What is rvr..besides:

[gudrex]

Biaaaatch

Originally posted by Dook_Pug
You retard.

BaF and SU don't "own" anyone, they outnumber them. Any Alb/Hib that RvR's regularly knows this. Only problem is, when someone says it they get kicked from #daoc.prydwen.

Any time Eclipse has met a single group of BaF/SU we have won. Stop talking out of your arse.

Edit: Coren put it perfectly when he called you "Skill-less zergers" or something along those lines (and then was promptly banned from the channel, might I add.)

What a load of crap.....
Sure NS has grown to be a big alliance and a big force on prydwen but we don't zerg so often as you claim. I play a SB and since we are kinda useless in zergs i never participate when we grow to those numbers. Besides we are no lovers of zergs in NS either so we we become that many we often try to take some keeps instead.
The other thing u said is that we are skilless?
We don't have the numbers to zerg nearly as often so it would result in a whine here if we where. Most of the RvR i do (exept camping amg solo) is done in about 1-2 fgs. And i can't see that we get owned especially much. I think that we do pretty even with the respected guild in hibb/alb that we run in to every now and then.

 

[old.Nedowiz]

Originally posted by kjel
PIE! ICE CREAM! ICE CREAM PIE!

Awww remind me of Speedball 2 long time ago...... gifv Brutal Deluxe back

 

[Freia]

Originally posted by Freia
Yep it's pretty cool that the 3 realms work in quite different ways but it seems to me like Midgard could do with atleast ONE realm ability that can turn a battle around, since the other 2 realms have 2 each.

24 hours passed and not one flame. Not so much as a single disagreement. Cool then I take it that all agree :great:

 

[j000 d000d]

Originally posted by Freia
24 hours passed and not one flame. Not so much as a single disagreement. Cool then I take it that all agree :great:

I don't bother replying to a Healer that whines about overpoweredness :chortle:

 

[Freia]

Originally posted by Teador
I don't bother replying to a Healer that whines about overpoweredness :chortle:

Oh, that's not like you. Mayhaps you just did not have anything to say? Oh wait! You just proved that you didnt have anything to say

Edit: To be honest i was expecting some comments/feedback but ya'll just went completely silent. Very much unlike barrysworld.

 

[StormriderX]

Originally posted by Danyan
Quite how the realm with the best nukes, the best pbae, ae stun, the best end regen, the best light tank, the highest base damage heavy tank and the best CC class, and the best SI classes can think it's the gimpiest realm is beyond me. Seriously, learn to play.

 

[j000 d000d]

ye Danyan

only mids on prydwen whine

about other realms classes/spells/ra's that is

it's game over for the other realms if mids would have group RAs

 

[SilverHood]

but its game over for midgard unless we don't get a group RA

or ZZzzzzerg

 

[j000 d000d]

Originally posted by SilverHood
but its game over for midgard unless we don't get a group RA

or ZZzzzzerg

can i laugh?

 

[Dook_Pug]

Originally posted by SilverHood
but its game over for midgard unless we don't get a group RA

or ZZzzzzerg

Originally posted by Teador

only mids on prydwen whine

 

[old.SadonTheGrey]

Doesn't insta AE stun/insta AE mes justify not having one?

If they gave you an insta group win button, should Albion not get an insta ae mes, insta ae stun, insta mes, insta stun on sorcs?

 

[Freia]

Originally posted by old.SadonTheGrey
Doesn't insta AE stun/insta AE mes justify not having one?

I assume this was a reply to my post. THANKS for a reply which is worth the bandwidth! (well atleast compared to the other replies) :wub:

As for the answer: I have been thinking and I don't want mid to get a group instawin RA. I would much much much much rather see BAoD and BoF go away or get nerfed, cause instawin buttons just make fights random (RA is up = you win, otherwise you might still win ).

However, I cannot see what midgard has that justifies that the two other realms get abilities both for countering the mez AND for being close to immune to either melee (Albion) or to magic (Hibernia).

 

[Makwaerk]

Do you guys realice how many ppl are speccing out of pac these days? fact is that Mezz and stun is loosing its power when ppl run around with 50% resist, purge, special RA and if tank determination.

and remeber that the healer is mids Main healing class.. but as they are the main CC class aswell.. the healer is simply overworked.. it is danm hard to do all at once imo the healer is the class that takes most skill to play ( to play well that is)

 

[SoulFly Amarok]

Originally posted by Makwaerk

it is danm hard to do all at once imo the healer is the class that takes most skill to play ( to play well that is)

I agree with you here. Though, all it takes is practise.

 

[j000 d000d]

ummm just mezzing, and heals after? not much more to do tbh...

can mezz an enemy only once anyway

 

[pamela]

Originally posted by Teador
ummm just mezzing, and heals after? not much more to do tbh...

can mezz an enemy only once anyway

what about stun and root?

 

[exe]

Originally posted by Makwaerk
and remeber that the healer is mids Main healing class.. but as they are the main CC class aswell.. the healer is simply overworked.. it is danm hard to do all at once imo the healer is the class that takes most skill to play ( to play well that is)

Get 2 healers in grp, pac/mend+mend/aug=problem solved(talking from my own experience) Dont even try to comment on this if u've NEVER EVER done the above-_-

 

[Makwaerk]

well now you allrdy have 2 seers in the group.. now you put in the shaman for spec buffs that is 3 space allrdy ... I prefer the hib combo tbh

Bard+druid+Warden

add some hero's and chanters and you are flying imo

 

[exe]

Originally posted by Makwaerk
well now you allrdy have 2 seers in the group.. now you put in the shaman for spec buffs that is 3 space allrdy ... I prefer the hib combo tbh

Bard+druid+Warden

add some hero's and chanters and you are flying imo

U were playing in a gimped mid grp then with gimped players, but not classes>_<

 

[klavrynd]

pbt in scale , nuff said

 

[Jenna.]

imo classes are kinda fine but I would like to see some "I win" RA's for mid

 

[exe]

Originally posted by klavrynd
pbt in scale , nuff said

CC in chain, nuff said^^

 

[exe]

Originally posted by Jenna.
imo classes are kinda fine but I would like to see some "I win" RA's for mid

PR cant be considered as "I win" RA, but is still very usefull

 

[Solid]

I say give Thanes a RA that grants 50% boost in damage for all group members for 30 seconds

Makes Thanes wanted and gives us a unique RA that is not same as any of the other realms.

Alb and Hib have melee/magic immunity RA's, give Mid offensive RA then?

And anything on a Thane can't be overpowering so no way anyone can say that

 

[Jenkz]

had this "debate" on IRC yesterday, will do it again.

this thread (and discussion in IRC yesterday) is more about realm balanced than class balance, and will look at the 3 reams in the terms of:
1. resist buffs
2. buffs
3. pbt
4. crowd control
5. speed

a "balanced" group containing as much of the above as possible for each three realm may look like:

hib:

- warden (24% resists, 6sec PBT, in scale)
- bard (speed, insta CC, in reinforced)
- druid (heal/buff specced: 16% resists, buffs, group instas)

alb:

- minstrel (speed, limited CC)
- theurgist (usually 10sec PBT, very rarely 6sec pbt, limited CC, in cloth)
- cleric (heal/buff specced: 16% resists, buffs, group instas)
- friar (16-24% resists)
- sorc (CC, in cloth)

mid:

- skald (speed)
- runemaster (usually 10sec PBT, rarely 6sec pbt, in cloth)
- aug/mend shaman (buffs/heals/16% resists)
- aug/mend healer (group instas/16% resists)
- pac healer (insta CC, in chain)

--------------

6. resist debuffs

hib have: mana chanter (h/c/m) / void eld (s/b/e)
mid have: rc runie (h/c/m) / dark sm (s/b/e)
alb have: body sorc (h/c/m) / spirit cabalist (s/b/e)

--------------

7. Group RAs

hib have: GP on druid / BAoD on chanter
alb have: SoS on minstrel / BoF on cleric
mid have: .....

--------------

conclusions

1. resist buffs
2. buffs
3. pbt
4. crowd control
5. speed
6. resist debuffs
7. Group RAs

1. i dont play mid, but i would guess there are very few active rvr aug/mend shamies and aug/mend healers. those 8-24% resist buffs that are all so common in balanced hib/alb groups (from wardens, druid, friar, cleric) are clearly lacking for mid.

2. friendly buffbots may somewhat make this irrelevant, and im not entirely sure if druids spec "group friendly" or their pet line for AE root... i would say that there are more active rvr buff clerics (35 enhance) than active rvr buff druids or shamens, as its more viable for clerics to spec high heal/buff than druids/shamies (cause smite is shite)

3. hib have a massive upper hand with respect to PBT. they have 6sec pbt given to them on a class in strong armour. wardens may not be outstanding, but they sure stay alive longer + provide more to a group than than earth theurgists/supp runies. i do not know of any active 6sec PBT earth theurgs on prydwen, and only a handful of 6sec PBT runies. supp runies get the "luxuary" of nearsight/gimp snare nukes, earth theurgs get... 12% power consuming marhsmellow men. hardly supprising why there are no 6sec pbt active earth theurgs

4. CC is an iffy issue, come 1.60 i personally think its pretty fair..

5. skald is only grouped for speed. minstrel/bard at least can play support in other ways during encounters

6. resist debuffs accross the three realms are clearly unbalanced. h/c/m debuffs are more common, but hib have a large upper hand with chanters having 179 baseline heat dds. RC runies can use similar tactic with 159 baseline dark nukes sacrificing 10sec PBT for some reduced variance by speccing dark. i know of no spirit cabalists in albion. overall this issue needs completely rethinking imo, having classes be able to debuff their own damage while others cannot even obtain a debuff from friendly realm mates due to resist debuffs being in "unviable" lines.

7. Group Purge vs SoS : if you are mezzed and SoS is fired, you can only move... you will still need to purge/be demezzed to fight/cast
BAoD vs BoF : my problem with BAoD is it stacks with resists. there are screenshots of hibs with 100% in some resists and over 90% in the others. BoF on plate/chain wearers maybe harsh, but will only provide 50% absorb to casters - you can still take down albs (with melee) while BoF is up, try and take down hibs (with spells) while BAoD is up
BAoD also makes hibs pretty much CC immune

i personally would like to see bof's effectiveness capped to around 60% absorb max, and baods effectiveness capped to 60% magic resist max too.. that would mean they are still effective, but not compeltely overpowering in "balanced" groups

mid is clearly lacking a group RA, however as danyan said above, midgard have the best CC/best light tank/best nuker in the game, something along the lines of group purge or baod in the hands of mids would be horrific


--------------


summary

1. sort bof/baod RAs so they dont make magic/melee pretty much usless while up.
2. sort resist debuffs accross the three reamls, a completely different implementation (possibly "procs" on tanks) would be ideal
3. midgard is clearly lacking those 8-24% resist buffs from active aug shamies and aug healers, where they are second nature to balanced hib/alb groups
4. the "base" classes for a balanced group: hib need 3, alb need 5 and mid need 5 (some of which hardly exist) this is hardly fair.

long post, if u cba to read it oh well

 

[Fafnir]

Originally posted by Jenkz
had this "debate" on IRC yesterday, will do it again.

this thread (and discussion in IRC yesterday) is more about realm balanced than class balance, and will look at the 3 reams in the terms of:
1. resist buffs
2. buffs
3. pbt
4. crowd control
5. speed

a "balanced" group containing as much of the above as possible for each three realm may look like:

hib:

- warden (24% resists, 6sec PBT, in scale)
- bard (speed, insta CC, in reinforced)
- druid (heal/buff specced: 16% resists, buffs, group instas)

alb:

- minstrel (speed, limited CC)
- theurgist (usually 10sec PBT, very rarely 6sec pbt, limited CC, in cloth)
- cleric (heal/buff specced: 16% resists, buffs, group instas)
- friar (16-24% resists)
- sorc (CC, in cloth)

mid:

- skald (speed)
- runemaster (usually 10sec PBT, rarely 6sec pbt, in cloth)
- aug/mend shaman (buffs/heals/16% resists)
- aug/mend healer (group instas/16% resists)
- pac healer (insta CC, in chain)

--------------

6. resist debuffs

hib have: mana chanter (h/c/m) / void eld (s/b/e)
mid have: rc runie (h/c/m) / dark sm (s/b/e)
alb have: body sorc (h/c/m) / spirit cabalist (s/b/e)

--------------

7. Group RAs

hib have: GP on druid / BAoD on chanter
alb have: SoS on minstrel / BoF on cleric
mid have: .....

--------------

conclusions

1. resist buffs
2. buffs
3. pbt
4. crowd control
5. speed
6. resist debuffs
7. Group RAs

1. i dont play mid, but i would guess there are very few active rvr aug/mend shamies and aug/mend healers. those 8-24% resist buffs that are all so common in balanced hib/alb groups (from wardens, druid, friar, cleric) are clearly lacking for mid.

2. friendly buffbots may somewhat make this irrelevant, and im not entirely sure if druids spec "group friendly" or their pet line for AE root... i would say that there are more active rvr buff clerics (35 enhance) than active rvr buff druids or shamens, as its more viable for clerics to spec high heal/buff than druids/shamies (cause smite is shite)

3. hib have a massive upper hand with respect to PBT. they have 6sec pbt given to them on a class in strong armour. wardens may not be outstanding, but they sure stay alive longer + provide more to a group than than earth theurgists/supp runies. i do not know of any active 6sec PBT earth theurgs on prydwen, and only a handful of 6sec PBT runies. supp runies get the "luxuary" of nearsight/gimp snare nukes, earth theurgs get... 12% power consuming marhsmellow men. hardly supprising why there are no 6sec pbt active earth theurgs

4. CC is an iffy issue, come 1.60 i personally think its pretty fair..

5. skald is only grouped for speed. minstrel/bard at least can play support in other ways during encounters

6. resist debuffs accross the three realms are clearly unbalanced. h/c/m debuffs are more common, but hib have a large upper hand with chanters having 179 baseline heat dds. RC runies can use similar tactic with 159 baseline dark nukes sacrificing 10sec PBT for some reduced variance by speccing dark. i know of no spirit cabalists in albion. overall this issue needs completely rethinking imo, having classes be able to debuff their own damage while others cannot even obtain a debuff from friendly realm mates due to resist debuffs being in "unviable" lines.

7. Group Purge vs SoS : if you are mezzed and SoS is fired, you can only move... you will still need to purge/be demezzed to fight/cast
BAoD vs BoF : my problem with BAoD is it stacks with resists. there are screenshots of hibs with 100% in some resists and over 90% in the others. BoF on plate/chain wearers maybe harsh, but will only provide 50% absorb to casters - you can still take down albs (with melee) while BoF is up, try and take down hibs (with spells) while BAoD is up
BAoD also makes hibs pretty much CC immune

i personally would like to see bof's effectiveness capped to around 60% absorb max, and baods effectiveness capped to 60% magic resist max too.. that would mean they are still effective, but not compeltely overpowering in "balanced" groups

mid is clearly lacking a group RA, however as danyan said above, midgard have the best CC/best light tank/best nuker in the game, something along the lines of group purge or baod in the hands of mids would be horrific


--------------


summary

1. sort bof/baod RAs so they dont make magic/melee pretty much usless while up.
2. sort resist debuffs accross the three reamls, a completely different implementation (possibly "procs" on tanks) would be ideal
3. midgard is clearly lacking those 8-24% resist buffs from active aug shamies and aug healers, where they are second nature to balanced hib/alb groups
4. the "base" classes for a balanced group: hib need 3, alb need 5 and mid need 5 (some of which hardly exist) this is hardly fair.

long post, if u cba to read it oh well

Send this to Mythic, never thought an alb could be this good.

 

[Solid]

Faf did you REALLY have to quote his entire post for a 1 line response directly below? DUH

Anyway yes superb post from an OBJECTIVE player it seems, nice one Kenkz

Sanya has said she will pass on good feedback from non US DAoC players so please do send it on to her.

Its in a superb bullet point format, precicely what she asked for on her latest grab bacg.

Any albs/hibs got any arguments to what Jenkz has said so far? considering you so vehemently argued pretty much gainst what Jenkz posted above for the majority of 3 pages.

This post quite clearly shows what classes in general need help, what realms need help as well.

Mid needs 50% of their classes to make a balanced RvR group (yes u forget we get the least classes to pick from and even then a lot of them classes are one trick ponies (Skald anyone?)

 

[j000 d000d]

Still

you can fit a lot more abilities into 1fg of hibs than in 1fg of albs

actually, you can just fit all of them in a fg of hibs, at least, the really useful ones.

solution: make 2fg albs

 

[<Wels>]

so did anyone send it yet?

PS: there is one spirit cab on pryd/alb

 

[Jenna.]

Nice post Jenkz