their realm - I salute you.
 
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old.mili

Guest
im thinkin the same thing too, when my sub runs out in september im giving all my gear away then delete my account
 
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Wicoa

Guest
Alot of valid points here, with the new realm for trinkets and so on I think things will brighten up but yes freedom is restricted. I think that I should be able to kill monsters like trees and get special things to craft with. This world is limited to the makers design and unfortunately so are we. I point you to my thread for further arguements.

http://forums.barrysworld.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23888

Get a char to high 40's or 50's then sell the a/c. But personally when I hit 50 I wanna cause hell for other realms for quite sometime.
 
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old.keneda

Guest
whining maggot...

so you dont like it.. big deal... not like anyone is FORCING you to play it. play to have fun, if its sheet dont play simple :)

its a fockin good job you never played everquest coz this is an amazing game in comparison, at least there is a decent pvp environment here. everquest = level as high as possible go on raids and hope for better equip, repeat...

as for not being good in rvr till 25+ well IF/WHEN we get the battle grounds that will be sorted, well kind of frfom 19 to 24 is 1st battle ground...

good luck with UO :D (and its gash graphics)
 
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cHodAX

Guest
Originally posted by mili
im thinkin the same thing too, when my sub runs out in september im giving all my gear away then delete my account

Ditto, I already gave my guild notice that I won't be around after September. I increasingly find myself playing just for the chat, the RvR in recent weeks has been fun but the thought of 4 more levels till 50 and then the same old RvR night after night doesn't appeal. The forthcoming patches nerf my already weak at RvR class even more with the only bright point being Darkness Falls which in truth isn't enough to justify a few more hundred hours gameplay and the cash required. Many people have said that roll a new character but the thought of the EXP grind to get back upto RvR levels makes my eyeballs bleed. No, I will go back to Jumpgate and play Jumpgate 2 when it is released for a while and see what future games come along. It has been fun over the last 7 months but with very little new added in that time it was bound to grow tiresome in the end.
 
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starblade

Guest
The first free month is there for a reason .... to see if you like the game. If you come here looking for an in-depth true RPG like game ... you came to the wrong place.
Complaining about DAoC not being true RPG is like complaining Diablo II is not a true RPG. Both are action RPG's set in a fix world where XP is important and this in a fantasy world created for this purpose.

I have been playing here since early beta, tested out all characters and STILL can't get enough of it. I like the game, I like the people I've met, ...

DAoC is also a rather 'new' world. Over time, it will expand and develop more and more to make/keep in interesting for both high lvl players and new players. But as I said, if you dont like it in the first month .... don't bother staying.

I predict that the arrival of Star Wars galaxies in 1 1/2 years will kill all other MMRPGs out there today.
As for this ; You have to be a SW fan to like this one ... which I do not so there will always be at least one pala running round in DAoC ;) ;)
 
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old.[BC]Revz

Guest
This game is similar in a lot of respects to EQ and to paraphrase a quote from that "most people in EQ gave up on the idea of truly role-playing as soon as the servers went live". Games like DAoC and EQ are basically competitions between players for the most part; be it who has the strongest realm, who has the best equipment, who has defeated the hardest uber encounter the quickest or whatever.

If I want to properly role-play I get out one of the many pen and paper games I have, call up my friends and do it like that. I never expect it online and don't expect it from others, if I do see some role-playing I find it a bonus. In some ways role-playing can actually be at odds with progressing in the game as well so it is no suprise that there isn't a lot of it.

Also about levelling just thank god you didn't play EQ :) 49-50 is supposed to be the hardest level to get in DAoC and in all honesty it is a breeze compared to your hell levels in EQ (of which there are many between 1 and 60). It always suprises me that people complain about how boring/hard levelling is when in actual fact it is extremely easy compared to a lot of games. I suppose if this is your first game you might not have had a chance to find this out yourself yet :)

DAoC has a lot of problems (particularly the EU version) but most of the major ones are only found at high levels (lack of content, imbalanced RvR, no genuine player economy, item degradation etc.). The low-mid levels of DAoC are pretty well handled tbh.
 
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cleeve

Guest
Hullo Ivory

before u give up entirely and stop playing the game -

Start a new character in Hibernia/prydwyn then look out for the artisans of willow - they are a roleplaying guild - they might give your final two weeks a bit more enjoyment at least

Revor
 
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old.Bowen

Guest
Mind numbing post you wrote there do we sound like GOA and Mythic? I believe they have an email address you can use.

Now if you put a post up that said "has anyone out there got a RP guild as I would like to join" then the post might not have seemed like you were taking the oppurtunity to bother the playing community with your whinning!

You have to part take in the game, make friends and find a role playing guild then you will start to have fun

it won't just fall at your feet it's the same in every MMORPG including UO

otherwise u may want to consider a single player game.
 
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old.job

Guest
I don't know what your character is , but if you find the game an xp treadmill, try a healer class, healing is NEVER boring and requires player ineractivity and concentration way above the tanking classes, have you ever noticed healers rarely shout out their xp or drops, those things just roll in we're too busy looking after the group. I do start to wonder sometimes when the tanks are shouting out the drops and xp WHILE they're still fightin, makes me think it's getting a bit mundane for them.
 
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Brannor McThife

Guest
I've just rolled a new character, and by gawd I'm loving it as much as I did when I started Beta.

Of course, having all the knowledge of the world and meeting tons of new people makes it a blast.

One thing I did notice, how many of us have created alts and then churn them straight back into our guild? It's sooo much more fun staying out of your guild and meeting totally new people.

I too come from a MUD background, and yes, the MUD I played was hugely complex, but DAoC is set in the time of knights/norsemen/and frolicking Hibbies. I'll probably take a look at SWG, but it's SCI-FI, and I like swords more than light sabres.

And yes, Xp is a grind (only after L40). But it's fun when you link up with amusing people...like healers and mages that want to fight. :rolleyes:

-G
 
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Brannor McThife

Guest
Originally posted by job
...healing is NEVER boring...

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaa!

Ahem.


Bwahahahahahahahahhahahahahahaaa!

;)

-G
 
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SFXman

Guest
May I just ask you, how the HELL does 12-13 take a day? I really want to see this done... you can reach 1-10 in one day, np even.
RvR is a big part of the game, later levels... not much more today besides that and farming items.
Sorry but umm... Ultima Online you gain by "doing stuff" as you said. UO has simply a different way of gaining skill, you don't need a trainer... otherwise it is pretty much the same. Crafting in UO is the same... just repeat and repeat although in DAoC you can't get raw materials yourself (which is bad and good, I mean mining was not exactly fun in UO).
Cities in DAoC are the same as UO, both have a load of NPCs to buy stuff from but in DAoC less people hang out there, I mean there is no britain bank :p and just like in UO people craft in cities...

PS: What is an NSC... NPC.
 
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Flimgoblin

Guest
Originally posted by job
I don't know what your character is , but if you find the game an xp treadmill, try a healer class, healing is NEVER boring and requires player ineractivity and concentration way above the tanking classes, have you ever noticed healers rarely shout out their xp or drops, those things just roll in we're too busy looking after the group. I do start to wonder sometimes when the tanks are shouting out the drops and xp WHILE they're still fightin, makes me think it's getting a bit mundane for them.

I do that... with both my tank and my wiz :)
but thats coz I type far too damned fast...
 
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Flimgoblin

Guest
Originally posted by Brannor McThife
.like healers and mages that want to fight

Hey I want to use my damage buff too! :)

(actually my guildmate Pog is far better at being a wiz-tank well at the getting-aggro bit of it ;) although I died more than him yesterday so I shouldn't comment)
 
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old.Archa

Guest
sigh

IvoryOutlaw go play everbore thats where roleplayers go.

This game is for people who enjoy rvr and yes atm rvr is only fun at about 40+ because the lowbie battlegrounds aren't in yet.

1-40 is just plain vanilla exp exp and whilst some people enjoy killing the same mob over and over (just the same as EQ/UO), 40-50 is where the real fun is.

If you can't be bothered to hit lev 40+ you'll never experience the true fun of the game, in which case stop plastering these boards with your large whinging posts.

Oh and btw I also played UO and EQ and I can tell you from experience that UO sucked eggs because of the speed hack cheaters and terrible lag when more than 5 people were on your screen.

EQ was a huge improvement over UO but was too afraid to have real rvr (the pvp servers we soo nerfed that my druid didn't even have enough mana to kill himself with lightning) imho the creators were frightened of pvp after all the whinging that occured on UO where players were rountinely ganked in dungeons.

Simply put if you wana pvp this is the game for you (assuming you want more content than quake :) ), if not go play everbore.



:sleeping:
 
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old.job

Guest
OK sometimes it can be boring, but it's always there isn't it, will this next heal have that lvl40++ wackin at my soft ass.
 
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old.IvoryOutlaw

Guest
Archa, Bowen

You oviously havnt read further than my head-post... so i wont bother to reply.

Keneda,

I am not saying that anyone is forcing me to play it... and thats why I will finish playing when my subscription ends. The fact that I dont HAVE to play the game doesnt mean to say I cant criticise it... By the way, Ultima Online wasnt my thing either, so I will definately not go back there...

starblade,

"Complaining about DAoC not being true RPG is like complaining Diablo II is not a true RPG."

I think the fact that DAOC's game principle is so similar to Diablo is what I find scarily crap about the game. In essence that is what it is: A hack and slash game. And if you asked me to compare upcoming Neverwinter nights to DiabloII, then guess which game will kick ass and which not.... Diablo II is so mind numbing that after 2 hours play I feel my IQ has dropped 30 points. :)

SFXman,

"RvR is a big part of the game, later levels... "

I just dont believe that, you see. Of course, you will do RvsR at later levels, since there is absolutely nothing else to do, but RvsR isnt a big part of the game. As I say, I probably have played around 50-60 odd hours, and I havnt seen a signle Albion or Hibernia char in Midgaard... now that is what I call a tough and scary war... NOT. :) If it were a central theme the countries would have open borders, and an invasion would affecdt any char walking around in a country hit.





I think DAOC could be a great game, if it had been designed better. I dont mean to say that is entirely crap... of course I can be on a few hours and have a somewhat decent time, but I am saying its very mediocre, and for a game that has over 3k people online at peak times, it is a hell of a wasted opportunity. A game of such a scale, well designed, could be THE game that would let you forget any single player game you have ever played (and in future, once they have developed much further, that is I think what will happen.), but as it stands DAOC is just A game, not much better that even Gothic or even Diablo.


And to all those that keep writing unproductive crap about "why do you complain" or "you dont have to play it , you know?", you are the biggest hypocrats. You say I shouldnt boyther the forum with my critique, and then you feel obliged to bother me with your senseless critique... Doh!!!! If you dont like my complaints you are free to NOT write a reply and read another post. If you do, say something constructive, proove me wrong, whatever, but dont post your no-brainers pls...
 
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Tenko

Guest
I AGREE WITH EVERYONE!

Hehe, but seriously This game does suck from a role-play point of view. There are and will be better "Roleplaying" games, unless mythic stop spending all there time nerfing character classes and start adding less combat oriented content.

BUT I LOVE THE GAME ANYWAY!

I played pen-and-paper RPG's for various reasons from pure story driven games like Call of Cthulu to pure dungeon delving in D&D.

The thing is I like to do both with the same characters on different days.

The first game to do both will get my monthly subscription and it looks like Star Wars Galaxies may be it.

Shame its Star Wars though as everything Lucas is now officially EVIL:flame:

GWAHAHAHA!
 
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SFXman

Guest
Originally posted by IvoryOutlaw
SFXman,

"RvR is a big part of the game, later levels... "

I just dont believe that, you see. Of course, you will do RvsR at later levels, since there is absolutely nothing else to do, but RvsR isnt a big part of the game. As I say, I probably have played around 50-60 odd hours, and I havnt seen a signle Albion or Hibernia char in Midgaard... now that is what I call a tough and scary war... NOT. :) If it were a central theme the countries would have open borders, and an invasion would affecdt any char walking around in a country hit.
You know what is funny about this comment... most RvR wars are in Emain since it is such a good place to fight with its simple terrain and low amount of mobs. Only time you will see albions or hibernians in Midgard places is either when keeps are taken or some scouts/infils are soloing...
 
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Sarnat

Guest
Originally posted by cHodAX

No, I will go back to Jumpgate and play Jumpgate 2 when it is released for a while and see what future games come along. I

I really feel sorry for you mate ;D
 

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