Question When people really, really suck at things...

[old.user4556]

...and everyone knows it, but they personally think they are great - should you be blunt and tell them, or go along with the Emperor's New Clothes tactic?

 

[Trem]

I tell them they are shit, always have.

Samm loves me for it

 

[Aoami]

Tell them.

I've been playing guitar and writing songs for a long time and would love it if someone would just be blunt and tell me truthfully if they were any good so i could know whether to make a go of it.

 

[Thadius]

Perefect examplwe is the Arctic Monkeys, shame the NME is so far up their arse its unbelievable!

 

[Trem]

Perefect examplwe is the Arctic Monkeys, shame the NME is so far up their arse its unbelievable!

Word!

They are so god awful it hurts, they may be slightly better if the singer didn't sound like George Formby.

 

[old.Tohtori]

I tell them they are shit, always have.

Ofcourse YOU would.

Depends completely on the situation, if the people are looking for an opinion or not etc.

 

[Raven]

You don't have to put someone down to tell them they suck, constructive criticism goes a long way. Its better they find out early that they aren't cut out for something than waste everyone's time dragging it out.

 

[00dave]

Word!

They are so god awful it hurts, they may be slightly better if the singer didn't sound like George Formby.

Oh thank god, I thought I was the only one who didn't like them from what I hear on the radio. My friends band covered brian storm once and I couldn't believe how much better it sounded without it being sung with a thick accent.

While we're on that subject how do people feel about biffy clyro?

 

[Ctuchik]

Depends completely on the situation, if the people are looking for an opinion or not etc.

no it diesent. if someone tries to sing a song and i'm there and have to listen to it, u bet your arse i'l tell them to shut the fuck up if he/she has a shit singing voice...

 

[TdC]

I don't know about that. Tbh if someone's trying and they're enjoying themselves then why tell them to stfu? Nobody's forcing you to listen to it? However, I do feel that if someone is, say, a plasterer, and their work is shite, then their boss will tell them. Or the quality will quickly become apparent when people call them to redo their walls.

Fwiw, I was looking forward to the Arctic Monkey's new album, because I wanted to see what the Hand of Homme had done to their sound. I don't particularly rate the AM because I don't like the accent and their music is a bit too chaotic for me.

 

[old.Tohtori]

no it diesent. if someone tries to sing a song and i'm there and have to listen to it, u bet your arse i'l tell them to shut the fuck up if he/she has a shit singing voice...

Right, let's review that then;

Karaoke bar? You boo and tell them they suck?
Your GF singing in the shower(or some such)? You simply tell her she sucks and should never sing again? OR maybe her cooking sucks arse? Straight to the "i shall tell her she sucks" category?
School play? You stand up and point out mistakes in the Elementary schools rendition of Hamlet?

Finally...a 6 year old sweet little girl, singing 'cause she likes it and you bash her to the ground and tell her never-ever to sing as it's a crime against nature?

Like i said, all depends on the situation

 

[Chilly]

seel you suck. fo.

 

[mooSe_]

In general I would not say anything unless I know the person well enough that they wouldn't take offence, or in situations where the person's shit attempt is affecting me.

 

[Scouse]

Tell them.

I've been playing guitar and writing songs for a long time and would love it if someone would just be blunt and tell me truthfully if they were any good so i could know whether to make a go of it.

Record something and whack it on here. I'm pretty sure you'll run the whole gamut of opinions.

And, if you're shit*, we'll get to find out if all the people who voted are telling the truth



*not necessarily the preferred outcome



Edit: Oh, and btw, go for it. It matters both "fuck" and "all" what other people think.....

 

[TdC]

Edit: Oh, and btw, go for it. It matters both "fuck" and "all" what other people think.....

indeed. if people got put off by what people thought all the time we'd have nothing.

 

[Aoami]

this is true

 

[Trem]

While we're on that subject how do people feel about biffy clyro?

I love them, have done since they were wee bairns

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

Quite often the just-telling-it-how-it-is brigade are feeling negative and venting and the just telling it how it is becomes an excuse to be mean to someone.

I know someone who sings regularly and its like a dying animal that just won't bleed its last but I won't say anything because it would be spoiling their fun and really, its not hurting anyone. If this person was trying to make a go of being a professional then I might gently say something but there's no real need to be mean.

Although I agree as mentioned above its situational, its important to separate out the feelings of the person being critical because I bet you find that very rarely is it unbiased and neutral.

I haven't voted on the poll because I feel that its choice of wording indicates exactly the opinion of the original poster rather than being unbiased

 

[old.user4556]

If this person was trying to make a go of being a professional then I might gently say something but there's no real need to be mean.

... and that is the twist I would like to put on this thread.

I think that there is a difference between your missus singing in the shower for fun (for example), and someone singing like a dying cat whilst saying "yeah I'm going for pr0". I wouldn't ever tell a kid to give up skateboarding or whatever if they're not that great at it.

What got me thinking about this initially is that I heard a relative-of-mine's fianceé was starting up his own wedding photography business - "great!" was my response, hoping to shadow him or perhaps get involved in being an assitant, perhaps for some experience; plus it could be fun to do.

I got a look at the portfolio. The photos were fucking awful. You wouldn't give them away for free, let alone charge £2000 a day. They're underexposed, badly composed, clearly sub standard equipment (probably a point and shoot), no creative eye or creative posing going into the shots, naff photoshopping, squint horizons etc.

Tell the truth and say "dude, please - you can't charge for these!" or say "absolutely fantastic, go for it, you're awesome" ?

I'm off to a gig tonight to see my mate's wee brother's band play. They too, are also complete crap, but he's a great guy and I go to all their gigs in support - he truly believes they're awesome and have a chance of being signed. I nod and say "totally mate, one chance at life, give it your best" but inside I wanna say "guys, please, you're not gonna get signed". This isn't because they're not my taste, it's because their drummer stops drumming half way through songs, or plays the wrong drum beat to the wrong song forcing them to stop half way through and the guitarists turn to say "you're playing the wrong song" even after years of playing together.

It leads to some fairly nasty behind the back discussions about it. I think I always ebb on the side of caution and tell a white lie, it's not my problem afterall.

 

[Ctuchik]

I don't know about that. Tbh if someone's trying and they're enjoying themselves then why tell them to stfu? Nobody's forcing you to listen to it?

i've had to a couple of times.

like i said, if i have to listen to it i let them know if i like it or not.

and so far very few ppl have actually been offended by it.

ofc theres the right way and the wrong way of saying that they suck.

but to give you one example of a time where i had to sit and listen...

at my sisters wedding one of her friends suddenly decided to sing a tribute song. and it was so bad everyone in the church started to cringe...

and you just dont up and walk away in a situation like that. atleast not if u want to be welcome at your sisters house again...

no i didnt stand up and screamed at her to shut up, but i did make it very clear afterwards that she REALLY needed to learn how to sing, and that i really didnt fancy hearing her try again. tho it wasnt so much her bad singing that was the problem, it was her attempts at finding the right tone, and failing miserably at it.

yes it was cute that she came up with the idea, but i'd rather listen to a violin newbie then her singing..

if they dont know they are bad singers someone should tell him/her. if nothing else then for the sake of making them try to learn!

/edit: but if they KNOW they cant sing and still do it publically they should have something hard thrown at them for that sake alone...

 

[TdC]

to each their own. I think I'm more of a thought that counts person. That doesn't mean I don't have an opinion though

 

[Bullitt]

Tell them.

I've been playing guitar and writing songs for a long time and would love it if someone would just be blunt and tell me truthfully if they were any good so i could know whether to make a go of it.

You should play Guitar Hero instead, it's alot easier

 

[old.Tohtori]

Well it is like always; being "bluntly honest" is an excuse to being an a-hole

Ctuchik; you really need some kind of an enter key limiter or something, that was a f*cking pain to read.

 

[Bodhi]

Word!

They are so god awful it hurts, they may be slightly better if the singer didn't sound like George Formby.

You mean he makes sizzling noises and the occasional tick as the grill gets really hot?

 

[old.user4556]

What got me thinking about this initially is that I heard a relative-of-mine's fianceé was starting up his own wedding photography business - "great!" was my response, hoping to shadow him or perhaps get involved in being an assitant, perhaps for some experience; plus it could be fun to do.

I got a look at the portfolio. The photos were fucking awful. You wouldn't give them away for free, let alone charge £2000 a day. They're underexposed, badly composed, clearly sub standard equipment (probably a point and shoot), no creative eye or creative posing going into the shots, naff photoshopping, squint horizons etc.

Tell the truth and say "dude, please - you can't charge for these!" or say "absolutely fantastic, go for it, you're awesome" ?

I found this on the Torygraph yesterday:

Couple sue wedding photographer - Telegraph

£1450 for a pile of shit photos?!? No wonder they sued the cnut!

What is with people jumping on the wedding photography bandwagon? I mean fucking seriously. In addition to my relative's shit photos, a bloke I used to work beside caught wind through my Facebook that I dabled in photography. He asked for some advice on "F numbers", so I offered to go round to his place to talk him through some basic stuff. Turns out, he got himself a cheap DSLR with a couple of kit lenses; good news, someone to bond with . He basically knew nothing, didn't know about ISO or different apertures settings, or how to work it in manual mode (always wondered why his pictures were too dark etc.), only used it on Auto mode. He showed me some of his stuff which was basically really shit, but you have to start somewhere and I said the best thing to do was to get out there and keep getting as much practice as he could. I also pointed him in the direction of some websites and good books to read up on.

To my fucking astonishment, two weeks later, he has his own "Jon Dough Photography" website (obviously not Jon Dough, but you know what I mean) with a selection of his finest shit photos including... TADA! a wedding! These shots are awful, quite awful and clearly done at a mate's wedding where there was also another proper photographer present. I figured it was a site to simply put some pictures up, but no - there is a contact number for enquiries about "business".

I'm astouned at the conceit surrounding the whole subject.

Am I being sour grapes about this? Or has the photography world gone fucking mad with inexperienced arseholes buying DSLRS and then proclaiming to be pr0, charging for shit photos?

Given the Telegraph article, I'm thinking the latter.

 

[tris-]

my aunty and uncle had the worst photographer in history for their wedding.
i dont know much about most things but this guys equipment wasnt much better than my digital camera. he lense wasnt wide enough to fit everyone in without taking more than one shot. he was using a video camera like something out of "youve been framed".
half way through the day he was sat on his own out the back drinking. then he charged tham a grand and made them wait a month so he could put the pics on to a dvd.

 

[TdC]

To my fucking astonishment, two weeks later, he has his own "Jon Dough Photography" website (obviously not Jon Dough, but you know what I mean) with a selection of his finest shit photos including... TADA! a wedding! These shots are awful, quite awful and clearly done at a mate's wedding where there was also another proper photographer present. I figured it was a site to simply put some pictures up, but no - there is a contact number for enquiries about "business".

I go to music festivals in my journo capacity with a mate who is a very good "semi-pro" concert photographer. The last one I went to, to my shock, I noticed that one or two of the people in the photo-pit either had compact cameras (ZOMG!), or low-end DSLRs.

Seeing as there was a quite limited number of photo-press passes, I felt really bad about these amateurs taking up space. The chappy with the compact even dared to use his flash until he got a talking to from the staff. I mean, wtf right. Flashing into smoke is like using your high-beam car lights in a fog, eg pointless. This means he was not thinking about what he was doing, and had his camera on full-auto.

I mean, concerts, eg smoke, low light, lots of red and blue backlight stuff. You *need* good kit to come up with even marginally decent work. Imo if you're going to deliver stuff that is going to suck by default, then what's the point? Sure, photo stuff is expensive, but getting decent kit isn't that hard with the online-retailers and all, and if you're a bit strapped for dosh you can get awesome stuff second hand for not a lot. Back when I was a photography student, I went to all the second hand fairs (when I got my motor winder, and a lot of good lenses that the pros were dumping so they could get the next best thing and stuff).

 

[old.user4556]

Does he do freelance stuff Teeds or does he work directly for a mag/paper thing?

I've seen some concert photo work over on the Pentax forums and it looks like very hard work to get right.

 

[TdC]

I said semi-pro because he does it besides his job. he does work for a UK agency, Dutch ones and a Dutch music/concert blog thingy (where we work together)