United States Corrupt Twattery

Scouse

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Someone make Scouse another tin foil hat, he appears to of eaten the first one.
I fail to see how a mass grave, where you can actually go and count the bodies of the children, at the hands of a "civilised" government counts as hattery, never mind of a thin metal kind.

Genrally conspiracy accusations are levied at people who are spreading rumours about shit that there's no proof about / has never happened.

You can't claim tin foil hat for shit that has actually happened.

From about 1863 to 1998, more than 150,000 indigenous children were taken from their families and placed in these schools.
The children were often not allowed to speak their language or to practise their culture, and many were mistreated and abused.
1998. Children forcibly taken from their families. Hundreds of whom ended up in mass graves. In Canada.

Explain @Embattle. Explain why this is tinfoil hattery. I know you have a very loose connection with reality, but what does it take for you to see the world as it really is?
 

Scouse

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Yes @Embattle. That's not an argument.

History is replete with examples. It would be idiotic of me to supply them when you yourself are well aware of them.
 

Ormorof

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Not many other organizations that kidnapped 150,000 kids could just say "whoops sorry, lets move on..."
 

Raven

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I think its pretty much in sins of the father territory here. I've never really got countries apologising for historical abuses, there are few countries with clean hands.

All they/we can do is ensure that nothing like it happens again, apologising won't stop that, continued action will.
 

DaGaffer

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It’s very easy to blame government and absolve oneself of responsibility for terrible things, but in democracies shit like what happened in Canada requires a complicit population, even if only to turn a blind eye. This is just like the Magdalen Laundries in Ireland; the nuns and priests may have been the abusers, and the authorities accomplices, but the people were the enablers. They fed the machine.

As for all that second amendment shit, @Scouse is wrong and has always been wrong, there’s no overthrow the government agenda in it and never has been; as with all things American it was about having an army without having to raise taxes to pay for it. I could get into a long history lesson about gun ownership, the NRA and regulatory capture by lobbyists but I can’t be arsed.
 

Ormorof

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I think its pretty much in sins of the father territory here. I've never really got countries apologising for historical abuses, there are few countries with clean hands.

All they/we can do is ensure that nothing like it happens again, apologising won't stop that, continued action will.
1998 is hardly a historical abuse, 23 years ago, many of the people involved still likely to be kicking about, possibly involved in Govt

Holding people, and organizations, accountable is best way to avoid it happening again, in Ireland the insanity of a scandal involving Catholic church nuns and babies dumped in a septic tank unfolding at same time as control of a children's hospital being handed over to the same group is only happening because of that attitude "ah it was a long time ago wouldn't happen now"

Do we want to wait and find out if they have changed?
 

Scouse

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It’s very easy to blame government and absolve oneself of responsibility for terrible things, but in democracies shit like what happened in Canada requires a complicit population, even if only to turn a blind eye. This is just like the Magdalen Laundries in Ireland; the nuns and priests may have been the abusers, and the authorities accomplices, but the people were the enablers. They fed the machine.
Regardless of the area of disagreement - this is true. And it's a big part of the reason why government is so dangerous. You can posit all sorts of outlandish shit as a government with a face-value "reasonable" justification and the people let it slide.

Thing is about face value justifications is that they're generally too simplistic. The public don't deal with the deep complexities very well.
 

DaGaffer

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Regardless of the area of disagreement - this is true. And it's a big part of the reason why government is so dangerous. You can posit all sorts of outlandish shit as a government with a face-value "reasonable" justification and the people let it slide.

Thing is about face value justifications is that they're generally too simplistic. The public don't deal with the deep complexities very well.
Just been reading up about the Residential Schools system; as horrific as you'd expect but it completely resonates with what went on in Ireland, Australia, and yes, the UK, and arguably still goes on today; kids being taken away from their parents "for their own good". In Canada and Australia its racial, in the UK it was a class thing, but in reality its always "our betters" deciding we needed civilising,

Its one of the things that depresses me about modern racial politics, BLM and all that; attacking people because of their race is a side effect; its always really been about haves and have-nots.
 

Scouse

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its always really been about haves and have-nots.
Completely. But it's generally the one place the public seems really reticent to go.

They get het up on all sorts of subjects but the one place where action would result in streetwide improvements for all is the one place people don't go.

It's like you have to have something to hang your anger and rage on before you are motivated to action - be it racism, feminism etc. But you say "all these things can be improved by fixing this" and you leave people cold...
 

Raven

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That's a shame, I imagine it was doing really well.
 

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