What Will Cloning Fix?

[Iorlas]

Seriously man cloning a server is just a really bad excuse for not going further with the problem. And there isn't any excuses really.

Letting a user choose from a server with a few users or crowded one, which one would you choose if you are all for PVP/RVR the one with the most users on ofcourse.

Telling users to pay a subscription that will lead to 50% queues wont happen.

And If I am not mistaken I heard from GOA that they could support up to 3500 user/per side that is in total 7000 user per server.

No one can tell me their isn't a way around all of this. And you don't need to be rocket scientist to know that we are in the future not 10 years back.

I mean look back on DAOC, AO, Everquest, Lineage(and so on). And there isn't any problem with users and most of this games only have 1-3 servers in total to choose from. Even private MMO servers have higher amount of users so how come a professional company can't do it eh? I rest my case

 

[boinged]

Some areas might be empty now but once people hit max rank the tier 4 areas are going to fill up. Parts of the game are already laggy for me - not graphics choppiness but real old-fashioned lag, where people run on the spot then teleport across the world.

Cloning is a brilliant idea - just clone the database and no problems with conflicts, no transfer system to write, no CSR having to deal with issues. Simple and foolproof, I don't know why it hasn't been done before. If you're not sure which server to play on then check the population at peak time and go for the lowest one / one with shortest queues.

 

[MephTheLaw]

Some areas might be empty now but once people hit max rank the tier 4 areas are going to fill up. Parts of the game are already laggy for me - not graphics choppiness but real old-fashioned lag, where people run on the spot then teleport across the world.

Cloning is a brilliant idea - just clone the database and no problems with conflicts, no transfer system to write, no CSR having to deal with issues. Simple and foolproof, I don't know why it hasn't been done before. If you're not sure which server to play on then check the population at peak time and go for the lowest one / one with shortest queues.

It's not a streaming clone, its a one off and you can't change your mind once you've picked.

 

[Flimgoblin]

well you can, but your old clone will be out of date.

 

[pikeh]

Yep. He'll probably be wearing flares and platform heels.

 

[GReaper]

The problem with this solution is if it doesn't work.

Those players who refuse to move might be stuck with queues, which is a similar situation to before and isn't a major disaster. However if a small number of people switch server and invest hours/days/weeks of effort into a server which has a very poor population - what happens next? Players could be stuck on an empty server. Some of them might go back to the original server where an older version of their character still exists.

The entire problem seems like neither Mythic or GOA have character transfers ready (I could be wrong here) and are using this as a quick solution to the problem. They're making it sound like cloning a server is some amazing breakthrough in the world of MMORPGs.

I'd like it to work so I don't have to deal with the insane queues, however given the amount of guilds which have announced that they're staying I'm not looking too hopeful.

 

[rynnor]

However if a small number of people switch server and invest hours/days/weeks of effort into a server which has a very poor population - what happens next?

Merge the servers back together?

 

[GReaper]

Merging isn't quite so easy though? The only real way of merging I can see is the solution which I personally think should've been implemented in the first place - character transfers.

 

[Narzeja]

Merging isn't quite so easy though?

Depends on how they manage and set up their databases. Shouldn't be so hard if implemented wisely.

 

[Cadelin]

Merging isn't quite so easy though? The only real way of merging I can see is the solution which I personally think should've been implemented in the first place - character transfers.

Character transfer has the draw back that its just character transfer. Guilds/alliances can't be transfered so easily.

At the moment the total game population is still growing, cloning a server has the same effects in terms of total capacity has opening a new server. They will only clone servers when they believe they have sufficient population to open a new server anyway.

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

Tyrell: The facts of life... to make an alteration in the evolvement of an whining life system is fatal. A coding sequence cannot be revised once it's been established after retail launch.

Batty Forumite: Why not?

Tyrell: Because by the second day of forum whining, any whiners that have undergone flame threads give rise to whine colonies like rats leaving Age of Conan; then the game sinks.

Batty Forumite: What about client-side recombination?

Tyrell: We've already tried it - being nice, helpful, friendly, Summer Glau naked as an enticement; it created whining so lethal the CM was dead before he even left the forum.

Batty Forumite: Then a repressor mod with a big ban-stick that would block the bleating cells.

Tyrell: Wouldn't obstruct whining, but it does give rise to an error in whining so that the newly formed thread carries with it a mutation, and you've got a virus again... but this, all of this is academic. Warhammer was made as well as we could make it.

Batty Forumite: But not to last.

Tyrell: The light that burns twice as bright burns for half as long - and when we find where the whiners are they'll burn so very, very brightly, Roy. Look at the MMO market and have yourself a bun; its quite a prize.

Batty Forumite: I've done... questionable things.

Tyrell: Also very average things; revel in your mediocrity.

Batty Forumite: Nothing the God of biomechanics wouldn't migrate you to a new server for.

Tyrell: Have a cookie.

 

[wooly]

I think its a clever idea - will see if it works in practice but still worth a shot.

More like a blatant "we are shit its easier to clone at a disk level than try and work out how to migrate a character.." - Have we all forgotten their database and database admin is shit and they don't have the staff to work this out?

Copy data MY ARSE!!

They are trying though so I'll give them that... Still the spin factory isn't working.... Note to GOA.. hire the following:

a) decent web developers.
b) decent backend server side admins.
c) Better PR and marketing.

It will cost you more up front but will save you time and will prevent those certain blunders that we are likily to see more of.

On a different topic (GOA bashing is soo easy .) The game is very refreshing and any amount of mis-management is not going to stop me playing.. okay if they shag the servers I won't be playing

Wooly

 

[pikeh]

Whatever GOA do, someone will end up whining.

 

[wooly]

Whatever GOA do, someone will end up whining.

hmmmm that is a very valid point... I wonder if for the open beta debacle GOA had a book open to see what the reaction would be.... I bet someone made a killing... I bet it was atleast 20/1 that ppl would go bananas... after all it was just the open beta...

hmmm lets clone the over populated servers... I'll have 5/1 on that ppl will say that its a load of balls and a cheap attempt to appease their blood lust....

I reckon thats worth a couple of quid on the side...

Wooly

 

[Veck]

Can someone explain me why a char transfer is supposed to be a better solution then cloning the server?

 

[Ixoth]

How many will actually move to the new server of KEP?

We had a poll in our guild, and only 1 was with the move.

Ppl have made friends in KEP, why leave? leave to copy of KEP to find it empty of people?

 

[Flimgoblin]

Can someone explain me why a char transfer is supposed to be a better solution then cloning the server?

because then instead of being able to play on the new server with your current char you have to actively go and do stuff to transfer over...

Transferring back is different - but I'd hope WAR is going to be gaining subscribers for a while (rather than losing more than it's gaining like any old MMO ends up doing) which means new servers will fill up - whether you have people cloned on there already or not.

 

[Awarkle]

i think you will also find that some pqs are more popular than others, there are a few dwarf ones that are pretty long winded and so people would rather head over to the other pq's that are much easier and chain gank.

Also its quicker with a lot of people, im currently trying to stick to just the dwarf pq's till my toon hits 40 then when i roll an alt i can do the other 2 storys / chapters.

also the game has only been out for less than a week and the majority of people are rushing through to get to 40 for the bragging rights. But also rvr / pvp is quite popular way of leveling so some peeps are found in scenarios more than open rvr.

its all swings and roundabouts it should balance out eventually.

 

[Boggy]

I initially wondered about why they didn't use the character transfer option, but on reflection cloning seems like a better choice (more likely to have the desired effect).

The biggest challenge on a server move is not the technical one - it's getting players to actually decide to move. Big guilds will almost always stay on the original, because they don't want to face the organisational challenge of getting all their members to switch.

Small guilds may switch, but if every character has to individually request and complete a character transfer, it's more likely they will decide it looks too hard and stay. Cloning means all they have to do is tell everyone to login to the new server, which is easy in a small guild.

Hard to say what unguilded people will do, but with so many factors as to why they would stay or go, it's probably best to view it as 50/50.

Taking all that into account, you've got big guilds staying original, some small guilds moving, some unguilded moving. It won't be a huge population reduction, but hopefully it will get the queues down to something tolerable.

Keeping registration turned off for now is definitely the way to go. With so many people on the server, there will always be a healthy population of lowbies (alts), and once attrition has lowered the overall population a bit, they can re-open registration.

I just wish they would selectively turn off character creation. Once a des goes x% above order, new people should only be able to choose order. Equal populations means lowest scenario wait time.

 

[Veck]

I just wish they would selectively turn off character creation. Once a des goes x% above order, new people should only be able to choose order. Equal populations means lowest scenario wait time.

That would be a nice solution for people already playing on that server and who have all their friends already playing along side them ... See where I'm going

Recon you'll have a lot of disappointed people that would like to join their friends.

 

[Soazak]

Taking all that into account, you've got big guilds staying original, some small guilds moving, some unguilded moving. It won't be a huge population reduction, but hopefully it will get the queues down to something tolerable.

That seems to be what happened on Skull Throne, but is that really best for the game?

Sure skull throne is fine, but that leaves a brand new server with a really unhealthy population which just means they will have to 'eventually' introduce char transfer anyway if the population on the new server doesn't pick up, it doesn't look like it will on US unless the game peaks really high, the majority of their servers are underpopulated. I personally think it's quite a short sighted bandaid fix.


Hopefully it will all turn out well, and both servers will have good action and plenty of people having fun.

 

[Veck]

Think they believe that those cloned servers will fill up with new people joining the game. If not I recon they could always merge some low populated servers together at a later time.

 

[Boggy]

That would be a nice solution for people already playing on that server and who have all their friends already playing along side them ... See where I'm going

Recon you'll have a lot of disappointed people that would like to join their friends.

I see where your going, but I think it is worth it. People who want to play with their friends most often join roughly the same time as their friends, and therefore would (a) be unlikely to fall outside the cap if their friends fell in it, and (b) would find out soon enough that they and their friends could switch to a lower population server before character had been leveled much.

Plus, players knowing this was a possibility would have the incentive to select a lower population server. At the moment, guilds and alliances are giving no thought to that. It was pretty obvious even before live release that 8 Peaks was becoming "the" server for all and sundry. Noone said "maybe we should go to a less heavily used one" - they just carried on with their plans. That would have been different if those big alliances knew that a high population server was likely to mean some members could not get on.

And look at this cloning situation. Imagine at this point in time you were in a big guild and had several members who could not come play with you. You'd be considering moving to the knew clone a lot more seriously instead of everyone staying put. That would make the clone more successful.

 

[Veck]

Think you have good point there. It might be a bit harsh but it would indeed be successfull. You will probably have a lot of people complaining about it though