Very simple game changes that will make everyone happy!

[Morchaoron]

How to make both the oped 8v8 fotmers and roleplaying zergers happy in this game? I have the solution which would actually be possible within the game engines limits!

When you enter the RvR zone with your group, the group leader gets a popup window with 2 options:

"CHOOSE GAME MODE"
-Battles of Honor
-Total Warfare

While in "Battle of honor" mode, you can only see and interact with other players who have chosen "Battle of Honor" mode, this is the 8vs8 setting.
As soon as you interact with a enemy group in any way (spell, insta, arror, melee) then both your group and the enemy group will become invisible to ALL other players in the game except for each other, both groups can fight out their battle without having any adds for the full duration of the fight!
After the fight is over (they are out of combat), both teams stay in their invisible state for 1 minute (to run away from the location), then they become visible again to other players in "Battles of Honor" mode.

Some other important things in "Battle of Honor" mode:
-There are no other npcs visible in the frontier, you cannot interact with them in any way
-You cannot enter or interact with keeps, towers or relic keeps
-You can never leave "Battles of Honor" mode while in the frontier
-You can only be ressed by people in your own group


"Total Warfare" works like rvr now, with the difference that you cannot see or interact with those in "Battles of Honor" mode in any way, this mode is for those who want to take keeps/relics and who dont mind zerging or getting zerged, players in "Total Warfare" mode can only change mode by returning to the border keep with the full group.


Benefits of this system:
-You can finally play the game the way YOU want to play it!
-oped fotm 8vs8 players can fight their battles without EVER having adds again, EVER!
-roleplaying zergers can take keeps without having to deal with oped fotmers who laugh when they win but cry a river when they get zerged!


thx for your time m8s! if there are any questions i am willing to answer them!

(PS: if you you think this system is stupid, i think you are stupid too! And NEVER dare to whine again about (if you are a oped fotm 8v8er) zerging roleplayers and (if you are a zerging roleplayer) about oped fotm 8v8ers)

 

[Equador]

An interesting thought, but don't you think people will take advantage of the invisibility?

 

[Morchaoron]

An interesting thought, but don't you think people will take advantage of the invisibility?

nononono wait:

people in battle of honor CANNOT interact with keeps/relics or any other players not in battle of honor mode, so it gives you ZERO advantage (in a way its not supposed to give you)

and while in combat with another group, they cant see or interact with anyone in the game except each other (the 2 groups)


so this 'invisibility' is only there to prevent interaction from people who have nothing to do with the mode or fight, but you are not invisible to EVERYONE, and you can never see someone who cant see you, its a 2 way invisiblity/invulnerability..

 

[belxavier]

nononono wait:

people in battle of honor CANNOT interact with keeps/relics or any other players not in battle of honor mode, so it gives you ZERO advantage (in a way its not supposed to give you)

and while in combat with another group, they cant see or interact with anyone in the game except each other (the 2 groups)


so this 'invisibility' is only there to prevent interaction from people who have nothing to do with the mode or fight, but you are not invisible to EVERYONE, and you can never see someone who cant see you, its a 2 way invisiblity/invulnerability..

so u coulda ended fight be running to rest up in your 1 minute immunity and find ur actually alsmost on stick to an enemy grp cos u both can see each other?... wont always happen but in busy areas is a large chance both just gonna pop out the blue, and will be minimal times to react for ccers etc as wont even have clip range necessarily.

 

[Tsabo]

Battle of Honour? So the people that are in the "Legion" of 5 fgs fighting for their realm and purging their lands of the enemies, and making sure they control their own Keeps etc. These people aren't honourable?

Yet the ones that leave the keeps to be controled by their enemies ARE honourable?

Hang on... am I missing something here?

This will never happen as it's not the way the game was intended. People get added on, fair enough, deal with it, not hard to /rel and go back is it.

 

[Joohl]

Other changes could be:
Total Warfare, max groupsize 5peps so we don't have those optedfg running around farming us random noblets or soloers all night, thats maby a change we could use aswell.
If we wan't to go totaly zergish in T.W. why not try groupsize 16peps or even 20, thers a change that would shake the ground some.

I wonder if Mythic/GoA ever tryed larger groupsetup, should be fun to have a server with nolimit on groupmembers, even if were only a test. Like have a rvr group /RVRjoin <Name>, that would work in same way as /BG, could be some realy nice guild fights (zergs) throu that system.

Another change that would be great for PvE servers, would be to have all and any rp in any frontier devided between all char logged in to that zone, even the BB. That meaning more BB=less rp/kill.

 

[zYnc]

Battle of Honour? So the people that are in the "Legion" of 5 fgs fighting for their realm and purging their lands of the enemies, and making sure they control their own Keeps etc. These people aren't honourable?

Yet the ones that leave the keeps to be controled by their enemies ARE honourable?

Hang on... am I missing something here?

This will never happen as it's not the way the game was intended. People get added on, fair enough, deal with it, not hard to /rel and go back is it.

Call it Battle of Wimps then, whatever, don't really care. It's a very good idea imo.

 

[Morchaoron]

Battle of Honour? So the people that are in the "Legion" of 5 fgs fighting for their realm and purging their lands of the enemies, and making sure they control their own Keeps etc. These people aren't honourable?

i was referring to the 'honour' of fighting battles evenly, like duels between 2 people without some 3rd person plunging a knife in ones back!
(and its just a name, call it whatever you want)

so u coulda ended fight be running to rest up in your 1 minute immunity and find ur actually alsmost on stick to an enemy grp cos u both can see each other?... wont always happen but in busy areas is a large chance both just gonna pop out the blue, and will be minimal times to react for ccers etc as wont even have clip range necessarily.

this is easily fixed, if a enemy group is within clipping range (and just outside) when the group who is supposed to return from there 'after battle invisiblity' state to visible, they get a message instead saying "you notice enemies nearby and remain in hiding", and after the enemies have left the range your group becomes visible again, hah!

 

[belxavier]

this is easily fixed, if a enemy group is within clipping range (and just outside) when the group who is supposed to return from there 'after battle invisiblity' state to visible, they get a message instead saying "you notice enemies nearby and remain in hiding", and after the enemies have left the range your group becomes visible again, hah![/QUOTE]


xD might work but then again this is all up in the air

 

[Dumle]

How bout a solomode then? Or a duomode? Or a Even Realmrank mode?

Would take so many modes to make everyone happy that noone could freely attack anyone else and we are forced to go back to PvE by the time they are done if they go this path

Good idea but will never and should never happen Im afraid.


The mode best used when playing MMORPGs is, tolerance and perseverencemode

 

[Morchaoron]

How bout a solomode then? Or a duomode? Or a Even Realmrank mode?

Would take so many modes to make everyone happy that noone could freely attack anyone else and we are forced to go back to PvE by the time they are done if they go this path

i thought about that too, but since its a 'mmorpg' i think that most people dont play this to do strictly 1vs1, since there are much better games then daoc for that (judging from class design it was never really meant for 1vs1 anyway)...

i think these 2 game modes will be the most wanted and appropriate

The mode best used when playing MMORPGs is, tolerance and perseverencemode

if that would work then i would have never started thinking about this system ;p

 

[Zebolt]

And how are this gonna work technically if it's as simple as you say? Say before a healer has been interacted for example, how will he be incivible? And how are the game going to know who are and who ain't part of the battle? Are there any range on this? Any timer? And how far away from enemies do you have to be to get visible again? And does this prevent mobs from attack you aswell? And are keeps invisible to the invisible players? If so is there any buildings that ain't? And what happens if you're fighting players who ain't part of this honor thing and some honor ppl attack you? does everyone just vanish?

It might had come something good out of this if some mythic dude have had it, cuz' indeed the idea is good, but I think it would require alot of work and be no where near simple :>

 

[Morchaoron]

Say before a healer has been interacted for example, how will he be incivible?
When this healer has not interacted yet, he and his group is visible to everyone, as soon as this healer mezzes or touches a single person of a enemy group, that group and your group become invisible to all others players in the game except your own group and the one you are fighting (yes all players in both groups)


And how are the game going to know who are and who ain't part of the battle?
Simple: everyone outside of these 2 groups become invisibile and invulnerable to the 2 groups who are fighting, and vice versa

Are there any range on this? Any timer?
After all players are out of combat (from both groups), then both will be revealed again to all other players in honor mode after 1 minute, regardless of range

And how far away from enemies do you have to be to get visible again?
You cannot turn visible again to other players if a other enemy group is within clipping+1000 range

And does this prevent mobs from attack you aswell?
In honor mode, all mobs are neutral and are not caught in area spells while neutral, but if you attack them with a single spell or attack they will hit back, and they can still be mind controlled/charmed whatever
but the mobs will give NO exp, money or items

And are keeps invisible to the invisible players? If so is there any buildings that ain't?
they are not invisible, tho the npcs are invisible/invulnerable (as are you to them), you cannot climb or enter any keeps or outposts (even if doors are down, they have invisible walls in front of them)


And what happens if you're fighting players who ain't part of this honor thing and some honor ppl attack you? does everyone just vanish?
Like i said, in honor mode there is a 2 way invisibility/invulnerability for those who are not in honor mode, and if in honor mode you interact with a enemy group, both of the groups vanish for the others who are not part of the fight (and vice versa)


^^

 

[Kinag]

Sounds like a great idea, but won't happen due to the MMORPG (_massive_ multi online roleplaying game).

I hate zergs as much as the next one, but I doubt mythic would even considering coding something new like this, not when they are looking into instanced rvr zones, if that is still in their head.

 

[Aeva]

Nice idea mate, though I think it'll just complicate matters and I dont see it happening

 

[Aeris]

in final fantasy 11, you cannot leech onto other peoples mobs cos they are in battle mode, and you cannot attack mobs in battle mode. maybe something like that for people who coose? like a play on the /nohelp thing maybe?

 

[Zebolt]

Say before a healer has been interacted for example, how will he be incivible?
When this healer has not interacted yet, he and his group is visible to everyone, as soon as this healer mezzes or touches a single person of a enemy group, that group and your group become invisible to all others players in the game except your own group and the one you are fighting (yes all players in both groups)

I said in the first line or so how are you technically gonna do this. This sounds easy on the paper yes, but it's farm from easy to implement in the game without full time supervision over the two grp and I don't think Mythic/GOA has staff for that.

And how are the game going to know who are and who ain't part of the battle?
Simple: everyone outside of these 2 groups become invisibile and invulnerable to the 2 groups who are fighting, and vice versa

Simple? HA! I can fly irl, see that was easy to say too, but I still can't do it ^^

Are there any range on this? Any timer?
After all players are out of combat (from both groups), then both will be revealed again to all other players in honor mode after 1 minute, regardless of range

So what you're saying is that you can easily sneak past 7 ppl through a zerg guading the relic milegates, just have 1 ppl fighting a soloer in another zone and make sure you are close enough to not be able to be visiable before he's done then just walk through..

And does this prevent mobs from attack you aswell?
In honor mode, all mobs are neutral and are not caught in area spells while neutral, but if you attack them with a single spell or attack they will hit back, and they can still be mind controlled/charmed whatever
but the mobs will give NO exp, money or items

That would be very cool if you could explain how you were thinking they were gonna do that. One invisible sorc tries to charm a neutral mob. While at the same time it aggro a hunter running past and it's pet starts attacking it. The players don't see eachother but they see the same mob and are both interacting it.

And are keeps invisible to the invisible players? If so is there any buildings that ain't?
they are not invisible, tho the npcs are invisible/invulnerable (as are you to them), you cannot climb or enter any keeps or outposts (even if doors are down, they have invisible walls in front of them)

That will be very alot of thinking aswell. The same keep at the same time, shut to some and open to others.

And what happens if you're fighting players who ain't part of this honor thing and some honor ppl attack you? does everyone just vanish?
Like i said, in honor mode there is a 2 way invisibility/invulnerability for those who are not in honor mode, and if in honor mode you interact with a enemy group, both of the groups vanish for the others who are not part of the fight (and vice versa)

So basically if you're fighting a zerg that are not in honor mode and 1 guy in honor mode attack you your whole grp will vanish and will only be able to kill the soloer, sounds like fun... xd

 

[Cromcruaich]

Sounds overly complicated (but not bad as a basic principle), but how about ...

Just have a /groupduel command, everyone in 2 groups becomes immune to damage from any other person outside the opposing group while in duel mode.

Group leaders could spam it to any other person who is a member of a group (hey why not even in the same realm) at which point a message is sent to opposing group leader who can accept (oh and stick the duel requests between the same 2 groups on a timer to stop griefing).

Duel is over when all opposing enemy dead, or any 2 members of the group are over say 5000 world units away (or whatever), or no damage has been dealt for say 2 minutes.

Im sure you could flesh the rest out.

Would probably have to make kills less realm points though as I sense it could be exploited.

 

[Puppet]

I want a mode without Warlocks, Bonedancers, MOC-lafjtap.

 

[Morchaoron]

I said in the first line or so how are you technically gonna do this. This sounds easy on the paper yes, but it's farm from easy to implement in the game without full time supervision over the two grp and I don't think Mythic/GOA has staff for that.

I dont know anything about their code ofcourse, but from all ive seen in the game this is within the limits of their engine and should be far less work then NF was (no graphics, maps, abilities need to be changed)
also on the supervision, i think you missed something cuz no supervision is required at all, i dont understand what you mean ;o


Simple? HA! I can fly irl, see that was easy to say too, but I still can't do it ^^
bad comparison, this is a coding issue, again, i dont know the source code but this should be possible ;p

So what you're saying is that you can easily sneak past 7 ppl through a zerg guading the relic milegates, just have 1 ppl fighting a soloer in another zone and make sure you are close enough to not be able to be visiable before he's done then just walk through..
ehhh you missed something, the moment you enter the frontier and you've chosen "honor" you can in no way interact with the other mode again until you leave the frontier again and go back in with a different mode.

That would be very cool if you could explain how you were thinking they were gonna do that. One invisible sorc tries to charm a neutral mob. While at the same time it aggro a hunter running past and it's pet starts attacking it. The players don't see eachother but they see the same mob and are both interacting it.
good one, all "honor" players should get their own set of mobs then, which cannot interact with non-honor players the same way as players from different modes can, and as soon as 2 groups engage in combat those mobs turn invsibile aswell so you wont have any adding mobs either

That will be very alot of thinking aswell. The same keep at the same time, shut to some and open to others.
Not at all, you simply bump into a invisible wall thats around the keep, which is perfectly within the limits of this engine, remember those old bugs where you sometimes couldnt see keep doors and you could just walk through them?
well if such barriers can disappear accidently for some individuals then mythic can certainly place them intentionally ;p
(also doors to milegates and buildings that have nothing to do with keeps at all do not exist anymore for those in honor mode to prevent doors doing funny things when they are opened by those in warfare mode)

So basically if you're fighting a zerg that are not in honor mode and 1 guy in honor mode attack you your whole grp will vanish and will only be able to kill the soloer, sounds like fun... xd
again you missed something, the whole point is that that people in one mode CANNOT SEE OR INTERACT WITH THOSE OF THE OTHER MODE, so if you are in honor mode and some friend tells you there is a zerg going on (in wafare mode ofc) and for some reason you want to fight it, then you will have to go all the way back to your border keep first to switch mode to 'warfare' mode, then re-enter the frontiers and you will be able to see and fight them

it works a bit like when you are dead in WoW, the spirit/living thing, where the dead cant see or touch the living, and vice versa, but they can see each other, and they are still in the same zone ;o

 

[Vilje]

Imho doing this to a regular server would ruin the spirit of the game, atleast for me. Making it sort of predictable.

Just to come with an alternate suggestion, built on your ideas; What if we had an own server which works like thid, and also works similar to your Battles of honor mode? Sort of an GvG server.

But then again that might kill the regular servers if it becomes too popular

EDIT: Grammar

 

[Alyssania]

Problem is most high rr groups say they want 8v8 fights when they get zerged and are perfectly happy running over the 4 member random groups...
So if this server would come they would probably spend about 1h fighting each others before moving back to farm the noobs mode...

 

[Maeloch]

Problem is most high rr groups say they want 8v8 fights when they get zerged and are perfectly happy running over the 4 member random groups...
So if this server would come they would probably spend about 1h fighting each others before moving back to farm the noobs mode...

Aye tis all talk. I think peeps underestimate how much the chaos/unpredictability contributes to the longevity of the game, nm how much they whine about it.

Duelling only game/server would be dead v quick imo - what happened to all the peeps supposedly going iPvP?

Mael, 50th ment.

 

[Roadie]

I think peeps underestimate how much the chaos/unpredictability contributes to the longevity of the game, nm how much they whine about it.

Duelling only game/server would be dead v quick imo - what happened to all the peeps supposedly going iPvP?

word 8)

 

[Zebolt]

Ok Morch, so you want the different modes to have an each set of the zones? Placed on different servers maybe? So you will never be able to fight those on the other mode? Am I following this far? Won't the risk be a bit high then to get kinda lonely in the honor mode? Since all the ppl RvR guilds fight between eachother is kinda important to not get too bored.

And if you don't mean that I don't think you understand how much work it is code wise to make "parallel universes" and having ppl move between them automatically. You would have to have alot of "parallel universes" aswell since every fight needs it's own. That would mean that they would need to have several servers and it would still be a limited amount of fights that could go live into this invisible mode at the same time and will be a problem not only money wise but allso if there would happen to be more fights at the same time than the amount of provided servers. And not to mention everytime it bugs and the game leaves the healer outside the invisibility.. Imagine the whines

But as I said the idea is cool, but it would take alot of work and thinking to implement.

 

[BlackrazoR]

Aye tis all talk. I think peeps underestimate how much the chaos/unpredictability contributes to the longevity of the game, nm how much they whine about it.

Duelling only game/server would be dead v quick imo - what happened to all the peeps supposedly going iPvP?

Mael, 50th ment.

True. Also would take a lot of the querks out of the game which I suppose is what you mean by chaos. The interest comes in there being so many possibilities etc. and without that I wouldn't enjoy this game.

 

[Straef]

Aye tis all talk. I think peeps underestimate how much the chaos/unpredictability contributes to the longevity of the game, nm how much they whine about it.

Duelling only game/server would be dead v quick imo - what happened to all the peeps supposedly going iPvP?

Mael, 50th ment.

Kinda liked the idea of ipvp, just a shame that it's rather buggy and full of ***** ;<

 

[Morchaoron]

Ok Morch, so you want the different modes to have an each set of the zones? Placed on different servers maybe? So you will never be able to fight those on the other mode? Am I following this far? Won't the risk be a bit high then to get kinda lonely in the honor mode? Since all the ppl RvR guilds fight between eachother is kinda important to not get too bored.

And if you don't mean that I don't think you understand how much work it is code wise to make "parallel universes" and having ppl move between them automatically. You would have to have alot of "parallel universes" aswell since every fight needs it's own. That would mean that they would need to have several servers and it would still be a limited amount of fights that could go live into this invisible mode at the same time and will be a problem not only money wise but allso if there would happen to be more fights at the same time than the amount of provided servers. And not to mention everytime it bugs and the game leaves the healer outside the invisibility.. Imagine the whines

But as I said the idea is cool, but it would take alot of work and thinking to implement.

no, you can choose between a mode when you enter the frontiers, and if you want to change you just leave the frontier and enter it again ;p

and the 'parallel universes' shouldnt be so difficult code wise, because its not a parallel universe but its just a illusion: they are still there but you just cant see or interact with them anymore, the reason it should be this way is that you WONT need any new servers for it and you WONT need any extremely hard 'parallel universes' new code, you will need some, but it would be well within the limits since they only need to write something that can give players a unique 'flag' that allows them only to see and interact others with the same flag...

it will work a bit like duels now: 4 people can duel, they can hit the one they challenged for a duel, but they cant hit those from the other duel or those not in a duel around them!
in my version, they would only have to make it for 8v8 and flag everyone not in this 'duel' as invisible for these duelers (and vice versa), and instead of typing '/duel challenge', the duel is automatically triggered the moment you attack/cast on a member of that group...

no extra zones or servers needed, only need to modify some stuff thats (more or less) already in the game ;p

 

[Iceforge]

no, you can choose between a mode when you enter the frontiers, and if you want to change you just leave the frontier and enter it again ;p

and the 'parallel universes' shouldnt be so difficult code wise, because its not a parallel universe but its just a illusion: they are still there but you just cant see or interact with them anymore, the reason it should be this way is that you WONT need any new servers for it and you WONT need any extremely hard 'parallel universes' new code, you will need some, but it would be well within the limits since they only need to write something that can give players a unique 'flag' that allows them only to see and interact others with the same flag...

it will work a bit like duels now: 4 people can duel, they can hit the one they challenged for a duel, but they cant hit those from the other duel or those not in a duel around them!
in my version, they would only have to make it for 8v8 and flag everyone not in this 'duel' as invisible for these duelers (and vice versa), and instead of typing '/duel challenge', the duel is automatically triggered the moment you attack/cast on a member of that group...

no extra zones or servers needed, only need to modify some stuff thats (more or less) already in the game ;p

cant help to note, that for the coding issue for this, it is already there...

Stealth anyone?

Just give all in Honour mode a SeeHiddenClipRange ability vs. Honour stealth and a honour stealth which work as rank 500 stealth, and vice versa for those who choose "chaotic battle" mode, wouldnt be hard.

Dont like the idea through, but the code is there...

 

[Zebolt]

cant help to note, that for the coding issue for this, it is already there...

Stealth anyone?

Just give all in Honour mode a SeeHiddenClipRange ability vs. Honour stealth and a honour stealth which work as rank 500 stealth, and vice versa for those who choose "chaotic battle" mode, wouldnt be hard.

Dont like the idea through, but the code is there...

No it's not stealth, it can not be stealth. If it was stealth it would be exploited to oblivion and everytime someone draw aggro of a mob they would be visiable again