Motoring Used Car Advice (Long'un I am afraid)

[Raven]

The other week my wife's micra failed its MOT and the repairs would have been more than the car was worth. It was a great little car that she had from new 12 years ago so we decided to get her another Micra. Because I should be getting a company car in the next year we didn't really want to spend much so decided to get a used car. Anyway, we found another Micra, 5 years old with only 16k on the clock for £4k...all the bells and whistles, parking sensors and the like (its a special edition) We didn't take out the £500 warranty as generally they aren't worth the paper they are printed on.

We picked it up last Wednesday and initially thought it was great, I took it out to put a few miles on it as it has only done about 1k in 2 years according to the service book. I probably did about 20 miles. Anyway, as I was coming home the engine warning light came on. We phoned the show room and they said to take it to the garage they use, he did a scan and got a few codes, he then it and said that it may be down to the car battery being replaced, a bit of googling seemed to agree with this, the advice was to reset it and see what happens. We reset it and the code cleared.
The next day we drove down to Farnborough in it to give it a good run, 200 odd mile round trip. No problems at all, only actually used half a tank of posh petrol. The wife has been driving it this week without any problems but yesterday the engine light came on again. I took it to a friend of the family who runs the garage we use. He plugged it in and got the error codes.
One was for the battery running out in the key fob, which is essential as it has a twist button starter instead of using a key (the car only works if the fob is in range) That's not a problem, I can get a battery from a camera shop.
The one that worried me is "P0011 - "A" Camshaft Position - Timing Over-Advanced or System Performance (Bank 1)" After a bit of googling I am still unsure, it seems it can either be a faulty sensor (£20 odd) or a fucked cam chain which means they have to take the engine out to get at it...£1k+

My wife spoke to the showroom we bought it from this morning and they were initially very reluctant to help, stating that we didn't take out their warranty etc etc but eventually agreed to look at it. I took it down today and they plugged it in and again the same code came up. After a bit of a discussion they reluctantly agree to replace the sensor for free and the earliest they can do it is 9th August, ok fine...they have to get parts and whatnot. He then said that if it is anything else then they won't have anything to do with it!

Now, this is the point I start to worry a bit. I am usually an optimist but I can just envisage them replacing the sensor then a week later it shows an error again and then me facing a bill of £1k to get it repaired.

I spoke to my boss who buys and sells a lot of American muscle cars and jap imports as a hobby, he buys them, restores them and then sells them on. Anyway, he pointed me in the direction of the Sales of Goods act. I also did a bit of research. General consensus is that I can refuse the car and notify the show room that I reject the purchase and get my money back. I hope it doesn't go down that route as it can obviously get messy and probably get to the small claims court.

Anyway, has anyone had any experience of this? Legal fees and any legal aid...I can't really afford an army of solicitors!
I am writing to the dealership tonight, documenting what has happened and confirming that they are paying for a new sensor. Recorded and signed for delivery naturally.
Should I mention things like the sales of goods act? I don't really want to put them on the defensive straight off the bat...

Any advice would be welcomed.

tldr versions

Had car for 12 happy years
Car failed MOT
Bought Used car
16k miles, 5 years old
Used car broken
Dealership evasive over repairs
Dealership agree to small cost repairs
Dealer said if its expensive we are on our own.
Me write letter!

 

[Tom]

You cannot yet refuse the car as you haven't given the dealer a good chance to repair the problem, which as of now is just a light on the dash.

The dealer who sold the car cannot absolve himself of his responsibilities. If he refuses to repair the car, send him a special delivery letter giving him 7 days to respond, warn him if he does not you will take the car to a garage of your choice and have them do it. You'll then send him the bill, which may be four figures. Give him the option to refund your purchase (be careful not to make it appear as blackmail).

If he doesn't pay the bill, small claims court. But you must be able to demonstrate that you gave him the opportunity to fix it. Oh and it doesn't take that long to order a sensor. Oh another thing, you were right to refuse the warranty. They're a waste of money.

 

[Chilly]

at least wait til they replace the sensor before going postal. It might just be that.

 

[Jupitus]

at least wait til they replace the sensor before going postal. It might just be that.

... indeed. On a jap car with such a low mileage I would be seriously suprised if there was a genuine failure. Camshaft sensors are known to go on various makes/models.

 

[old.user4556]

What year Micra is it?

I've not read the full post, but Micras (around 2004 iirc) were notoriously bad for stretched timing chains which were later replaced with a revised part by Nissan. I wonder if you have a stretched timing chain which is causing the sensor to throw a wobbly? (you said it was camshaft / timing related?)

I only know this as my Mrs looked at a Micra from an independent dealer which was lumpy at tickover and stalled at junctions. The dealer simply said "bah, just needs a service" but I googled when I got home and saw that Micras were bad for it. We stayed away from all Micras as a result.

Nissan Micra (2003 - 2010) - 03 1.0 litre. Malfunction indicator light. | Technical matters | Back Room Forum | Honest John

So much for ZOMFG JAP RELIABILITY.

 

[old.user4556]

Also, from the thread itself:

i have personally fixed a good few of these micras and the problem lies with the timing chain stretching. when the vehicle is put onto a diagnostic machine the fault that comes up is camshaft sensor. this is due to the chain stretching and slightly knocking the timing out of sync. it is a big job i.e engine out to make it easier so the bill will be high. the chains themselves only seem to last 20-30,000 miles depending on how there drove. i have contacted nissan many times as i personally think there should be a recall or some sort of an upgraded chain released. to be honest this is THE only fault i have ever come across with the micra but it is a major and expensive fault to rectify. hope this helps out somehow.

 

[Punishment]

Skoda Octavia or VW Bora = Sorted

 

[GimmlyThe3rd]

Why does a Skoda have a heated rear window?

To keep your hands warm when you push it. ...

 

[Gumbo]

tom sums it all up really.

It's nothing to do with you not taking out the warranty either. You bought if from a dealer, so you have a 3 month warranty. Straightforward and simple.

I'd let them change the sensor, but I'd see if it couldn't be done more quickly, then if the fault reappears you need to give them the chance to fix it or refund you in full.

Be fair, and friendly about it, you're more likely to be met with a decent response.

 

[Job]

Is it running ok? If so just ignore the light half the cars on the road have that light on, computers and cars don't mix

 

[Billargh]

Bet you a bajillion quid it's just a sensor.

 

[Tom]

Is it running ok? If so just ignore the light half the cars on the road have that light on, computers and cars don't mix

No car I've ever owned has had that light on.

 

[GimmlyThe3rd]

I use to get engine warning light on and it would cut out, on a Astra. But was always just a gunked up throttle body and I could never be arsed to check the codes ;p

 

[Job]

No car I've ever owned has had that light on.

Well you'r e in the other half then
he lights been on in my L200 for years ,it's just the exhaust sensor, can't be arsed fixing it.

 

[old.user4556]

Did nobody pay attention to the oh-so-common and documented "stretched timing chain causing cam / timing sensor issues" post that I just made?

 

[Tom]

I did, and wondered why it is necessary to remove the engine? Why not just attach the new chain to the old, and feed it through?

 

[old.user4556]

*shrug*

 

[Raven]

Yeah I did and it kind of agrees with my findings, it's what I am worrying about.

Thanks for the advice all.

 

[Gumbo]

Because they aren't breakable links? Maybe?

The Timing chains I've done in the past have all had to be placed over the cogs and then the cogs are slid over the cam and crankshaft with the chain at the same time.

That's all been on old British engines of one sort or another though, I have never had to do one on a Micra.

 

[Jiggs]

So much for ZOMFG JAP RELIABILITY.

French car innit.

 

[Tom]

Because they aren't breakable links? Maybe?

The Timing chains I've done in the past have all had to be placed over the cogs and then the cogs are slid over the cam and crankshaft with the chain at the same time.

That's all been on old British engines of one sort or another though, I have never had to do one on a Micra.

Crap chain then. My Mercedes, as rusty as it was, had a duplex chain 250,000 miles old and still running strong.

It isn't as though cam chains have a difficult life, the stresses on them aren't exactly high.

 

[old.user4556]

French car innit.

You could argue that since Nissan and Renault share parts and the Micra is a Clio; however the ignorant are quick to jump on the "it's Jap, it's solid" bandwagon.

 

[GimmlyThe3rd]

Crap chain then. My Mercedes, as rusty as it was, had a duplex chain 250,000 miles old and still running strong.

It isn't as though cam chains have a difficult life, the stresses on them aren't exactly high.

Are you seriously comparing the build quality of a merc to the ultimate low budget Nissan??? Why don't you look at the price, you can probably buy 3 micras for a merc .... And it's nothing to do with the stress, read the thread it's a faulty and poorly designed part that should have been recalled.

Raven, if you can't take it back, try and get it fixed asap and put some stress on it to see if the light comes back on. Last thing you wanna do is get stuck with that job to fix after the warranty. And I don't see why you have to take the engine out either, never heard of that before ...

 

[Jiggs]

You could argue that since Nissan and Renault share parts and the Micra is a Clio; however the ignorant are quick to jump on the "it's Jap, it's solid" bandwagon.

It's quite ironic, Nissan used to make solid reliable cars but made no money. Then Renault infected them with AIDS and now they make unreliable cars which sell really well. That might be a bit unfair as I understand they have addressed a lot of the shit Renault engineers introduced.

Honda are in a similar situation to the old Nissan at the moment, total joke how Honda didn't manage to take advantage of Toyota's problems.

Renault also uglified most of the Nissan range.

 

[Ctuchik]

Are you seriously comparing the build quality of a merc to the ultimate low budget Nissan??? Why don't you look at the price, you can probably buy 3 micras for a merc ....

Low budget doesn't automatically have to mean bad quality.

There are plenty of insanely expensive cars out there that breaks down more often then they logically should be able to (TVR being the perfect example)...

Just as there are plenty of low budget cars that seemingly never have any real issues...

So price tags does not equal good build quality like you're second sentence seems to imply.. And even mercs have had it's bad days, they were fast to fix them sure, but still.

 

[GimmlyThe3rd]

Low budget doesn't automatically have to mean bad quality.

There are plenty of insanely expensive cars out there that breaks down more often then they logically should be able to (TVR being the perfect example)...

Just as there are plenty of low budget cars that seemingly never have any real issues...

So price tags does not equal good build quality like you're second sentence seems to imply.. And even mercs have had it's bad days, they were fast to fix them sure, but still.

Yes that's partly correct, but comparing a tvr and a merc is still idiotic. Just like comparing a mercs build quality to a very low budget Jap hatchback.

TVRs are "sports cars" and were built for speed and with tracks / racing in mind. They aren't expected to be driven to Tesco and work everyday and have great build quality. Micras are built to be ... a LOW BUDGET everyday small car. Mercs are a high budget car built for high end built quality and to be a all round high quality comfortable / fast (in some models) car.

Don't hijack the thread anyway, back on topic.