What's up with Teamleader reports and the demanding?

[old.Arnor]

Arnor: That zerks go slightly downhill in damage from Mid to High level seems established but at High level does your damage really leave you in a poor position? Some apparently think so. I know zerker damage shifts alot from zerker to zerker and yes the screenshots that leak out to us common men are the top end ones but bollocks that they are low in damage, bollocks that other realm classes can achieve the same regular damage with the same speed weapons.

Honestly, no. my damage doesnt leave me in a poor position. My main complain is the crits while frenzied, they go from 1-99% which means that if I hit for 320 with my main while frenzied, I can crit for anything from 40-310. So its really a matter of luck i think.

Theres nothing worse than hitting for 300, critting for 50, offhand for 140, crit 20 and then dying, because you know, if only your crit had been right youd have smacked the poor fecker down ^^


Then again, its nothing better than bamschmacking some poor felller for 300+280+140+130 in one KAZAAM!

 

[klavrynd]

Oh, and I've hit for more than 1000dmg with my main hand

1000+ mainhand implies at least 500 basedamage and a nearly 100% crit.

my main hand caps on 471 with capped str (200)

my max damage ever lies somewhere around 900 with ubercrits

 

[Tigerius]

Arnie is a troll, I guess that accounts for alot of the differences. Though IMO a Norse should still buffed have over 500 cap.

I can agree that the variances are a bit wrong for a zerker when "guaranteed" crits is what you zerk for, and a 20% crit could in some ways be seen as failing to live up to that guarantee. I do think there is value to the improved frenzy suggested RA, or convert so that Mastery of Pain decreases crit variance for zerkers because frankly it doesnt work 100% well for you now.

As for Heroes.. bleh. The one thing that should take down their top end damase is poor styles but being hit by them one begins to wonder.

 

[Arlone]

Originally posted by flugo


1000+ mainhand implies at least 500 basedamage and a nearly 100% crit.

my main hand caps on 471 with capped str (200)

my max damage ever lies somewhere around 900 with ubercrits

I don't understand you really. you think a 300+ hit, with a 1-hander is just decent?? I cap at 600ish (597 or so) with a 5.5 speed polearm, and I generally hit for anything between 300-600 in RvR (with very VERY slow swings). you're saying you arre not really happy unless you do almost the same damage as me, but with double as fast weapons (and two for that matter)?

I wear plate and I use THE most damaging melee-weapon in the game, yet I fear for my life whenever a zerger sticks to me in a battle. Hits for 200-300 (main) and 60-70 offhand is alot of damage...

It's not the balance between one class vs. another that is important anyway. Make zerkers even better and you render 3 classes totally useless in mid for example? Realmbalance .. every class has something to offer and zerkers do that with high and fast damage.

 

[Ragnarok1978]

My skald is very lucky to get off any hit close to 300 dmg (More like 200 is the norm) on even cons, helluve lot less on oranges (Damn all you lvl 50s, hehe) and that's with a 2hander.

So why complain if you get around 400 or more damage off as a zerk? Hehe

 

[stu]

Ironically this thread has turned into a proto-whinefest, much like VN boards.

Seriously though, I can't work out the TL position. Some of them (the aforementioned aphex and garock, for example) seem to do a "good" job, and some of them (sheena, the now ex-Thane TL) do not do such a good job. But when you look at the reports they submit, they don't seem all that different in style/content/etc. Which leads me to believe, whilst the TLs do a great job of highlighting/categorising/collating/reporting the issues with classes for Mythic, the report itself doesn't seem to make much impact on changes made. If it did, you wouldn't have report after report after report from some classes - I'll take Thanes as an example - highlighting actual bugs with their class over and over (and no I'm not talking about debatable 'class balance' issues, I'm talking about indisputable bugs, like in the Thane's case the STR buff), and yet still being ignored.

"Balancing" classes is a matter for discussion. For every person that says "xyz is gimped" another person will say "no it's not it's fine". Which is fair enough. But when proper bugs/problems are shown in reports for months on end, and still not fixed, the only conclusion you can come to is that the TLs are just there to appease the masses.

 

[klavrynd]

I wear plate and I use THE most damaging melee-weapon in the game,

Indeed, it was allways said that berserkers give up defense for extra damage, and the defense difference between plate and studded is huge. Allso, polearm has the approx best styles in the game : Defender's Rage (medium bleed,low fatigue, very high damage , hit chance to hit) and it's followup Defender's Revenge (low fatigue, very high to-hit, long duration stun) which are just insane.



on the damage issue: i don't know which kind of poler you are, but if you dont hit for 400 on the armor that is vulnerable to your damage type, do you call it a decent hit?

 

[Arlone]

Originally posted by flugo


Indeed, it was allways said that berserkers give up defense for extra damage, and the defense difference between plate and studded is huge. Allso, polearm has the approx best styles in the game : Defender's Rage (medium bleed,low fatigue, very high damage , hit chance to hit) and it's followup Defender's Revenge (low fatigue, very high to-hit, long duration stun) which are just insane.



on the damage issue: i don't know which kind of poler you are, but if you dont hit for 400 on the armor that is vulnerable to your damage type, do you call it a decent hit?

I would expect to hit for more than 400 on vuln armor yes but then I'm, as I said, using a very slow weapon. During time a zerker would eaily outdamage any poler, but not in first swing.

About defenders Rage. Yes, it is a good style but it's ONLY useful in a 1vs1-situation since opening is: target performs a style on you and it's quite hard to time these things correctly in a battle where 4 guys are beating you down...

Since I didn't make this char for 1vs1's I'll be respeccing in patch. Poles are not as zergfriendly and groupfriendly as s/s...

anyway, I would think zerkers have most damage-over-time in the whole game. Your problem is rather that you're dead before getting 2 swings off because of the low defence. This was a choice you made tho - to trade defence for even more damage. Ask mythic to up your damage even more and get to wear cloth - ask them for chain and have damage reduced.

 

[klavrynd]

and it's quite hard to time these things correctly in a battle where 4 guys are beating you down...

backupstyles make this so much easier

This was a choice you made tho - to trade defence for even more damage.

Damage does not scale to the loss of defense, and most certainly doesnt in teddybear mode.


Let's see what advanced evade does, hope it helps a bit, otherwise i'm decaring zerks totally death

 

[SilverHood]

read the minstrel one for a laugh... 15 sec insta stun

if you want a pet hamster start by asking for the moon on a stick, failing that, a pony.

I've read most of the thane TL reports, every single one of them reasonable, asking Mythic to give thanes what they need: a boost.
We trade hp and pure melee damage for stormcalling, and well, the tradeoff isn't worth it.
We need to do more damage, or have more defensive ability...
she never asked for anything unreasonably, only something which would give a small boost in RvR... what do mythic do... improve us slightly in PvE, but not in RvR...

besides, read the TL reports from day one. Mythic stopped listening the day they announced work on SI.... they don't give a rats arse whether Infils are kings of the field, or whether Hib chanters are overpowered.... people play and pay.... nothing else gets through to them..... their game, they can do whatever the fuck they like... its not like we're gonna stop playing? we'll all be here until SW:G or shadowbane (if it works). Then we're off, and mythic has made its money. End of story.

 

[[SC]Tzikas[Mid]]

I just read the zerker TL, and imho the guy has no idea about two things ... a) How to play a zerker and b) What he's talking abut

 

[Tigerius]

Flugo: Zerker HP isn't that low, your melee defensive may be but so much of todays damage is done by casters anyway. It isn't fully true to say that it doesn't scale because it really depends on the situation. In a 1on1 vs another tank maybe it doesn't.

Silverhood: I listed the Thane reports as an example of quite humble requests. As for Minstrel asking for 15secs it was almost meant as a joke spawning of the "ask for alot, get a little" thing. Basically he wanted his 6 second Stun to be 6 secs and not 2 secs after all reductions.

Tzikas: Would be funny if you elaborated on that, being a zerker yourself.

 

[old.Arnor]

So why complain if you get around 400 or more damage off as a zerk? Hehe

Ehm, because I dont get chain/speed/mezz/dmg-add/hp-regen(know it sucks, but still)/resist chants/dd's



Ive heard that zerks got the best hp in the game or something like it, with the second best str/con buff and the second best baseline con buff I have 2230 hps. Base hps is 1630

 

[SilverHood]

nice hps.

My thane has 1237 hps unbuffed. Seen lvl 40 armsmen with more.

 

[klavrynd]

I just read the zerker TL, and imho the guy has no idea about two things ... a) How to play a zerker and b) What he's talking abut

Garock has at least 2 level 50 berserkers, does tons of testing, basically spends most of his gaming time in aqcuiring information so he doesn't tell bullsh*t, and gets input from allmost the entire berserker population in the world. You just got your zerk to 50 and been to emain a few times, where do you get the nerve to talk about him like that?

Maybe you're used to playing your char fully buffed by a full aug sham and run into absolute mongs all the time, but that is no base for a TL report, and therefor imho not a base to say it's utter bull.

Zerks have pure melee hp like a warrior, whereas thanes are on some kind of hybrid table.

ps : i have +/- 1620 hp unbuffed as norse

 

[Hulbur]

Arghhhhhhhhh

Behave yourself one and all.

This thread started out like a really nice and constuctive discussion and has turned into some ugly whine-a-lot thingy

About the TL's

2 thumbs way way up for all of them. AFAIK they are people like you and me, unpaid and working to make the game better in some ways. A lot of their reports contains wishlists that would be nice from their perspective, but as the TL said himself, its hard to know what kind of impact that change to your class, would have on all the other classes.

Beserker is a good example. Lets say we up the LA styles/dam. Great for all you beserkers out there, maybe even deserved ( I wouldn't know - never played a zerker) but what happens to the shadowblades? I play a shadowzerker and boy i really dont feel we need more dam output right now. I can still laugh myself silly when i hit someone for (IMHO) tons of damage with a 1 handed weapon. Sometimes even more then 2 handed hammer wielding skald can hit for.

Making changes is a process better taken slowly and in very small steps. No one likes it when it goes in the usual buff - then nerf - then buff again cycle.

And I really don't understand why you beserkers cry havoc so much.

Dont know much about how you do in solo PvE - never played the class
Dont know much about how you do in solo RvR - again i have never played the class.

I DO know that I love to have beserkers in my group when in RvR. That is just pure melee damage waiting to happen, and compare that statement to so many other classes that complain about how useless they feel in groups in RvR, you all aint got it so bad.

And this is not a solo game. Especially not for a class that has no speed or stealth. Its all about teamwork and you zerkers are doing just fine in groups.

Anyways. TL's keep up the good work, a lot of us still appreciate what you are trying to do (for free) for the game we all love and care for.

and I won't even start going into how much the skald RA suck