What will RvR be like with New Frontiers?

[Balbor]

any ideas?\
I'm not talking about whats been said but more like theory stuff, ie

Being able to teleport to keeps, and enemy location showing up on map will mean keeps are a lot harder to take as you will need more people. This in turn will mean relics are harder to take as you need to take keeps get to them.

 

[swords]

A couple of things will be different:

Less major bottlenecks ie: Milegates.
One of the major causes of the srtupidly large zergs in Emain i reckon, there be more freedom of movement for FG's whihc should mean a decrease in those stupidly large zergs. Noobs will probably travel BG'd but they
ll probably try take kees as opposed to being able to camp a MG and piss off the enemy realms in that sense.

The ability to see where major battles are raging and what keeps are under siege is a good thing for two reasons:

1. It allows those who enjoy keep assault/defence and large scale battles to find them easier.

2. it allow those who prefer to travel FG to know where the zergs are going to be and provide the option of going around them.

The new terrain features will allow some shrewd groups to ambush roamers and will give a distinct advantage.

It looks at the moment that it actually adds a bit more tactical diversity than the usual port>MG gank die release repat.
It also allows people to get straight into the thick of it as opposed to the dull waiting for port crap atm

There will still be zergs, there will still be flames but there will be more importantly...Tactics!

 

[Balbor]

i don't think 1fgs will have it better, they work atm by farming people coming out of PKs and having to go though MGs, with that gone how/where are 1fg goups gonna find people to role over.

 

[Kidain]

i don't think 1fgs will have it better, they work atm by farming people coming out of PKs and having to go though MGs, with that gone how/where are 1fg goups gonna find people to role over.

A classic...
This is EXACTLY why they have had to impliment Frontiers.
To stop this sort of stupid thinking...."Not fair I ve got no one to pharm and get L33T on now boo hoo hoo"
Tuff. Learn to play properly in fair sized Group V Group combat.
Albs are gonna be in real trouble when they can no longer pop and out numbers peeps 8 - 1. They may actually have to try :touch:
K.

 

[Casualgamer]

Tuff. Learn to play properly in fair sized Group V Group combat.

Sorry, but where did Mythic first write that group versus group was playing "properly" or that it was only this sort of fighting which was "fair" in some way ? I must have missed it.

I only ask because when I got the game, I saw all this stuff about keeps and relics and territory, and large-scale encounters between whole realms. And when I saw that Mythic are planning the fight-locator in Frontiers, I assumed that it was precisely because they want more people to be able to find fights and join in, rather than avoid them. I tended to think that it's a perfectly legitimate response of less hardcore players to increase their numbers when faced with FGs who have the time to get their RAs, artifacts and MLs for their fotm groups. If there'd been some decision made somewhere that the only way people should go to RvR is in one of these groups, and should avoid any larger-scale fighting, then somehow it slipped past me.

While I'm on this subject, why is it that those fotm groups who claim that they only want the "proper" challenge of a "fair" fight with another fg, still seem to hang around Emain, where most of the casual players go for their RvR ? Why is it that when I'm there in some random group or /bg, the fotm groups still come and squash us, even though we're obviously no challenge at all ? Because it just doesn't seem to add up, as they could always go fight somewhere else against like-minded people from the other realms. Yet there they are, again, in Emain. I must be missing something. Naturally, I'm now ashamed that I don't play the game the way someone else thinks I should. I'll go beat myself up immediately. :kissit:

 

[Archeon]

Frontier Theory 1: Everyone (Re: The 5% - 10% of players who use the forums) will hate Frontiers because of the change to game and the way it will take less 'skill' and encourage zergs, etc, etc. They'll leave and everyone will be happy because they were whiny little bitches anyway.

Frontier Theory 2: Having to use l33t Tict4cs will melt peoples brains. Frontiers (and Mythic) will be responsible for killing millions!!

Frontier Theory 3: Regardless of the changes people will still circulate around a specific area of Emain (because heaven forbid they go somwhere else and risk not finding anyone to kill for maybe 5minutes!) not much will change except that with the new 'radar' people will know when to dash out of their hiding places near 'Area X' and gank the people fighting.

Frontier Theory 4: Frontiers will encorage large scale RvR, thus breaking down the need for 'optimal' 1fg setups - removing FoTM gank groups from the game in all but the 'PowerGamer' level of play - who will run around one of the less popular zones looking for other 'PowerGamers' to own and calling everyone who doesn't conform to their style of play zerglings.


<shrug> Who knows what Frontiers will bring, tbh i'm not counting the the VNboards to provide an impartial view so we won't know for sure until we get it here in the EU.

 

[Ormorof]

Frontier Theory 2: Having to use l33t Tict4cs will melt peoples brains. Frontiers (and Mythic) will be responsible for killing millions!!

i think frontiers will bring what it brings, if people dont like it then there will be other options available when it comes out (ie WoW etc )

 

[swords]

I like option 4. that sounds good

 

[Sharma]

Personally I hope that FoTM gank groups fall to pieces and it really rubs in the face of the elitist RvR guilds.

From what ive seen its only really those that seem to be thinking that frontiers will end all RvR, which I frankly find is a load of crap.

Hopefully with frontiers it will give a larger amount of classes a chance to compete and maybe even Thanes will be semi viable in RvR.

 

[Kagato]

Personally I think rvr will become even more zergy and shit then it is now. But it depends on the type of RvR you like.

Going into a little more detail though, these will be the key points:

More areas to roam, however fg's will still be dodging around the out skirts of keep aggro areas, therefore it wont be long till common 'fg hunting areas' are established and routes become known.

Soloing will be absolutly impossible for non stealth classes, due to far increased guard patrols and areas, not only must you dodge keep guards, but now the guards near the towers too, soloing is effectively screwed.

Zergs : What will happen now is one reasonably large fight will occur, it will be flagged up on the stupid radar thing and all other groups will converge the zone flagging it up even more till nearly all are wiped out, the surviving realm will move off, rinse and repeat.

Result being 1 major fight, ten minutes later, another major fight, same location, ten minutes later, you get the idea.

Relics will probably become even more stale then they are now, unlikely to change for long periods of time.

 

[Damon_D]

As long as it spoils the fun of Sharma then I'm happy

 

[Sharma]

Why so Damon?

I'm hoing just for more diversity of classes in RvR groups, I've been in a gank group before with my zerk and it was so routine after a bit, zero fun and was awful, hopefully with Frontiers more classes will actually be used.

 

[Dook]

I think there's gonna be space for FG RvR and large scale RvR.

It won't "kill" RvR and it won't "kill elitist RvR guilds" ('coz guilds who prefer FG combat are elitist fyi!!).

Frontiers will change this game for the better.

 

[Sharma]

It won't "kill" RvR and it won't "kill elitist RvR guilds" ('coz guilds who prefer FG combat are elitist fyi!!).

FG Vs FG combat is all fine and dandy etc, it's just the ones that have opt'd groups all the day and brag about how much RP they have, those are the ones that kinda get annoying.

But it will be intresting to see how good group setups will change, i mean the changes are only proposed atm, for all we know savages could get the base det removed from them, then again they may not, WIth the addition of Det to hybrids albeit reduced, paladins will be able to help more for example rather than being stood around like dummys for full mezz duration until the assist train hits them.

Casters may become more viable in groups, although they have no det, MoM caters for all magic damage, and coupled with a decent tank for body guard, caster assist groups could well become very intresting set ups to play with.

Also with Mastery of focus, split spec sorcs or others may become viable.

And also, Purge on 180 sec timer, 3 mins is usually the amount of time between most fights from my experiences so basically, it may be better just going and getting this rather than buying a very expensive det.

 

[Damon_D]

Why so Damon?

I'm hoing just for more diversity of classes in RvR groups, I've been in a gank group before with my zerk and it was so routine after a bit, zero fun and was awful, hopefully with Frontiers more classes will actually be used.

So ??? you hope it will spoil the fun of other peopel who play the game.. thats a cool attitude.... or not. Its one thing to wish for more fun , but to wish for the ruin of other's........

 

[Ormorof]

Soloing will be absolutly impossible for non stealth classes, due to far increased guard patrols and areas, not only must you dodge keep guards, but now the guards near the towers too, soloing is effectively screwed.

soloing is possible now for non-stealth classes?

nothing new there

i hope for some larger scale battles, 1fg vs 1fg is all well and good and can be fun, but i dont think alot beats a 4fg vs 4fg vs 4fg 3 way battle

 

[Killerbee]

Well, if Frontiers bring more zerg then RvR guilds will run in 2 FGs and still kill loads.

 

[SethNaket]

Sorry, but where did Mythic first write that group versus group was playing "properly"

When they made groups have 8 slots.

 

[Lejemorder]

i dont think it will be more zergy...
for the first u have to be at svasud/sauvage/ligen to find the battle, next u have to port to the zone and last u actully have to move to there the battle was/are... all that will take what?? 5 min b4 u r ready?? and then most fgvsfg or bgvsbg allready finished.

a thing it will affect is keep takes coz u can no longer be 1fg and know none will come. if u want to take a keep u have to a bg to have any chance and i like that. It will make keep takes more fun (5fgvs5fg is more fun then 1fgvs0 even if u dont get the keep).

 

[fang]

I don't recall needing to port to get to a frontier zone in Frontiers Neither the fact that the map only works in the main gate area

 

[Lejemorder]

I don't recall needing to port to get to a frontier zone in Frontiers Neither the fact that the map only works in the main gate area

if u was talking replying to me, then either say so or quote.

and to what u say: that i mean with port was porting by the portal guy as main gate areas. and bout the maps, that only how i understood it but i can ofc be wrong.

 

[Archeon]

Forgot to mention, it'll be interesting to see how keeps fit into RR's - if you think about it taking out the closest keep to the Frontier Keep would effectivly cripple the enemies transportation (to teleport to a keep it has to be linked to the Frontier keep in a 'chain') which would buy your relic team precious time to take the relics.

 

[Balbor]

um why would you need to teleport to a keep to get to relics tower, there right next to the boarder keeps. But it would mean you could then attack a keep closer to your landing zone so you would have a base to start from. Of course if you take a keep ddep in enemy terrirtory then it too is cut off.

Keep battles won't simply be enemy players spamming the doors with AOE spells or defenders PBAE them because this tactic doen't work. However all you need is camera LOE to nuke someone so there will need to be better tactics. Taking a tower will give the attacks a place to base there attack from and provid a safe spot of healing, resting and provide covering artilary. No more simple stand offs on top of hill before charging down the enemy and over running there siege weapons.

Relic keeps are easyer to get into know once enough keeps have been taken, but they should also be easyer to defend as enemy player cannot camp the path to them.

As you can now bind and release to a Keep once battles start they should last for a long time. With CC becoming a smaller facter we should see the use of more AOE spells (after all after about 5sec you can garentee that everyones gonna be on there 1min immunity timer.

Another change should be that RvRing your realms own frontier becomes more desirable, and the best way to make sure you fight on home groud is to take another sides relic.

I'd like to see Battlegroup used for RvR, prehaps all players in a battle group gaining 1% bonues or any RPs earned by the Battlegroup, and bonues for defending a keep (maybe a few RPs per tic while at the keep that is under siege). Same or of thing for attacker, the more tower they take during the siege the higher the bonues, with added bonues for taking keep at the end.

FInally if people still want there 1fg vs 1fg they would be much happyer on a PvP server, with the added bounes of it being totally fair as they can have any group set up they want.

 

[Skilgannon]

I don't think we have anywhere near enough information yet to determine accurately just what Frontiers will bring.

Along with the RA changes there are almost certainly going to be big class changes either at the same time or shortly after release.

As an example, I don't think anyone who knows anything about this game doubts that atm Albion groups are heavily dependant on a few group RAs to compete. Equally, Hibernia without power relics is substandard.

In Albion's case, now that those RA's have been equalised, a similar 'equalising' must occur in terms of ranged instas and group utility. If it doesn't happen straightaway, it will happen once the feedback from the first few weeks come in.

 

[yaruar]

I personally think it could be interesting.

We have the proposed RA changes which are causing whine and praise is what seems like fair quantities.

THe new maps and keep concepts look like they will make the whole RvR experience more dynamic if they are implimented correctly with more variety.

They say there will be more bonuses to having keeps, already we can see that defending keeps will be essential to keep the teleport lines intact and things like Relic Raids will need to take out key keeps to stop defenders, etc. The towers look interesting too especially as they say they are putting in proper tactical advantages for having a height advantage in battle.

As for fgVfg battles. I suspect there will be a lot of whining from the gank squads because it may be much more difficult for them to farm rpts and boast about their uber status. But the thing I think mythic realises is that the majority of it's paying customers aren't actually in RvR guilds and aren't in regular uber gank groups. And TBH the average DAoC player is continually being farmed and gets pissed off with the uber players.
Mythic has openly stated it doesn't like the whole FoTM/gank Group attitude and set up and personally I tend to agree with them.

In terms of enjoyment the most fun I've ever had in RvR is when we've had truely epic battles between large groups.

 

[Pogel]

It will bring change, and change is ultimately a good thing in a game like this. No matter how much we whine about this nerf or that nerf if nothing had changed in the game since release we'd be bored of the same old things. You can see at the moment (or at least up to the release of ToA) that RvR has stagnated into a set of known quantities: known tactics, known optional groups, known hunting areas, known specs, etc. For most people the fun is in finding out things, in exploring and learning. Some will be content to practise and practise until they can perfect the known tactics but many will find this boring and will end up at a disadvantage against the well practised.

I remember going on a training course once. We were given an open-ended problem and asked to come up with a strategy to solve the problem is the fastest period of time. We competed against another team and the teams took it in turns to complete the task - we were allowed to watch the other team when it was their go. After a few iterations of the task both teams had settled on pretty much the same tactics. At this point our team (which ws losing at the time) came into disagreement about what to do. Half of the team wanted to carry on trying essentially the same tactics over and over again, trying to shave a few seconds off by performing it better. The other half thought that there was little point in continuing as there was nowhere else to go with the tactics and our time and energy would be better spent on the next task. If there had been enough of the former type of people on either side then the task could have gone on for hours (until whatever side was losing was bored enough to give up).

The point is that some people wil be happy to just keep iterating the same thing over and over - sometimes winning, sometimes losing. Others will lose interest and want to play another game. RvR is getting to (or has got to) the stage where it's mostly just iterations of the same. That's not going to be fun for everyone - which is why a revolutionary change is needed (and arguably overdue).

Bring on Frontiers, and make it revolutionary!

 

[Balbor]

FOTM gank groups in RvR are basicly people too scared to go to the PvP servers which were set up for that style of play. They tell us they like fg v fg but as long is they don't have to fight against other FOTM gank groups. They are much more content running over 2-3 fgs of non FOTM groups.

 

[Sharma]

FOTM gank groups in RvR are basicly people too scared to go to the PvP servers which were set up for that style of play. They tell us they like fg v fg but as long is they don't have to fight against other FOTM gank groups. They are much more content running over 2-3 fgs of non FOTM groups.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

I'm gonna get a flaming about this from the gank group players but I can say for one, Fg Vs Fg is sort of fun but large scale 3fg vs 3fg is better fun I'd say.

 

[Archeon]

Couldn't have said it better myself.

I'm gonna get a flaming about this from the gank group players but I can say for one, Fg Vs Fg is sort of fun but large scale 3fg vs 3fg is better fun I'd say.

FFS n00b you have no idea how to rvr proper. I don't play anymore because TOA was forcing me to actually play my character before I could be uber but your wrong, and a noob. FU kthxbye!!!!

 

[Svartmetall]

Personally I hope that FoTM gank groups fall to pieces and it really rubs in the face of the elitist RvR guilds.

From what ive seen its only really those that seem to be thinking that frontiers will end all RvR, which I frankly find is a load of crap.

Yeah, theres a lot of "OH NOES THE SKY IS FALLING" crap coming from them since they won't just have cows to farm for RPs al the time and get even more uber and elite/ist.