Tuition fees

[Jeros]

I’m currently doing an essay for collage on the whether or not i agree with the current University Tuition fees system and i was wondering what all your views on the subject are? Should education be free? Should those than can afford pay? or should we all pay?

Just after some different views

 

[Chronictank]

Education should always be free,
traditionally the top % of students would go uni and the rest would either go into appretaships, find a job or do a vocational qualification, along came Maggy Thatcher and stopped government funded apprentaships, then the knockout blow came from Mr Blair when the Labour party in 99 i think it was, decided that all students should go university even if they are doomed to underperform because of it (some people like prefer to do something practically, hence under-achieve at exams even if they know the theory, these were the ones who traditionally did apprentaships).
Now without government funding there is little or no reason for employers to take on aprentice's, simply because its more cost effective to take on someone straight out of uni (whereas before the training was partly funded by the government).

Now we have a skills gap which was previously filled by those who didnt go to university, and there we have the current education system in the uk. where kids are trained and moulded into passing tests but with no clue on how to do the job they are working towards in the real world.

So to answer your question, yes uni fees are justified simply because of the culture today where everyone is expected to go to uni (subsequently making degrees pretty worthless as everyone has one), if the tax payer was to foot the bill they simply couldnt afford it.
The justification is that you do a degree to earn more money, so when you get employed on that higher salary (compared to someone who didnt do a degree) the cost will cancel out

 

[- English -]

Well it works from both sides:

- The majority of people go uni nowadays so its seen as a disadvantage if you do not have a degree.
- Most the student whos pass their degree's cant find work in their course trade.
- People who do apprenticeships, are on the other side of the boat and imo can find work easily.
- People who dont have a college education, degree, apprentiships just have the basic experience of their job, and hopefully for them its the one they wanna do for life otherwise their doomed imo.

 

[Succi]

the majority of people really DO NOT go to uni nowadays, 50% is a very longterm target set by the labour government

 

[Ezteq]

it makes me laugh that all the guys in government benefitted from a free education, as soon as they get in to power they make the future generations pay for it.

its a bit like having first dibs on the hooker and then sending her home before anyone else gets sloppies... omg sorry i got hookers on the brain today

anyway back on topic, im not sure that it is a good idea to give everyone a uni education i mean not everyone wants or needs one and some people just use it as a way to avoid going to work after school so maybe paying for it weeds out the dedicated folk from the bums.

surely the more people who have a university level education it detracts from the qualifications, i mean it used to be that uni made you stand out more but now everyone goes it doesnt distinguish anyone, but then again everyone should have access to education if they want it..
in short i dont know lol.

 

[- English -]

its not that noone can afford it, they give you loans and grants based upon s many factors. You dont pay a penny till you earn over 15k, and then its only a quid a month or so.

Yup id prefer it free tho

 

[Jeremiah]

Theres nothing wrong with lots of people going to uni, but as has been said, the majority dont finish with usable degrees.

The industry puts it's standards up accordingly, it wont be long till only a first class degree will get you into graduate recruitments. I just hope universities start dropping standards in order to get better average graduate grades

 

[Chronictank]

the majority of people really DO NOT go to uni nowadays, 50% is a very longterm target set by the labour government

thats not what i said
i said that they wanted everyone to go through the university education path, whether they do or dont is neither here nor there, because the fact of the matter is if the government is pushing for one thing the majority of funds and rescources are put towards that targer.
In this day and age its university, modern apprentaships do not exist like they used to, some companies privately run them which is not the same thing.

Theres nothing wrong with lots of people going to uni, but as has been said, the majority dont finish with usable degrees.

The industry puts it's standards up accordingly, it wont be long till only a first class degree will get you into graduate recruitments. I just hope universities start dropping standards in order to get better average graduate grades

no offence intended but thats just backward thinking,
if they drop standards the value of a degree in the international job market drops to worthless. If standards are dropped you may aswell just log onto ebay and buy a degree

 

[Jeremiah]

Sorry, I meant to write I hope they dont drop standards That would be a bad thing.

 

[eksdee]

it's practically free now anyway. you pay back £37 per month for a £20,000 a year job. absolutely nothing, would be a fraction of the tax and national insurance you pay - so realistically, students are not really getting into any debt what-so-ever from the loans they take out.

granted the loans don't necessarily pay your entire way in 3 years of education - but imo if you budget well it's more than possible.

 

[eksdee]

on the subject of standards - i think uni standards have dropped drastically. i work less and get better grades at uni than i did at college.

 

[Chronictank]

it's practically free now anyway. you pay back £37 per month for a £20,000 a year job. absolutely nothing, would be a fraction of the tax and national insurance you pay - so realistically, students are not really getting into any debt what-so-ever from the loans they take out.

granted the loans don't necessarily pay your entire way in 3 years of education - but imo if you budget well it's more than possible.

tell that to medical students, they dont even know if they are going to get a job at the end of it because of cut backs.
You will also realise when you leave uni you will be counted lucky to get a job paying 20k (dependant of the field ofc)

 

[Solo]

tell that to medical students, they dont even know if they are going to get a job at the end of it because of cut backs.
You will also realise when you leave uni you will be counted lucky to get a job paying 20k (dependant of the field ofc)

Meh if you choose a good course / uni should find a job no problem. Avoid mickey mouse subjects. I think that leaves just maths and physics. Oh I think you even get a £1000 a year grant extra when you do physics.

 

[Jeros]

computer science how do you rate that on a scale of disney toons?

 

[eksdee]

tell that to medical students, they dont even know if they are going to get a job at the end of it because of cut backs.
You will also realise when you leave uni you will be counted lucky to get a job paying 20k (dependant of the field ofc)

oh yeah definitely agree on both fronts. but still, if you earn less - you pay less back =] i just don't think it's as crippling as people expect.

 

[Cadelin]

http://pirate.planetarion.com/showthread.php?t=194046

So either you are both some spam bots or you are "The General8" Jeros...

 

[Jeros]

http://pirate.planetarion.com/showthread.php?t=194046

So either you are both some spam bots or you are "The General8" Jeros...

Yes i am, last time i cheaked

i wanted the nickname The General in that game years and years ago but annoyingly The General, The General1 etc etc were all taken, kinda stuck with the The General8 over the years in every game i play, except mmos ofc, TheGeneralEight is a silly name for a toon

Thinking of changing it tho, been like 7 years now and a lot of people remeber a very different teenage me for a long time ago

 

[Jeros]

Ironic, a few hours ago i was struggling to get 1000 words, now im struggling to keep it below 1100

 

[Jeremiah]

computer science how do you rate that on a scale of disney toons?

Computer Science graduates are and will continue to be in short supply, due to falling interest. Up here in Scotland, computing is the least taken subject at high school and I know that in my uni the numbers on the course fall every year.

Graduate recruitment programs have been known to pay over £21k/yr on the first year

 

[Megarevs]

Graduate recruitment programs have been known to pay over £21k/yr on the first year

thats really a low wage, in denmark i get £24k a year
thats without an education

 

[Jeremiah]

Yeah but the cost of living is higher over there too, so the salaries need to match it. A graduate in the uk could expect to earn around £18-£20k in their first job, while not being a great salary, its enough to get by on till your next job.

 

[Chronictank]

oh yeah definitely agree on both fronts. but still, if you earn less - you pay less back =] i just don't think it's as crippling as people expect.

yeah i agree with you on that, its not overly difficult to pay it back but i think it should be free

 

[Bahumat]

If it was free, students would not all be 10k in debt.

Fuck knows where they'll get the funding to support the uni's

 

[Tasslehoff]

thats really a low wage, in denmark i get £24k a year
thats without an education

But we have a lot higher tax too

 

[Bugz]

To be honest - all this shit about starting on a £20k wage is lies - unless you're a lucky exception.

I believe the average graduate wage for economists was ~£16,000 - medical students a fraction higher.

 

[Jeremiah]

To be honest - all this shit about starting on a £20k wage is lies - unless you're a lucky exception.

I believe the average graduate wage for economists was ~£16,000 - medical students a fraction higher.

Its not lies, even graduate nurses start on around £18k. TBH, to go through a 4yr education, get a first class honours, take on a student loan just to get £16k/yr job (which is easily achievable in careers not requiring further ed) would make me cry.

I graduated 2 years ago from uni in Comp Science. I stayed on for a post doc, but a girl who graduated in my year went on to a graduate recruitment job starting as £21k/yr.

 

[tris-]

for my chosen career i start between 16-19k, do 2 years of further training on top of my degree then the wage is between 20-40k