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Zill
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- #31
I haven't been in Emain much over the past 2 months, what's my activity have anything to do with it anyway? You never stipulated any timescale in your posts.
I haven't been in Emain much over the past 2 months, what's my activity have anything to do with it anyway? You never stipulated any timescale in your posts.
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hotrat
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- #32
NERF buffs, or just remove them completely 
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illu
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- #33
Again - most helpful insight into the SB style world - thanks Zilly and Oxota.
So attacking different people needs different tactics according to the class of the person. Ok. I'll have to print out some of these suggestions and give them a go.
It's a shame people moan about buffbots and being buffed so much, as as far as I'm concerned, I don't think the game was really meant to be played "solo" style - even though assassins tend to creep around by themselves a lot of the time.
When porting or if you are in a group, it's only natural to receive some buffs from team mates, and at the end of the day the idea is to kill an opponent, and as buffs are available, you have to take full advantage of this so that you win.
I know some people take this to the extreme and are UBER buffed, but hell, that's their concern - and good for them. The more points they get, the more powerful they get due to realm abilities anyway, so everyone is playing catch up anyway.
I will always try and be buffed when I go out into the wilderness of the frontiers, as you'd be a fool not to be, but I'm sure there will be times when I'll be unbuffed too, and it's a WAR for gods sake - everyone needs as much advantage as they can get
Any more high sb's out there, please post more info about how you take out the stealthers and people out there in Alb and Hibbieland.
Oli - ILLU
So attacking different people needs different tactics according to the class of the person. Ok. I'll have to print out some of these suggestions and give them a go.
It's a shame people moan about buffbots and being buffed so much, as as far as I'm concerned, I don't think the game was really meant to be played "solo" style - even though assassins tend to creep around by themselves a lot of the time.
When porting or if you are in a group, it's only natural to receive some buffs from team mates, and at the end of the day the idea is to kill an opponent, and as buffs are available, you have to take full advantage of this so that you win.
I know some people take this to the extreme and are UBER buffed, but hell, that's their concern - and good for them. The more points they get, the more powerful they get due to realm abilities anyway, so everyone is playing catch up anyway.
I will always try and be buffed when I go out into the wilderness of the frontiers, as you'd be a fool not to be, but I'm sure there will be times when I'll be unbuffed too, and it's a WAR for gods sake - everyone needs as much advantage as they can get
Any more high sb's out there, please post more info about how you take out the stealthers and people out there in Alb and Hibbieland.
Oli - ILLU
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K0nah
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- #34
Originally posted by cougar-
konah muhahah, u think our sbs move in 2 fgs all the time? doubt we have 16 sbs in guild
err if u read what i said... sb's travel in pairs just like NP travel in 2fg instead of 1fg cos they're pussies who daren't fight on even terms. Clear now?
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Zill
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- #35
I call it good tactics.
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Pin
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- #36
Errrrm, I would just like to respond by saying this is bollocks. I do not have a buffbot. I am rarely buffed at all (~5% of the time I am around) and if I am it is because I am grouped with a guild cleric (not buffbot - the guild only has 1 bot in ~200 chars). On Tuesday night I grouped with Zagg and Harpy and for 15 minutes had buffs (one level 34 cleric sharing buffs between 3 infs) and I didn't meet you then anyway.
Just because an Infiltrator kicks the shit out of you does not mean that they are buffed. Just because an Infiltrator has more rps than you does not mean they have a buffbot.
Next time you meet me and kill me, please take a screenshot of all those buffs leaving my corpse and then come post it here. Something tells me it'll be quite a while before I see that posted.
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theroy
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- #37
Well it was early and I was trying to remember who has them, so sorry if I got it wrong..I dont think zagg has them Most of the time..anyway I dont care 50-60% of the time im buffed so its not an issue.
But dont defend harpy she definaitly has them most of the time and she has a really high lvl buffbot..But as I said it dont bother me I just aviod her at all costs
The point is that aussie (The dumb idiot that he is) seems to tell a one sided story about the EVIL "SHADOWN00BS" and there evil buffbots.. when the fact is infiltrators have them too..
Sorry for any misquoted names incl yours Mr Pin
But dont defend harpy she definaitly has them most of the time and she has a really high lvl buffbot..But as I said it dont bother me I just aviod her at all costs
The point is that aussie (The dumb idiot that he is) seems to tell a one sided story about the EVIL "SHADOWN00BS" and there evil buffbots.. when the fact is infiltrators have them too..
Sorry for any misquoted names incl yours Mr Pin
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Pin
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- #38
Originally posted by theroy
Well it was early and I was trying to remember who has them, so sorry if I got it wrong..I dont think zagg has them Most of the time..anyway I dont care 50-60% of the time im buffed so its not an issue.
But dont defend harpy she definaitly has them most of the time and she has a really high lvl buffbot..But as I said it dont bother me I just aviod her at all costs
...
Sorry for any misquoted names incl yours Mr Pin
I wasn't defending Harpy, as I mentioned, I was grouped with her on Tuesday night and got buffs from her LEVEL 34 buffbot. And no, Zagg didn't have one there.
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theroy
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- #39
hmmm lvl 34...she hits hard then I will still aviod her anyway hehe
I will still aviod her anyway hehe
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Pin
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- #40
Oh, and to answer the original question:
Find a low health or low con, preferably sitting character. Stealth to within about 1000 range of them and use a charged item on them. DD of a couple of hundred. Don't need to go near, don't even unstealth
(okay, so it costs 25g or something each time you do it, but )
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Aussie-
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- #41
FYI albs have never had a infil with a buffbot in the past, except for brommix, and 2 weeks before old mallus quited he also had one but never really used it alot.
pretty lame excuse to point to albs who made them more out of defence then offence.
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Zill
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- #42
You're just a bitter Scout Aussie. You're getting owned by SBs and you just can't accept it. You blame it on buffbots when in fact you're just being outclassed on the battlefield. Buffbot or no buffbot a SB (same level) vs you in a melee, a SB will win all the time. And as for buffbots, they are a fact of life so just accept the fact as we all have to deal with it.
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Aussie-
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- #43
Originally posted by Zilly
You're just a bitter Scout Aussie. You're getting owned by SBs and you just can't accept it. You blame it on buffbots when in fact you're just being outclassed on the battlefield. Buffbot or no buffbot a SB (same level) vs you in a melee, a SB will win all the time. Buffbots are a fact of life so just accept the fact as we all have to deal with it.
I hope you know that you're talking bullshit with your 2 month old RvR expierences.
plz try me and come back with a friend.
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censi
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- #44
buffbots are gay
see hidden is gay
Both really feck up the game for archer classes.
I have been attacked a few times by unbuffed assasins today. Won 2 fights lost 1....
All 3 fights went down to the wire. This is how the game should be played. When a buffed assasins attacks you there isnt much point even trying to fight back.
Eventually the buff bot issue will get fixed.... and all the growing number of sad feckers that use them will probably quit, cuz they will loose their edge.
Camoflage wont be a good enough fix for see hidden... (see hidden should be removed from the game its a joke.... if your gonna nerf a class do it by weakening that class not by giving another class the ability to stop you soloing.
Archer classes never needing gimping in the first place, we just used to make a mockery of crappy mages that didnt have the reflexes to either run or do their ting on you fast b4 u dropped them..... Mythic responded to the whinging of the mage community of daoc that Archers were overpowered... Every class already had a built in defense for archers (bubbles, engage, insta heals, insta mezz, speed boosts etc etc) People didnt play their classes well which lead the the false pretence that archers were to good. This was never true and ne1 who has played a level 50 archer knows this classes true capability. Archers are now a joke.... well done mythic.
see hidden is gay
Both really feck up the game for archer classes.
I have been attacked a few times by unbuffed assasins today. Won 2 fights lost 1....
All 3 fights went down to the wire. This is how the game should be played. When a buffed assasins attacks you there isnt much point even trying to fight back.
Eventually the buff bot issue will get fixed.... and all the growing number of sad feckers that use them will probably quit, cuz they will loose their edge.
Camoflage wont be a good enough fix for see hidden... (see hidden should be removed from the game its a joke.... if your gonna nerf a class do it by weakening that class not by giving another class the ability to stop you soloing.
Archer classes never needing gimping in the first place, we just used to make a mockery of crappy mages that didnt have the reflexes to either run or do their ting on you fast b4 u dropped them..... Mythic responded to the whinging of the mage community of daoc that Archers were overpowered... Every class already had a built in defense for archers (bubbles, engage, insta heals, insta mezz, speed boosts etc etc) People didnt play their classes well which lead the the false pretence that archers were to good. This was never true and ne1 who has played a level 50 archer knows this classes true capability. Archers are now a joke.... well done mythic.
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Zill
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- #45
I have better things to do with my life thanks.
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belth
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- #46
Quit talking out of your ass. Archers were overpowered and that's that. Take back all the nerfs that have happened? Casters get non-timered QC, thanes can chain-cast their instas, etc...
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theroy
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- #47
GG today aussie...nice 1v1 as you so famously procliam is what you love..
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censi
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- #48
Archers still have the same capibility as before in terms of killing other classes.... my objection is manner in which they have been gimped... By giving assasins 'see hidden' mythic are basically stopping rangers from soloing, cuz of the ridiculous range they can now been seen at. All stealth classes should be able to solo. That was the only reason I ( and many others) chose an archer. Its also why many archers quit daoc when 1.50 came.
Tell my why archers were overpowered b4 1.50 rather than trash talking like a 5 year old faggot. I am guessing you have never played a lvl 50 archer and dont really have a clue.
Most mages and assasins die fast to arrows cuz of their piss poor slash resist and low hp. Try sniping a sorc with good +con +hp and high slash, and you will die if this sorc is a reasonable player.
I always find myself using Veesham as an example of how a mage class should really be played... 1v1 he is a hard target to snipe even if he is alone... if you dont drop him you will find your self mezzed, debuffed and dead fast.... but the same goes for other classes played well... If you dont drop a pet class before their pet reaches you, your dead. Tank classes are ridiclously hard to drop as an archer... support classes like healers to are hard...
Finding any opponent who wasnt grouped, tracking him or striking when he didnt expect it, and knowing when to abort and restealth if it went wrong used to be fun....
Archer classes used to feed off weak mages that didnt really know how to play their characters....
If u played an archer rather than an assasin you would know exactly what im talking about.
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belth
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- #49
You don't have the same capability of killing other classes anymore. Self BT, no capping on sitters, FA/IP. All those make it harder for you. See Hidden? It doesn't work like other things in the game, being not level based. It doesn't stop you from soloing however, only in Emain and other places full of people. Learn to adapt... You were able to kill almost anyone with impunity, just crit them and they're almost half dead - and there's nothing they could do. Except run, but you've already fired your next arrow, which will hit before your target can get out of range.
If you get killed by a caster class that can't cast nearsight, you're shooting from too close - you have a range advantage. Use it. If you played in Alb, you'd know how hard it is to get decent slash resist here, we don't have you level17 or so items with 9% slash resists or glimmer striker rings with 10%... Only things we got with decent slash resists are... Legion Jerkin? Ichor coated leggings or some other cloth armor from Barfog.
Those 2 don't go together, assassins have to do more work than you to kill someone, especially now that we unstealth after one-shots. You just restealth, 2000 /loc away, unseen by anyone. When's the last time you shot a yellow-con from point-blank range as your first shot? Start doing that for a week and never shoot from range, except from 1/3 of your bows range with worst possible arrows, no critshot and base Quickness...
Face the fact, archers aren't the über solo-gankers anymore. And stop being the spoiled 3 year old brat who's favorite playing ground got changed and now you cry momma.
If you get killed by a caster class that can't cast nearsight, you're shooting from too close - you have a range advantage. Use it. If you played in Alb, you'd know how hard it is to get decent slash resist here, we don't have you level17 or so items with 9% slash resists or glimmer striker rings with 10%... Only things we got with decent slash resists are... Legion Jerkin? Ichor coated leggings or some other cloth armor from Barfog.
Those 2 don't go together, assassins have to do more work than you to kill someone, especially now that we unstealth after one-shots. You just restealth, 2000 /loc away, unseen by anyone. When's the last time you shot a yellow-con from point-blank range as your first shot? Start doing that for a week and never shoot from range, except from 1/3 of your bows range with worst possible arrows, no critshot and base Quickness...
Face the fact, archers aren't the über solo-gankers anymore. And stop being the spoiled 3 year old brat who's favorite playing ground got changed and now you cry momma.
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belth
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- #50
It shouldn't have to-hit bonus as it's the most powerful anytime style
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old.Vanity
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- #51
Originally posted by theroy
Well it was early and I was trying to remember who has them, so sorry if I got it wrong..I dont think zagg has them Most of the time..anyway I dont care 50-60% of the time im buffed so its not an issue.
But dont defend harpy she definaitly has them most of the time and she has a really high lvl buffbot..But as I said it dont bother me I just aviod her at all costs
The point is that aussie (The dumb idiot that he is) seems to tell a one sided story about the EVIL "SHADOWN00BS" and there evil buffbots.. when the fact is infiltrators have them too..
Sorry for any misquoted names incl yours Mr Pin
Sure, see a pattern ? Someone starts with crap and others follow. I will give up my bot if everyone does
Afterall I made her because of others using them. Call me naive if you like thats your god given right. Enough said, its not really the topic anyways.As for attack styles and weapons. I use one set of equally (high)speed weapons with snare and dot for all occasions (since we poor infils don't get 2H - hehe) Casters I usually backstab/thigh cut to avoid nasty consequences. Rest gets the old fashioned perforate/Creeping Death treatment if it should work. If not, hope for an evade
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[RG]Thorey
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- #52
Originally posted by old.Vanity
Sure, see a pattern ? Someone starts with crap and others follow. I will give up my bot if everyone does
As for attack styles and weapons. I use one set of equally (high)speed weapons with snare and dot for all occasions (since we poor infils don't get 2H - hehe) Casters I usually backstab/thigh cut to avoid nasty consequences. Rest gets the old fashioned perforate/Creeping Death treatment if it should work. If not, hope for an evade
No I dont..I use because everyone does too
..But 50% of the time I dont have my buffs on..Unfortuntly for mallus he picks the times I have my buffs Also unfortunatly for me..you find me when I dont have my buffs on
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censi
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- #53
belth u dont know what you are talking about.... dont have time to elaborate now.
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belth
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- #54
Go on, talk more shit. I don't know what I talk about because I can't be arsed much with the leveling treadmill and am not RR4?
I've seen quite plenty enough people getting killed by archers during the time I've played in beta and retail. In beta, you were lucky to kill an archer, much less find one, as arrows didn't show up, etc. Propably same at start of retail, when I wasn't playing because I didn't want to fork out additional ~20€ just because I live in Scandinavia and Toptronics/GOA didn't want to distribute it here.
Assassins work is harder than an archers because you just plink from your extreme range and we have to get up close & personal with our victims. See Hidden? Quit whining about it, it's not the end of the world for archers/minstrels - if it is, you need to learn tactics and stop thinking you're the über RP-farming machine you used to be in Emain. Most of the time I've spotted an archer with it, is when they're near clipping plane and the times I went after them, they were already gone most of the time. SH netted me maybe total of 6k RP or so - it's not a RA worth having, not anymore. I'll reconsider it when Camoflage comes.
Also, you truly don't know what you're talking about when you say that every class has a built-in protection against archers... Let's see... Armsmen, Hero, Warrior, Paladin, Mercenary, Scout, Blademaster, Champion, Thane get Engage at 7 shield spec. That's fine, it's a good investement with good returns, even for PvE. Warden, Theurgist, Runemaster get PBT - that's also fine and makes your PvE life shorter due to getting groups easier. Rest of the cloth-casters get personal BT in baseline, no worries there for 1 shot. Spiritmasters, Eldritches and Cabalists get nearsight, fabulous investment, takes care of you pretty much for 2 minutes. Rest of the classes have nothing that can touch at 2k+ range, where you just merrily keep firing. They can only sprint away. That's 15 classes out of 33 classes, which can do something, except die or sprint away. If that's "all" classes, you need to go back to first grade of preliminary school. Sure the amount of classes increases drastically if you get in to the 1850-1500 range, but why risk it? Greed? Thoughts of immortality/überness?
Besides, you seem to be doing just fine, 70k RP in last 7 days according to Duskwave. Quit whining.
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hotrat
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- #55
Humm i agree with censi and belth...
I like the quote all stealther should be able to solo...
Thing is minstrels really got the bad end of the stick, i play a lot more in uppland now, and still i mostly die from see hidden and true sight. And the fact that only snipers get camouflage is ridiculous, forces all minstrel to respec to weapon and group up.
Just a quick example, i killed some mid on the road in uppland and a assasin must have seen me from distance just as i kill him, i stealth and move up hill and to the side of the road behind tree's (assasin saw me cus of SH). I sit down, 20 secs later PA Now lets suppose i was a sniper, chances are i would have sniped this mid from the trees in the first place, and it is unlikely the assasin would have seen me.
Mythic should just remove minstrel stealth, and give us a better ae mezz (shorter cast longer duration). That way we are still different from bard cus we got insta stun, 2 dd's, generally better melee and can't heal. And still different from skald, cus we got ae mezz, and later mezz heal.
Stealth was the defining aspect of a minstrel, but giving assasins see hidden is like giving all main healer classes group purge (hence nerfing bards badly).
Still its all down to luck, sometimes i can be stealthed in front of a zerg and nothing, sometimes i can get hit by a assasin, stun and run and 1 min later kill some mage and the assasin is nowhere to be seen .. Just annoying when you haven't killed anyone since u arrived in <some frontier zone> and you are merely scouting for a enemy and you get hit by an assasin, I 'd be happy to die if I just made a few rp first
I like the quote all stealther should be able to solo...
Thing is minstrels really got the bad end of the stick, i play a lot more in uppland now, and still i mostly die from see hidden and true sight. And the fact that only snipers get camouflage is ridiculous, forces all minstrel to respec to weapon and group up.
Just a quick example, i killed some mid on the road in uppland and a assasin must have seen me from distance just as i kill him, i stealth and move up hill and to the side of the road behind tree's (assasin saw me cus of SH). I sit down, 20 secs later PA
Now lets suppose i was a sniper, chances are i would have sniped this mid from the trees in the first place, and it is unlikely the assasin would have seen me.Mythic should just remove minstrel stealth, and give us a better ae mezz (shorter cast longer duration). That way we are still different from bard cus we got insta stun, 2 dd's, generally better melee and can't heal. And still different from skald, cus we got ae mezz, and later mezz heal.
Stealth was the defining aspect of a minstrel, but giving assasins see hidden is like giving all main healer classes group purge (hence nerfing bards badly).
Still its all down to luck, sometimes i can be stealthed in front of a zerg and nothing, sometimes i can get hit by a assasin, stun and run and 1 min later kill some mage and the assasin is nowhere to be seen .. Just annoying when you haven't killed anyone since u arrived in <some frontier zone> and you are merely scouting for a enemy and you get hit by an assasin, I 'd be happy to die if I just made a few rp first
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censi
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- #56
Belthazor Soulshade Dragon Knights 49 136,495 Infiltrator
Now I understand why you dont have a fecking clue.... sorry my mistake...
seriously though Archers are weak nowadays... its just a fact....
I have access to level 50 heros bards and assasins so I draw my comparisons from experience.
Now I understand why you dont have a fecking clue.... sorry my mistake...
seriously though Archers are weak nowadays... its just a fact....
I have access to level 50 heros bards and assasins so I draw my comparisons from experience.
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belth
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- #57
You're the dumbass here, drawing final conclusions from the amount of RP someone is holding. Fucking sad. Not all of us play 24/7 Emain.
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Danya
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- #58
More like giving them a passive "I'm immune to CC" ability. SH should have been left out, TS is fair enough as it's active, but a passive ability that negates entire speclines?
uke:
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Tranquil-
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- #59
Originally posted by belth
I'll reconsider it when Camoflage comes.I'm probably a bit slow here, but what's the advantage with having it when there is an ability negating it, opposing to now, when nothing except terrain negates it?
15 archer resistant classes, now you haven't taken all casters into consideration, so there's a few more. Also add that Hibernian casters get a 1500 range, 2.5sec casttime, 9 sec BASELINE stun, it can be quickcasted. A caster that pays attention can just /face sprint, QC stun, game over, plenty of time to use those heavy damage nukes/bolts. The rest of the classes mostly consists of Healers/buffers/CC classes which don't need to worry that much. Instaheals, instant CC etc. Classes with high absorbs/hp, instaspells are usually out of league. Also note that Nearsight is on no recast timer, no resist table. Pet classes are pure evil when considering their pet tracks through stealth and runs instantly at the attacker if set to defensive mode. Oh, and some don't even need LOS. Archers also need the range advantage which they get when shooting downhill, this pretty much shows the rest where to look for archers. There is even more to taken into consideration, with all classes, so there is no such thing as ownage(mostly atleast), it's all about situations.
Assassins need alot of time to setup an attack, aswell as archers, but they also don't need to worry that much about other classes negating their stealth specline, negating their initial attack because of BT, fumbles etc. When is the last time you fumbled your PA? Ofcourse a missed PA is common, but it's a style, one of many, there is nothing saying you HAVE to spec and play that way, archers HAVE to use Critshots, it's their main attack. Also usually assassins have a pretty high stealth spec which usually results in a swift getaway. IMO Assassins are pretty much balanced with their abilites, it's the other classes that needs balancing.
(Disclaimer: I've probably forgot something that should have been taken into consideration, but then post it here and people can add that themselves. For anyone in a flammable mood, notice the IMO? (In my opinion. There is no pressure whatsoever about anyone having to agree with me.))edit: forgot to add that this is no "more love to archers"-post. I don't have a problem playing as it is today, and I'm fine with see hidden, Stealth AND 1k ranged damage was overpowered. Even though nerfs did more than remove the uberarchers. Disclaimer still applies
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censi
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- #60
RP is proportional to amount enemies killed which is also proportional to RVR experience. Sorry but thats a fact....
rr5 is the bench mark of a moderatly accomplished player...
I suspect you will still be a mouthy little twat even when u make it to rr5 though.... put your point accross by all means.... but drop the bitching, there is far to much of it on these boards for it to impress ne1 now. (even if you were right (which your not))