UKIP's immigration policy

[BloodOmen]

I see it's been leaked some what. It'll be based on Australia's policy for immigration. Doesn't sound unreasonable despite UKIP being a bunch of bellends, more a case of can they enforce it.

http://www.lbc.co.uk/farage-reveals-ukips-immigration-policy-93417

"The Aussies have a point system and they say to come to Australia you must be under 45 years of age, you must have a skill or a trade that will bring a benefit to our country.

"They say if you have a life threatening disease, I'm sorry but we can't accommodate you. They say if you have a serious criminal record we won’t have you, which if you think about it is quite funny really isn’t it, given their background.

"What they also say is we don’t care whether you’re black or white or yellow or what your religion is but if you come to our country and you come here to take citizenship you become part of us and you become part of our Australian dream, namely the integrationist message. That is exactly what we should be doing.

"We no longer choose the numbers of people that come to Britain or the quality of people that come to Britain."

 

[Gwadien]

So it'll basically encourage more workers to come and send money home?

 

[BloodOmen]

So it'll basically encourage more workers to come and send money home?

I assume you're on about Polish workers getting benefits for their families back home? if thats the case

1. They don't send money home, its paid to the families via the government
2. David Cameron is currently trying to get this stopped as its wrong, no one else does it - why should we?
3. Assuming 2 comes to light it won't attract those types at all

 

[Gwadien]

I assume you're on about Polish workers getting benefits for their families back home? if thats the case

1. They don't send money home, its paid to the families via the government
2. David Cameron is currently trying to get this stopped as its wrong, no one else does it - why should we?
3. Assuming 2 comes to light it won't attract those types at all

Nah, I'm thinking further afield, think about like African and Indian families that have a greater emphasis on their extended families, they will be more likely to stay and live here, but send a majority of their wages back home, but if you let the extended family live here, and that money went back into the UK...

 

[Job]

My mother worked in the tax inquiry counter for years, she was utterly amazed to see Muslims and Africans having money sent home to multiple wives and all the person had to do was say it was their wife, quite often there was no proof the person even existed.
That is no BNP inspired bullshit myth..it is the truth, still goes on today under the umbrella of scared shitless of appearing to persecute minorities.

 

[BloodOmen]

Ah, ok, thought you were having a rant about the above as for the other point, not much they can do about that really, people are free to do as they please with their money, they can't really tell people how to spend the money they earn.

 

[Gwadien]

My mother worked in the tax inquiry counter for years, she was utterly amazed to see Muslims and Africans having money sent home to multiple wives and all the person had to do was say it was their wife, quite often there was no proof the person even existed.
That is no BNP inspired bullshit myth..it is the truth, still goes on today under the umbrella of scared shitless of appearing to persecute minorities.

White people dodge tax and stuff as well you know?

I was sort of having a rant yeah, as Job says, they'll find ways of getting money home, but if you encourage their families to move here too, I think it'll benefit the economy, not hinder it.

That depends if you're more bothered about the financial and long-term side of it, rather than the ethnic diversity side of it, I'd much rather sacrifice a generation or two of families who move here and they stick to their own little communities in the UK, but after time they'll integrate into a wider community, rather than having repeated generations of a bloke coming over, and sending money home.

 

[Job]

The seaside town of Southport by us, where I work daily is choc full of young Polish, Romanians and Hungarians, packs of them loudly talking in their native language pushing prams down the street and hanging on street corners, getting involved in major arguments that include slapping each other, on the other hand there are far more English single parent benefit families, though they tend to be a lot more discreet.
It's just the pull of a seaside town, Blackpool has the same problem, it attracts doleites for the Beach and chavvy nightlife and the circle of demise continues, so now Blackpool has one of the worst drug, crime and benefit statistics in the country and it almost entirely stems from benefit tourism.
Got talking to this 65 year old guy in a cafe and he was saying he has a different young Polish girl every weekend, the town is bursting with them, he was saying he has learnt so much about Poland talking to them afterwards.

 

[Gwadien]

The seaside town of Southport by us, where I work daily is choc full of young Polish, Romanians and Hungarians, packs of them loudly talking in their native language pushing prams down the street and hanging on street corners, getting involved in major arguments that include slapping each other, on the other hand there are far more English single parent benefit families, though they tend to be a lot more discreet.
It's just the pull of a seaside town, Blackpool has the same problem, it attracts doleites for the Beach and chavvy nightlife and the circle of demise continues, so now Blackpool has one of the worst drug, crime and benefit statistics in the country and it almost entirely stems from benefit tourism.

If there's young Polish, Romanians and Hungarians out, surely that's evidence of a lack of benefit tourism?

I was explaining this to someone the other day who moaned about the number of foreigners in Leicester, and they were mostly groups of women, I was like, hang on, they're women for a start, they don't usually work their culture, and the bloke is probably in a factory working for 12 hours for £3 a hour, you don't see the model citizens because they're usually in work, or looking after their families at home.

If I went around a city centre (Leicester for instance) in the middle of the day and I painted a picture for you of every race/nationality for you, I'd say that eastern Europeans are fat, wear track suits and shout loudly in their own language, indians are all chavs who think they're gangsters, white people are rammed into fast food chains spending their dole money, whilst black people are permanently drunk.

Which just isn't true, I don't see an issue with immigration myself, even though I live in an immigration hot spot, sure there's some issues, but it's so much easier to blame the foreign people than actually look into the causes of the issues and dealing with them, and perhaps looking at the overshadowing problems that makes immigration look like a joke, such as wealth distribution?

 

[DaGaffer]

UKIP's immigration policy only works if they leave the EU completely, which is a stated aim, but I'm not sure what that means for all the EU citizens already here (or indeed those of us who are British citizens in other EU countries) and interestingly, kicking out EU citizens probably wouldn't have any impact on the population anyway. Assuming an exit from the EU, a points-based system isn't unreasonable, but its bad news for any young Brits who fancy broadening their horizons for a few years.

NB. The Aussie immigration rules are easily circumvented by one thing; money. Bring in A$250K to "start a business" and they'll roll out the red carpet.

 

[Job]

Its merely xenophobia because social interaction is a very complicated thing that builds up over decades..understanding peoples past..their class and the subtle behaviours that give you a clue of their moods and intentions...when you cart in too many people too quickly with vastly different culture or social nicities you cause unease because people are unsure where they stand..its not rocket science..but it would seem the powers that be dont give a fuk about that..its just lump it or you are racist..that sort of attitude leans people right wing..no discussion..damning of their fears as bigotry..most people are smiling through gritted teeth and the backlash brews in every dining room across all the classes.

 

[Job]

Did anyone see that utterly patronising shite..gain or drain?
What a pile of cringing shit in which a handfull of nice but dims have their xenophobia cured by meeting nice immigrants ..the best bit is when the older couple visit a Mosque and came out declaring there was nothing sinister in there and they were surprised how calm it was...I honestly think they were expecting Jihadists firing machine guns in the air.
We need an open debate on tv..that was an insult to our intelligence.

 

[Marc]

So it'll basically encourage more workers to come and send money home?

And what is wrong with this? If someone comes to our country, works and pays their taxes its up to them what they do with their disposable income. If they dont want to spend their money for the sake of spending to put it back in to the UK economy I have no problem with this.

 

[Raven]

Its not like its something new. People have always moved to where the money is and sent it back to their families.

 

[Chilly]

NB. The Aussie immigration rules are easily circumvented by one thing; money. Bring in A$250K to "start a business" and they'll roll out the red carpet.

As are ours, except you need more than a measly quarter of a million. Standard tactic for rich gay Russians at the moment. And it's a perfect system. Why the hell wouldn't you want loads of rich people turning up and dumping money into the local economy via coke dealers and fancy restaurants?

 

[Gwadien]

And what is wrong with this? If someone comes to our country, works and pays their taxes its up to them what they do with their disposable income. If they dont want to spend their money for the sake of spending to put it back in to the UK economy I have no problem with this.

Because it makes all sorts of problems from a employers prospective, you know your employee is there for the money and may regularly have long term holidays to see their family and they're most likely there on a temporary basis, so why invest in them.

I'd rather see a system where if you work, pay your taxes then you can live here with your family, not force them to send money home, that's using people and its abuse

 

[Raven]

Its not just immediate family though it is extended family. In the west we have really fragmented families where in less developed countries they often have several generations living together. 1 young person might move to the UK to earn money to send back to the extended family back home for a year or two then go back and someone else come over.

Still nothing wrong with it, if they want the work that our lazy people don't then all power to them. Just a shame they don't introduce an adopt a lazy Brit campaign.

 

[DaGaffer]

Because it makes all sorts of problems from a employers prospective, you know your employee is there for the money and may regularly have long term holidays to see their family and they're most likely there on a temporary basis, so why invest in them.

I'd rather see a system where if you work, pay your taxes then you can live here with your family, not force them to send money home, that's using people and its abuse

Bless your heart. This is nirvana for lots of companies. Modern companies invest in their employees at the minimum level they can get away with; its not about "investing" in the employee, its about making sure they don't do anything stupid and offer a level of service that doesn't actually make the customer stab them in face, nothing more. At management level you still get some investment in development, but even then companies don't want long-term employees hanging about building up a pension that might actually be worth something one day. Employers don't want long-term employees, full stop.

 

[Raven]

That depends entirely on the size and industry of the company. My company promotes long term employment, simply because the experience and knowledge is not something that can be learnt elsewhere. We actually have a bit of a critical problem in one department were we are now in the position where we only have 1 person who has been here more than a year and it is physically costing us money.

Every time I say I am leaving they throw a pay rise at me, salary has gone up nearly 15k in 5 years. I could have probably got it up by as much or not more moving about but its convenient here.

 

[Tom]

I'm confused as to the difference between sending cash to relatives, and sending cash to foreign Chinese companies via the purchase of high value items.

 

[Ormorof]

Because dey tukk our juuurbs

Sorry had to be said, limiting unskilled immigrants is all nice and well but the truth is they wouldnt be moving to the UK if there were no opportunities, that and companies like the idea of a foreigner who can be used and abused at half the price without anyone caring (they cant vote in general elections so MPs dont give a shit) desperate disposable people are more attractive to employers of unskilled workers than educated rich kids who will leave at first opportunity

 

[DaGaffer]

That depends entirely on the size and industry of the company. My company promotes long term employment, simply because the experience and knowledge is not something that can be learnt elsewhere. We actually have a bit of a critical problem in one department were we are now in the position where we only have 1 person who has been here more than a year and it is physically costing us money.

Every time I say I am leaving they throw a pay rise at me, salary has gone up nearly 15k in 5 years. I could have probably got it up by as much or not more moving about but its convenient here.

There are obviously going to be exceptions, but in the UK service economy what I'm describing is a majority view. And its not just a unskilled worker thing anymore.

 

[Job]

I'm not soft enough to know that all great countries are built on immigration..but the effects are very real to the working class man and it just amazes me to see people who are spending 50 to 100 grand on a project will employ almost entirely polish- hungarian etc to save 30 quid a day for each man..the immigrant is happy for this and he goes back to his dingy house with 10 others and eats food he has brought from home ..so the workers here are being undercut by en masse trying to earn a living wage so the well off can keep upgrading the range rover every year.
I know thats economics..but its also dog eat dog and it simply forces many on to benefits...loads of guys around here have packed it in..gone bankrupt and on the dole because there is no work..Im ok so far because very few immigrants can legally work on gas..but many do it illegally because it saves someone 50 quid.

 

[Raven]

Bullshit... there is stacks of work for a decent plumber. Even if there isn't then you can go and earn double in Australia, they are desperate for tradesman. My cousin went out there after leaving the army and now has so much work on he has had to employ others.

 

[DaGaffer]

I'm not soft enough to know that all great countries are built on immigration..but the effects are very real to the working class man and it just amazes me to see people who are spending 50 to 100 grand on a project will employ almost entirely polish- hungarian etc to save 30 quid a day for each man..the immigrant is happy for this and he goes back to his dingy house with 10 others and eats food he has brought from home ..so the workers here are being undercut by en masse trying to earn a living wage so the well off can keep upgrading the range rover every year.
I know thats economics..but its also dog eat dog and it simply forces many on to benefits...loads of guys around here have packed it in..gone bankrupt and on the dole because there is no work..Im ok so far because very few immigrants can legally work on gas..but many do it illegally because it saves someone 50 quid.

Price you pay if you routinely rip people off for decades. British tradesmen, builders, plumbers etc. built up a reputation for shoddy work and high prices (the former was sometimes true, the latter was pretty much always true). So if someone comes over on an EasyJet flight and does a better job for half the money, its not surprising people bit their hands off. And its not just a case of "the well off" getting richer; the public sector turned to foreign labour as well, and most of the council properties in the country are now maintained by foreign labour because they're cheaper AND more reliable than the Brits.

What will happen is what happened 40 years ago with the Irish; the ones who put down roots in the UK will be the next generation of rip-off merchants and will complain about the next lot of "foreigners" taking their livelihood.

 

[Marc]

Because it makes all sorts of problems from a employers prospective, you know your employee is there for the money and may regularly have long term holidays to see their family and they're most likely there on a temporary basis, so why invest in them.

I'd rather see a system where if you work, pay your taxes then you can live here with your family, not force them to send money home, that's using people and its abuse

This doesnt make any sense at all. People shouldnt come and work because they will cause problems for their employers by having long term holidays???

 

[Job]

Of course you.can bring in foreign workers who appreciate the job more and work harder for less pay but the person he replaces isnt going anywhere and more than likely ends up on some kind of benefit..he cant take a pay cut because he couldnt afford to live .

 

[Raven]

The foreigners manage...and have enough left to send some home. If people weren't obsessed with big tellies and take aways they would manage too.

 

[Scouse]

The foreigners manage...and have enough left to send some home. If people weren't obsessed with big tellies and take aways they would manage too.

Rubbish. Big tellys and takeaways are cheap.

People who want to live long-term in this country, buy an average house (£260,000) and not simply live in a one bedroom hovel for a couple of years before going back to another country taking advantage of a massive exchange rate difference are properly fucked over.

 

[Job]

Actually I routinely go around fixing gas installations done by polish/hungarian 'plumbers'..no qualifications so they just treat it the same as plumbing...woefully undersized pipes..no clips..never check for leaks beyond sniffing for gas...silicone used to seal joints..flues right next to windows..blowoff pipes left pointing into the street..I could go on but it just reflects the reduced standards in their country.