What's happened to Mids Honour

[redfern]

Last night albs took Bled and Nott. Then they tried to take Hlid, but we fought them off. Then we retook Nott and went for Blend. After some furious fighting hibbies attacked from behind killing enough mids for albs to zerg out.

Under normal circumstances we would have blocked amg, and have retaken Bled very fast. BUT most of the mids went to Emain. Five minutes after we lost first retake attempt there were 80 not anon mids in Emain and we were not enough even to hold amg. Guys that sucks big time - That's the way albs or hibs fight - it was never the way we usually defends OUR realm.

In relation this I also think it's about time that both FoM and WR alliance leaders show they got the balls to order ppl into battle.

 

[Forau]

If you don't attack, they get bored. When they get bored, they leave. When they leave, you can retake the keep without defenders. If you enjoy keep sieges that's fine, go do that, but don't try to force it on someone else.

 

[old.FIN]

stubbe , thats albs tactics =)

as every1 starts to think like that, game gets bored , and it always got me to state where i was bored as feck.

nothing to do with honor though

 

[schinkaar]

think he said that he didnt enjoy it, but the ppl who do should go there. I dont think you should force anyone out taking keeps either, its not fun to start with and theres little point to do it, as stubbe pointed out.

 

[Xandax]

Originally posted by Forau
If you don't attack, they get bored. When they get bored, they leave. When they leave, you can retake the keep without defenders.

This is true yes.
But by removing one major element from RvR reduces this game turns into nothing more then roaming around Emain, duing unorganized encouters with various zergs/stealtherzergs.

It is the static sceanrios where the fun of RvR shines, who (that was there) don't remember Bloody Bleedmeer, or the epic battles of 100s vs 100s of Albs and Mid in Jamtland, during the whole of one Sunday. Defences and attacks on organised enemies are (IMO) far more fun then simply running in transit from MG to MG and likes.



Also the probing of our defences in regards of taking keeps can very well be an indicator of relic raids, it is a well-known and used tactic, especially against Albion.



Wasn't online when they took them it seems, otherwise I'd be out there, and would have tried getting guildmembers to join.

 

[arrakeen]

Originally posted by Xandax
This is true yes.
But by removing one major element from RvR reduces this game turns into nothing more then roaming around Emain, duing unorganized encouters with various zergs/stealtherzergs.

It is the static sceanrios where the fun of RvR shines, who (that was there) don't remember Bloody Bleedmeer, or the epic battles of 100s vs 100s of Albs and Mid in Jamtland, during the whole of one Sunday. Defences and attacks on organised enemies are (IMO) far more fun then simply running in transit from MG to MG and likes.



Also the probing of our defences in regards of taking keeps can very well be an indicator of relic raids, it is a well-known and used tactic, especially against Albion.



Wasn't online when they took them it seems, otherwise I'd be out there, and would have tried getting guildmembers to join.

Yes you and me think thats more fun, and probaly allso lots of others, but if people like roaming emain more, doing FG fights, thats what they should do

Imo if you stop having fun there are no reason to play, so if keep fights aint you idea of fun why do it. Im sure all the people in emain would come asap if there was serious talk about relic raid etc.

Just accept that people are differnet and like different things

 

[Khalen]

Was fun watching loads of mids getting AEed by some wizzies. Haven't had the opportunity yet to play this game in big zergs with massive AE but yesterday I saw my pc does just fine

Now if I would have only made it inside past the 100 Mids blocking the gatekeeper I might have had some fun too

 

[uglymug]

We all know real RvR is in emain and only the real RvR guilds spend all day running from mmg to hmg. Keeptakes aren't RvR, they're boring and best left to the idiots that like doing it, most of the times these are the same as the people that seem to enjoy PvE to some extent (freaks!).

True RvR is wtfpning the enemy and laughing at yer realmmates if they die trying, or better yet yell at them for leeching if they get it into their skulls to come and help you.

RvR is men, REAL men, REAL HARD men ... keeptakes are for weakling that don't understand the true purpose of this game.

Namely to get teh arpeez!!1

/end sarcasm

 

[lpep]

I was one of the few that did stay till the very early hours of the morning,was nice to see Np come kill the fg + hib guild grp that was raoming round....

 

[redfern]

I do agree that RvR is the true purpose of this game. However holding on to our keeps is a part of that purpose. Don't give me any of that shit that real men are those fighting 1 on 1 in Emain - that attitude is what ruins the game. 1 on 1 is fine by me, but there's more to it than that. In my opinion there's no point in head on clashes with the enemy. We often lack more finesse in the game - adapting to enemy strategy, taking precausions and so on. There's no greater joy than to lure an overwhelming enemy force into a trap and annihilate them - playing cat vs. mouse etc. I'm not saying that zerging is the answer - it's not - what i'm saying is that a little more organisation is not out of the way. This could be solved by always having a public chat going whereever we fight. ppl are not leeching but are able to aid eachother where needed. Regarding leeching, I have a little event that happened to me. I have a 41 SB, and went to Emain one day. I know a 41 don't do that much damage, but my tactic is to unstealth enemy stealths on sight by atacking - naturally only if I see mids nearby who I then count on helping me. One day I saw a infil chasing one of our hunters. He was moving in my direction so I pa'ed him and stuck on him. The a zerger came running out of nowhere and started flaming me for leeching. That attitude I find truly braindead.

 

[Weeping Willow]

Elitism isn't ruining the game imo. Fg vs Fg guild fights in RvR is the thing that makes this game worth playing, PvE and Keep raids aren't imo.

People shouldn't try to force people to take keeps, take relics, defend relics etc since people pay for this game and they can play it the game they want.

Remember on a MUD I used to play where wizards actually told you how to play *shudder* but since I wasn't paying and it was _their_ game it was little I could do.

 

[svartmetall]

Originally posted by redfern
I do agree that RvR is the true purpose of this game.

I don't. A lot of people enjoy PvE and don't see RvR as the "endgame" or the "point" of DAOC, especially given how overrun RvR often is with /tauntspamming little 12-year-olds and their wtfpwnz0ring attitude bullshit.
RvR is just part of DAOC.
RvR is often not actually very much fun - I believe fun is the real point of DAOC, what with it being a game and all.

that attitude is what ruins the game.

Having people SCREAMING IN CAPS in /as that everyone MUST DROP ANYTHING THEY'RE DOING AND RVR NOW! isn't much fun either. Not everyone is an RvR muppet by any means.

There's no greater joy than to lure an overwhelming enemy force into a trap and annihilate them - playing cat vs. mouse etc.

Agreed.
Actually we had some great trap-style stuff running in BG3 last night, was a lot of fun and generally good-natured on both sides (no Hibs to be seen apart from one very unlucky solo Luri who got steamrollered).

The zerger came running out of nowhere and started flaming me for leeching. That attitude I find truly braindead.

You're right, it is. If you ARE RvRing then there is no such thing as "your" enemy...they're enemies to all of us.

 

[Carlos Bananos]

everyone has thier own reasons for liking the game, some ppl (myself included) think keep takes are boring.


I'd rather plvl in lair or smth.

 

[asorek]

Originally posted by redfern
[B In relation this I also think it's about time that both FoM and WR alliance leaders show they got the balls to order ppl into battle. [/B]

umm yea alright..now you just look stupid..of course they can ORDER people about..its THEIR game afterall..oh wait no it isnt.. we all pay the same each month so we can do as we please.

 

[Phuze]

tbh im not a fan of keep sieges etc either..

but you did remind me of that time around 6months (??) ago when the ALBs got a CS up in Nottmorr.. Mids went and defended Blendrake.. the battle was rolling back and forth between those two keeps ALL day.. I must admit that days was pretty fun.. one of the only nice epic keep type battles i've ever been in tho.

 

[uglymug]

wonder how many of you saying you don't like keeptakes would change their minds if there were a decent amount of RP to be gained by doing keeptakes/defence

 

[Rulke-RM]

I used to enjoy keep attacks/defenses back in the days when there was only 1 or 2 assassin classes on either side.

That and the fact defended keeps are nearly always level 10, with dozens of the new cheaper trebs in the courtyard means that both sides will number in the 100s. Low FPS jerk-a-thons ain't my idea of fun.

Alb seems to have a much higher percantage of casters also, whereas the high savage population of mid (which excels in fg vs fg) really blows goats at keep takes.

One of my best memories i'll take from this game were some of the early fights at bledmeer, both the infamous Bloody Bledmeer fight, and the time a few mids held off a huge alb force for 6½ hours, the albs breaking doors down, killing us all but dying to the lord. I remember getting back 1st and just getting the outer door to close just as the albs ran up the hill

Gone too are the days of 1 or 2 FG taking a keep and then defending it vs 10 times their numbers.

 

[kaod]

Originally posted by redfern
In relation this I also think it's about time that both FoM and WR alliance leaders show they got the balls to order ppl into battle.

Noticing that you got a bit of flak for this comment, for what it's worth here is my opinion on this matter:

If neither FoM nor WR alliances have this kind of mandatory setup, maybe you should try to form a guild/alliance where all those who wish to be part of it will take such an order.

For our part. Hand Of Loki could never do that, even with organised ninja raids, and as myself or any of the other GM's never made that a requirment for membership, it would have been unacceptable for us to enforce.

Cutting Edge were always one of the most reliable ones in Mid for realm defence, and at least from an external point of view, all members always ran to the same drum beat.

Derianna was accused of being some kind of dictator when trying to setup a new rvr guild with strict rules.
I didn't fit in with those rules and guidelines, I didn't apply. (Not sure Deri would take me anyhow ;p )
Some people might want to play the game that way however, and if they do, who are any of us to criticise?

Good luck to them.

So it seems there are likeminded people out there already, maybe you should seek them out, and I wish you the best of luck doing so.

 

[-evull-]

Well,

We, Cutting Edge, used to care until about one month ago or so.
We had Bledmeer claimed, as usual, and spent shitloads of money repairing and upgrading doors.

As we, often alongside Ardamel and a small crew, cleared Bledmeer many a time, it got very boring and very expensive.
Upgrading/repairing doors costs alot with daily attacks and it aint much fun to do when no-one, except from a few, cares.

So, I'm quite sure that Cutting Edge will join you defending the realm if people in general show a tad better attitude towards it.

peace out

 

[xajorkith]

Originally posted by redfern
In relation this I also think it's about time that both FoM and WR alliance leaders show they got the balls to order ppl into battle.

I actually take deep offence to this statement.

I (Corleth/Xajorkith) as an Officer of WR was screaming my lungs out on /as right from the very start of the Albion incursion. You must know this as you are in the same Alliance. In fact probably most Mids were sick to death of my ranting on /as to order my fellow alliance warriors into defensive combat (At least it was not in caps Svart! ). I was also extremely vocal in the /cg. I was the first person on the scene (with Raud at Nott) and the last person to leave.

As a member of the WR Alliance you could have raised these issues in the White Rose Alliance forums or pm’d a WR Officer or GM. I have also noticed that under RedFern you have not made one single post on the WR forums. Whining about WR (and FoM) on here does you no favours. If you wish to make further complaints could you please use more private methods as airing dirty laundry does no good.

At the end of the day people are playing a game, they play for “their own” enjoyment, there are those that like to PL chars, those that craft, those that wander endlessly backwards and forwards from MMG – AMG all day (yawn zzzz), then there’s those like me who are Role Players, who love strategy & tactics, foxing the enemy and all else that comes with keep takes and relic raids.

The WR Alliance has a diverse mix of guilds not all will provide troops to defend our realm, but all contribute in some way e.g. Black Company very rarely comes out of Emain, but the BP’s they earn Keep Fens at level 10. Many non Emain guilds don’t get enough BP’s to maintain keeps at level 10 (e.g. Black Shadows).

I would dearly love to see more keep taking, in fact if I was to change one thing about DAoC, it would be to “uninvent” the whole emain rp ego thing. Those that fight in Emain give away as many RP’s as they take, they make the enemy stronger.

The Emain guilds (as they are high RR) can so easily turn things around in Keep Warefare, NP showed up in Odin’s last night and order was immediately restored. When they suicided the Mids got slaughtered (low RR). When Mids take keeps in Hib I would love to see the Emain guilds occasionally help when the Hibs turn up to take it back, LA etc give as many RP’s outside one of their keeps as they do in the bowl.

All I can ask is that the next time a call to arms is announced on /as is that a few more Mids will be sympathetic and join in, at the very least only to save their fellow warriors from my /as whines & rants.

Perhaps all those that like keep takes all join one guild and Alliance…..

This post is my own opinions which may differ from WR GMs.

 

[Loveless]

It all depends what roll you play in a group.

Myself as an aug healer find keep taking/defending to be very dull, I dont have anything to add to the situation other than heals and clerity (when doing doors + lord).

So, I'd have no reason to go on a keep retake/defence because they dont appeal to me (neither does being farmed by 4fg+ of alb, but its the game we play )

 

[old.CrazyMuppet]

Lots of albs rerolled mid and took the alb mentality with them.

Midgard has about the same structure and almost the same size as albion now so this was bound to happen.

 

[infozwerg]

i really dont know what you are talking about, but i personally never had any honor myself.