What is shield based on ?

[zael_soulslayer]

I was thinking about why an arsman blocks more than a pally .
Then i thought it was WS, i asked some ppl and a few think it is based on dex and shield spec ( ofc ) but other says its WS.

I would like to know wot u think, i know Pin did some tests, but they were lvl 20 and things change a lot till 50.
I looked up and it says it based on opponent and ur WS compared and then make a numerical value.

I still wud like to know how to increase ur block rate, MoB , aug dex ?

Discuss

 

[zael_soulslayer]

This is wot i found:

That value is compared to your opponent’s weapon skill value to determine your chances to block or parry. If the numbers are equal, your base chance is determined entirely by your skill level. Also, before this comparison happens, the game looks to see if your opponent is in your forward arc – to determine that arc, make a 120 degree angle, and put yourself at the point.

 

[- Fedaykin -]

so it opponents weaponskill is compared to the blockers weaponskill then an armsman will block more due to their weapon skills being higher than a hybrids such as a paladins

also dex and spec will obviously have an effect. I think weaponskill effects the base chance to block then specs is placed on top of this?

we need pin tbh

 

[mastade]

Someone call Pin :d

 

[Pandemic]

i think its based on

1. ws of both u and ur opponents
2. ur dex
3. ur shield skill
4. ur rr
5. ur mob
6. ur arc ie facing not in 90 degree or 120 degree of ur enemy is bad
7. ur number of opponents
8. vs dual wield it is drastically reduced
9. ur shield size ie large blocks better than small vs more than 1 opponent

assuming u have maxed dex and shield skill best way to improve it is more points into mob. also more dex from ra and increased rr help

 

[nalistah]

MoB doesnt give your higher WS, now does it?

 

[ilienwyn]

Originally posted by nalistah
MoB doesnt give your higher WS, now does it?

No but increase chances to block by 3% whereas each point is shield increases by 0.5% (both numbers halved vs dualwielders ). That's the theory at least

 

[VodkaFairy]

Shield is based on your dex, shield spec, level of mastery of blocking and your opponents weaponskill.

Your own weaponskill has no effect on blocking at all, at least that's what I remember from Pin's tests. It's pretty logical really ;p

-Dex: The more dex you have the better you are at blocking blows.
-Shield spec: idem.
-Mastery of Blocking: item.
-Opponents weaponskill: more weaponskill = more penetrating of your defence (evade/parry/block).

 

[bracken_woodman]

As I recall only the attacker's ws counts in determining his/her chance to bypass block. You can raise your own ws but it wont in itself affect your chance to block. I would guess the reason pallies appear to block less than armsmen is that armsmen are more likely to have 50 shield and mob. Could be wrong but that's how I remember it

 

[Elric IA]

Armsmen also get dex as tertiary stat whereas a pallies doesn't raise with level so they have 15 more dex as well. I suspect 50 shield on s/s armsmen rather than the 42 which most pallies have will make a difference as well. TBH there wont be a great deal of difference (4% from shield spec and whatever 15 dex gives you) but over a long sample you would notice the difference between a 50 shield specced armsman and a 42 shield specced pally.

 

[ilienwyn]

Forgot that paladins don't raise dex at all. So armsman have a little more. Best guard (considering dex part) is scout and reaver...

 

[VodkaFairy]

Originally posted by ilienwyn
Forgot that paladins don't raise dex at all. So armsman have a little more. Best guard (considering dex part) is scout and reaver...

Well, a scout really sucks at guarding in a group. A small shield can only block one attacker :x

 

[Asha]

Originally posted by VodkaFairy
Well, a scout really sucks at guarding in a group. A small shield can only block one attacker :x

according to parlain, shield size doesn't effect guarding, only self blocking.

dunno if it's true but I use a small shield with my reaver because I mostly solo and mostly try for 1 vs. 1. If I get more I try to switch shields, but .. I sux

 

[VodkaFairy]

Originally posted by Asha
according to parlain, shield size doesn't effect guarding, only self blocking.

dunno if it's true but I use a small shield with my reaver because I mostly solo and mostly try for 1 vs. 1. If I get more I try to switch shields, but .. I sux

Why a small shield? I like this reaver called 'Spiritraiser Soulcrusher', he uses a medium shield and looks so much like a cleric. I wasn't happy at that moment, I was lucky he was only rr2

Anyway, I dunno if that's true, but still they have no det But yeah statistically a mob5 aug dex5 50+20 shield scout should be an insane blocking machine then

 

[Asha]

because I solo and reavers eat end like you can't believe
small shield = less end

on the what effects blocking/guarding - I am not sure what to think. Vs. Ialkarn (shield 7) - he blocks me more than I block him (I have 42 shield). That was in a short duel tho - hardly scientific and his dex is maybe higher than mine. I don't think he has mob and I do. But it was only a few duels and it could have been any number of things besides WS.

would like to see the real numbers with lvl 50 of a decent RR totally buffed

doubt anyone does it tho

 

[old.Filip]

'Spiritraiser Soulcrusher'

try look up in illienwyn's sig ...

 

[Pin]

your blocking % is improved by raising your:

shield skill
mob level
your dex

your blocking % is reduced by:

attacker increasing his weaponskill
attacker using 2 weapons
multiple attackers


Your weaponskill has no bearing on your blockrate.

Armsmen and Paladins will block at the same rate if the above are all the same.

The number of attackers you can successfully block in a round is not as simple as The Herald's basic explanation of small=1, medium=2, large=3, but I cba to go into depth on this - just that when larger than these numbers, the % chance greatly drops.

Guard takes your level of Guard instead of the shield size when determining the number of attackers rule, but again, it is not just a maximum of 1, 2, 3 (I believe, though I haven't tested this).

You can't block things that are behind you


In a duel between a pure tank and a hybrid, the pure tank has an increased chance to bypass the hybrid's shield as the pure tank has high weaponskill, the hybrid has a lower chance to bypass the tank's shield due to his lower weaponskill, therefore the hybrid would need a much higher base block rate for them to block equally in a duel. (And no I don't have a formula to tell you exactly how much).

 

[panos_gr]

Originally posted by Asha
according to parlain, shield size doesn't effect guarding, only self blocking



Is there any test or proof for this? i ve read some vnboards posts(yeah yeah they r crap) that say indeed that shield size doesnt matter when guarding but none of them had any soldir proof to back it up.....from my personal experience i d say shield size doesnt matter when guarding but yestrday after grp pressureP) i turned back to large again and...maybe though i was blocking more?..or maybe they had lack of bb buffs yestrday who knows;P Anyway i d like know if theres a test or sth..tu^^

 

[skile]

Armsmen get dex while levling.

 

[choonz]

One of the theories around Critshot.com and various other places was that the shield has a hidden weaponskill of its own. This was discussed at length during a lot of 50 shield scout testing ages ago.
I guess it sounds possible, even likely.
As pin says, sword-weapon skill has no bearing on blocking, im 50 shield - 8 slash and block like its going out of fashion

Of course the +14 and Mob2 + 357 dex helps

 

[drunkard]

The hidden shield weapon skill only applies when using shield styles. When attacking with a shield it obviously has to use some kind of weaponskill to calculate the chance for it to get through defense.

Theories I've seen on this range from a weaponskill based on you're shield spec and dex, to taking your highest ws and using it to determine your damage and chance to get through defense.

Never seen any conclusive evidence of any them though.

 

[alme]

Originally posted by VodkaFairy
Shield is based on your dex, shield spec, level of mastery of blocking and your opponents weaponskill.

Your own weaponskill has no effect on blocking at all, at least that's what I remember from Pin's tests. It's pretty logical really ;p

-Dex: The more dex you have the better you are at blocking blows.
-Shield spec: idem.
-Mastery of Blocking: item.
-Opponents weaponskill: more weaponskill = more penetrating of your defence (evade/parry/block).

 

[parlain]

Originally posted by panos_gr

Originally posted by Asha
according to parlain, shield size doesn't effect guarding, only self blocking



Is there any test or proof for this? i ve read some vnboards posts(yeah yeah they r crap) that say indeed that shield size doesnt matter when guarding but none of them had any soldir proof to back it up.....from my personal experience i d say shield size doesnt matter when guarding but yestrday after grp pressureP) i turned back to large again and...maybe though i was blocking more?..or maybe they had lack of bb buffs yestrday who knows;P Anyway i d like know if theres a test or sth..tu^^

I had logs a few patches back done by me, a friend and a handy supply of non BaF mobs; parsing into excel and running a number of diagnostics I concluded that there seemed to be no discernable difference in GUARD % when facing multiple attackers and the size of your shield and neither does the direction you are facing either your attacker and the unit you are guarding.

Sadly this info was lost when my HDD died in the summer (along with my AF to Damage reduction curve :/) and I currently have no time or intention to perform a multi trial analysis complete with 1000 attack sample sizes over multiple attackers.

Not to mention that my suit of subject test armour and equipment dropped ~5-20% durability last time (esp my poor shield)

If anyone else would like to take the time and effort to recreate the tests to their own satisfaction I can remember how to set it up and give guidelines.

So since shield size only affects my surviabilty and theoretically I'm way down in the list of ppl to be attcked first (Guardxmen take notes pls) I use the smallest fastest shield I can get away with because the faster I can slam, the more savages I can pull off rats

It's highly annoying that primary weaponskill/spec is linked to shield styles hitting tho and not shield spec, which means you need to ensure a decent level of primary weapon spec to make sure your slam lands-which is another reason why arms would seem to make better guardbots; things like this conbines with a stupid 1000 unit range on end chant make me a sad tincan hybrid

Can't remember if the old lv46 small shield was faster than the new reinforced lv51 shield tho

P.S. If anyone has experience in determining cost maps, APE, NBAV and distribution strategy PM meh now cuz I r feeling lazy at my latest client

Edit: Drunkard, there used to be some tests over at the Paladin Barracks on the Drunken Friar regarding the testing of primary weaponskill vs shieldspec for shield styles; dunno if it's stiull there because they did an overhaul of the forums a little while ago

 

[splash0r]

what is sheild and block ? :xx

 

[zael_soulslayer]

Well my point was:

- Im 50 shield, mob 4, so higher spec possible, and wanted to know why arsman always do better guard than a pally.

I compared to Chuffy and he did 10x better guard, and he didnt have MoB and cannot remember aug dex, so i thought it was ws, some ppl told me it wasnt.

then does the class u chose change ur block rate?
wot u think?

P.S. Thx Pin

 

[VodkaFairy]

Originally posted by zael_soulslayer
Well my point was:

- Im 50 shield, mob 4, so higher spec possible, and wanted to know why arsman always do better guard than a pally.

I compared to Chuffy and he did 10x better guard, and he didnt have MoB and cannot remember aug dex, so i thought it was ws, some ppl told me it wasnt.

then does the class u chose change ur block rate?
wot u think?

P.S. Thx Pin

bad luck :/

 

[Flimgoblin]

Originally posted by zael_soulslayer
Well my point was:

- Im 50 shield, mob 4, so higher spec possible, and wanted to know why arsman always do better guard than a pally.

I compared to Chuffy and he did 10x better guard, and he didnt have MoB and cannot remember aug dex, so i thought it was ws, some ppl told me it wasnt.

then does the class u chose change ur block rate?
wot u think?

P.S. Thx Pin

who was doing the attacking in each case?

if you want to compare your blocking - get a cleric(or anyone, just keep it the same) to attack you about 1000 times each, find out how many missed

I like my shield merc though - gives the trolls a bit of a surprise when the "cleric" starts brutalizing.

 

[censi]

wood

 

[telaron]

Guard is not affected by the number of enemies. I've guarded aoe'ing clothwearers against 20+ blue con mobs without them taking a single hit.

 

[zael_soulslayer]

shield gets little advantage against 2h users or it doesnt?

So:
- Disadvantage against DW.
- Advantage against 2h
- Ws doesnt affect rly blocking rate.

hm.....