Well done \o/

[Rustane]

re. the title "back to normal" only thing hibs need to do now, is to wrap the power relic in for the albs to pick up at 24 DEC as a christmas present. Then we have the same situation as we had not long ago, before nf came. They will "AS USUAL" guard eachother and let us from the free world of the northern hemisphere suffer for the lack of obedience, to our leaders.

you might agree, you might get pissed on me for writing this, but i cannot keep quiet, and as we are living in a "free" world i just take the liberty to say my opinion.

What happned here is a little similar to the invasion of poland 1 sep 1939

Albs are the germans, that in great numbers flow our borders, and have done so since NF came. they have a good skill, VERY good dicipline which pays of in great numbers of players that will go for their target, stick to their plan, and for all FOLLOW THEIR LEADER, SHUT UP AND OBEY WHAT HE TELL THEM TO DO, AND WHEN TO DO IT.

Hibs are the Stalin era Russians, they tumble along with their allies, sticking to the non aggression pact (molotov-ribbentrop) and get the crums that the albs leave behind. Their forces are fewer in numbers but have some high quality players / chars. hib is the leecher realm overall, as they run into a flok of mids, pbaoe and run away again without hurting the albs, no news in that, this is their normal business.

Mids are the hopless polish forces, on horseback with lances, that charge panzers, while discussing their leaders dispositions, and they are never more than 2 FG together, cause they have heard some wise man say that if you Solo, or if you go in FG aganist FG, or max 2 fg you get far more RP than if you are in a Zerg (Zerg = negative word in mid). Mids clap your heels and say Jawohl when the raid leader gives an order. Then cut his head afterwards, if he was wrong. Too often too much valuable time gets wasted, in discussions that are irrelevant at the time.

I dont like the enemy, but i can tell when we have been fools, too many mids are stuck in rvr like when they ran MPK ->MMG -> APK in Emain, before NF. STOP it, or find another game to play, this is not a counterstrike or call of duty clone. This game is about 3 countries at war against eachother.

You might just say about this comment: why does that guy not take command himself, when he thinks he is so wise, and I am NOT, im not the big rvr player, for me it is far more important to have a functional guild, where ppl are happy to play and stay in, than getting myself a lot of rp. The reason why i might have a different view of things is that i before daoc came, mainly played strategy games, and that i have a military education in real life.

Just a little comment of tonights events, from:

Vonwar
GM Danish Huscarls
Prydwen Server

Best post ever I am with you and im sure my guildies are too.

 

[Lokir]

hmm?

So the mids defending Bledmeer knew the albs were after the relics but didn't suicide on the Hibs and go defend?
As for numbers-
Midgard as the same or MORE people than albion and hibernia, its not our fault that ALL our RvR was in one area instead of split around various keeps etc.

Maby have a real life? Myself logged at 3 cet and thats way to late for me!
Blebmeer is an important keep when it comes to opening relic gates if i got it right.

 

[Bubble]

Maby have a real life? Myself logged at 3 cet and thats way to late for me!
Blebmeer is an important keep when it comes to opening relic gates if i got it right.

It was way to late for me ^^ i didn't see the end of the raid.

 

[Cerbie]

I expected this to happen for some time. Vonwar and Grivne are right, our weakness is that we can't seem to be able to work together. Even in the bg people are on different spots and when we fail the leader got the blame.

I understand very well that it must be hard to lead a bunch of "I know better, but don't want to lead" people. As for the remarks in bg that Wholdar finds annoying, well try to lead once and you will find yourself shouting the same things.

I hoped when NF came the opted groups and the rps whores would stopped, and we would play united, but its still the same.

All I can say is albs and hibs deserve their victory, they worked hard on it.

Mids, myself included, got their pay back. I was on a ml raid and in contrary to what I would have done before : leave the raid and go for defence, well I didn't care for one minute what happened to the relics and stayed on the raid.

 

[Etzel]

Actually Dwera, somewhere the game must be fun aswell. We´ve been constantly defending (except for 4-5 days) since NF-release. I for one have had it for a while, it´s just no fun. =)

Actually Wholdar hit the nail right on the head, the vast majority of action has been in the Mid frontier and it gets boring real quick. I dont blame Albs/Hibs for hitting us because that's what the new realm war map encourages, find the flames and follow them. And to whoever said we should have seen it coming on Wednesday, yes we did, but when you fight til the early hours just to control a situation the act of taking back previously captured keeps has to be left til another day/another timezone group come on.

And I agree completely that a break without relics will be nice, time for me to finish my xmas preparations, watch TV and generally unwind

 

[Rudor Dwarf]

Cerbie hehe how many "opted" groups have you seen since nf ?

I think that is 2, Mael and Bo i think thats 16 players so plz what shall those 16 do vs the force of alb and hib if not rest of mids can play together?

 

[Bubble]

re. the title "back to normal" only thing hibs need to do now, is to wrap the power relic in for the albs to pick up at 24 DEC as a christmas present. Then we have the same situation as we had not long ago, before nf came. They will "AS USUAL" guard eachother and let us from the free world of the northern hemisphere suffer for the lack of obedience, to our leaders.

you might agree, you might get pissed on me for writing this, but i cannot keep quiet, and as we are living in a "free" world i just take the liberty to say my opinion.

What happned here is a little similar to the invasion of poland 1 sep 1939

Albs are the germans, that in great numbers flow our borders, and have done so since NF came. they have a good skill, VERY good dicipline which pays of in great numbers of players that will go for their target, stick to their plan, and for all FOLLOW THEIR LEADER, SHUT UP AND OBEY WHAT HE TELL THEM TO DO, AND WHEN TO DO IT.

Hibs are the Stalin era Russians, they tumble along with their allies, sticking to the non aggression pact (molotov-ribbentrop) and get the crums that the albs leave behind. Their forces are fewer in numbers but have some high quality players / chars. hib is the leecher realm overall, as they run into a flok of mids, pbaoe and run away again without hurting the albs, no news in that, this is their normal business.

Mids are the hopless polish forces, on horseback with lances, that charge panzers, while discussing their leaders dispositions, and they are never more than 2 FG together, cause they have heard some wise man say that if you Solo, or if you go in FG aganist FG, or max 2 fg you get far more RP than if you are in a Zerg (Zerg = negative word in mid). Mids clap your heels and say Jawohl when the raid leader gives an order. Then cut his head afterwards, if he was wrong. Too often too much valuable time gets wasted, in discussions that are irrelevant at the time.

I dont like the enemy, but i can tell when we have been fools, too many mids are stuck in rvr like when they ran MPK ->MMG -> APK in Emain, before NF. STOP it, or find another game to play, this is not a counterstrike or call of duty clone. This game is about 3 countries at war against eachother.

You might just say about this comment: why does that guy not take command himself, when he thinks he is so wise, and I am NOT, im not the big rvr player, for me it is far more important to have a functional guild, where ppl are happy to play and stay in, than getting myself a lot of rp. The reason why i might have a different view of things is that i before daoc came, mainly played strategy games, and that i have a military education in real life.

Just a little comment of tonights events, from:

Vonwar
GM Danish Huscarls
Prydwen Server

Funny stuff

Tho i wouldn't class the Hibs as the Stalin Era russians Not one step back comrades! Shoot the Cowards! If anything the albs were like this Hibs would be the well organised with less numbers and Supieror weapons (Germans? or English?) And the Mids would be the zerg of American Hillbillys moving in random directions

 

[Etzel]

Mids, myself included, got their pay back. I was on a ml raid and in contrary to what I would have done before : leave the raid and go for defence, well I didn't care for one minute what happened to the relics and stayed on the raid.

Maybe i'm weird but if I commit myself to a ML I see it through to the end, not doing so is disrespectful to the raid leader and the rest of the raid.

 

[Bubble]

Cerbie hehe how many "opted" groups have you seen since nf ?

I think that is 2, Mael and Bo i think thats 16 players so plz what shall those 16 do vs the force of alb and hib if not rest of mids can play together?

opted groups aren't the answer in NF tbh, numbers and Leadership do much more.

 

[Martok]

i wasnt online but what i hear was a great night for all but Mid!!

So Well done to all and unlucky mids im sure you will be screwing us over again soon enough!

 

[Rudor Dwarf]

Bubble it was for Cerbie's QQ about opted groups not play together with the other realm ppl (that is on a ml).

 

[Wholdar]

I understand very well that it must be hard to lead a bunch of "I know better, but don't want to lead" people. As for the remarks in bg that Wholdar finds annoying, well try to lead once and you will find yourself shouting the same things.

That could be true, but then again, perhaps that is the reason why I am not leading? If you can´t stop yourself from throwing out insults then perhaps you shouldnt lead? I don´t think anyone is blaming the ones that try to lead, but it seems we are all quite sure of that a real leader is lacking - which means that we have none now. =)

A leader that would be successfull does not throw out insults, it is very contra-productive, it is not how you motivate people. This is true in business, military and also in a game like this one.

I´m not trying to educate anyone in how to become a leader, I think those traits that are required are quite hard to learn, you must just have them, and far from everyone does. I´m trying to find a few reasons to why we´re not working together as we should now. I am quite certain lots of it is because we are not having fun together while defending - and I am also quite certain that noone enjoys being insulted.

I think Snornig did the best attempt yet to lead a week or so ago, when she/he/it took the lead in defending the realm. She/he/it did so without insulting anyone, and was trying very hard to be informative and patient with people. She/he/it (gah, getting boring now) also appointed sub-leaders that lead their own little grouping in certain tasks. That defence was successfull, and I´m quite sure people found it quite fun aswell, and not only that it was successfull in itself, but also in that the cooperation worked.

My post was not intended to put down Dwera or anyone else that tries to pick up the leader-flag in Midgard. I´m trying to analyze why we´re not successfull as of yet. I think, and perhaps I´m the only one, that this yelling and insulting is a big part of it. If you know that you´re gonna be told you suck immensly if the defence fails, or that you will read that you aren´t worth shit in a post on FH the day after, then perhaps you´re not that inclined to partake in the defence at all?

Just my thoughts, Dwera know I respect him lots, and Trollum also knows my stand in this - and I hope they take this post for what it is - and I´m also quite sure they agree with everyone else that we are lacking a leader right now.

I hope that one soon emerges. (Snornig, care to try again soon?) =)

/j

 

[Tesla Monkor]

Well, it was bound to happen. It's just a bit annoying that shit like this happens at insane times like it did.

Some people actually have to a job, and need sleep. Midnight/01:00 is the very latest I can make it without being a complete zombie at work. >_<

Can't wait for 1.71 when enemy relics become pretty much undefendable. :/

 

[haarewin]

i also think its funny that GoA considers hibs underpopulated..
straight out to you GoA: pull your heads out of your fucking a*ses and watch how it works ingame for f*cking once you useless pieces of sh*it hibs are as underpopulated as there is a kobold who is taller then 2m.

hibs are underpopulated, but pretty much everyone is in the frontiers now, compared to pre-nf, when there was like 1/2 groups in frontiers max. theres no pve at all going on, except some ml raids. not even pl groups most of the time.

grats albs and grats hibs

 

[Mad]

theres no pve at all going on, except some ml raids. not even pl groups most of the time.

IMO people are fattening themselves up on RvR before getting all the PvE they want in WoW.

 

[Darklis]

So many valid points from all in this thread.

I can understand Wholdar entirely, leading a bg is a lot of stress and hard to get right. I’ve been leading BGs on Alb for a while, and there is no “insta-win” button, in fact, some nights the BG just gets wipe after wipe. Sometimes it is a wrong decision and sometimes it’s just plain bad luck.

I think the only thing to realise is that it’s actually the same for every realm, and it’s not just the BG leaders that make the raid, it’s the people in the BG that keep their heads up and keep trying, even though they could have been wiped for the 4th or 5th time.

I know that when Alb lost their relic and Eras and Surs were claimed, albs were really low morale wise, and it took us a few nights to clean house before we could venture to the enemy frontiers. Any large raid should be viewed like eating a meal. You can’t eat it all in one bite, slow and steady does the trick.

Also I completely agree about some BGs being counter-productive. People flaming/contradicting the leader constantly in a BG just weakens it. I have been known in the past to have a finger accidentally slip onto the /remove button if it happens too much . Also if I feel that the forces are getting split too much I usually form a new BG, stating clearly “This bg is for XXX” so we don’t get dragged all over the place and diverted too much from our plans.

Sorry if I have waffled too much!

D xx

 

[Boggy]

I've led a fair amount of stuff in the past and have also seen others do it with varying degrees of success. There are some very simple things that help immensely if done and hurt equally if not done.

1) Give frequent, simple instructions. EG, say "ALL MOVE BLED1". If you got a spammy BG, repeat it 2 or 3 times.

2) Don't go silent. If you've not got a new instruction to give and you've not said something for a few mins, repeat/recap what people should doing/where they should be at. After you BG wipes - which it will since noone wins them all - it is particularly important not to go silent and leave people wondering. People will leave.

3) Don't enter into discussions. There's always someone (sometimes many people) who thinks they know better. Don't try to justify yourself to them. PM them asking them to let you lead. If they keep contradicting your instructions, remove them from the BG.

Some other things that make smaller amounts of difference, but can help:

4) Pick some secondary leaders who can be relied upon to support you and/or undertake key tasks (patrolling, sorting ram, etc). Either set them as leaders or start a CG with them

5) Sort groups. Sometimes you get BGs where people are not sorting themselves into groups. There's no excuse for this - it's just laziness or foolishness on their part - but the quickest way to resolve it can be for the leader to look at /bg groups and direct specific group leaders to invite specific people.

6) Sort out key issues before you're in hot water. The best example of this is siege equipment. Make sure you know you have enough siege BEFORE you move out. Don't wait until you get to a keep then ask who has what.

Well I hope noone minds me giving my 2 bob on this, but I really have led a fair amount of stuff in Hib and the things I mentioned are common issues.

Another thing for people to remember is that the people not leading owe as much to the BG as the leader does. It's the leadership that people focus on when things go right or wrong, but if you've got a bunch of people who listen and respond you can accomplish much more than if you've got a bunch of people so busy giving you their preferred plan they destroy the cohesion of the force.

 

[Jupiter]

shhh, dont give the game away Peat...

hmm 4-5 weeks ago, Hibs were getting rolled over lots, Albs/Mids were laughing at us because come NF (1.70 in particular)they thought all they had to do was turn up in our frontier and walk away with our relics (remember all those w8 for NF threads), we planned, we prepared for the onslaught, got our tactics working and people working together and people were prepared to keep trying...

call it what ya like, we never single out 1 realm, u leave towers unclaimed yer asking for trouble, u dont retake yer keeps fast yer asking for trouble, Hibs took 1st keeps in NF, Hibs took 1st relic in NF... now albs/mids w8 for salvation in 1.71, but 1.71 suits us even better.....

 

[Jobil]

Wholnar - regarding the post about mids giving fuck all about rvr and relics, alb was in same shape pre-NF, it'll pass really. true it sucks when it goes on, but its only a temporary state.

 

[Jobil]

shhh, dont give the game away Peat...

hmm 4-5 weeks ago, Hibs were getting rolled over lots, Albs/Mids were laughing at us because come NF (1.70 in particular)they thought all they had to do was turn up in our frontier and walk away with our relics (remember all those w8 for NF threads), we planned, we prepared for the onslaught, got our tactics working and people working together and people were prepared to keep trying...

call it what ya like, we never single out 1 realm, u leave towers unclaimed yer asking for trouble, u dont retake yer keeps fast yer asking for trouble, Hibs took 1st keeps in NF, Hibs took 1st relic in NF... now albs/mids w8 for salvation in 1.71, but 1.71 suits us even better.....

heh that made me chuckle

 

[Corran]

Must say well done to alb and hibs. Wasn't there last night because actually took a early night, however if it was like during the day then the team work must of been good.

During the day when first hitting bledmeer people were doing as fendrin (i think) was saying. Didn't agree with it? Well you didnt spam /bg with it. I myself spoke to him in /send giving advice and possible tactics to use. That way no one confused, no one bitching and people know whom the leader was. Interestingly Albs worked together for the 1st time I seen since NF. Ok fell apart a bit later but it didnt matter to much then.

Hibs were a constant annoyance. They kept taking our towers and leeching onto the albs to help mid. We lost the ability to port in a few times, we lost the ability to defend and retreat because hibs bit at our heels. No double teaming there but made it interesting.

Problem with NF is that the warmap says instantly "Come here" to the 3rd realm. This means if there big attack going on then they bound to turn up. dont matter where it is. So that why both relic raids have had the 3rd realm involved. Someting we need to get used to.

Mids, well when you got both realms attacking and no animalist's <G> there just aint a way. And with bledmeer attacked you would need 2 forces because it was such a key keep, one the reasons it was pounded to dust earlier in the day. Knowing if you occupied there then elsewhere is safe. Feel sorry for you that the hibs came and hit there as well as left you no chance

Hopefully out the ashes a leader will appear for you, your realm will have upper hand again soon no doubt. Just keep faith, us albs know how hard it can be.

 

[Rustane]

shhh, dont give the game away Peat...

hmm 4-5 weeks ago, Hibs were getting rolled over lots, Albs/Mids were laughing at us because come NF (1.70 in particular)they thought all they had to do was turn up in our frontier and walk away with our relics (remember all those w8 for NF threads), we planned, we prepared for the onslaught, got our tactics working and people working together and people were prepared to keep trying...

call it what ya like, we never single out 1 realm, u leave towers unclaimed yer asking for trouble, u dont retake yer keeps fast yer asking for trouble, Hibs took 1st keeps in NF, Hibs took 1st relic in NF... now albs/mids w8 for salvation in 1.71, but 1.71 suits us even better.....

Well done hibbies

 

[remi]

relics, remove em from game ....zz

 

[Boggy]

During the day when first hitting bledmeer people were doing as fendrin (i think) was saying. Didn't agree with it? Well you didnt spam /bg with it. I myself spoke to him in /send giving advice and possible tactics to use. That way no one confused, no one bitching and people know whom the leader was. Interestingly Albs worked together for the 1st time I seen since NF. Ok fell apart a bit later but it didnt matter to much then.

From my experience, it's better to /send than to /bc but the best is to try to hold your opinion back unless it is something really crucial (eg the leader has said "Go Bled" when he means "Go Blend").

What I think most people have trouble picturing is the chat of a /bg leader during a large operation. You get it coming from all angles and keeping up with it is very difficult. Having 2-3 people PM you their opinions on top is not helpful, no matter what little gems of advice might be in them - it's simply moving too fast.

The BG leader makes a plan. If he's stuck, he has the option of asking for advice (I've done it a few times since I'm not the most experienced RvRer). If he doesn't ask for advice you have to assume he has a plan he thinks will work.

 

[Puppet]

relics, remove em from game ....zz

^^^^

 

[Flombert]

Gratz albs and hibs...

The thig is we opened a backdoor wedensday night and was able to keep it that way.
I at that point had a feeling that hibs would at some point get a force together and hit bledmeer and they did last night.
Being surprised by the little resistence we were getting at hlid and blend we decided to prepare for when hibs might get bledmeer.

We went glen and no serious resistance, hibs still trying for bled at this point so we went notts. I actually thought we would get wiped at notts as we didn't have that big a force but it went well and I think that while we were there the fight at bled ended between hibs and mids.

so when things were as calm as they were and we had no serious inc at either keep we went notts and succeded, sprinted for the relic and no serious resistance at any point.

Was great fun and gratz to albs for actually following and sticking to the BG and it's leaders till the end... well done.

 

[Vonwar]

relics, remove em from game ....zz

Then let us get gold and glory stones like on Gorre, all rr 12 and stop doing rvr, cause there is no point in rvr if we have no relics to fight about, no meaning or you might concider a "shoot them up" game like call of duty or such, cause it sure is nothing about warfare between countries anymore. If ppl cannot learn the soft way let them learn the hard way. Relics +25% each instead of +10%, and !!! Let there be some kind of bonuses for having full groups, of cooperating instead of high realm rank players refusing to run with low rank players.

Stop talk about leech, the chain is never stronger than the weakest link. The little guy today (low rr) will never get experience if he is refused to get some success.

Vonwar
GM Danish Huscarls
Prydwen Server

 

[boppas]

Im sure before long mids will get there act together & carry our a successful RR. Every realm at some point has its lows for its own reasons. I was suprised to find we had no resistance from mids when we grabbed the str relic, Surely there would have been enough of you to stop us as our relic was no more than 2FG's, as some mids have already said in disgust, seems alot of mids dont seem to be bothered about there own relics whereas others will drop whatever to help defend. Thats one of the strongest points of Hib, we all pull together when needed, when we got the chance to grab a relic there were less than 40hibs online. But we still managed to get enough of us together.

The only resistance we got from mids was less than a FG just outside the relic grounds, Yes it was early hours but surely there were still a fair few mids online at that time that could have got to the relics to defend as soon albs took the last keep?

Anywayz ..was a good night not just for the relic but the many fights all through the night

Cyaz soon
Bops

 

[Belisar]

Seems to be a few threads all repeating the same or similar stuff but here goes...

Mids feel they have been picked on - well if I look hard enough I can find a couple of posts from albs saying exactly the same thing (before last night). Emain was the main RvR place before NF so we seem to have all had our turn at being defensive.

Hib is not under-populated. Well you know what they say about statistics. Hib has less numbers for sure but it does seem most of them go RvR. That is not a hib problem that is a problem with the peeps in the other realms.

Lack of leadership and no respect in BG's. I would say hibbies had similar problems before. We always had the leaders but not always the peeps who would listen and act sensibly. We seem to have got over that in a way and there is no doubt that having some damn good peeps like Aran makes a huge difference.

I am sure the middies will be back battling again.

 

[Evul]

OMG!!!!1111111

Best of of been taken after 12 since we got whine at for an alarm clock raid....

Hopefully albs now know that RR Take alot of time