What Is The Worst Drug?

[tris-]

and I'm supposed to take your word for it?

there is no reason to take your word for it either. there is no solid proof that any chemicals in MJ can cause mental illness etc.. but it MAY cause it in people who are predisposed to the condition.

it may happen to some and it seems you work with these people.

big deal. have you worked with people whove consumed MJ and NOT turned psychotic or sufferd any unwanted side effects? have you studied them and how they go about day to day life?

my father knew a lady who was a judge in the crown court. she was a dope smoker for decades from the stories i heard. she used to make space cakes for her daughter and her mates. are you saying someone in that position could carry on as a judge if they were suffering a mental illness from smoking MJ for a long time. no they couldnt, but the fact here is she wasnt effected in such a way.

 

[Ezteq]

this stuff imo, leathal.

 

[Taen]

ofc, but it doesn't make you a danger to society, like alchl does
also, its generally quite safe in comparison to other drugs, its impossible to OD(unless there's a 3rd party involved) and is impossible to die from(unless you think you can fly)
unlike, crack, heroin, achl ect they rot your internal organs... dope just frys your neurology

I'm not talking about people being a danger to society. Thats a whole different topic. When you you say quite safe .. how do you measure safe? Do you have a sliding scale of danger ... with physical health problems at the top and mental health problems at the bottom. What if I told you that many people with mental illness would swap their condition every time for a physcial condition?

--- just wanna bring this up, but coffee/lsd was given to spiders then they wove a web... witch was more geometrical? - will give answer 2moz

omg .. such suspense Like everyone hasnt heard that story! Have you moved on to reading Tim Leary yet or are you still the really juvenile drug stage?

drug education has improved alot in schools of late, we know what were getting into, but we assume it wont happen to us, that's the problem... if supervised and legalized it can be used safely... and we would see a large decline in drug related crimes

haha omg what an intellectual you are! Like our society doesnt have its hand s full with alcohol, nicotine and perscription drugs. What the hell makes you think that people with treat it responsibly just becuase its legal? Lets just make dangerous drugs widely available to people who cant even use alcohol responsibly!

tris- is correct, there is no fact to back up a claim that THC's are addictive... it is believed that the brain gets confused when mixing tobacco with pot, and you *think* you need a fix of pot, when in fact you just a a cig... i can back this up, i smoked 1/2o for 2 years, i decided to give up(actually i chose me) once i gave up, i had no urge to smoke it any more, even though many were smoking it around me(i didn't get the effects passively) but i couldn't give up the fags

god id wish you and tris would stop spouting such bs .. there might be younger people on here who actual buy it. People develop (in the majority of smokers) a psychological dependency on the drug. It is not quite the same as physical addcition but its still addiction. If you give up you suffer withdrawal.

like i said earlier pot has many good effects(one was illustrated on CSI:MI), they also have bad effects, after long term use... but guess what, so does any other drug, prescribed or over the counter, painkillers probably the most well known of this... so really its no worse then paracetamol, except they do liver transplants now what im trying to say is, w/o the intervention of modern medicine paracetamol would be responsible for more deaths than pot

Are you fcking high as you write this shit? CSI Miami .. are you seriously using that as a source for your information? If you are then you need to get your head checked.

Paracetemol causes death becuase people use it to commit suicide. Do you blame ropes for people hanging themselves or bridges for people throwing themsleves off them? Paracetemol is fine if taken correctly. People use pot to get high .. people get high a lot and and it causes them problems .. can you see the difference between the two drugs? You cannot justify any substance and the risk of taking it by comparing it to other drugs. Cannabis has to stand on its own two feet .. the pros and cons have to weighed up. The negative effects on peoples lives and society in genreal have to be assesed. The fact is that cannabis has many negative and disastrous effects on peoples lifes .. the fact is that is does very little if any good.

 

[Taen]

there is no reason to take your word for it either. there is no solid proof that any chemicals in MJ can cause mental illness etc.. but it MAY cause it in people who are predisposed to the condition.

it may happen to some and it seems you work with these people.

big deal. have you worked with people whove consumed MJ and NOT turned psychotic or sufferd any unwanted side effects? have you studied them and how they go about day to day life?

my father knew a lady who was a judge in the crown court. she was a dope smoker for decades from the stories i heard. she used to make space cakes for her daughter and her mates. are you saying someone in that position could carry on as a judge if they were suffering a mental illness from smoking MJ for a long time. no they couldnt, but the fact here is she wasnt effected in such a way.

look .. cannabis is the cause of certain types of mental illness. It is the trigger in other cases of mental illness such as schizophrenia. People who are predisposed to schizophrenia might never have developed it if not for cannabis. What is your point? It is dangerous .. it doesnt matter if its the cause or a trigger .. the end result is the same.

 

[tris-]

The fact is that cannabis has many negative and disastrous effects on peoples lifes .. the fact is that is does very little if any good.

are these facts you made up in your own magical world?

where is your source, a journal, a report or something, just anything. anything IMPARTIAL and UNBIASED that backs up anything youve said so far.
but it has to be something other than "i work with bla bla people and i see this n that". that doesnt mean anything. the people you work with dont represent the majority of the world.

look .. cannabis is the cause of certain types of mental illness. It is the trigger in other cases of mental illness such as schizophrenia. People who are predisposed to schizophrenia might never have developed it if not for cannabis.

words like might dont add any weight to anything. if you want to say things like this and imply they are fact then back it up with something.

why arnt campaigning against alcohol and nicotine?

alcohol causes many, many health problems. both physical and mental. in all cases, i believe its more dangerous than weed. nothing regulates booze except making someone believe you are over 18. nothing regulates fags, except making somoene believe you are over 16. i could go buy 1000 a day and smoke them all but the government wont intervene to stop the effects. which WILL be some kind of cancer or none-repairable damage to my body.

 

[Taen]

are these facts you made up in your own magical world?

where is your source, a journal, a report or something, just anything. anything IMPARTIAL and UNBIASED that backs up anything youve said so far.
but it has to be something other than "i work with bla bla people and i see this n that". that doesnt mean anything. the people you work with dont represent the majority of the world.



words like might dont add any weight to anything. if you want to say things like this and imply they are fact then back it up with something.

Look .. I dont know if you have ever studied at univeristy but most journals cost money and you have to be a member to view them but but google is your friend. Because the of the nature of cannabis use it is difficult to establish causality and very difficult to preform any conclusive tests. In fact it is extremely difficult to establish causality in most psychological studies .. most are correlational. What you can do if want to find out is go talk to psychiatrists and psychologists who deal with people on a daily basis. You can also talk to long term users and people who suffer from metal helath problems as a result of cannabis use.

http://www.mediacampaign.org/newsroom/factsheets/marij_mhealth.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2923647.stm

why arnt campaigning against alcohol and nicotine?

alcohol causes many, many health problems. both physical and mental. in all cases, i believe its more dangerous than weed. nothing regulates booze except making someone believe you are over 18. nothing regulates fags, except making somoene believe you are over 16. i could go buy 1000 a day and smoke them all but the government wont intervene to stop the effects. which WILL be some kind of cancer or none-repairable damage to my body.

I have big problems with alcohol and nicotine too. What makes you think I dont? I am focusing on cannabis here because the perception exists that it is a safe drug which it isnt.

 

[haarewin]

this stuff imo, leathal.

do you know where castor oil comes from?
depends if its vegetable or from beaver. haha

 

[tris-]

I have big problems with alcohol and nicotine too. What makes you think I dont? I am focusing on cannabis here because the perception exists that it is a safe drug which it isnt.

if you speak with many youths theyd say that about fags and booze aswell.

no one is saying its safe, nothing is safe. but somethings have their pros and some have their theorised cons. in which case surely its upto the individual to decide. i wouldnt have a problem if you didnt imply everything you say is a fact

 

[Commandment]

that comment expresses your lack of knowledge there are other ways to take MJ
Pipes
Vaporizers

lack of knowledge was well noted there buddy.... why do you think i asked the question?

smartass :/

 

[Taen]

if you speak with many youths theyd say that about fags and booze aswell.

no one is saying its safe, nothing is safe. but somethings have their pros and some have their theorised cons. in which case surely its upto the individual to decide. i wouldnt have a problem if you didnt imply everything you say is a fact

Well what is a fact? I have seen what I talk of with my own eyes. I have experience in the field ... does that not count as factual knowledge? Causality is extremely difficult to show in any experiment. What you do have is lots of correlational research that indicates that there is a strong link between mental illness and cannabis use. These correalational studies are verified by the expereinces that psychiatrists, counsellors and psychologists have to deal with on a daily basis. Whose judgement are you gonna trust? You have me on one side of the fence who has been there personally and professionally taking time out of my day to try and impart some knowledge so that people dont needlessly have to go through problems I, my friends and the people I work with have gone through. Or do you listen to second hand stories? At the end of the day its your choice and good luck with whatever you choose. But dont try and influence anybody else into thinking that using cannabis is fine because its not.

 

[tris-]

ok but you arnt seeing my point. being in your line of work and your background of problems, its clear you are going to be in a high concentration of people who suffer these problems. which is going to make it seem like a worse problem than it is. then people reading this might think what you say is right for everyone, its not.

im not here to say its right, im here to give the other side of the argument which is as equally valid as yours. not once have i said its fine to use cannabis. you even just quoted me saying its not safe, just like everything else.

 

[haarewin]

Taen - cannabis can induce a psychosis similar to schizophrenia and treated the same way but it is not schizophrenia.

 

[Taen]

ok but you arnt seeing my point. being in your line of work and your background of problems, its clear you are going to be in a high concentration of people who suffer these problems. which is going to make it seem like a worse problem than it is. then people reading this might think what you say is right for everyone, its not.

im not here to say its right, im here to give the other side of the argument which is as equally valid as yours. not once have i said its fine to use cannabis. you even just quoted me saying its not safe, just like everything else.

Not everyone suffers serious problems. My point is that a lot of people do suffer with problems ranging from mild to severe. My point from the start has been that is cannabis worth the risk? If you have suffered with any of the problems I have talked about then you would know it is not worth the risk. I mean lets be honest here . its not like being stoned is that much fun anways. Once the novelty has worn off its just a way to pass the time.

 

[Taen]

Taen - cannabis can induce a psychosis similar to schizophrenia and treated the same way but it is not schizophrenia.

Sorry dude I dont understand what you mean. Afaik cannabis has been linked to schizophrenia in many studies esp a very famous Swedish one.

 

[haarewin]

the disorder cannabis can cause is not schizophrenia. it just resembles schizophrenia.

 

[Taen]

the disorder cannabis can cause is not schizophrenia. it just resembles schizophrenia.

Could you link me to where you are getting this info and exactly what this disorder is. I know for a fact that cannabis can trigger schizophrenia .. maybe the diorder you are talking of is something that cannabis directly causes instead of triggering.

 

[haarewin]

Could you link me to where you are getting this info and exactly what this disorder is. I know for a fact that cannabis can trigger schizophrenia .. maybe the diorder you are talking of is something that cannabis directly causes instead of triggering.

i will search through my books tomorrow. now i am going to bed.

 

[liloe]

in that case dont do anything. drink purified water and grow your own fruit in compost you decomposed your self just so you know there is no contamination in it.

That's a bollox argument though. You can never live 100% healthy, but you can try to live as healthy as possible.

I've done crazy shit when drunk and the one time I did weed was quite fun for the others aswell so I'm avoiding it. I do drink, but I try to keep it low and I'm not touching nicotine or any other drugs. I mean why the fuck would I need them? I simply don't see the point in taking E or cocaine, even less heroine.
If my life gets to a point where I need E to party I'm gonna be seriously worried, trust me. Ye maybe I'm the shit voice of moral you don't want to hear, but that's my opinion. If others want to take all that stuff, I'm easy though, as long as they keep it safe for others.

 

[tris-]

. I mean lets be honest here . its not like being stoned is that much fun anways. Once the novelty has worn off its just a way to pass the time.

maybe for you. for me it opens new social possibilities, alleviates pain if i have any, all sorts. no pain killer works for me, including things like codiene. the only thing that reduces pain by a massive amount everytime is pot.

you could say that about any activity, once youve done X and the novelty wears off its just a way to pass the time.

replace X with -

consuming alcohol
eating chocolate
playing computer games
typing on a forum
your favourite hobby

not everyone loses interest in something they do all the time. doing something is worth it aslong as you think it is.

 

[yaruar]

the disorder cannabis can cause is not schizophrenia. it just resembles schizophrenia.

Do you actually know what schizophrenia is? It isn't a specific disorder, it's a classification of symptoms. It's also very controversial and some people don't think it should be used as a diagnosis at all because it's a catchall syndrome with no physical definers.

 

[haarewin]

Do you actually know what schizophrenia is? It isn't a specific disorder, it's a classification of symptoms. It's also very controversial and some people don't think it should be used as a diagnosis at all because it's a catchall syndrome with no physical definers.

yeah, i'm with those people!
R D Laing had some pretty ... radical ideas about schizophrenia - claiming that schizophrenics were sane in an unsane world.

 

[Taen]

maybe for you. for me it opens new social possibilities, alleviates pain if i have any, all sorts. no pain killer works for me, including things like codiene. the only thing that reduces pain by a massive amount everytime is pot.

you could say that about any activity, once youve done X and the novelty wears off its just a way to pass the time.

replace X with -

consuming alcohol
eating chocolate
playing computer games
typing on a forum
your favourite hobby

not everyone loses interest in something they do all the time. doing something is worth it aslong as you think it is.

What are the social possibilities that are opened for you? Afaik most stoners like to stay at home and get stoned .. if anything its an antisocial drug. I'm glad it helps you with pain .. if you dont mind me asking what kind of pain is it helping you with and is there a reason why a doctor, physio etc cant help you with that pain?

The difference between getting stoned and the other activities you mentioned is that imo smoking dope isnt worth the risk. Alcohol possibly isnt worth it either. The other activities you mentioned are risk free ways to pass the time .. does smoking dope really enhance your enjoyment of other things or does the shift in perception just alleiviate your boredom?

 

[Dillinja]

That's a bollox argument though. You can never live 100% healthy, but you can try to live as healthy as possible.

I've done crazy shit when drunk and the one time I did weed was quite fun for the others aswell so I'm avoiding it. I do drink, but I try to keep it low and I'm not touching nicotine or any other drugs. I mean why the fuck would I need them? I simply don't see the point in taking E or cocaine, even less heroine.
If my life gets to a point where I need E to party I'm gonna be seriously worried, trust me. Ye maybe I'm the shit voice of moral you don't want to hear, but that's my opinion. If others want to take all that stuff, I'm easy though, as long as they keep it safe for others.

People don't do drugs because they need them to enjoy themselves. They do drugs because it enhances the enjoyment.

 

[Calaen]

People don't do drugs because they need them to enjoy themselves. They do drugs because it enhances the enjoyment.

I used to hang a round with a bunch of lads that would always take stuff just to make sure they had a good night, they were incapable of making it a good night without the drugs.

 

[Dillinja]

Well that's probably because they became dependant on them from doing too much. If they'd done them every couple of months or so instead of every week then maybe they wouldn't have ended up like that.

 

[Neffneff]

You dont need drugs to enjoy yerself full stop.

im 25, and i have done this and that im my time, also came close to alcoholism, BUT because my mother was a raging alcoholic at the same time i went T-Total some time ago. I have just as much fun as everyone else, if not more, and i dont have the come downs they do.

the one bind i have is i still smoke, i try to shake it everynow and then, but, typically, its an addiction, and i havnt managed to stop yet. the idea of letting other addictions into my life, doesnt turn me on tbh. and im safe in the knowledge that i wont have any drinking related organ failures when im older, although if i dont stop smoking soon, that may be a mute point once i got cancer crawling through my body.

 

[tris-]

What are the social possibilities that are opened for you?

I'm glad it helps you with pain

The other activities you mentioned are risk free ways to pass the time .. does smoking dope really enhance your enjoyment of other things or does the shift in perception just alleiviate your boredom?

it opens up new social circles, you meet like minded people (who yes, like me will be educated and in a decent full time job, or at uni, not a scum bag), it brings new things to a once normal activity. it helps yous be creative and creativity in a group of like minded people is quite powerful.

like i said, any general type of pain. headaches, back spasms, joint pain. normal medication such as codiene (like i mentioned :-\) does nothing except make me feel spaced out. i dont believe opiate based medication is worth the risk. opiate addiction is a very serious thing and would vary between people.

they arnt risk free ways. what if your favourite hobby is hand gliding? imo handgliding is not worth the risk. you see, everything you say can be spun onto any other thing. thats because what you say isnt unique to just MJ.

yes it does enhance enjoyment. being the expert you are id assume you know the mechanisms of action within the brain when you consume pot.

 

[Taen]

it opens up new social circles, you meet like minded people (who yes, like me will be educated and in a decent full time job, or at uni, not a scum bag), it brings new things to a once normal activity. it helps yous be creative and creativity in a group of like minded people is quite powerful.

So only educated people only smoke dope .. no scumbags. And where do ye educated people meet up and smoke dope and be creative? Is there clubs or groups for educated creative stoners? My bet is you either watch repeats of family guy or surf the net while stoned the majority of time. I have smoked for long enough and know enough smokers to know what people do when they are stoned. Some people granted find they can be creative with music or art when they are stoned but they are in a large minority.

ike i said, any general type of pain. headaches, back spasms, joint pain. normal medication such as codiene (like i mentioned :-\) does nothing except make me feel spaced out. i dont believe opiate based medication is worth the risk. opiate addiction is a very serious thing and would vary between people.

So you self medicate general pain with cannabis? Is there a reason why a young person such as yourself suffers with headaches, joint pain, muscle spasms etc? Every think cannabis could contribute to these symptoms instead of alleviating them? Heavy cannabis smokers regularly report the type of pain you are talking about. It is either one of two things .. you have some medical problem causing you have this pain and u smoke to relieve it or you are having the pain becuase you are smoking too much dope. Go to the doctor and see if there is anything wrong .. explain the symptoms (he will probably tell you to give up dope) or else stop smoking for a while and see if your pain improves. Personally I expereinced all the symptoms you are talking about when I was a heavy smoker.

they arnt risk free ways. what if your favourite hobby is hand gliding? imo handgliding is not worth the risk. you see, everything you say can be spun onto any other thing. thats because what you say isnt unique to just MJ.

You are clutching at straws here m8 ... are you gonna compare cannabis smoking to every dangerous activity in the world. Handgliders take risks and have to suffer the consequences if something goes wrong. So do cannabis smokers .. take the risk if you like but all I'm telling you is that imo it is a foolish risk. When you see people locked in bad trips for weeks on end crying their eyes out about the mental torture they are going through it quickly sobers you up to the needless risks people take.

yes it does enhance enjoyment. being the expert you are id assume you know the mechanisms of action within the brain when you consume pot.

People report a feeling of well being or euphoria. Like with most drugs these effects diminish quite rapidly with regular use as people start to build up a tolerance of a drug. Getting stoned or high for the first few times is very different to your 100th time.

 

[ZiggY]

nicotine Alcohol

 

[ZiggY]

A lot of doctors on here btw!...oh i forgot its FH rofl