Who Built the Moon?

Dillinja

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No, I haven't gone crazy.

I was reading some really interesting stuff in the Daily Mail today about the moon. It was an extract from a book called "Who Built the Moon?", which will be on sale next week.

I did some googling and came up with a couple of interesting websites.

Link #1 - The stuff about the Luna missions is especially interesting.

Link #2

Notable quotes;

"Yes, a NASA scientist said the acoustic characteristics were that of a hollow Titanium sphere 60 miles below the surface. In addition, the scientists saw EXACTLY the same seismic traces each time a meteorite would hit, as if it were vibrating some fixed bodies inside the moon." - Not sure how plausible this one is, but if it is factual, then it is extremely creepy.

"...the Moon is placed in orbit at exactly the distance from the Earth so that it covers the Sun during a solar eclipse. Isaac Asimov in one of his books commented on the improbability of this occurring by chance." - I have always wondered about this one. It seems incredibly strange that the Earth, Sun and Moon are all placed in perfect positions to make the moon and sun appear the same size in the sky and create eclipses. The odds of it being that way by chance have got to be trillions to one. Very peculiar.

"Yet another unnamed writer reported that the astronauts found the surface of the Moon so hard, just under the loose dust layer, that they could not drill into it. "When the discarded descent stages of the spacecrafts crashed on the Moon, NASA noted that the moon rang like a gong or bell for up to four hours after impact."" - Creepy, no? Again, not sure how plausible it is.

"NASA scientists themselves have said that the hollow moon model fits the facts."

The basic idea is that the moon has been manufactured by someone or something. It has been hollowed out in the middle so that it is the perfect mass to maintain a locked orbit around the Earth and at the same time control seasons, tides etc. We need the moon to live, without it we would have no seasons and the Earth's climate would be dramatically altered to the point where it would no longer be inhabitable, so there's your motive.

This is probably the craziest thing that I've ever even considered buying into, and I wouldn't be giving this insane idea any credit at all if it wasn't for the apparent fact that NASA scientists themselves have commented on it and there are books being written about it.

Anyway, in a universe where we don't even know how we came to exist, I'm willing to keep an open mind about anything.

(I'm not crazy, honest.)

And if none of that interests you, here's a cool picture of one of saturns moons. "Death Star".
 

DocWolfe

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to be honest unless there is actual scientific data I wouldn't beleive it, I could write a book about how the sun is actually cold - make up a load of fake observations, quote from a couple of nutcases and say buy my book.

Take for example that scientologist crap, the guy who made famous actors (*cough* tom cruise) beleive that the human race actually came from venus has clearly made up enough semi plausable stories to make a bunch of tards beleive it. Surely it's possible with a book.
 

Raven

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Dillinja said:
""When the discarded descent stages of the spacecrafts crashed on the Moon, NASA noted that the moon rang like a gong or bell for up to four hours after impact."" - Creepy, no? Again, not sure how plausible it is.
problem with that one is the moon makes no noise at all, since sound does not travel in space.

worded properly you can make anything sound plausable, with enough random quotes from "insiders" and "experts" you can even get people to go along with it.

not saying its not true ofc (how would i know) but i doubt it.

I do like these sorts of theorys some people are very convincing :)
 

tris-

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hey dil you crazy mofo.

you mention a couple of things being a trillion to one that the event will occur. if there is a probability it can happen then its not imposible.

it doesnt matter what the odds are, what if by chance it did?

"problem with that one is the moon makes no noise at all, since sound does not travel in space."

maybe by rang, they meant vibrated. but ye, your right sound is vibration still.
how would the vibrations travel through an empty space to earth for nasa to monitor? unless there was a device on the LEM that was made to measure vibrations on a surface? so the waves didnt need to travel to earth to be monitored.
and and and, the LEM didnt weigh jack shit. if the moon was made from titanium then i doubt it would be done anything to it.
its like dropping a piece of paper onto a sheet of iron.
 

DocWolfe

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I dont think the moon is actually exactly the same size - it's just that the light when heading toward the earth in a solar eclipse is bent by the gravity of the moon, to make it appear so.
 

tris-

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im sure the amount of gravity needed to bend light is a lot more than the moon has.

or am i wrong?
 

Raven

Happy Shopper Ray Mears
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your right :) to bend light it would have to be a black hole :)
 

Dillinja

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I was just looking up at the sky out of my window and saw two shooting stars. I've never seen one before in my whole life and I just saw two in the space of about 15 seconds. Not really sure how common they are but it was really quite a thrilling thing to see.

Maybe something up there is trying to tell me something... :)
 

DocWolfe

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tris- said:
im sure the amount of gravity needed to bend light is a lot more than the moon has.

or am i wrong?
Thats like saying you can bounce a ball but you can only bounce it high... gravity whatever the mass of the object will have an affect on light.

I read somewhere that although we see the sun in a particular position in the sky - the sun is actually in a slightly different position due to the affect the earth has on the light from the sun. I think I actually saw it on that program with Patrick Moore.
 

tris-

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DocWolfe said:
Thats like saying you can bounce a ball but you can only bounce it high... gravity whatever the mass of the object will have an affect on light.

.
lol. seriously :D.

some of HUGE planets and galaxies and black holes bend light (the speed being 299 792 458 m / s btw). that is a fair bit faster than a bouncing ball.

the only reason a black hole bends light is because the gravitational force is fooking huge. galaxies bend light for the same thing. have a look for some astronomy pictures where it appears that galaxies are laid out in an arc around the picture. that is because it has bent the light.

now the moon, bending light. wow, please post up some sites so i can see this.
 

Chilly

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Of course it bends the light, but the amount it bends it by is so infintesimal that it's probably impossible to detech with even the most modern and sensitive kit.
 

clearbrook

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Raven said:
problem with that one is the moon makes no noise at all, since sound does not travel in space.
sound can travel through gas, liquids and solids (not sure about plasma)

The moon is solid, so sound waves can travel through the moon, and be detected by a contact microphone placed on a rock somewhere
 

tris-

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but you know sound is made by vibrating the air around you.

right?! RIGHT?!
 

Toxick

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DocWolfe said:
I read somewhere that although we see the sun in a particular position in the sky - the sun is actually in a slightly different position due to the affect the earth has on the light from the sun. I think I actually saw it on that program with Patrick Moore.

the sun is in a diffrent postion when you look up in the sky as it is 8 minutes for the light of the sun to hit earth,

the only thing that can bend light is a black hole, when looking at galaxies(through telescopes, ect) the galxaise seem to be in a arch, is due to a black hole is in between earth and that paticular galaxy.

rember the earth has been here many billion years, it is very problal that earth had many moons, before the one we curtenly have at the moment. and a new one took its place(throguh million of years)

earth pull on the moon to rotate around earth, has so much effect, that the moon is a ta certain distance, that distance then make the moon look bigger then the sun, hence the eclipse, some people can see the eclipse, but others might see a half eclipse ect, depends were you are in the world, to see a full eclsipse/half eclipse or a quater eclipse.

Tom cruise is right, weman did come from venus :p ;) Men came from mars.

the moon is solid, it had traces of water on it as well, it is pure bullshit that it was rining for 4 hours after the moonladner landed on it. it is also bullshit that it is hollow, and also they can drill on the moon they have, for expertments, and such.
 

Dukat

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I'm sceptical, but there are some very good points made, such as why the moon is more of less exactly the size it needs to be to cause an eclipse so perfectly that solar flares are visible from earth.

The point about the moon ringing like a bell is also not entirely unaccurate. they didnt say anything about sound, just that the moon 'rang', surely they could be refering to the vibrations rather than the sound? as someone else said, it would be impossible to have the moon making sound, but it could still vibrate without the sound, couldnt it?

All this astronomy stuff interests me, but its so big, it seems to me that we'd never beable to comprehend the reasons for it. not that I'm saying we shouldnt try.
 

Chilly

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Dukat said:
I'm sceptical, but there are some very good points made, such as why the moon is more of less exactly the size it needs to be to cause an eclipse so perfectly that solar flares are visible from earth.

The point about the moon ringing like a bell is also not entirely unaccurate. they didnt say anything about sound, just that the moon 'rang', surely they could be refering to the vibrations rather than the sound? as someone else said, it would be impossible to have the moon making sound, but it could still vibrate without the sound, couldnt it?

All this astronomy stuff interests me, but its so big, it seems to me that we'd never beable to comprehend the reasons for it. not that I'm saying we shouldnt try.
Come now, there are so many really, really cool coincidences in nature that it isnt hard to believe that this isnt just another?

For instance, ever thought how unlikly it is that a semiconductor can exist? A material that is pretty boring, until you give it some good lovin and then it becomes so infinitely useful its crazy. Or any number of evolutionary lucky breaks. Nearly all seeing life on the planet sees in the same very narrow spectrum of light.


Oh and about the moonlander making the moon "ring". I agree, it's bullshit. Imagine a mosquito trying to make a church bell ring by flying into it at top speed. Now imagine the bell is 1000 times bigger (this is all estimation) - the mossie has zero chance of causing the bell to ring. It just doesnt have the energy required, or anywhere near the amount. Then consider the moonlander was trying to land very softly so as not to own itself upon touchdown. It's just rubbish!
 

Dukat

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Chilly said:
Come now, there are so many really, really cool coincidences in nature that it isnt hard to believe that this isnt just another?

For instance, ever thought how unlikly it is that a semiconductor can exist? A material that is pretty boring, until you give it some good lovin and then it becomes so infinitely useful its crazy. Or any number of evolutionary lucky breaks. Nearly all seeing life on the planet sees in the same very narrow spectrum of light.
Yea, as I say I'm still sceptical, but all of the startling amount of scientific coincidences that exist is just what I meant about it being "so big". It could well just all be a load of co-incidences, but I have a very hard time believing in co-incidences in normal day life, that co-incidences on a scale this big just make me wonder if theres something to it all.

It could just be wishfull thinking, but what if there was a reason for it all?
 

Danamyr

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Raven said:
problem with that one is the moon makes no noise at all, since sound does not travel in space.

worded properly you can make anything sound plausable, with enough random quotes from "insiders" and "experts" you can even get people to go along with it.

not saying its not true ofc (how would i know) but i doubt it.

I do like these sorts of theorys some people are very convincing :)
You're missing the point. It wasn't claimed that the sound was travelling through space, they said vibrations travelled through the Moon. As the Moon is a solid object, it's entirely possible for the energy of an impact to be carried through a solid mass.

I agree with you that it is interesting :)
 

pbaz

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Dillinja said:
No, I haven't gone crazy.
Yes you have! :D

"Yes, a NASA scientist said the acoustic characteristics were that of a hollow Titanium sphere 60 miles below the surface. In addition, the scientists saw EXACTLY the same seismic traces each time a meteorite would hit, as if it were vibrating some fixed bodies inside the moon." - Not sure how plausible this one is, but if it is factual, then it is extremely creepy.
The moon landings put little "earthquake generators" on the surface of the moon to check what its internal composition was. It has a crust of about 70km depth, a mantle of about 600km depth and a core of about 200km depth (then, obviously, the same again on the other side of the center!). It's not hollow. It's a solid body of igneous rock layers. This quote from a "NASA scientist" is a lie (or the scientist was drunk when quoted).

"...the Moon is placed in orbit at exactly the distance from the Earth so that it covers the Sun during a solar eclipse. Isaac Asimov in one of his books commented on the improbability of this occurring by chance." - I have always wondered about this one. It seems incredibly strange that the Earth, Sun and Moon are all placed in perfect positions to make the moon and sun appear the same size in the sky and create eclipses. The odds of it being that way by chance have got to be trillions to one. Very peculiar.
Well, it's not actually as "perfect" as you say. The distances between Earth, Moon and Sun are not constant. You can get "total" eclipses where the moon is too small in the sky to block out the sun entirely (annular eclipses); you can get eclipses where the moon is too large in the sky that you can't see flares; and you can get eclipses where the distances are about right and you get a "perfect" total eclipse. So let's not overstate this situation as "perfect" every time. I also strongly suspect that the odds of our moon and sun appearing in the sky as approximately the same size are not "trillions to one", but I don't have time to investigate this one atm.

"Yet another unnamed writer reported that the astronauts found the surface of the Moon so hard, just under the loose dust layer, that they could not drill into it. "When the discarded descent stages of the spacecrafts crashed on the Moon, NASA noted that the moon rang like a gong or bell for up to four hours after impact."" - Creepy, no? Again, not sure how plausible it is.
Ahh - a reputable unnamed source! Appollo missions 15, 16 and 17 used drills to get rock samples from 3 metres deep. Is this deep enough to discredit the claim that they couldn't drill into it "just under the dust layer"?

The "ringing like a bell" part of the quote is likely to refer the the detectors set up on the surface (those little "eathrquake generators" I mentioned above). This happens here on Earth, too - after an earthquake, the waves of energy can be detected for a long time after the event. What's so unusual or surprising about the moon behaving in a similar fashion?

"NASA scientists themselves have said that the hollow moon model fits the facts."
Is this the same NASA scientist that was quoted when drunk in point number 1? :)

We need the moon to live, without it we would have no seasons
Seasons are caused by the Earth's rotation around the sun, not by the moon. Tides are the only thing that the moon influences.

Some crazy claims in those quotes. Don't buy into it! :cheers:
 

pbaz

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pbaz said:
Well, it's not actually as "perfect" as you say. The distances between Earth, Moon and Sun are not constant. You can get "total" eclipses where the moon is too small in the sky to block out the sun entirely (annular eclipses); you can get eclipses where the moon is too large in the sky that you can't see flares; and you can get eclipses where the distances are about right and you get a "perfect" total eclipse. So let's not overstate this situation as "perfect" every time.
Just had an additional thought on this one: Most of the time, we don't even get total eclipses! :D The moon does not have a regular orbit around Earth, only rarely do all the paths line up and a small part of our planet gets a total eclipse.

Things could be a lot more perfect than they currently are:

1 - The moon could be a fixed distance from Earth so that every eclipse was "perfect" (ie. the moon and sun always were the same size in the sky, as observed from Earth).

2 - The orbit of the moon around the Earth could be much, much better so that a total eclipse happened once every month instead of the actual once every 18-24 months.
 

Mey

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End of the day God made everything so it doesn’t matter ^^

Also, God made Heavy Metal and saw that it was good, he said to play it louder than Hell, and we promised that we would.

And its never gona die!
 

tris-

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im glad pbaz could be arsed to type all that.
he typed what i nearly could be botherd to think :)
 

Battusai

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the reason why the sun forms a halo around the moon is not becouse its exactly the same size,remember a solar eclips happens in several nations at the same time and moves ,this is becouse it is just a shadow cast by the moon,the ring of light you see are the outer regions of the moon being lid ad noticable becouse you are in blackout,its like holding your and between your face and a flashlight,even tho you dont see the flashlight you can still see the light around your hand,this makes the moon seem as big as the sun
 

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