News University spending cuts

[cHodAX]

Wow, looks like they are losing £4.2 billion out the £11 billion they normally recieve. I expected cuts but those numbers are pretty brutal, looks like students are going to get hit pretty hard and those estimates of £30,000 average debts after leaving education seem a bit on the low side now.

Interesting times.

BBC News - Spending Review: Universities 'to face £4.2bn cut'

 

[Chronictank]

and so it begins...

Welcome back conservatives

 

[cHodAX]

and so it begins...

Welcome back conservatives

I am going to be careful this time and wait to see what the fallout is, whilst I agree that the funding needed changes I am not sure that this route is the way to go. What worries most is the funding gap because the law won't change until 2012, surely that leaves Universities high and dry if I am reading it right?

 

[Ch3tan]

That is a large chunk.

Looks like the end of the university for all mantra.

Looks like it cho, if anything it's a move to force uni's to take action in ending pointless fluff courses and drains on resources, and being more careful with their spending to fund real subjects. Passing the buck.

 

[cHodAX]

That is a large chunk.

Looks like the end of the university for all mantra.

Looks like it cho, if anything it's a move to force uni's to take action in ending pointless fluff courses and drains on resources, and being more careful with their spending to fund real subjects. Passing the buck.

Surely that means more job losses and less courses which means less people at University next year then? Shit, it is hard enough to find work as it is without even more people being dumped into the job market. Bad enough that Llyods announced another 4000 I.T. staff are being shed, the I.T. sector is fucked at the moment especially for support staff and engineers.

 

[Raven]

Maybe they will cut back on pointless degrees now? Media studies etc. Too many people go for a laugh and some stupid degree that is of no use to anyone in the real world.

 

[Ch3tan]

Maybe they will cut back on pointless degrees now? Media studies etc. Too many people go for a laugh and some stupid degree that is of no use to anyone in the real world.

Yes, from previous posts, I know cho agree's with that view, however I think he's a bit worried about just how deep and quick these cuts are. It really will force uni's to get new funding sharpish, or shed a lot of jobs. Considering that they can't increase the uni fee's till 2012, it's really going to hit them hard.

 

[cHodAX]

Maybe they will cut back on pointless degrees now? Media studies etc. Too many people go for a laugh and some stupid degree that is of no use to anyone in the real world.

To be honest though the government could just refuse to fund those useless degress and only finance core studies via some kind scholarship system. Fund the important areas like science, technology and maths etc. The areas that generate economic growth. All the fluff courses should have to be 100% self funded via loans.

 

[cHodAX]

Yes, from previous posts, I know cho agree's with that view, however I think he's a bit worried about just how deep and quick these cuts are. It really will force uni's to get new funding sharpish, or shed a lot of jobs. Considering that they can't increase the uni fee's till 2012, it's really going to hit them hard.

Nail on the head really, I don't want to see more job losses because the Universities lack the funds to keep going until 2012 when the law changes. As the article said, a number of Universities may well go bankrupt in the interim and no one wants to see that.

 

[Ch3tan]

Those shit degree's exist because the uni's make massive amounts of money from them. They get their money from the government, plus the fee's from the students.

I doubt any uni's will go bankrupt cho, I think they'll just have to look to the private sector for funding. We'll probably end up half way towards the american model -a s long as it's only half way then that is fine. Uni for those that can afford it, and subsidised for those that can achieve but cannot afford it. Let the uni's make money off the rich and stupid, without the state contributing, and let the poor and clever be educated.

 

[cHodAX]

Werent a number of Uni's already heavily in debt because of the Icelandic banking collapse? They still have not been paid out iirc.

 

[- English -]

I have only done 2 of my 3 years for my degree and im keeping a close eye on things. I think im -14k in debt after those 2 years. Especially after moving to Denmark where i found out I can study at Uni for free. Thinking of transfering my degree over to here, if possible and if it doesnt affect the qualification.

 

[Lamp]

Maybe they will cut back on pointless degrees now? Media studies etc. Too many people go for a laugh and some stupid degree that is of no use to anyone in the real world.

+1

Well said

A degree for many people is a formality, a rights of passage, a 3 or 4 year excuse to avoid having to worry about the real world.

What happened to getting a proper trade. Apprenticeships. The employer pays, the person comes out with a real trade, work is pretty much guaranteed, & there's no crippling debt after. The number of people you hear about who can't get a job after leaving uni....yes we've had an economic meltdown, but still plenty of idle lazy loafers outthere living with Mum & Dad with a BA in Cow Testicles who'd sooner sit around playing with their ipad getting drunk then pulling their finger out & look for a different sphere of employment

 

[FuzzyLogic]

Well, bugger, I'm not expecting to have a job by the end of this.


Feck

 

[Chronictank]

What happened to getting a proper trade. Apprenticeships. The employer pays, the person comes out with a real trade, work is pretty much guaranteed, & there's no crippling debt after.

Tories killed off a significant number the last time around, and labour didn't help bring them back afterwards with Tony's everyone MUST go to uni mantra.

It is not the kids fault they were forced down a path, told by literally every careers officer, teacher and advisor they have to go to uni.
Even if they aren't suited to it.. thus the emergence of fluff degree's to pander to those who cant hack it in a 'proper' course

 

[Talivar]

What are we classing as uselss degress tho?

 

[Chronictank]

What are we classing as uselss degress tho?

you actually make a good point

how would you clasify a 'useless' degree?, after all you cant base it on employment
I remember reading that a Physics masters was one of the qualifications least likely to get you a job for example, is that a real degree?

Does art, drama, music, any language count as a real degree?


Universities of any reputation don't just make them up unless there is a demand for them

 

[Ch3tan]

media studies.

 

[Chronictank]

media studies.

Public relations, media planner (ad campaign impact analysis and so on), media specialist (technology based media communication), television, film, video production, advertising, magazine, journalist etc..

 

[Talivar]

I chose to do a Rehabilitation Degree in the end (occupational/physiotherapy/drugs rehab/mental rehab ect ect) and now half feel its going to be a waste because the goverment deided to invent the assisant practioners degree. So its not always the students fault a degree turns out to be bad

 

[Ch3tan]

Public relations, media planner (ad campaign impact analysis and so on), media specialist (technology based media communication), television, film, video production, advertising, magazine, journalist etc..

None of which require this pointless degree (I know people that have done it, it's a pile of steaming shit). There's only ever been one way into TV and that's from the bottom up.

 

[ECA]

I'm a bit conflicted on this, higher education standards let us compete economically, and those with degrees on average make more money over a lifetime so it pays for itself via future revenues.

That said, we need more plumbers, electricians, etc etc and certainly if people think "fuck, so now i'm going to be £20-30k in debt if I waste my time dicking around and get a 2:2 in philosophy...hmmmm".

 

[Talivar]

One difference over time i have noticed tho is how a Degree to many is classed as not so good unless you get a 1st or Distinction.

 

[Ch3tan]

Over time? It's always been the case. It's the same with any certification, the higher the grade the better.

 

[cHodAX]

Public relations, media planner (ad campaign impact analysis and so on), media specialist (technology based media communication), television, film, video production, advertising, magazine, journalist etc..

Nail on head. We are swimming in people with these degrees, so much so that half of them end up on supermarket graduate programs and become supermarket managers. We are paying for degrees that never actually get used for their intended purposes, you do not need a degree to work or run a supermarket, coffee shop or any retail outlet.

 

[Talivar]

No i dont mean just regarded as better, i mean a 2.1 or 2.2 ect are now almost classed as a fail

 

[Ch3tan]

Yes, that's the result of a more competitive job market, although I've never seen a perception that anything less than a 2:1 is good.

 

[Lamp]

those with degrees on average make more money over a lifetime

One of my m8s used to be a hot water engineer. No qualifications, left school at 16 with nothing, learnt a trade, bit of a wild child you might say....anyway, he decided to better himself about 8 years ago & to look for work in the City. He's now earning 60K+ at Deutsche Bank working as a supervisor in their back office. Not bad for someone who started off fixing industrial boilers on dogshit money. Degree my arse. As someone who actually employs people at the bank I work in, I would take someone with relevant experience over any fresh 22 year old with a double 1st from Oxford in Social Care & Media Studies.

 

[cHodAX]

I chose to do a Rehabilitation Degree in the end (occupational/physiotherapy/drugs rehab/mental rehab ect ect) and now half feel its going to be a waste because the goverment deided to invent the assisant practioners degree. So its not always the students fault a degree turns out to be bad

That is a useful degree though if you take it seriously and follow through on it. Those are skills that are needed, especially physiotherapy.

The truth is that a few degrees should not be offered but most of the fluffy ones like media studies should either be 100% self funded or heavily restricted on place numbers. We do not need 100,000's of people with degrees that have no meaningful use because the person who completes the course never finds a job in that field and were never going to.

It is not the job of the state to give people an education they do not need, however it should fund courses that advance the species, education, science and culture but by far the most important is economic growth. Media studies rarely falls into any of those categories. Socialogy and it's related courses is another one that really needs looking at, I know three people qualified at degree level who have studied that or a variant and not one of them has gone on to do anything in that field. One works in a call centre, another as a teaching assistant and the last one started her own greasy spoon cafe after 3 years without a meaningful job offer. Those three alone is at least £100,000 of public money wasted.

 

[Talivar]

Its catch 22 now adays tho because to get the job and gain the relevent experience a degree is needed