Which is more important, relationships or kids?

[Dakkath]

I was asked this question earlier and honestly couldn't make a choice (too damn hard) so I throw it open to you wise people (flattery sometimes works)...

If you could only have one of the two, which would be, a long and happy relationship or children of your own...

Why do I ask? Someone close to me is going through this scenario right now and it's tearing her apart. Worst thing is she's come to me for advice and I don't know how to help her...

 

[NikonL]

strong healthy relationship. bringing kids into anything less is just plain selfish.

 

[tris-]

if we go down to the roots; without kids we cant keep the race alive but without a relationship we cant keep kids alive.

so none is more important than the other imo, both equal

ive seen too many people on jeremy kyle have kids to make a relationship stronger though. i wouldnt advise that, as it puts extra strains on the whole thing!

come to think of it, couldnt your friend go on jeremy kyle? get a lie detector, DNA tests and family members to come on tv and scream. its the only way to solve most things im afraid.

 

[old.Tohtori]

With an option like; "To hell with both, I'm a loner and I love it!!!" how do you expect me to answer properly?

But, to be serious(Yes i can be serious you Seel bashing motherf*ckers), i have to ask a clarification on:

or children of your own...

Does this include adopted?

Because. I don't care for continuing Teh Seel legacy, which is given as an "honorary" title, more then a bloodline heritage. So getting kids, f*ck 'em. Not really my thing. So i'd choose a happy relationship over kids any day.

BUT. If adopted kids can be included into this equation, i'd happily take an orphan or two, or unwanted kids walking about, off the goverments hands and into a working enviroment. I like to think that providing born kids good homes is more important then some heritage/bloodline thingy. Though i can(somewhat) understand the manly/womanly need to "keep the name alive".

But, and here's the part people don't usually like, they'd have to be well over the age of "agoogoo a poop ma pants!", so around 5-6, just enough to get to know them at home before sending 'em off to school.

 

[tris-]

I like to think that providing born kids good homes is more important then some heritage/bloodline thingy. Though i can(somewhat) understand the manly/womanly need to "keep the name alive".

good attitude imo (WTF?!). my mam got married to my step dad about 13 yrs or so ago, couldnt ask for a better one imo. he doesnt care for bloodline, same for the whole family. i have about 5 blood relatives and 20 odd 'step' relatives and they treat me like im one of them

 

[Lamp]

Jaffa Cakes are more important than any of those !

 

[Dakkath]

I have to ask a clarification

Ok, I can clarify the situation a bit...

She's always desperatley wanted to experience the whole shebang. Pregnancy, birth and raising them, I've never known someone so excited by the whole idea. She's been vocal about this as long as I've known her (early teens)

It's a long term relationship and she adores him afaik...
Anyway, after a couple of years trying and failing, they went through every test in the book and found a problem on his side and nothing on hers...

Now he's gone all defensive, hurt pride etc and doesn't want her to get donor sperm etc as he's uncomfortable with raising a kid that's not his own.

From all advice they've been given, going the donor route would allow her to have everything she wanted but is worried she'd destroy their relationship in the process...

So it comes down to proceeding and risking the relationship, ending it all together and finding a guy who can/will give her what she wants (although she'd feel a bitch abandoning him coz he can't have kids) or giving up on the one thing she's always wanted...

 

[Lamp]

Bloody Hell, an agony aunt thread.
*Logs out*

 

[old.Tohtori]

Ok, I can cl*snip*lways wanted...

Actually meant a clarification on the "do adopted kids count in this question", but hell, i can answer that too.

The "hurt pride" and "not own kid" can be a convinient cop-out from having kids. I'd explore if he REALLY wanted them in the first place, as there's things men can do to NOT get women pregnant too. Even is she thinks they are trying. That's far fetched, probably not an issue, but one worth making sure of.

Still, the fact is, no man who wants kids, can be THAT adament on ONLY having their own sperm doing the job. You said "uncomfortable", which means, he might be willing to cope into it. So should make a 100% sure if he's adament or just, "iffy". No matter what, it's convinient for him at the moment.

About her and finding someone else. She wants kids, and that's one thing women either want or don't want. There's rarely a middleground. If she stayes with him, and KNOWS there's no way of getting kids, she WILL regret it down the line. If she and he decide to have a kid another route, then it's final. And if the guy can't cope it, he wasn't worth it to begin with.

Different opinion on having kids is a legit "quitting" reason.

 

[NikonL]

Ok, I can clarify the situation a bit...

She's always desperatley wanted to experience the whole shebang. Pregnancy, birth and raising them, I've never known someone so excited by the whole idea. She's been vocal about this as long as I've known her (early teens)

It's a long term relationship and she adores him afaik...
Anyway, after a couple of years trying and failing, they went through every test in the book and found a problem on his side and nothing on hers...

Now he's gone all defensive, hurt pride etc and doesn't want her to get donor sperm etc as he's uncomfortable with raising a kid that's not his own.

From all advice they've been given, going the donor route would allow her to have everything she wanted but is worried she'd destroy their relationship in the process...

So it comes down to proceeding and risking the relationship, ending it all together and finding a guy who can/will give her what she wants (although she'd feel a bitch abandoning him coz he can't have kids) or giving up on the one thing she's always wanted...

ouch. that's a mess

My gut reaction would be to say stay in the relationship though. If it was a case of the boyfriend saying "No, i don't want kids" then that would be different. But from what you said, it seems like he WANTS to give her what she wants, but simply cant?

Finding a relationship where you're both happy is hard enough. Finding one where your partner wants exactly what you want (as in this case) is even rarer. IMO she's done the hard part. Going back to square one and finding a new guy to have kids with sounds like a huge risk to me, because with her current mindset, it seems likely that she would rush into it... and start bringing up mention of kids within a year of a new relationship (in which case even the most secure guy would run a mile). Add to that the added pressure she might feel of "time running out".

And i hear what she says about her bf being defensive and not wanting to raise another persons child etc. But to be honest, i find that defensive stance to be perfectly justified. He must feel pretty fucking awful right now, like he's a failure of a man and cant give his gf what she wants etc. I think a little defensiveness is on the cards. Not to mention the fact that he's clearly got something to be defensive ABOUT. Because here's this girl talking to her friends about leaving him because of his failings?

I'm not sure how long ago all of this came about really, but my advice for now would be to wait for things to calm down, and maybe then when he is more relaxed, start talking to him again about this and see if he will change his mind.



p.s. bare in mind this advice is coming from A) a guy B) a young guy C) a guy that has never even considered thinking about children yet

 

[Calaen]

It is a very sensible and mature post Nikon. Without filling it full of fluff either.

Personally I would have liked the option of myself on the list as well.

If I am not happy then any relationship can feck off.

With regards to the initial question both partners have to be on the same page otherwise its a wasted relationship for one of them.

Me and my wife have a very good relationship, we are due our first child very soon (please god get it fucking out of her!!) We have already discussed the option of adopting a couple of children in a few years time just to give a child a chance.

The most important thing is communication, I would tell your friend to relax, the guy has taken a serious personal hit. In time if he wants children he will come round to the idea of adoption/sperm donors. He needs to think everything over and make the right decision for himself.

 

[Laddey]

I wouldn't have kids before i'm married, own my own house and a car. Having abit of stability to bring your child up is better than having 2 split parents.

I grew up chopping and changing between mam and dad, wouldn't have my kids do the same.

 

[Bugz]

Relationships come and go for most people unfortunately but children can stay with you for a lifetime.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Relationships come and go for most people unfortunately but children can stay with you for a lifetime.

Has one even gone from you yet?

Just kidding...a bit

But between me and Nikon, both taking either a positive or slightly negative way to say basicly the same thing, i think it was all said.

In short i could say:

Is she wants kids, the man doesn't, get another man.

 

[Bugz]

Has one even gone from you yet?

Just kidding...a bit

But between me and Nikon, both taking either a positive or slightly negative way to say basicly the same thing, i think it was all said.

In short i could say:

Is she wants kids, the man doesn't, get another man.

My parents broke up a short time ago yet they both still cherish their children. I was basing it on that

 

[old.Tohtori]

My parents broke up a short time ago yet they both still cherish their children. I was basing it on that

Yeah, was just pulling one on you. You(generally people) can't really say that a "good marriage" is the best way to raise a child, nor can you say that a broken marriage can't raise children well.

Can't also say that braking up is good for the children, but children, when they invade your life, are there for life. Or at least, 18 years, with a parol hearing at 16.

 

[Killswitch]

Interesting...

I've always believed that the needs of a child should take priority. I would love to have kids of my own at some point, but I'm worried that the mental problems I have would mean that I wouldn't be an effective parent and that any child I had might suffer because of that. It would be very selfish of me to have a child knowing that I might not be able to look after it properly so I'm pretty much resigned to never having any. This puts a lot of strain on relationships because a lot of women do want to have kids eventually and being forced to give up that dream because of their partners mental state is a very big deal.

In this situation, I guess the question is whether any child might suffer from the circumstances in which it's born. Would your friend really want to try to raise a child in a relationship where it might be resented or become a source of conflict? Neither is more important than the other in any kind of objective way, but it's a tough decision.

Speaking myself as (basically) a man who cannot have children because of problems (although mine aren't physical problems, it's similar) I would never expect a woman to give up her chance to have children of her own and I have always been honest about that. I guess the question is whether it's worth risking something amazing you have now and hope that you get something better. One question is that if she really loves her current boyfriend, would she want to raise children with someone else?

Really hard situation and there's no right or wrong answer...at least not one that I've found!

 

[Cirandi]

Well... I wouldn't want one without the other really. A relationship where i can't see my partner and i being together in 5 or 10 years isn't really a relationship where i'd like to bring kids into the equation.

My parents are divorced since i was just a toddler, and my mom remarried when i was around 2-3, and the "new" (only been like 25 years now heh) guy always been nice to me in every way. Much nicer then my biological father as a matter of fact.

I myself am in a relationship with a wonderful girl who has 2 boys who aren't mine. I don't really know if we're going to try and get a baby of our own, but we haven't really tried yet either... Either way, i'm happy to raise these 2 as my own, as i know that even if i'm not their biological father (Who, btw, is a total asshat) i can still make a difference in their lives for the better. I probably wouldn't have turned out very well if it wasn't for my stepfather.

I guess my point is that you have to do what's right for you in every relationship, and by you i mean both of you. If you have a totally differential view of what you want, there will be problems.

 

[Calaen]

Yeah, was just pulling one on you. You(generally people) can't really say that a "good marriage" is the best way to raise a child, nor can you say that a broken marriage can't raise children well.

Can't also say that braking up is good for the children, but children, when they invade your life, are there for life. Or at least, 18 years, with a parol hearing at 16.

Interesting, but then you have to split them again for example.

Married couple great relationship = good environment

Divorced couple split on good terms = More difficult on the children depending on age, but can still work if the communication is good.

Married couple that stay together for the children = very bad. Wrong example being set to the kids.

Divorced couple that hate each other = puts the kids in a bad situation as well.

At a rough guess I would imagine that a higher percentage of children brought up in a situation where the parents are not happy/split are a little messed up or go down the wrong path.

 

[Mas]

Theres too much pressure on having children these days to be considered "normal" with the house car etc and 2.4 children.

Got 2 good friends in long relationships that have never had or want to have children and they are living life still like they are teenagers. I myself have no desire to have children and am more content on making the most out of life with my partner.

With population and todays climate some may consider it a godsend not to bring children into the fast changing world that is heading into anarchy.

Overall its a personal choice between the 2, none is right or wrong just whatever the 2 people involved want.

 

[Overdriven]

With population and todays climate some may consider it a godsend not to bring children into the fast changing world that is heading into anarchy.

That's the same argument a couple of my friends actually give to me, when I ask why they don't want kids.

I'm all for the strong relationship (rather have that tbh) but eventually, kid (singular) would be nice I suppose.. If you've got the cash/mentality to bring one up I don't think it should matter about the whole `how the earth is` really.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Interesting, but then you have to split them again for example.

Married couple great relationship = good environment

Divorced couple split on good terms = More difficult on the children depending on age, but can still work if the communication is good.

Married couple that stay together for the children = very bad. Wrong example being set to the kids.

Divorced couple that hate each other = puts the kids in a bad situation as well.

At a rough guess I would imagine that a higher percentage of children brought up in a situation where the parents are not happy/split are a little messed up or go down the wrong path.

all those examples, well, again, can't say.

Honestly i don't think it effects kids as much as "the media" wants you to believe. Kids really don't give a f*ck one way or the other, as long as thye have a choice of where to live.

The mother/father "love" isn't as big an issue as in the movies/american "ideal" families. PArents together, parents split up, no change really.

About kids getting messed up because of it, is really a cop-out for the f*cking loonies.

 

[Calaen]

The mother/father "love" isn't as big an issue as in the movies/american "ideal" families. PArents together, parents split up, no change really.

Of course it is a big thing, parents are there to educate their children how to act in all aspects of life. Growing up in a family where the mother and father clearly dislike each other will have a a knock on effect.

 

[liloe]

I don't like children so I voted for #1

It makes more sense aswell tbh, cause if you have a really bad relationship, children will suffer from it.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Of course it is a big thing, parents are there to educate their children how to act in all aspects of life. Growing up in a family where the mother and father clearly dislike each other will have a a knock on effect.

Depends on the kids, how sensitive they are, what kinda kids they are, where they are from etc.

Not that clear cut.

the love thing ain't the same as educating them and/or whatnot. Kids really don't care THAT much as the parents seem to think they also arn't that sensitive.

 

[Basic_X]

I hopefully would never have to choose, but if there was no other choise, id choose the kids.

 

[pikeh]

i voted for relationship. but, i guess i havnt had kids yet so i cant really tell what thats like. i know i would love kids, but i cant imagine not sharing my future with the girl that makes me happiest. anything after that is a complete bonus.