Film Watchmen...

[Scouse]

I've been really looking forward to this Alan Moore classic hitting the silver screen for a long time now. In fact, it's the only film I'm looking forward too tbfh.

Love the story, it draws direct parallels with all sorts of things but right up there is 9/11. If you've never read it - go out and buy the graphic novel. It's one of the best reads you'll ever have. (My tip would be to read the story bit first and then the "interludes" later, maybe at a re-read)

Aaaaaanyway. Mr. Moore has publicly disowned all films of his work - he says when "they" make the films they keep on ruining the political subtext and the like. Subtle (or not so) changes to the underlying message that he was trying to get across.

Over a pint of Theakston's finest ale in a nearby public house last night, a friend of mine, who I'd normally describe as in "the know", told me of change that, if true, would probably make me not want to see it.

Proper spoiler - so don't read if you don't want to know:

Spoiler

Apparently, there's no fucking alien! I mean, the whole plot is based around Ozymandias pulling off a 9/11-style stunt to fool the world into uniting against mythical alien aggression!

So if there's no alien, which is a pretty major story change, what the fuck are they going to do?

I do hope I'm misinformed

Whaddayas reckon peeps?

 

[Uara]

Yeah i've heard that rumour as well does make me very warysome of what they're doing instead. I just hope they dont have it so that ...........

Spoiler

its Dr Manhattan causing the explosion in the city

as thats what I've been hearing elsewhere, its just not right!!

Fingers crossed they will keep it as it is, as its gotta be one of my favourites books of all times!! Leaves you with some real moral questions at the end.

 

[Scouse]

If they do...

Spoiler

...fuck up Dr. Manhattan and have him blow shit up, then...

...fucking GRRRRRRRRRR.

How hard can it be just to film the basic story eh?

 

[rynnor]

How hard can it be just to film the basic story eh?

Its not very hollywood to do that tho - ever see Dune?

They changed the basic plot in that one by adding a load of crap about wyrding modules.

 

[inactionman]

Spoiler

Yes, no pan-dimensional squid, instead Ozy uses nukes, based on reverse engineering of Dr. Manhattan's powers.

At least that's what I've heard. Doesn't sound so bad.

 

[inactionman]

So it's due out in just under 3 weeks and the BFI Imax cinema still aren't selling tickets, plus their online booking hasn't worked for over a week. What a cock-up!

 

[DaGaffer]

To be honest

Spoiler

I've been hearing about the squid no-show on i09 for months, and I'm not too bothered. If you think about it, a giant teleporting fake dead space squid that causes psychic trauma is pretty fucking rubbish, so replacing it with some other external "threat" is fine by me. So long as that threat isn't Doc Manhatten himself (which would make no sense at all), then I'm cool with it. The important thing is that the threat has to be perceived as external; Ozymandeus is trying to unite all of humanity, so any human-based threat, or anything that isn't obviously not of this Earth, completely wrecks the plot.

 

[inactionman]

Imax tickets now on sale, and apparently selling very fast. If you want them I suggest you do it quickly!

 

[kirennia]

Other things to look out for with the film:

Spoiler

The cinema version isn't going to have any of the tales of the black freighter as that's being held until DVD release where they're turning it from a 3hour spectacle into a 5 1/2 hour epic.

Also shortly after the films coming out, I've been hearing that an animated version of the story, true to the original plot/ending is coming out too. Seems like they're going the whole hog with this one.

And yes I agree, it's absolutely absurd how they're replacing it with nukes... the book made sense; if just random explosions happened, the chances are, at least one superpower would turn around and fire theirs expecting it to have been another country who started it in the first place, even if they don't know the technology. It just plain doesn't work... well, then I suppose we should reserve judgment.

 

[old.Tohtori]

I have the graphic novel(bought it a long while back 'cause it was "best seller" and never read it...freakin' bible ), then came the movie trailers etc and just wondering if i should read it before i see the movie.

You know, read it to get the "familiar bonus" to the movie, to make it better.

Or...don't read it to save any surprises.

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

Read it after the movie Toh.

 

[Scouse]

Fuck that, read it before. The original format is always better...

 

[old.Tohtori]

Two thumbs up for giving reasons why

Original is always better, but like with the LotR, it was better that i hadn't read LotR before as the "what next" element gave it more appeal.

 

[Scouse]

Two thumbs up for giving reasons why

Original is always better, but like with the LotR, it was better that i hadn't read LotR before as the "what next" element gave it more appeal.

I agree about the "what next" element, but I'd still rather have that experience with the original text than a 9-hour abridged film.

LOTR is my all-time fave btw. Cliche? Yep, but a good 'un

 

[DaGaffer]

Just seen it, got to say, I really enjoyed it. Some of it was hacked to around to suit the medium but overall it was far more faithful to the source material than pretty much any other Hollywood adaptation I can remember.

Highlights; Casting: Rorshach and The Comedian absolutely were spot on, Dan Dreiberg even more so, and Manhatten worked. Sally Jupiter was good enough. Set Design: fekkin awesome. Action sequences; good, and faithful to the original.

Not so good:

Spoiler

Veidt was a bit blah, and despite being nearly 3 hours long, it still felt rushed; whole chunks of backstory, particularly Rorshach's, have to be trimmed. Its also pretty graphic; more so than the comic. I don't have a problem with that but it was rather too lovingly done for my tastes. Oh and the Nixon scenes were a bit jarring, too played for laughs

And then there's:

Spoiler

The Squid. Or rather, there isn't. But you know what? What they've come up with works well enough and suits the story better.

Overall, recommended. Didn't feel like nearly 3 hours in the cinema.

 

[Scouse]

Spoiler

The point about the "external threat" being a giant squid is that at the same time it "confirms" the existence of an aggressive alien lifeform.

Moore was using a classic Nazi method in his book - a massive lie is easier to believe than a small one. It'd take that sort of lie to unify the world against a threat. Pretty much the same way that the terrorist threat is being massively overstated by governments now....

 

[DaGaffer]

Spoiler

The point about the "external threat" being a giant squid is that at the same time it "confirms" the existence of an aggressive alien lifeform.

Moore was using a classic Nazi method in his book - a massive lie is easier to believe than a small one. It'd take that sort of lie to unify the world against a threat. Pretty much the same way that the terrorist threat is being massively overstated by governments now....

Spoiler

It still has a suitably "massive" lie, and it plays on the title as well

 

[RandomBastard]

I saw it tonight and loved it, but i've not read the original, will be doing so now though.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Spoiler

Didn't read the book, good thing, as if i knew the plot, it would've been rather a drag to watch.

Good movie, worth the monies, watch it as a psychological movie instead of an action movie and you'll enjoy it a plenty.

Not worth the hype though, and it's more of a home movie then a theater movie. Jaded effect nation i know "Huge explosions, yeah yeah...seen it." Funny really

Some things were outright "err?", regarding the plot and such;

Like the whole mars building thingy, unexplained and just something you knew was there because "it looked good when the artist drew it back then". But it's how the story goes so, it's how it goes. Can't really complain, it'd be like complaining about superman being vulnerable to kryptonite :lol:

Action was action, pure and simple, and it looked good. Though the hallway prison combat scene(read: 300 homage), could have used more interesting things. Now it was more of a punch punch thing, when they could have played around with nice combat moves more. Lost potential there.

That all being said, on a scale from "utter bullshit" to "awesomesauce", i give it a "well done".

 

[PLightstar]

Watched it yesterday, enjoyed it though I can't believe the price of the cinema almost £8 for a film I can get a DVD for that.

May have to pick up the orginal and read up on a few things as a few things were not explained in the film and I want an explanation.

 

[Scouse]

Spoiler

Like the whole mars building thingy, unexplained and just something you knew was there because "it looked good when the artist drew it back then".

Spoiler

The mars building thing is explained really well in the book. Dr Manhattan becomes sort of disenfranchised and realises that the changes that he's been through and the way he views space-time mean that he can no longer relate to the human race. He fucks off to Mars and makes that building simply as an "intellectual exercise", a study of form and shape, so to speak. He builds it atom-by-atom and for the reader you're supposed to understand that, as Carl Sagan said, we're all made of star stuff

and

May have to pick up the orginal and read up on a few things as a few things were not explained in the film and I want an explanation.

Do that. It's great

 

[old.Tohtori]

Spoiler

The mars building thing is explained really well in the book. Dr Manhattan becomes sort of disenfranchised and realises that the changes that he's been through and the way he views space-time mean that he can no longer relate to the human race. He fucks off to Mars and makes that building simply as an "intellectual exercise", a study of form and shape, so to speak. He builds it atom-by-atom and for the reader you're supposed to understand that, as Carl Sagan said, we're all made of star stuff

Spoiler

Aye and i noticed that the line "like turning air into gold" was the meaningful part, 'cause at first i thought the building was glass, but on retrespect it was gold i guess. Or..glassgold..or...some such!

But in the movie, for non fan, it was a bit of a "Dur? Cool looking but...", which bothered many bits of the movie. Then again, normal durrr people don't think that much :lol:

I'm betting, that after i read the novel finally(owned it for years) and then watch the watchmen, it'll be a better movie.

 

[DaGaffer]

Spoiler

But in the movie, for non fan, it was a bit of a "Dur? Cool looking but...", which bothered many bits of the movie. Then again, normal durrr people don't think that much :lol:

I'm betting, that after i read the novel finally(owned it for years) and then watch the watchmen, it'll be a better movie.

Spoiler

That's a fair criticism; my girlfriend, who hasn't read the book, was a bit "what was that all about?" over a few sections of the film, particularly the Mars segment. The counter-argument is that if you have read the book, you feel a bit short-changed by some of those scenes because they feel rushed and a bit over-simplified. On balance though, I'd say it works a bit better if you have read the book, because every time you start to feel a bit short-changed, a fanboy-pleasing moment of absolute faithfulness to the book comes along and you forget all about it.

 

[inactionman]

Remember that there's an even longer cut, this was just the theatrical release! Just wait for the extended edition blu-ray with the black freighter inserted in, complete with wall-o-text!

I thought it was visually impressive, but too slavish an adaptation. Also annoyed me that it wasn't in proper imax.

 

[Vae]

Saw it tonight with Mycenae. I enjoyed it. Very true to the book and the significant change they did make didn't change the story and, I think, actually made more sense and worked better.

It was nice to see no known actors in the film and the characters were very well done to the book with teh possible exception of Ozymandias but I grew used to him and by the end of the film was fine with him compared the the book's version. Lots of nice little fan details in it as well such as the newspaper stand etc.

Mycenae on the other hand didn't enjoy it. She said it was too confusing, the sound quality was shit and it didn't explain enough things (like wtf was Ozymanias's pet cat etc). I think they've been so faithful to the book that anyone who has read it will like it but it will turn off a lot of the public.

Judging by the audience tonight and also when I was looking at showings over the weekend I think it will flop at the box office. It was in the biggest screen of our local Odeon (probably 300 or so) and there was probaly only 30ish people in there and the odeon site was showing similar numbers booked at the showings over the weekend.

I do have to echo Mycenae about the sound quality though. When Rorschach first spoke I had trouble understanding him. I got more accustomed to him over the film but it was still difficult to make out.

I will probably get it on Blu Ray when it comes out but I think it will remain a cult film.

 

[mycenae]

Just seen it with Vae. Haven't read the book. Now not sure I want to as really didn't enjoy the film all that much. There were some aspects that were excellent, such as the combat/fight scenes and the SFX....but there was so much that I didn't get....I didn;t even know that the other chap was called Ozymandias till Vae told me afterwards, I couldn't understand a word Rorshach said, and the Nixon scenes were simply awful....I kept expecting him to pull of the clearly fake mask and reveal someone else. The cat type thing threw me as well.

I'm glad I saw it....but I won't choose to watch it again.

 

[Turamber]

I think they've been so faithful to the book that anyone who has read it will like it but it will turn off a lot of the public.

I haven't read the book but really enjoyed the film. Half of the audience left after the action finished and thus missed the twist in the tale in the last five minutes or so, which was strange.

There were no problems with hearing the guy speak at my viewing ... perhaps it was a problem with the cinema's sound equipment?

 

[mycenae]

the volume wasn't the problem....understanding him was, he was so muffled!

 

[Jupitus]

the volume wasn't the problem....understanding him was, he was so muffled!

You need to tell Vae to get his tongue out of your ear... you're not teenagers any more, ya know!!!!!

 

[Vae]

You need to tell Vae to get his tongue out of your ear... you're not teenagers any more, ya know!!!!!

Compared to you we are - actually we're probably babies in comparison