What Is The Worst Drug?

[Taen]

ive smoked cannabis for well over a year now. its cost me no more in money or anything else than alcohol has. its of my oppinion alcohol is far worse than cannabis.

I'm a 21 yr. old male who has been suffering from (though, never diagnosed) what I believe is anxiety and panic disorder. I first experienced these very intense feelings after smoking THC (the chemical in marijuana resin) in a pipe of an old friend of mine. Ever since then, I've been afraid of taking any medications that can alter my personality (social drugs, antidepressants, tranquillisers, etc.); therefore, I've been living with this disorder for almost 5 years now, with no medication, but it's getting worse. I feel like I'm living in a nightmare or dream all day long... afraid of everything, and anything that can happen. It's like I'm there, but I'm not. Things that should seem familiar, seem odd and frightening. My mind never rests, I am in a state where my mind seems to play tricks on me (almost a paranoid, terror feeling). Though I do get attacks of sudden panic or anxiety, the symptoms of these are lingering in my life ALL the time, everyday and night.

One of many stories which you can read about here

 

[Olgaline]

your telling me MDMA is physically addictive?

read closer

 

[Olgaline]

If you go out to a club or a party ect and buy or resive an extacy pill, you cannot be sure what it contians, it might be an MDMA based pill or might be MDEA, it might also contain amphetamines or worse.

so can you become physically addicted to Mdma ? no there is no proof of that.
but keep in mind that the vast majority of Extacy pills are produced by people who couldn't care less about your health and well being

 

[tris-]

One of many stories which you can read about here

and thats a real shame he has a problem. not everyone is suseptible to a mental illness from smoking MJ. just like not everyone will become an alcoholic from a couple of pints and not everyone will get addicted to nicotine.

the fact is, MJ is not harmful to everyone. for some people it has more health benefits that it does unwanted side effects.

to list a few -

people on chemotherapy. it lifts their mood and gets rid of sickness, also dulls pain.

people suffering anarexia. it makes you feel hungry and want to eat. stops you feeling unhappy.

people suffering from diseases such as arthritis. it dulls pain sometimes to the point that you cant feel it anymore. makes them feel happier. allows them to live a 'normal' life without having to be in constant pain.

insomniacs. it makes you fall asleep.

the list goes on. yeh some of these could be resolved using man made medicines. take codiene for instances, its usefull for very intense pain. yet it can become physically addictive and cause depression. paracetamol is another one for headaches. it can cause liver failure if you accidently over dose.

cannabis is not known conclusively to cause dangerous side effects in everyone. there is also no way to overdose on cannabis, youd pass out before consuming the weight needed. even then youd need to somehow find enough to even try it.

i dont mind people disliking drugs but i wish they knew the full facts on it. ive been researching pot for years especially before i decided to start smoking it. my friend tryed to argue yesterday that pot is far worse than anything legal. she didnt have a clue about cannabis, only that it must be bad because the government has made it illegal.

 

[Commandment]

If you go out to a club or a party ect and buy or resive an extacy pill, you cannot be sure what it contians, it might be an MDMA based pill or might be MDEA, it might also contain amphetamines or worse.

so can you become physically addicted to Mdma ? no there is no proof of that.
but keep in mind that the vast majority of Extacy pills are produced by people who couldn't care less about your health and well being

ahh i get it now

and about the last point... Sad but true =(

 

[Commandment]

stuff

btw how often is often for you?

 

[yaruar]

and thats a real shame he has a problem. not everyone is suseptible to a mental illness from smoking MJ. just like not everyone will become an alcoholic from a couple of pints and not everyone will get addicted to nicotine.

the fact is, MJ is not harmful to everyone. for some people it has more health benefits that it does unwanted side effects.

The problem is there are no long term studies on the newer strains which are 20+ times stronger than the stuff being smoked 15/20 years ago. I actually gave up dope about 3 years ago because it was ruining my life, well not ruining, but it sapped my motivation, i was going nowhere, depressed and exceptionally paranoid. I personally put most of that down to the increase in strength of what i was smoking (i'd been smoking for about 10 years at the time...) It will be interesting to see how peoples lives pan out 10 years form now having grown up smoking the newer THC packed varieties.

 

[Sharaft]

cocaine, amphetamines and mdma is actually worse than heroin!

heroin only gives you a very hard addiction and you still be clear in ur head after long term use, while cola, speed and xtc chews ur brain and destroys ur body! now think of that.. still disco biscuits are fckin great man!

 

[tris-]

btw how often is often for you?

if i can manager to fit it in about 1/4 ounce a week but most of the time, time only allows about an 1/8th a week.

 

[Commandment]

if i can manager to fit it in about 1/4 ounce a week but most of the time, time only allows about an 1/8th a week.

if that is quality stuff.. i think in 10-15years time i people will be saying i told you so

 

[tris-]

if that is quality stuff.. i think in 10-15years time i people will be saying i told you so

i doubt it. you have no basis or facts for what youve said. so from that we could say its more likely no one will say anything.

seems many people here need to be more informed on drugs. go read 'making a hash of it?'. i have read extracts that would make some of you break down in terror. and yes, its a real commisioned report.

 

[Commandment]

i doubt it. you have no basis or facts for what youve said. so from that we could say its more likely no one will say anything.

seems many people here need to be more informed on drugs. go read 'making a hash of it?'. i have read extracts that would make some of you break down in terror. and yes, its a real commisioned report.

aight. if you think that... but id like your email adress.. and maybe in 15 years we can still see if you have the same view on things..

but has their been any studies on long term users of cannabis?

 

[tris-]

aight. if you think that... but id like your email adress.. and maybe in 15 years we can still see if you have the same view on things..

but has their been any studies on long term users of cannabis?

read the report, tells you more than anything else will.

 

[yaruar]

i doubt it. you have no basis or facts for what youve said. so from that we could say its more likely no one will say anything.

seems many people here need to be more informed on drugs. go read 'making a hash of it?'. i have read extracts that would make some of you break down in terror. and yes, its a real commisioned report.

I've just read the whole thing and it's a report into the general process that the government uses to classify drugs. The only conclusive thing they say about dope is that they find no evidence it is a gateway drug. Although in the testomonies there is at least one person who has changed tehir mind based upon scientific evidence linking dope to psychotic episodes. CBA to read the whole depositions atm.
EDIT: I'm assuming this http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200506/cmselect/cmsctech/1031/1031.pdf is what you refer too...

 

[tris-]

The only conclusive thing they say about dope is that they find no evidence it is a gateway drug

theyd found more than that when i read it.

 

[yaruar]

theyd found more than that when i read it.

"Epidemiological evidence, underpinned by neuroscientific research, suggests that there is a relationship between both adolescent cannabis use and heavy cannabis use and the onset of psychosis. However, many questions remain and require further study. We do not believe that the current evidence on incidence convincingly refutes the temporal priority hypothesis."
"There is clear evidence to support the hypothesis that the use of cannabis by patients with a diagnosis of schizophrenia does result in an exaceberation of psychotic symptoms. This mitigates against the selfmedication hypothesis with patients using cannabis to alleviate their symptoms."

 

[Taen]

and thats a real shame he has a problem. not everyone is suseptible to a mental illness from smoking MJ. just like not everyone will become an alcoholic from a couple of pints and not everyone will get addicted to nicotine.

Keep reading .. its not just him that has a problem. MJ can lead to the onset of Panic Disorder in many people. I don't know if you understand what panic disorder is but believe me its something you do not want.

Not everyone is susceptible to developing mental illness from MJ is true but that really isnt the point. It's about the increased risk of mental illness. If 9 out of 10 people developed mental illness from MJ would you still say the same thing? Or is MJ ok because only 3 or 4 develop some kind of mental illness temporary or long term?

the fact is, MJ is not harmful to everyone. for some people it has more health benefits that it does unwanted side effects.

to list a few -

people on chemotherapy. it lifts their mood and gets rid of sickness, also dulls pain.

people suffering anarexia. it makes you feel hungry and want to eat. stops you feeling unhappy.

people suffering from diseases such as arthritis. it dulls pain sometimes to the point that you cant feel it anymore. makes them feel happier. allows them to live a 'normal' life without having to be in constant pain.

insomniacs. it makes you fall asleep.

the list goes on. yeh some of these could be resolved using man made medicines. take codiene for instances, its usefull for very intense pain. yet it can become physically addictive and cause depression. paracetamol is another one for headaches. it can cause liver failure if you accidently over dose.

m8 that is the most ridiculous list of reasons I have ever read. Makes anorexics hungry??? Insomniacs fall asleep .. dulls pain? Paracetamol overdoses ... are u living in an alternate dimension or something?

cannabis is not known conclusively to cause dangerous side effects in everyone. there is also no way to overdose on cannabis, youd pass out before consuming the weight needed. even then youd need to somehow find enough to even try it.

What?? Ofc cannabis is known to cause dangerous side effects .. visit and psychiatric ward in any hospital and they will tell u a few stories. Talk to long term smokers about side effects .. talk to psychologists about their patients and what drugs have caused problems for them. You might not be able to die from a overdose of cannabis but try taking an overdose and see if the experience doesnt scar you psychologically.

i dont mind people disliking drugs but i wish they knew the full facts on it. ive been researching pot for years especially before i decided to start smoking it. my friend tryed to argue yesterday that pot is far worse than anything legal. she didnt have a clue about cannabis, only that it must be bad because the government has made it illegal.

What i do mind is coming across people like you on forums every couple of weeks who think they know it all becuase you read a couple of books but havent a fckin clue. I have suffered with psychological problems becuase of cannabis (panic and paranoia) .. it triggered schizophrenia in my best m8. I have worked with people who have substance abuse problems and believe me one of the worst offenders is cannabis. My basis for disliking drugs is based on more life experiece than you can imagine, more books read, being trained as a psychologist and working with people with drug problems for a number of years.

 

[Killerpenguin1]

It is not a question of whether which one is 'worse'. They are all bad for you and should not be used, if you must use them, some of the 'softer' drugs such as Alcohol should be used in extreme moderation.

 

[tris-]

Not everyone is susceptible to developing mental illness from MJ[...]



m8 that is the most ridiculous list of reasons I have ever read. Makes anorexics hungry??? Insomniacs fall asleep .. dulls pain? Paracetamol overdoses ... are u living in an alternate dimension or something?


What?? Ofc cannabis is known to cause dangerous side effects[...]


My basis for disliking drugs is based on more life experiece than you can imagine, more books read, being trained as a psychologist and working with people with drug problems for a number of years.

exactly, not everyone. like not everyone is at risk of getting addicted to nicotine if they smoke one fag. ah wait ive already mentioned this but i see youve gladly not botherd to reply to any of those points. i will even state them again so you can see them -

not everyone gets addicted to nicotine
not everyone becomes an alcoholic
not everyone suffers from cannabis induced mental illness
not everyone gets addicted to opiate based pain killers

just because something bad happens to x number of people it doesnt mean 100% that it will happen to everyone. tell me, how many people do you know that are addicted to nicotine? these days its probably a lot.

if you want to compare cannabis you need to fully compare it to all its other alternatives. paracetamol is an alternative to pain relief than MJ. you need to take acount of all the FACTUAL risks asociated with each product for pain relief. if you did that youd know you can overdose on paracetamol and suffer a horribly painful death as your liver fails. thats just one of the problems btw.

youve had bad experiences your self, that seems like its made you not want to know about the benefits of cannabis. your more willing to preach the bad sides of it than accept new info you may not have known.

why do you think MJ is far worse than nicotine? being addicted to nicotine causes a very high chance of dieing of some kind of cancer or heart disease. but wait a sec, you cant get physically addicted to MJ. there is no factual proof that it will cause you a problem. so does nicotine not come out worse there?

 

[Commandment]

so when ur rolling a joint, do u not put tobacco in it?

 

[Taen]

exactly, not everyone. like not everyone is at risk of getting addicted to nicotine if they smoke one fag. ah wait ive already mentioned this but i see youve gladly not botherd to reply to any of those points. i will even state them again so you can see them -

not everyone gets addicted to nicotine
not everyone becomes an alcoholic
not everyone suffers from cannabis induced mental illness
not everyone gets addicted to opiate based pain killers

just because something bad happens to x number of people it doesnt mean 100% that it will happen to everyone. tell me, how many people do you know that are addicted to nicotine? these days its probably a lot.

if you want to compare cannabis you need to fully compare it to all its other alternatives. paracetamol is an alternative to pain relief than MJ. you need to take acount of all the FACTUAL risks asociated with each product for pain relief. if you did that youd know you can overdose on paracetamol and suffer a horribly painful death as your liver fails. thats just one of the problems btw.

youve had bad experiences your self, that seems like its made you not want to know about the benefits of cannabis. your more willing to preach the bad sides of it than accept new info you may not have known.

why do you think MJ is far worse than nicotine? being addicted to nicotine causes a very high chance of dieing of some kind of cancer or heart disease. but wait a sec, you cant get physically addicted to MJ. there is no factual proof that it will cause you a problem. so does nicotine not come out worse there?

My point is (if you bothered to read my post) that when do we say what is an acceptable level of risk. Is it ok if only 1 person out of ten suffers with mental illness associated with canabis .. is it ok if only 3 out of ten suffer or is ok if if 9 people out of ten suffer? If nine people out of ten suffered with mental illness from using cannabis would we be dicriminating against that 1 person who does not suffer?

The fact is that cannabis cause many people psychological problems. The people who have problems with cannabis far outweigh any of the positive effects of the drug. Paracetemol is pain killer that does you no harm when taken appropriately .. I dont know why u keep bringing it up. If you overdose on any drug it is going to cause you problems of some sort . There are plenty of drugs out there that help people that are a safer alternative to cannabis and probably better at their job.

I'm not getting into some kind of debate here about which drug is worse than another becuase its futile. All drugs have their bad points. All recreational drugs are bad for you .. end of. Every time you take a recreational drug you are taking a risk and damaging your body in some way. By all means experiment if you want but you will probably live to regret it at some stage if the experimenting becomes a habit. I did drugs hard and soft for over 10 years on and off .. everyone that I know got fcked up in some way becuase of them. Some recovered, some didnt .. others are dead. Cannabis can be as bad as crack with the wrong person. I've known people who have done heroin and crack cocaine regularly and never got addicted or fucked up ... Ive known people who have died from using those drugs .. but the majority of people who I have known who have suffered with long term mental health problems are people who smoked weed regularly for a number of years. Paranoia, agoraphobia, social phobia, panic disorder, genaralized anxiety disorder, substance induced panic, all kinds of psychosis including paranoid schizophrenia are side effects from the so called harmless MJ. Dont fool yourself into thinking that any drug including the legal ones are harmless. Regret is a horrible thing and most long term drug users will tell you that they regret ever taking any drugs. Its not worth the risk .. take it from someone who has been there and who has deal with people with the kind of problesm I am talking about everyday.

 

[tris-]

did you never think they are predisposed to the addiction?

its already been proven there is no casual link.

 

[haarewin]

its already been proven there is no casual link.

"absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

 

[Punishment]

Anything in Moderation is no harm ...

Sure in the 50's lots of the important inventions were actually a direct result from young scientists on lsd ... Its not been officially proven though ... atleast the US + British Governments deny it

But most drugs with afew exceptions like cannibis actually speed up your brain for a short time ... take coke+lsd as examples ... and long term u are gonna pay and that cannot be argued .

Point being the human mind and how your brain works is still 50% theory and once its out of whack ... You will be sorry

Personally i think Alcohol is the most abused drug ... but only in excess

 

[Taen]

did you never think they are predisposed to the addiction?

its already been proven there is no casual link.

What are you talking about? Is who predisposed to the addiction?

What proof and what causal link are you talking of?

I'm talking about risk ... risk to mental health problems , risk to physical health problems, risk to addiction and risk of death and how we can calculate what is an acceptable risk. When is the cut off point that makes something dangerous? how many lives have to be ruined b4 we decide that something is too dangerous for general consumption?

 

[psyco]

but keep in mind that the vast majority of Extacy pills are produced by people who couldn't care less about your health and well being

this is the reason why it all drugs should be legalized

so when ur rolling a joint, do u not put tobacco in it?

that comment expresses your lack of knowledge there are other ways to take MJ
Pipes
Vaporizers

the only reason people use Tobacco is to aid it to burn evenly(in a splif), and its easy to get a hold of, if you wanted you could use any parsley or many other types of dried Plant

The fact is that cannabis cause many people psychological problems.

this is true, but many do not suffer any long term side effects, and are generally reverse able(the memory thing)
but ofc if you smoke a 1/8 a day for 10years, you would obviously suffer some side effects, unless you were one of the lucky ones

m8 that is the most ridiculous list of reasons I have ever read. Makes anorexics hungry??? Insomniacs fall asleep .. dulls pain? Paracetamol overdoses ... are u living in an alternate dimension or something?

are you?

if you have ever smoked dope you would know it makes you VERY hungry, sleepy and generally numb(in a 3rd person kinda way, hard to explain)

if you didn't know you are not aloud to buy 2 packs or paracetamol at once, cause its addictive + a very common way of suicide... it Decays the liver, and very dangeous when mixed with Achls

Ofc cannabis is known to cause dangerous side effects

ofc, but it doesn't make you a danger to society, like alchl does
also, its generally quite safe in comparison to other drugs, its impossible to OD(unless there's a 3rd party involved) and is impossible to die from(unless you think you can fly)
unlike, crack, heroin, achl ect they rot your internal organs... dope just frys your neurology

--- just wanna bring this up, but coffee/lsd was given to spiders then they wove a web... witch was more geometrical? - will give answer 2moz

--- drug education has improved alot in schools of late, we know what were getting into, but we assume it wont happen to us, that's the problem... if supervised and legalized it can be used safely... and we would see a large decline in drug related crimes

--- tris- is correct, there is no fact to back up a claim that THC's are addictive... it is believed that the brain gets confused when mixing tobacco with pot, and you *think* you need a fix of pot, when in fact you just a a cig... i can back this up, i smoked 1/2o for 2 years, i decided to give up(actually i chose me) once i gave up, i had no urge to smoke it any more, even though many were smoking it around me(i didn't get the effects passively) but i couldn't give up the fags

--- like i said earlier pot has many good effects(one was illustrated on CSI:MI), they also have bad effects, after long term use... but guess what, so does any other drug, prescribed or over the counter, painkillers probably the most well known of this... so really its no worse then paracetamol, except they do liver transplants now what im trying to say is, w/o the intervention of modern medicine paracetamol would be responsible for more deaths than pot

 

[Jeros]

I did not read this whole thread so im just going to say this

I dont need to get hit by a car to know its dangerous

whats worth the risk of damaging yourself or dieing?

 

[tris-]

I did not read this whole thread so im just going to say this

I dont need to get hit by a car to know its dangerous

whats worth the risk of damaging yourself or dieing?

in that case dont do anything. drink purified water and grow your own fruit in compost you decomposed your self just so you know there is no contamination in it.

 

[Calaen]

I did not read this whole thread so im just going to say this

I dont need to get hit by a car to know its dangerous

whats worth the risk of damaging yourself or dieing?

Dont go outside either I hear that is dangerous, actually dont leave your room you could fall on the stairs.

You cannot live your life not living, it would be a waste

 

[Taen]

this is the reason why it all drugs should be legalized

Lets legalize crack and heroin and cocaine and lets see what happens. We will just play a big experiment with the welfare of pur society because some stoners have half baked ideas about taxation and taking the business out of the hands of drug dealers. I have heard the same crap from so may different idiots that I'm starting to lose my faith in humanity.

that comment expresses your lack of knowledge there are other ways to take MJ
Pipes
Vaporizers

the only reason people use Tobacco is to aid it to burn evenly(in a splif), and its easy to get a hold of, if you wanted you could use any parsley or many other types of dried Plant

Most people use tobacco. Whats ur point? Just becuase there are other ways to smoke it doesnt make any difference if the majority of people smoke hashish in tobacco filled spliffs

this is true, but many do not suffer any long term side effects, and are generally reverse able(the memory thing)
but ofc if you smoke a 1/8 a day for 10years, you would obviously suffer some side effects, unless you were one of the lucky ones

and I'm supposed to take your word for it? I have worked with many people who suffer with long term side effects. I have friends who suffer with the long term side effects. Where are u getting your information from?

are you?

eh .. i have been drug free for quite a while now. I can assure you that my feet are firmly placed in reality

if you have ever smoked dope you would know it makes you VERY hungry, sleepy and generally numb(in a 3rd person kinda way, hard to explain)

Dope makes you think you are hungry .. it makes some people sleepy depending on the dose. Other people get agitated and cant sleep. It is not a reliable drug to take for sleep problems.

You dont give someone who is suffering from body dismorphia a psychotropic substance. Anorexics see somone else when they look in the mirror. Their perception of reality is already distorted .. the last thing they need is to be stoned. And even if the did eat becuase they they got the munchies they would probably become bulimic and vomit it all up once the effect wore off.

Cannabis as a pain killer has limited success with certain cases such as MS. It is not a relaible pain killer in the majority of cases.