What Minstrel rocks in RvR ???

[old.timbak]

High level Minstrels please advise me

What race / stats points / slash or thrust / training specc would you advise for a Minstrel that will eventually rock in RvR ?

Thanx in advance

 

[Galie]

Well i know there will be alot of disagreement here, but coming from both sides of the coin i can give a genuinely unbiased view.

For weapon styles go with thrust, slash is for nOObs as i once was and learnt to my detriment. If u want to know why here its is, firstly thrust is dex and strength based so which ever way u specced your stats and no matter which race u choose u will by lvl 50 have a higher average of strength and dex then your strength alone so more damage. Plus thrust gets 15% bonuses against chain and scale the most popular armours in RvR and the minus come again clothes and leathers, which are used by classes even with the minus u can take down in melee. When beginning your minstrel remember to put ten stat points in dex (for greater evade, block, hits and damage), con (it will increase hp which always helps) and charisma (not only does this make your songs more effective it also gives u greater power so u can cast more dds and stuns).

Remember u are a rogue so highlanders are not the automatic choice unlike for other figher classes. U can be a highlander it won't gimp u it just prevens u from being a top rate minstrel. Better choices are Saracens and the best choice of them all the Briton. As a Briton u will not sacrife hp like Saracen and not sacrife evasion and damage like a highlander.

When it comes to speccing there is only one real way, a cookie cutter build if ever i saw one. 29 stealth, 39 thrust and 44 instruments. How simple is that stealth high enough so u can't actually be seen all the time very useful if u find yourself on your own. thrust high enough to get 4 useful styles puncture and lunge (u can use those two anytime), pierce (high damage and from behind so can easily be pulled off in rvr) and finally Basiliskfang ( harder to pull off as its from the side but well worth it as it slows people down enough so they can't run away). With 44 in instruments u get the top instas and mezz, who cares about the last powersong anyway.

If u disagree with me plz post, but u will just be making a fool of yourself. I'm giving away my secrets so i never see another mullet wearing Highlander slash minstrel getting beat on by an arrogant skald and giving the rest of us minstrels a bad name. Oh how i hate skalds!

"I Fucking Hate Jamie Oliver!"

If u are in London on Wednesday Come down to the "End" in Holborn my friend is running a clubnight all summer

 

[old.Takahome]

A smart played minstrel rulez wot ever his spec is... nerf em

Anyway, just to say that don´t always pick up skalds, u have plenty of other stuffs to kill, if u feel bad, try a bard

 

[Dherkova]

Not agree with galie. Here is what I prefer.
Weapon choice: slash. Why? Well, who is ur primary target in group? Casters (cloth).
And soloing? well, u'll find more easy to kill casters and rogues (cloth,leather,studded).
Race: Highlander or briton (always talking about slash). I chosed highlander.
Points: agree.
Spec: I see 3 valid speces:
44 instr, 39 slash, 29 sealth. 44 instr, 29 slash, 39 stealth or 44 instr 44 slash 21 stealth. And not sure about 44 instr cause u'll get last aoe mezz at 45 (1.51 I). Just try one of them if u wanna play stealther minstrel, hibrid or tank one.

so i never see another mullet wearing Highlander slash minstrel

Well, me, mad and alpha (examples) are highlander slash, anything against us? And don't call slash minstrels noobs if u really don't know what can we do.

Lvl 50 minstrel, Gryphon Knight.

 

[old.timbak]

!

Please dont get in to a verbal fight, but keep the information and opinions coming.Very informative amd thanx so far.

 

[-Steph-]

I agree with Galie

I picked thrust cos of the bonusses against chain. Although my final temp is gonna be 44 ins 35 stealth rest thrust just to play it safe really. I'll be "good" in stealth (+11 with items and rr) and in thrust, i hope.
And if i still can't hit it i always got my shouts and my gimpiltrator boyfriend

There's lots of ways to play your minstrel and i think none of the minstrels are noobs if they pick thrust or slash. In the end it's all how you play your minstrel!

 

[Stekkerdoos]

weee so far i haven't done very bad with my minstrel

but if i have not mistaking i have put 10 in str, 10 in con, 10 in cha
but now i heard strength also modifies the dam for thrust im happy + my dex is still my highest stat and with the extra strength i can carry some more junk

only thing im still not sure of is if i should go for more stealth at the cost of my weapon spec

 

[Verena]

I have to agree with Dherkova here.

If you're planning on making chain wearers your primary target then you'll be getting your ass handed to you on most of your fights. The idea of slash is hit em hard and fast.

We only get evade2, most of the thrust styles are either positional or after evading/blocking someone. If you expect to win fights against Hero's, warriors etc you're gonna be in for a surprise. The strength of thrust lies in the chains and you don't have all the time in the world to get your chains off. You're shouts eat up end too and you'll want to kill everything as fast as possible. We're on a rogue dmg table so don't expect to stand a chance in a 1v1 fight against a pure tank that lasts longer then 30sec.

Offcourse it's also based on how you want to play your minstrel. You want to be a sneaky stealther who picks his targets from stealth or you want to group and fight alongside the tanks. The thrust styles fit infils better IMO, and for me highlander+slash has worked out very nice.

My best advice will be to look for yourself at the styles both thrust and slash offer and choose what fits you best. The +15% that thrust offers over chain is nice but for me not enough to choose it over slash.

29 spec Amethyst slash style is the best anytime style out there IMO with a very nice +to hit and a high bonus.

[edit] I almost forgot but 1 important thing to keep in mind is how you're gonna fit all those thrust styles on our allready full hotbars. I don't know if you've allready started a minstrel. If yes, then you've probably allready noticed that we've got a lot of buttons to use. Sword/Shield, DD's/Stun and instrument+songs allready take up 3 full hotbars that I use constantly. The good thing about slash is that you got 1 style that you use and that's it.

 

[old.LandShark]

Another advantage to slash, amethyst slash (speclvl29) is far far better a style than any thrust style available at similar speclevel.
And casters/rogues make far better RP cows E) than any chain-wearing class.

edit: Race..... i'd suggest a highlander with 10str/con/dex or 10str/con/qui, if you're going slash. Charisma just is not worth putting starting points in.
If you go thrust... eum, not sure frankly. Briton or saracen with 10 dex str and con?

 

[old.timbak]

?

All thanx so far. Why is charisma not worth putting points in as Landshark says ??

 

[-Steph-]

Charisma is important! You'll mezz better etc with high charisma. I advise to put +10 in char. If you want to be good at melee create a fighter.

 

[old.Second]

>High level Minstrels please advise me

>What race / stats points / slash or thrust / training specc would >you advise for a Minstrel that will eventually rock in RvR ?

>Thanx in advance


I would say the human race would be best for Minstrell=)

and why are we all old.**** in the names?

 

[Dherkova]

About cha:
Some ppl says more cha better songs, mezz, dds etc.
Some ppl says no.
I think it only improves ur power. And also at lvl 50 u hit
ur cha cap withouth problems, so isn't really needed to spend
10 points in it.

 

[- Pathfinder -]

Supposedly CHA boosts damage from DDs, shrug, and as the initial points aren't included in the cap, it can't hurt to put 10 into CHA.

 

[old.cutgrass]

As I understand it high charisma does not increase actual damage but decreases damage variance. So if you have high charisma yuo will pretty much do the max possible damage on the mob (damage variance is about 75 to 125 percent of the listed damage for the spell type).

I am lvl 34 and have, with items, a charisma of 150. I can't remember the actual damage I do on a shout but it's more or less the same everytime I use it i.e no variance.

As for mez - I have no actual proof but without items and using the same flute I mez pygmys a hell of a lot less than I do with it at 150. At 150 I have a 90% success rate and was crowd controlling better than a lvl 38 theurg using whatever it is they have for crowd control.

 

[old.Rook]

Oki - i was playing a minstrel in the beta and after the release as well... the difference: In the beta i put 10 points in charisma and guess what? There is no real difference between +10 charisma or less - it doesnt make your DDs harder - overspec in instruments maybe - it doesnt allow you to cast more DDs and stuns and for sure... in RvR there is only one stat that is important: HP, HP, HP, HP. RvR is about having hitpoints, dmg, stun and mezz and charisma wont help you at all. Its your mainstat and you will hit the cap anyways - dex, constitution and quickness/strength is far more important.

And for mezz - i had around 85% success on purps all the time - with level 43 - without any starting points in charisma and/or items. A lot about mezz ist the quality of the flute and points in instruments as it seems

Weapon: Take thrust if you wanna do RvR and use slash if u wanna do Rve only - "slash is the choice for RvE". Against clothwearer and archers you wont need a bonus, they are dead meat anyways - 2 DDs, stun, mezz, repeat - you will need every bonus you will get against healers in chain and so on. But if you wanna do the usuall kamikaze RP farmer - alone in a group of 8, kill the caster and getting killed - maybe its better to take slash, rofl.

As a race i would take a briton for sure, maybe a highlander with thrust (10 points in constitution, 10 points Dex/quickness) - a saracene is a tough decision ´cause the hitpoints/str.. remember: RvR is a lot about hitpoints - i would fight for every single point - and i had a saracene without buff bot - my briton theurg is having the same HPs (with the help of some items) at the same level right now, pretty bitter

My 2 cents


P.S. Dont waste points in charisma - do yourself a favour

 

[old.Dina]

L50? Well how about L40 or L30?

Interesting to hear opinions on how to spec a Minstrel at L50, but how about the path there? I mean, it will take me forever to get to L50 and some info on how you guys would spec on the way would be highly appriciated.

 

[Dherkova]

Interesting to hear opinions on how to spec a Minstrel at L50, but how about the path there?

That's what i did, and worked fine:
I always maxed instr till 44, and all the other points (0.5xlvl) i used them in slash/thrust. I only started to spec in stealth at lvl 40. Cause i didn't want to rvr before.
Maybe u'll prefer to start rvr before, but till lvl 20 (cause BG) stealth is useless, so better continue maxing instr and rest in ur weapon.
What i did was: go till 44 maxing instr, the other 0.5xlvl in slash and the bonus points at 40+ (half ding) spended in stealth. That till i reached 39 slash, then the rest in stealth. U can start to improve stealth before too, up to u.

 

[Tranquil-]

I had two spare rings of etiquette +6 cha on each, and gave them to a friend and his DD's increased in damage when wearing them.

 

[old.LandShark]

Odd tranq, cos removing calliondar bracer of battle & 2 rings of etiquette doesn't noticably lower my dmg or increase my variance.
Besides, charisma is your primary stat, you can afford to have 10 lower base. 10 con or whatever will help a lot more, even if the cha helps at all.

"Some ppl say more cha better songs"
Like what....? Slight differnce to mezz duration possibly, although i doubt it. Anyway.... when your flute adds 15-odd secs to mezz duration, you think 10cha is going to make a further useful/noticable difference? Flute quality is infinitely more important for that.

As for the stealth vs melee spec thing.... you're never going to be able to kill tanks, and vs everyone else, 29 or mid-30's melee spec is enough. A minstrel with bad stealth is skald without parry, dmg chant, or 2Hand weapons.
Ideal spec until patch 1.50, for a slash minstrel, is probably 29slash/39stealth/44instruments.
Not sure about melee spec level for thrust minstrel, though i know Jazhara was thrust and left it at 29 also.

 

[old.Rook]

Arghh, i really dont know about the template till 50 - i had the advantage to play with the same 7 guys till level43, so it was really easy: maxing instruments every level. Not playing in a guild or with the same team mates i would reccomend to spec stealth after Lv40, when you are starting some seriuos RvR.

 

[old.Morsan]

imo thrust is no good for minstrels, the thrust styles are no good and almost all of them have openings not suitable for minstrels.

The bonus vs leather is important maybe not vs rangers but hunters are dangerous in melee they hit harder then you.

Highlander is the best race because u get more HP + str for slash, cha and so on is the same as briton/scaracen.

Bonus vs chain isnt that important because any shield tank will own you because of slam. And even with the bonus vs chain i still think slash have a better chance becuase of the supperior styles.

29 Amethyst Slash M M H - Anytime - (best anytime style slash)

Anytime thrust styles
2 Thistle H M - - Anytime -
6 Puncture M M M - Anytime Short Duration Bleed
8 Sting M L M H- Anytime Taunts Target
18 Tranquilize M - - H+ Anytime Detaunts Target

Taunt styles = - to defense and thats not good
Detaunt = worthless dmg
so the style you will use the most is a lvl 6 style vs a lvl 29 style

 

[katt!]

the leading minstrel on the us servers is a highlander thrust minstrel so i think thrust works at least

i dont think your weapon makes that big of a difference.. when (if) respec comes i will try thrust out, if i dont like it i respec back.

 

[Antiarch]

My 2 cp here ;p:

minstrel saracen evades more than briton which evades more than highlander

charisma influences power + damage (it has no effect as far as i noticed on mezz)

thrust vs slash , i am a briton / slash i wish i went thrust ;], hope that explains a thing or two ;p, besides its bonus on chain, the pierce style is awesome in soloing, seen a minstrel on percival killin a HERO , yes a HERO, all due to that pierce style (in a duel)

But there's a big BUT ;p ministrel as a class should be worked on, we get too much bugs going , like those interrupts, like failing to switch on shield and sword fast etc.....
There are a lot more to be said but i am too lazy atm to write em down

p.s. :If I were to start all over again i would chose a skald definately ;]

 

[Stekkerdoos]

second, our secondary stat is dex and our tertiary(is that 3rd ?? ) stat is strength, now i have also heard that dex has some influence on stealthing, on more dex is better for thrusting, not ?

 

[old.LandShark]

about speccing prior to lvl 50.
I kept instruments at level. I *should* have put all leftover points into slash until i reached my target slash spec (29), but as it is i got some stealth early on in my career. Meaning I've only just gotten 29slash at 43.5.

edit: hah, just something i thought i'd mention.
Minstrels get autotraining in instruments. If you autotrain instruments to lvl34, you can achieve 50thrust/44instruments and have a battle minstrel with dragonfang (lvl50 thrust syle, 9sec stun chaining off evade)
Wouldn't even think of doing a stealthless minstrel myself, and autotraining until lvl 34 means you bring nothing to a group until lvl 34. Still.... might be one for someone with access to a lot of powerlevelling

 

[old.timbak]

!

Thanx all , if you have any additional info, please add. This subject is still interesting for a lot of peeps.

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by old.Second
>High level Minstrels please advise me

>What race / stats points / slash or thrust / training specc would >you advise for a Minstrel that will eventually rock in RvR ?

>Thanx in advance


I would say the human race would be best for Minstrell=)

and why are we all old.**** in the names?

Need to create a barrysworld account and then merge your forum stuff

 

[old.cutgrass]

Go and check out www.bardsofcamelot.com

Alot of the people on there actually TEST the impacts of upping charisma, strength etc and measure the results on the US test servers.

That should help you resolve some of the opinions on this thread. One of the threads on their had some detailed info on the impact of charisma on Minstrel skills and although it's not conclusive it certainly swayed me into putting points into it.

 

[Danya]

Couple of facts (these might have been mentioned but people never listen unless you hammer it in):

Starting stats are not part of cap. Or in other words if you put 10 in a stat to start with you have a 10 higher cap. Can be useful.

Thrust gets no bonus vs scale. Scale has the same modifiers as plate (tho less base ab), that's -10% crush, 0% thrust, +5% slash. Chain is -15% thrust, +15% slash, 0% crush. As you can see against both of those slash is bad, while thrust is pretty good. Personally I'd like a crush spec minstrel but bleh.

Opinions:

Slash sucks. My lvl 43 is slash, my newer lvl 29 is thrust. Why? Cos I got really fed up of seeing _everyone_ fucking resist my slash. Even cloth casters. Believe me, hibs have no trouble getting like 15-20% of slash resist items, so slash is not a good choice. As for mids, well they have a lot less casters in general, not so sure on the items front there, but I can't remember seeing big bonuses on my dmg vs many mids.

Mez/DD variance, resists seem more based on instruments spec than charisma, though I haven't tested this much. My cha isn't capped by any means yet I get almost no DD variance (my instru is high, 44-49 at lvl 43 depending on what I have equipped).

Mez length is based partly on the con of the flute - higher con flutes give longer mez, though it's capped to your level - a yellow flute mezzes for as long as an orange flute. I did a post on this over on the prydwen forum (I think, might have been general), can't be arsed to dig out a link atm.

Autotraining to get 44 instru/50 thrust is the worst bit of self-gimping you can do to a minstrel. For one thing levelling to 34 will be HELL without any spec. For another, even if you did it, the spec is gimped. Dragonfang requires an evade. Minstrels get evade 2, coupled with the fact that most RvR fights last about 2-3 hits, you're not going to evade a lot. In large scale RvR it's irrelevant as a cleric will more than likely stun anyway. In solo RvR it's useless as if you're getting hit you're doing it wrong. Not that a minstrel can really solo without stealth.

As for styles. Yes slash has better styles. But puncture isn't all bad - it chains into at least two of the other thrust styles, and you get evil amounts of bleeding with thrust.