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old.ruWank
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- Thread starter
- #31
The Celtic Team cool? I don't understand why England has been separated from it's own nation and the Wales, Scotland moving in with Ireland. Gah, this just isn't going Englands way :/
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old.JeKill
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- Thread starter
- #32
Well, this was a terrible thing to have to do.
Due to a lack of progress in team building and the lack of cooperation with the community, I have removed Emgrin as the organizer for the England team.
As it stands right now, there is NO organizer for the England team and there is no England team.
What I will now do is ask the other organizers their feelings on letting the existing national team into the TWC. If the response is positive, I will try to get that rolling ASAP so as not to deprive the England team of practice time.
If it's not acceptable to the other organizers, we will have to work something else out. I am not going to even propose an idea as to what that would be as it will just make people argue about a hypothetical.
Due to a lack of progress in team building and the lack of cooperation with the community, I have removed Emgrin as the organizer for the England team.
As it stands right now, there is NO organizer for the England team and there is no England team.
What I will now do is ask the other organizers their feelings on letting the existing national team into the TWC. If the response is positive, I will try to get that rolling ASAP so as not to deprive the England team of practice time.
If it's not acceptable to the other organizers, we will have to work something else out. I am not going to even propose an idea as to what that would be as it will just make people argue about a hypothetical.
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old.ruWank
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- Thread starter
- #33
hmm, why can't u just let a respected member of the UK/Europe Tribes community run the England team?
France have Nico and the Celtic Team Zenith -they r well know peeps from within the community.
France have Nico and the Celtic Team Zenith -they r well know peeps from within the community.
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old.cybadog
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- Thread starter
- #34
Jekill,
I think the point people are trying to make here is that the England (or Britain, whatever) team had been hijacked already by Emigrem. No one has ever heard of him or seen him on the main UK servers or on the main UK Tribes IRC channels. This thread has been mentioned on the UK tribes mailing list, but he doesn't seem to subscribe to it.
Xtro, on the other hand has already been voted the captain of an England team and has previously organised try outs etc for this, and I haven't seen any posts other than support for Xtro on here, or on the UK tribes mailing list.
I realise you can't be familiar with the Tribes scene in all countries, but I recognise all the names in this thread as people who have annihilated me in the past
, and none of them seem to object to Xtro sorting it out.
FYI, the UK is virtually unique in the sports world as it enters 4 separate countries (England, Scotland, Wales & Northern Ireland) for just about everything
I think the point people are trying to make here is that the England (or Britain, whatever) team had been hijacked already by Emigrem. No one has ever heard of him or seen him on the main UK servers or on the main UK Tribes IRC channels. This thread has been mentioned on the UK tribes mailing list, but he doesn't seem to subscribe to it.
Xtro, on the other hand has already been voted the captain of an England team and has previously organised try outs etc for this, and I haven't seen any posts other than support for Xtro on here, or on the UK tribes mailing list.
I realise you can't be familiar with the Tribes scene in all countries, but I recognise all the names in this thread as people who have annihilated me in the past
, and none of them seem to object to Xtro sorting it out.FYI, the UK is virtually unique in the sports world as it enters 4 separate countries (England, Scotland, Wales & Northern Ireland) for just about everything
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old.JeKill
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- Thread starter
- #35
Don't you think I WANT that?
How many times must I repeat myself? NO ONE has actually volunteered to do the work we need to make it happen.
If Xtro agrees to put up a website devoted to the team (does one already exist?), and he agrees to have tryouts of some sort, and if he will work in good faith with the other leaders, I have no problem with him leading the team.
However, if he is demanding that only the existing team members be on the team and refuses to have tryouts at all then I will need to get the consent of all the other organizers since they have been held to that standard. That would be an exception to the rules and it would give England a tangible advantage since the other national teams are new. Also, it does go against the open and inclusive ideals of the TWC.
[This message has been edited by JeKill (edited 09 February 2000).]
How many times must I repeat myself? NO ONE has actually volunteered to do the work we need to make it happen.
If Xtro agrees to put up a website devoted to the team (does one already exist?), and he agrees to have tryouts of some sort, and if he will work in good faith with the other leaders, I have no problem with him leading the team.
However, if he is demanding that only the existing team members be on the team and refuses to have tryouts at all then I will need to get the consent of all the other organizers since they have been held to that standard. That would be an exception to the rules and it would give England a tangible advantage since the other national teams are new. Also, it does go against the open and inclusive ideals of the TWC.
[This message has been edited by JeKill (edited 09 February 2000).]
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old.Coyote
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- Thread starter
- #36
Good to see some progress here guys.
Jekill - thanks for the prompt response, let's hope it works out.
As for the query about the Celts, YES is the answer. The Celts team are going ahead as planned.
Zen is organising the team and representing the Welsh Contingent, Torque is representing the IRish and Scotsman is representing the Scottish. I (Coyote) am helping them out as a single Celtic team in the background too.
So fear not...the scantilly clan, drunk, loud, stoned, confused at times but mostly ok celtic warriors will be coming to a tribes server near you someday soon.
Be afraid, be very afraid!
- Coyote -
Jekill - thanks for the prompt response, let's hope it works out.
As for the query about the Celts, YES is the answer. The Celts team are going ahead as planned.
Zen is organising the team and representing the Welsh Contingent, Torque is representing the IRish and Scotsman is representing the Scottish. I (Coyote) am helping them out as a single Celtic team in the background too.
So fear not...the scantilly clan, drunk, loud, stoned, confused at times but mostly ok celtic warriors will be coming to a tribes server near you someday soon.
Be afraid, be very afraid!
- Coyote -
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old.Poker
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- Thread starter
- #37
Xtro already offered his services as England Captain?
Jekill: Are you available on irc to discuss/resolve this?
[This message has been edited by Poker (edited 09 February 2000).]
Jekill: Are you available on irc to discuss/resolve this?
[This message has been edited by Poker (edited 09 February 2000).]
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old.ruWank
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- Thread starter
- #38
Your saying we're not getting the point here, but also your not. The England team has held tryout's in the past -posted on www.tribesnation.co.uk- in the full view of a huge majority of the UK tribes scene. No-one said anything about him refusing to hold tryouts. If needs be i'm sure he will again.
Also, why would it be unfair to the other teams? France, Scotland and Ireland I know for sure have national teams.
As you can see we're not trying to slag you off here, we just want a better chance within the TWC as the overall scene in the UK know's of the UKTL from which it is largely based upon. You have to understand that someone of 14 years old trying to organise the England team, who then again know's a very limited part of the UK scene is not what the majority want. We want a fairer tournament just like yourself. If Xtro became the England organiser it would make it fair, but at the moment it is not. Atleast until you can agree for him to take the organisation of the team into his own hands.
[This message has been edited by ruWank (edited 09 February 2000).]
[This message has been edited by ruWank (edited 09 February 2000).]
Also, why would it be unfair to the other teams? France, Scotland and Ireland I know for sure have national teams.
As you can see we're not trying to slag you off here, we just want a better chance within the TWC as the overall scene in the UK know's of the UKTL from which it is largely based upon. You have to understand that someone of 14 years old trying to organise the England team, who then again know's a very limited part of the UK scene is not what the majority want. We want a fairer tournament just like yourself. If Xtro became the England organiser it would make it fair, but at the moment it is not. Atleast until you can agree for him to take the organisation of the team into his own hands.
[This message has been edited by ruWank (edited 09 February 2000).]
[This message has been edited by ruWank (edited 09 February 2000).]
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old.Brit
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- Thread starter
- #39
I think its abdundantly clear what the situation here is:
1. Emgrin is not going to be supported as the English Tribes Team Captain by anyone except other non-entities. Everyone here is more than happy for Xtro to assume this post.
2. The rules frankly suck ass. The makeup of each individual country's team should be up to the members of that country's community, and not divided up or imposed on by someone or a group as far removed from the locality as it is possible to be.
Resolution:
1. Xtro instated as England's captain.
2. The English community chooses the English
team. End of Story.
3. Xtro/English team sorts the English
Teams' website.
There is no issue of favourtism. There is no issue of malpropriety. Xtro will discharge his duties in the full glare of the UK community, and associated sites.
Another point I wish to make is that the GSI network has been up and down like a pair of whore's bloomers for the last month whilst you install your NetApp Filesystem, and configure your webservers. PSS was brought online with the second batch of sites (after PQ and FilePlanet) and has not been terribly reliable for a while, albeit the traffic routing problems are now being resolved.
The point being that we couldn't actually get to the rules.
--Brit--
1. Emgrin is not going to be supported as the English Tribes Team Captain by anyone except other non-entities. Everyone here is more than happy for Xtro to assume this post.
2. The rules frankly suck ass. The makeup of each individual country's team should be up to the members of that country's community, and not divided up or imposed on by someone or a group as far removed from the locality as it is possible to be.
Resolution:
1. Xtro instated as England's captain.
2. The English community chooses the English
team. End of Story.
3. Xtro/English team sorts the English
Teams' website.
There is no issue of favourtism. There is no issue of malpropriety. Xtro will discharge his duties in the full glare of the UK community, and associated sites.
Another point I wish to make is that the GSI network has been up and down like a pair of whore's bloomers for the last month whilst you install your NetApp Filesystem, and configure your webservers. PSS was brought online with the second batch of sites (after PQ and FilePlanet) and has not been terribly reliable for a while, albeit the traffic routing problems are now being resolved.
The point being that we couldn't actually get to the rules.
--Brit--
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old.mad12
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- Thread starter
- #40
Jekill,
Looking down the thread I can see your posts becoming more and more irritable
Clearly you can see the heartfelt opinions of the UK scene - 'Emigran' was obviously not the correct choice, as his organization skills are non-exsistant.
To solve this little problem just answer these questions:
1. You said that Enigram has done more than most organizers - what exactly has he done? I think if people see actual tasks being performed they might ease off the flaming
2. Clearly Xtro has the support of 99.999% of the community (Enigram = .001%) - and it is clear that Xtro wishes to be the organizer - grant him that wish and England will be happy and your tournament will go ahead with only a minor hiccup.
3. England has a structure already in place. It's democratic and fair - Xtro is friendly and open to new requests. Don't critisise his hard work by dwelling on a punctuality problem.
4. Keep smiling and remember it's just a game and we all want to have fun.
mad12-ufo-
Looking down the thread I can see your posts becoming more and more irritable
Clearly you can see the heartfelt opinions of the UK scene - 'Emigran' was obviously not the correct choice, as his organization skills are non-exsistant.
To solve this little problem just answer these questions:
1. You said that Enigram has done more than most organizers - what exactly has he done? I think if people see actual tasks being performed they might ease off the flaming
2. Clearly Xtro has the support of 99.999% of the community (Enigram = .001%) - and it is clear that Xtro wishes to be the organizer - grant him that wish and England will be happy and your tournament will go ahead with only a minor hiccup.
3. England has a structure already in place. It's democratic and fair - Xtro is friendly and open to new requests. Don't critisise his hard work by dwelling on a punctuality problem.
4. Keep smiling and remember it's just a game and we all want to have fun.
mad12-ufo-
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old.EgoWarrior
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- Thread starter
- #41
I'm confused. at 2am this was written by Jekill
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>At this time, he may be a little behind other organizers but he is performing his duties better than many other organizers.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
And by about 7pm he'd been taken down as leader due to lack of organisation? Thats not a very long time span. Can't PSS just admit that the were wrong and say it, rather than find silly excuses?
Go Sean, Go Sean, Go Sean
------------------
Tribes.OrgUK
egowarrior@yahoo.com
ICQ# 32578313
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>At this time, he may be a little behind other organizers but he is performing his duties better than many other organizers.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
And by about 7pm he'd been taken down as leader due to lack of organisation? Thats not a very long time span. Can't PSS just admit that the were wrong and say it, rather than find silly excuses?
Go Sean, Go Sean, Go Sean
------------------
Tribes.Org
UKegowarrior@yahoo.com
ICQ# 32578313
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old.JeKill
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- Thread starter
- #42
I had a chat with Emgrin and I didn't see the progress that was promised. You got what you desired, he's not the organizer anymore.
Let's drop that part of this discussion please.
Let's drop that part of this discussion please.
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old.Kittens
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- Thread starter
- #43
Wohoo - yeah, guys, stop with the talk about Emgrin - it was mentioned like 10 messages ago that he was removed. Chill with the still...
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old.JeKill
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- Thread starter
- #44
After a very good chat with Xtro and his assurances that the England team will be open to the public, I've decided that he is indeed the right man for the job. He is now the organizer for the "TWC - England" team.
The makeup of this team is up to him and I hope this ends the ugliness this issue has spawned.
I apologized to him about my lack of understanding of the scene in England and I appreciate his tactful way of educating me and his willingness to work with me to resolve this.
That said, I hope the personal attacks against me and PSS can stop. Please realize that some people posting those type of messages have a hidden agenda to tear down anything that PSS does no matter how noble the goals.
The makeup of this team is up to him and I hope this ends the ugliness this issue has spawned.
I apologized to him about my lack of understanding of the scene in England and I appreciate his tactful way of educating me and his willingness to work with me to resolve this.
That said, I hope the personal attacks against me and PSS can stop. Please realize that some people posting those type of messages have a hidden agenda to tear down anything that PSS does no matter how noble the goals.
G
Guest
Guest
- Thread starter
- #45
Ok - thanks for the chat Jekill.
Again thanks for the support guys - this matter is RESOLVED
I am TWC england capt like Jekill says.
Expect news on TN and tp.co.uk and more trials and details asap
thanks and lets get on with the practice and games!
Cheers
Xtro
Again thanks for the support guys - this matter is RESOLVED
I am TWC england capt like Jekill says.
Expect news on TN and tp.co.uk and more trials and details asap
thanks and lets get on with the practice and games!
Cheers
Xtro
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old.Alco
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- Thread starter
- #46
Doh, left it till its over to post my thoughts.. Still, not gunna let that deter me.. Ok, it sounds to me that youre all being a bit hard on JeKill, and PSS, because he didnt automatically pick the person u wanted, and the team u wanted, to represent England in this TWC thing. Now, as far as I can see, this was a tournament designed for ppl to put together teams, and enter into, which that emigrem bloke seemed to be doing. Now just because he's an unknown in the tribes scene doesnt mean that theres some big US conspiracy to keep the 'proper' England side outta the chase. Like JeKill said, if anyone wanted to enter a team then they shouldve mailed him an asked to, not just assumed that because they had put together an England side of their own, they'd get in by default.
And on the subject of England team captain, whilst I have absolutely nothin against Xtro, he seems like a cool bloke an all, I dont recall ever voting for him to be captain, and I dont know anyone else who did
Surely a more democratic way of election, rather than asking a few ppl who happen to be loitiering in IRC wouldve been some kinda vote?
And on the subject of England team captain, whilst I have absolutely nothin against Xtro, he seems like a cool bloke an all, I dont recall ever voting for him to be captain, and I dont know anyone else who did
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old.Kittens
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- Thread starter
- #47
Just for the record, concerning the vote for Xtro to be captain:
The vote was made after the initial England vs Scotland match. The voters consisted of almost the entire UKTL admin staff and about 30 other people, including those in the Scotland team - it was about as democratic as you can get, without posting an official voting time on TN.
Wh00p! Sense has prevailed - and on another note, I love the PSS site - I have been visiting it usually more than once daily since September, and have yet to be disappointed. Go PSS and go JeKill! Long live the USA!
[This message has been edited by Kittens (edited 10 February 2000).]
The vote was made after the initial England vs Scotland match. The voters consisted of almost the entire UKTL admin staff and about 30 other people, including those in the Scotland team - it was about as democratic as you can get, without posting an official voting time on TN.
Wh00p! Sense has prevailed - and on another note, I love the PSS site - I have been visiting it usually more than once daily since September, and have yet to be disappointed. Go PSS and go JeKill! Long live the USA!
[This message has been edited by Kittens (edited 10 February 2000).]
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old.Fusion
Guest
- Thread starter
- #48
hmm, Americans don't all run around with pings of 10 you know
Only people I know with pings that low are Caro, Dauphin and Dancing Dana.
Teams like MNO have a much lower ping average then the likes of IE, so this is a myth. Bare in mind America is a LOT bigger then the UK. So connecting to an american server from american doesn't mean you're gonna get a low ping, especially if its on the other side of the country
Teams like MNO have a much lower ping average then the likes of IE, so this is a myth. Bare in mind America is a LOT bigger then the UK. So connecting to an american server from american doesn't mean you're gonna get a low ping, especially if its on the other side of the country
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old.shonk
Guest
- Thread starter
- #49
I know its sorted now but
u just know that the usa team are all gona be ultra lpb's with a ping of 10
and if and when england play them it will most definatley be on a usa server(kos americans dont know the word fair)
as we dont have the luxury of super fast 10mbit cable or adsl here we will ping like 400-600 on the server
u just know that the usa team are all gona be ultra lpb's with a ping of 10
and if and when england play them it will most definatley be on a usa server(kos americans dont know the word fair)
as we dont have the luxury of super fast 10mbit cable or adsl here we will ping like 400-600 on the server
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old.JeKill
Guest
- Thread starter
- #50
You obviously haven't read the rules of the TWC and don't know the people involved. There are rules that are designed specifically to make pings as equal as possible. Fairness has been a primary goal from the beginning.
As a matter of fact, the US teams have been held to a higher standard in recruiting than the European teams.
As a matter of fact, the US teams have been held to a higher standard in recruiting than the European teams.
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old.JeKill
Guest
- Thread starter
- #51
Exactly... I connect to European servers better than west coast (US) servers. Seems the main atlantic backbone is closer to my ISP than the one that runs across the country. I live near Washington DC.
I am always downloading stuff from the European mirrors as it's always faster. I think pings will be widely variable for sure, but I think they will be fair.
I am always downloading stuff from the European mirrors as it's always faster. I think pings will be widely variable for sure, but I think they will be fair.
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old.Ewan
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- Thread starter
- #52
I think the important fact that you're all missing here is that the Banana Republic should reform, and we should all get drunk, then declare ourselves Masters of the Universe.
One problem though, BR had about 3 Welsh, 3 Scottish, and 4 English players
Ewan http://www.thebananas.co.uk
One problem though, BR had about 3 Welsh, 3 Scottish, and 4 English players
Ewan http://www.thebananas.co.uk
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old.Speed
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- Thread starter
- #53
Who are the Banana Republic?
[This message has been edited by Speed (edited 12 February 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Speed (edited 12 February 2000).]
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old.zach
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- Thread starter
- #54
Didnt they have their own TV show ages ago?
- NeaRly
- NeaRly
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old.Ewan
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- Thread starter
- #55
We're that team, you know the one, the one that had sing-alongs over roger wilco instead of discussing tactics.
Ewan
Ewan
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old.Zenith
Guest
- Thread starter
- #56
I know who they were, and I know who you are Ewan!
Let's just say that certain ex-[BR] members have expressed an interest in a certain team for the TWC...
Zenith
Co-ordinator
The Celtic Tribe
Let's just say that certain ex-[BR] members have expressed an interest in a certain team for the TWC...
Zenith
Co-ordinator
The Celtic Tribe
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old.Coyote
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- Thread starter
- #57
I think at this stage it's only fair that we load up some 1.1ghz athlon puppy with a 128 player capability on a decent backbone and get a nice vicious 64 v 64 game of Tribes going between the best the USA has to offer, and the best that Europe has to offer.
Jesus - that would be something. Only problem would be finding a map big enough to make it playable.
- Coyote -
Jesus - that would be something. Only problem would be finding a map big enough to make it playable.
- Coyote -
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old.Ewan
Guest
- Thread starter
- #58
What's wrong with Dangerous Crossing?
Ewan
Ewan
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old.Stigma
Guest
- Thread starter
- #59
I know certain ppl have *tried* to make this fair for everyone, but it definitely sounds like team ENG got shafted in this tribes world thing...As much as I would have luved to have seen you guys murder USE, you put on one hellova show...good job.
As far as former ENG teams etc getting changed...I don't know much about that but if it is how some of you say it is; I'm ashamed of this world league and the people who oversee it. As far as I'm concerned, there should be more overall organizers like Jekill...Europe should have their own organizers. If the Americans can't trust the Europeans to conduct recruiting etc fairly then there is no point in having a 'global' tournement of this kind...
I'm sure Jekill's motives where right for splitting up Britain into different nations etc, but it was a bad decision on his part and I hope future tournements will see this fixed. I mean, for goodness sakes...Britain as a whole could fit into California!! add to that fact that there are far less British players than American, it makes no sense to split the whole island up...in that way of thinking, Jekill should have split America into seperate states (California, Texas etc) instead of USE and USW...of course that would be as dumb as splitting Britain up.
I don't mean to sound as though I'm slagging Jekill...I'm sure hes put a lot of work into this whole thing, but hopefully these mistakes will be rectified in the event there is another world tourney.
Stig
------------------
Stigma [TKB]
TappaKeggaBrew
As far as former ENG teams etc getting changed...I don't know much about that but if it is how some of you say it is; I'm ashamed of this world league and the people who oversee it. As far as I'm concerned, there should be more overall organizers like Jekill...Europe should have their own organizers. If the Americans can't trust the Europeans to conduct recruiting etc fairly then there is no point in having a 'global' tournement of this kind...
I'm sure Jekill's motives where right for splitting up Britain into different nations etc, but it was a bad decision on his part and I hope future tournements will see this fixed. I mean, for goodness sakes...Britain as a whole could fit into California!! add to that fact that there are far less British players than American, it makes no sense to split the whole island up...in that way of thinking, Jekill should have split America into seperate states (California, Texas etc) instead of USE and USW...of course that would be as dumb as splitting Britain up.
I don't mean to sound as though I'm slagging Jekill...I'm sure hes put a lot of work into this whole thing, but hopefully these mistakes will be rectified in the event there is another world tourney.
Stig
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Stigma [TKB]
TappaKeggaBrew
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old.JeKill
Guest
- Thread starter
- #60
I originally formed a single UK team. I split it at the request of some folks from Ireland. I gave them a few extra regions of the UK as their "turf" just so it would even out better.
You obviously did not investigate the TWC rules and set up very well before making your statements. I inserted specific rules to limit the number of "same-clan" players on the larger teams and allowed the smaller teams more freedom in that regard. In this way the smaller teams with the tighter communities can leverage teamwork and compatibility against the larger teams trying to form a team from many members of rival clans.
It would be totally impractical to split the US into many tiny units. How am I to enforce and verify that? I will admit that the US and Canadian teams have power and talent. The same is true in any international competition. You don't see the Olympic events featuring France vs. Kentucky do you?
The excitement of this event is the fact that a small team could pull an upset on the larger teams. England got INCREDIBLY close to beating the USE team on Snowblind last night. I have a demo that shows their incredible teamwork (covering flag carriers and all). It was VERY close! England has nothing to be ashamed of in that loss. They impressed me and all that saw the match greatly.
I have made strides to even the playing field as much as possible. However, there is no way to have an event like this and still have the teams represent their countries. By your logic, I should split teams to match the smallest communities. There are teams in this event that include the ENTIRE national population of TRIBES players on the team. They are in it for the fun of it and perhaps the chance to surprise a bigger team with their skill and teamwork. In my experience teamwork beats individual skill every time. I think the smaller teams may hold some surprises in store. We shall see.
You obviously did not investigate the TWC rules and set up very well before making your statements. I inserted specific rules to limit the number of "same-clan" players on the larger teams and allowed the smaller teams more freedom in that regard. In this way the smaller teams with the tighter communities can leverage teamwork and compatibility against the larger teams trying to form a team from many members of rival clans.
It would be totally impractical to split the US into many tiny units. How am I to enforce and verify that? I will admit that the US and Canadian teams have power and talent. The same is true in any international competition. You don't see the Olympic events featuring France vs. Kentucky do you?
The excitement of this event is the fact that a small team could pull an upset on the larger teams. England got INCREDIBLY close to beating the USE team on Snowblind last night. I have a demo that shows their incredible teamwork (covering flag carriers and all). It was VERY close! England has nothing to be ashamed of in that loss. They impressed me and all that saw the match greatly.
I have made strides to even the playing field as much as possible. However, there is no way to have an event like this and still have the teams represent their countries. By your logic, I should split teams to match the smallest communities. There are teams in this event that include the ENTIRE national population of TRIBES players on the team. They are in it for the fun of it and perhaps the chance to surprise a bigger team with their skill and teamwork. In my experience teamwork beats individual skill every time. I think the smaller teams may hold some surprises in store. We shall see.