Help Verbal Contract

[Pfy]

Hiyas,

Just after opinions, maybe a few ideas and not much insulting.

Recently I had someone undertake work for me for an agreed price, we entered into a verbal contract and this was confirmed on at least 2 occaisions.

Anyway, now its all done the other party 'cant remember' the conversations and keeps referring me to the initialy price in emails that i didnt agree to. Now I've received a demand for the outstanding payments for the origional quote and not for the agreed contractual price we agreed via the phone.

I've been advised to issue a breach of contract letter but am unsure whatelse I can do as I'm not prepared to pay anything more than was origionally agreed as I don't agree with being ripped off. Anyway. Not sure if thats clear or not but hey.

I know the other party has to chase me and can only try and make me pay by going to small claims but im just a bit pissed off / stressed as they're going back on our agreement.

Oh and anyone thats going to slag me off for entring into a verbal contract I'd rather you didn't waste either mine, or your time.

 

[ST^]

But you already wasted my time by posting this.

Pay the difference and take it as a lesson learned. Unless we're talking thousands here?

 

[gohan]

Hiyas,

Just after opinions, maybe a few ideas and not much insulting.

Recently I had someone undertake work for me for an agreed price, we entered into a verbal contract and this was confirmed on at least 2 occaisions.

Anyway, now its all done the other party 'cant remember' the conversations and keeps referring me to the initialy price in emails that i didnt agree to. Now I've received a demand for the outstanding payments for the origional quote and not for the agreed contractual price we agreed via the phone.

I've been advised to issue a breach of contract letter but am unsure whatelse I can do as I'm not prepared to pay anything more than was origionally agreed as I don't agree with being ripped off. Anyway. Not sure if thats clear or not but hey.

I know the other party has to chase me and can only try and make me pay by going to small claims but im just a bit pissed off / stressed as they're going back on our agreement.

Oh and anyone thats going to slag me off for entring into a verbal contract I'd rather you didn't waste either mine, or your time.

verbal contracts are still binding, jsut impossible to prove as its your word v his, but unless you have signed to agree to his original quote your not in a contract with him either so tell him you you pay what was agree'd or you will pay nothing and he can lose even more money on court fee's

 

[tris-]

not sure what youre asking here.

a contract is a contract regardless of it being spoken, drawn on the wall in shit or good old fashioned pen on paper. if there was an offer, acceptance, payment/promise of payment, and one party was a business than bobs your uncle.

you goto SCC, the proof is only on balance of probabilities. who ever can put forward the best story wins. looks like your opponent has some kind of viable evidence of a term of the contract.

best off pay the old boy if he is serious on court action, unless you want to risk costs etc too.

 

[Pfy]

I havent signed or agreed to any of the quotes in writing or verbally as it was all done via the phone/person.

When it was initially disputed after the works were nearly completed the third party agreed to finish the work for our agreed price and not their quoted price. We said we'd pay the retainer once we received an email stating the account was settled upon the final payment. This was promised (I have the text messages) several times but never turned up and now the thrid party wants the origional quoted price.

That make sense?

Oh and top whack SCC cost is £120 plus maybe some expenses such as travelling.

 

[gohan]

So we don't have a written contract. I've confirmed nothing with the third party in writing and everything was done verbally, I've never accepted the written quotes either verbally or in writing and I should just pay someone that goes back on our verbal contract because they ask me to?

We're not talking £50, no.

no as i said offer him the choice of amicable talking what was offered or let it got to SCC which will be messy time consuming and expensive

 

[tris-]

maybe so, but nothing has to be accepted in writing ever. thats an old wives tale.

no one except you two know the terms of the contract because nothing is written down. no problem until their is dispute. the other bloke has emails with quotes. your actions might suggest you accepted this price.

you can goto court if you think you can spin a yarn better than he can.

 

[Uara]

also it might be worth it to try and find some consideration for why a lower price was agreed upon (the verbal contract).

 

[Pfy]

also it might be worth it to try and find some consideration for why a lower price was agreed upon (the verbal contract).

What do you mean?

To be honest, I feel like I've been set up. Everything was hurried up and ended up starting x weeks early so the last bit was rushed as I'm on a tight time frame.

 

[Pfy]

maybe so, but nothing has to be accepted in writing ever. thats an old wives tale.

no one except you two know the terms of the contract because nothing is written down. no problem until their is dispute. the other bloke has emails with quotes. your actions might suggest you accepted this price.

you can goto court if you think you can spin a yarn better than he can.

One message said that we never disputed the email sent, but we did, just on the phone :/

Oh and I've already paid the third party over 90% of verbally agreed price, alas they're wanting an additional 26% (116% total)

 

[tris-]

tough way to learn that next time, everything should be written down for your own benefit.

 

[Cadelin]

also it might be worth it to try and find some consideration for why a lower price was agreed upon (the verbal contract).

I agree with this, if you can present any reasonable argument why you agree a lower price then that is going to be convincing evidence. The emails mean nothing, they are just quotes.

Did you get any other quotes? (could you show you would have gone with another without the discount?)
Was there a good reason for the discount?
If you hadn't got a discount, is there a good reason why you wouldn't have taken the offer?
Is there anybody else that you told about the price?

If you can bring up something convincing like that its going to be very difficult for the other party to get the extra money even if they go to court.

 

[Pfy]

I agree with this, if you can present any reasonable argument why you agree a lower price then that is going to be convincing evidence. The emails mean nothing, they are just quotes.

Did you get any other quotes? (could you show you would have gone with another without the discount?)
Was there a good reason for the discount?
If you hadn't got a discount, is there a good reason why you wouldn't have taken the offer?
Is there anybody else that you told about the price?

If you can bring up something convincing like that its going to be very difficult for the other party to get the extra money even if they go to court.

I had a lower quote which is why the price dropped to pretty much the same. Otherwise, I'd have gone with the other party.

That simple really. This is why the price came down and this is why this person was chosen.

 

[Uara]

What do you mean?

To be honest, I feel like I've been set up. Everything was hurried up and ended up starting x weeks early so the last bit was rushed as I'm on a tight time frame.

Ummm if the work started after the e-mail conversations but before verbal discussions:
did the person who you agreed to pay a lesser amount for gain anything for this change in price. Courts arn't the most lenient when it comes to contracts when a smaller sum is being offered than originally decided on.

However if the work didnt start till after the verbal conversation then essentially it will come down to what Tris- said and whether you can prove that its your account is more likely.

and yeah what Cadelin said and this will show that he gained a potential benefit by decreasing the price otherwise he wouldn't have got any work off of you.

 

[Pfy]

Ummm if the work started after the e-mail conversations but before verbal discussions:
did the person who you agreed to pay a lesser amount for gain anything for this change in price. Courts arn't the most lenient when it comes to contracts when a smaller sum is being offered than originally decided on.

However if the work didnt start till after the verbal conversation then essentially it will come down to what Tris- said and whether you can prove that its your account is more likely.

Initialy verbal contract was 4 weeks before work commenced. Last confirmation was when I disputed an email sent 2 days before work commenced. The verbal price was agreed on the Saturday, the work started on the monday.

 

[Uara]

well from what you said if a final price was agreed upon the saturday after the last e-mail, then you could go to the courts and try and argue it. It will be his word against yours. Probably a better chance than if a lower price was agreed verbally once work had started.

 

[Moriath]

well you can refues to pay him and jsut givehim what you think is agreed and see if he takes you to court

other than that not a lot to do pay or not and see what he does

 

[Pfy]

Yeah it was after the last email that we agreed the price.

Moriath yes, I guess you're right. I've already paid £X000 and don't have a problem in paying the remainder of the verbal contract when the snagging is done, that's never been a problem. Anyway, thanks for your help.

Guess I'll just wait and see.

 

[Cadelin]

I had a lower quote which is why the price dropped to pretty much the same. Otherwise, I'd have gone with the other party.

That simple really. This is why the price came down and this is why this person was chosen.

Then you have a really strong case, that is very believable in court. Also the fact that you know specifically when these phone calls were will help with your case. Also ~15% is a believable amount to knock of the price if you are fighting for a contract.

If you tell the contractor you are working with this it may jog his memory about the phone calls and he may accept your payment.

 

[Ch3tan]

But you already wasted my time by posting this.

Pay the difference and take it as a lesson learned. Unless we're talking thousands here?

What are the actual chances of taking someone to small claims court though? Most contractors will not bother because the cost and time is more than it is worth.

I'd offer to pay what you agreed and no more, put it in writing and leave the matter. If they do actually try to take you to small claims court, then settle before it gets there.

 

[Jiggs]

Any witnesses to these conversations or phonecalls?

I'd set out in writing what you're prepared to pay for what, maybe even come a little bit towards his price as a gesture of good faith - but explain that you are doing that. Don't be confrontational; be reasonable and explain your position to the guy. Hopefully he will bite and if not you should have a stronger case if you do wind up in the small claims court.

 

[Chilly]

kneecap the ****

 

[MYstIC G]

I'd set out in writing what you're prepared to pay for what, maybe even come a little bit towards his price as a gesture of good faith - but explain that you are doing that. Don't be confrontational; be reasonable and explain your position to the guy. Hopefully he will bite and if not you should have a stronger case if you do wind up in the small claims court.

Put it all in writing now. Don't go down the gesture of good faith route as it just makes it look as though you're willing to pay more, which you aren't because you had an agreement and that's the basis of your dispute.

Make them do all the work.

Are the phone calls listed in your phones memory / phone bills?

 

[rynnor]

I had a lower quote which is why the price dropped to pretty much the same. Otherwise, I'd have gone with the other party.

When you say pretty much the same - was the newly agreed price better or worse than the lower quote you obtained from another supplier?

 

[Nate]

If you have made a phonecall to another company about the quote, get them to write down the agreed price that they gave you, when they gave you it, etc. Job done, he's fucked. I guess you could get your phonebill itemised and show that you rang at these times.

 

[Tom]

Did you pay in cash? If so, I doubt anyone would take it to court.

Pay what's left of what was agreed, and tell him to fuckoff.

 

[Nate]

And if he does take you to court, just replay this to get in the right mind set

YouTube- Half Life Meets A Few Good Men

 

[Pfy]

Other quote was slightly cheaper but less reputable firm (Oh how I laugh now).

I have the other quote in writing somewhere.

All my bills are itemised and I have all texts relating to this saved. Only witness is partner, both to telephone conversations and conversations had face to face. Both of which have been disputed.

Thanks for advice people, much a appreciated.