United States Corrupt Twattery

[Scouse]

Un fucking believable.

Actually, no.

I said it lacks class?

I think a fair chunk of our problem (not all, but a fair chunk) - is that he's just so fucking brash.

It's culturally really unusual in blighty, but it's not that strange in the US.

Remember hypernormalisation? Politics as performance...

Edit: btw @Deebs - plenty of politicians sang ding dong the witch in private. I'd almost prefer it if it was in the open.

 

[Embattle]

He could of just said nothing.

 

[BloodOmen]

Trump is living proof that if you polish a turd its still a fucking turd.

 

[Scouse]

He could of just said nothing.

Agree. But he was never going to.

Remember Rob Reiner? Politics as performance. It's kind of the point.

 

[Embattle]

He didn't say anything when Dick Cheney died.

 

[caLLous]

I don't think this is political (Mueller was a Republican), performative or otherwise - these people have, in his mind, personally wronged him, and he's openly celebrating their deaths.

MAGA absolutely lost their shit when people dared point out some of Charlie Kirk's own words, or weren't mourning hard enough, or whatever, after his death. And then they pissed themselves laughing when Pelosi's octogenarian husband was attacked with a hammer. That's political, this is just Trump being a narcissistic piece of shit.

 

[Raven]

Agree. But he was never going to.

Remember Rob Reiner? Politics as performance. It's kind of the point.

He is a lying piece of shit, who will use absolutely anything to distract from the Epstein files. From throwing mud at (previous) allies, to blowing up, or being complicit, in blowing up, men, women and children. Mostly lying, and (potentially) having shit on just about every murky little wrong'un in the room.

 

[Gwadien]

Lets not forget he also served in Vietnam and got medals...

 

[BloodOmen]

 

[Scouse]

I don't think this is political (Mueller was a Republican), performative or otherwise - these people have, in his mind, personally wronged him, and he's openly celebrating their deaths.

I don't disagree @caLLous.

Are you reading what I'm writing and thinking "scouse is disagreeing and being a cunt again"? (@Gwadien ?) I think he's absolutely celebrating the death of someone he feels has wronged him. It's not something I'd do in his position. But I do think there's absolutely a political aim in doing it so publically - as well as personal catharsis.

MAGA absolutely lost their shit when people dared point out some of Charlie Kirk's own words, or weren't mourning hard enough, or whatever, after his death.

Yes. The Charlie Kirk thing did occur to me too - but then it was different because it was murder and all sides have to come out against murder. There's a qualitiative difference here.

 

[Scouse]

Lets not forget he also served in Vietnam and got medals...

This I have problems with - if you can dodge a draft you bloody well should IMO.

Robert Meuller obviously was either not rich enough (i.e. didn't come from a Trump-style family) to dodge the draft or, worse, fucking volunteered.

But you know me - in most situations I think if you volunteer to pick up a gun and go shoot people who you've never met.... Coward doesn't come into it for me - you're either poor, or an idiot.

 

[Gwadien]

This I have problems with - if you can dodge a draft you bloody well should IMO.

Robert Meuller obviously was either not rich enough (i.e. didn't come from a Trump-style family) to dodge the draft or, worse, fucking volunteered.

But you know me - in most situations I think if you volunteer to pick up a gun and go shoot people who you've never met.... Coward doesn't come into it for me - you're either poor, or an idiot.

Doesn't matter what I think, what matters is that it clearly irks Trump that its a stain on how he perceives himself.

As for your other point, the whole point of politics is putting your personal beliefs aside and needing to compromise.

Lets not forget that Mueller wasn't a political figure, he was essentially a civil service - the concept that he 'went after Trump' is bollocks. He was doing his job and had a life of service to his country which I personally couldn't give a flying fuck about, but it was important to him, Trump and I'd imagine the majority of Americans.

 

[Scouse]

As for your other point, the whole point of politics is putting your personal beliefs aside and needing to compromise.

Take a step back and remember what you already know:

The whole point of politics isn't putting personal beliefs aside and compromising - it's winning and doing as much as you can of what you want to do.

You operate inside a system that introduces checks and balances - one of which is getting you kicked out after a number of terms if the people aren't happy with what you're doing.

Look at Labour. Starmer is even more out than BoJo was - he's measureably the most hated prime minister we've ever had. And he's doing all sorts of shit that was never in his manifesto because if he'd have had it in there he'd never have won. But he did win - on fuck all of a vote - and he's doing what he wants - entrenching a left-leaning governance structure that would take a long time to reverse.

Trump won't be there forever.

 

[Gwadien]

Take a step back and remember what you already know:

The whole point of politics isn't putting personal beliefs aside and compromising - it's winning and doing as much as you can of what you want to do.

You operate inside a system that introduces checks and balances - one of which is getting you kicked out after a number of terms if the people aren't happy with what you're doing.

Look at Labour. Starmer is even more out than BoJo was - he's measureably the most hated prime minister we've ever had. And he's doing all sorts of shit that was never in his manifesto because if he'd have had it in there he'd never have won. But he did win - on fuck all of a vote - and he's doing what he wants - entrenching a left-leaning governance structure that would take a long time to reverse.

Trump won't be there forever.

No, you've adopted the Trump mantra, democracy is about compromise and negotiation.

Trump doesn't like democracy, naturally.

 

[Scouse]

No, you've adopted the Trump mantra, democracy is about compromise and negotiation.

You've said this before. I'm just regurgitating back to you the stuff you've said during our discussions on manifestos.

Complaints about the Tories not putting shit in their manifestos, manifestos being a load of shit. This time Labour needed to do what it had to win - and elections are about winning. You can't change anything unless you're in power so they're all doing what they can to get in power?

If they get in power with a massive majority then they do what they fucking like, basically - and they all prove that, repeatedly, through their actions. Who are they going to "negotiate" with when they have a majority? They set the rules, they make the laws? Are they going to negotiate with a tiny opposition party or are they going to pass the laws, and hope they don't get repealed when they get kicked out?

It seems that you're going to argue the minutiae of even stuff we've previously kind of agreed on - even when it's obviously what's happening

 

[Embattle]

Trump is being the scumbag he has always been.

 

[Gwadien]

You've said this before. I'm just regurgitating back to you the stuff you've said during our discussions on manifestos.

Complaints about the Tories not putting shit in their manifestos, manifestos being a load of shit. This time Labour needed to do what it had to win - and elections are about winning. You can't change anything unless you're in power so they're all doing what they can to get in power?

If they get in power with a massive majority then they do what they fucking like, basically - and they all prove that, repeatedly, through their actions. Who are they going to "negotiate" with when they have a majority? They set the rules, they make the laws? Are they going to negotiate with a tiny opposition party or are they going to pass the laws, and hope they don't get repealed when they get kicked out?

It seems that you're going to argue the minutiae of even stuff we've previously kind of agreed on - even when it's obviously what's happening

Their own party, hence why it's no longer the GOP, it's the MAGA party.

 

[Scouse]

Their own party, hence why it's no longer the GOP, it's the MAGA party.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here? Honestly, I don't. Please explain.


In the context of our discussion whether it's the GoP, or MAGA- it's actually irrelevant. Like I said:

You operate inside a system that introduces checks and balances - one of which is getting you kicked out after a number of terms if the people aren't happy with what you're doing.

It could be the "white power, rape women, kill children" party - the check and balance gets shot of them at the next election if the people realise they don't like those policies or the people implementing them.

 

[Scouse]

Trump is being the scumbag he has always been.

Hard agree.

 

[caLLous]

I'm not sure what you're getting at here? Honestly, I don't. Please explain.


In the context of our discussion whether it's the GoP, or MAGA- it's actually irrelevant. Like I said:



It could be the "white power, rape women, kill children" party - the check and balance gets shot of them at the next election if the people realise they don't like those policies or the people implementing them.

Yeah let's see how the midterms go before crowing about checks and balances.

 

[Scouse]

Yeah let's see how the midterms go before crowing about checks and balances.

They'll go how they go, right? That's the check and balance.

Or are you anti-democratic? Is the only "valid" result a Dem's clean-sweep?


Lets face it, the Dems are going to do very well. But you've got loads more Trump...

 

[caLLous]

I'm not talking about the results; I'm talking about the bullshit the GOP are already pulling to sow doubt about the integrity of the elections and make it harder for 10s of millions of eligible voters to vote.

When ICE get deployed to stand outside Democrat-leaning voting places to scare away the latinos, that's checks and balances in action, right?

 

[Scouse]

I'm talking about the bullshit the GOP are already pulling

Again, I'm not disagreeing.

However, these two have been playing this game for a long time:

Biggest problem with gerrymandering — Harvard Gazette

Harvard researchers found tactic, widely used in 2020, made little difference in partisan numbers but yielded safe seats, less-responsive representatives.

news.harvard.edu

It's been escalating and escalating, from both sides. And I agree there's no doubt that the GOP is going to fight really dirty this time.

But if one side has been punching low, it's hard to cry foul when the other side kicks them in the balls.

So lets talk what'll make an actual difference. The dems getting an average swing back to them at the next GE.

When ruling parties have flipped in the last 50 years there's been enough of a flip in the popular vote that would give the dems a very healthy majority.

Trump won 77 million votes last time. Harris 75 million.

If the dems can't get up enough of a head of steam to overturn a 2 million popular vote deficit, no matter the shithousery, then they don't deserve it IMO.

 

[SilverHood]

If the dems can't get up enough of a head of steam to overturn a 2 million popular vote deficit, no matter the shithousery, then they don't deserve it IMO.

One of the most frustrating things here is that people who are sad, angry or deeply impacted by Trump's policies will likely still vote republican next election. Some have said they might not vote next time. They're so brainwashed into hating the Democrats that it wont even cross their mind to vote for them. Finally, I think the Dems have realized this, and why I think a reckoning is coming. Most of red rural America is a net receiver of federal and or state funds, and to get money back that Trump and his cronies cut, is going to involve eating some serious humble pie on behalf of both the electorate and their officials.

 

[BloodOmen]

 

[Scouse]

They're so brainwashed into hating the Democrats that it wont even cross their mind to vote for them

Why is that, eh?

Comrade Scouse gets accused of the same on here - that I must be mind-captured by social media (that I don't use, at all), or the news feeds I read (almost exclusively the Guardian - of which I'm in the global top 1% of daily readers apparently (!)) are pushing my tiny leftist little mind to the far right.

Why can't people get that the Democrats offered nothing to huge swathes of the population other than managed economic decline - especially for the poorest half - condescending (and incorrect) judgement when they voice their concerns and the import from Europe of the constant criticism mechanisms that've come along with cultural marxism that can make day to day life feel intolerable.

The problem with the current left, and their supporters, is they can't even see (and when pointed out refuse to accept) their part in causing the current American shitshow / Brexit / whatever...

Instead republicans, like Brexit voters, or the anti-immigration lobby over here are all brainwashed or dumb.

Refusal to grapple with their problems, or even acknowledge that they're real, is why the world is turning to utter arseholes like Trump.