TRIBES World Championship and the England team.

[old.Speed]

/me notices the silence from across the atlantic...maybe they're having *cough* problems *cough* with their connections

I don't think blabbing about it in a Topic will do much good. I also think Jekill, Xtro and this Emgrin d00d should all meet up somewhere for a quick chat and sort out who will be doing what. *if anything at all*

hmmm exactly what X said...think they all missed it m8

Speed

------------------

 

[old.Kittens]

Hmm. Interesting. A tribes controversy - how rare

Well, oops, looks like there has been an adminsatrative failure here. Incidentally, it's interesting to see how many people have their mid-morning off and are able to post replies at around 10am

I think that there is really no issue to be discussed here at all. There are a number of obvious facts:

1. Emgrin, er, hmmm, is an entirely unknown quantity - and has never been seen in IRC or on an 'English' server.
2. Xtro, the TEAM ENGLAND captain, er, has.
3. Saying that Emgrin has been doing a passable job as an organiser is ludicrous - no one knows when these 'try outs' are occuring, or where due to his total non-presence in the UK Tribes scene.
4. It's all well and good putting restrictions on tribe members in the US - there are about a hundred of them, so that's fine - but in the UK there are considerably fewer than that.
5. Planet Starsiege are not the masters of all - they may have dreamt up the idea of a world championships, but barring the actual England team merely seems a product of arrogance, based on the fact that one kid asked first, so oooh, it had better be him who leads.

Taking these facts into consideration, there are only two conclusions available to me:

1. The US is scared that the genuine England team will trounce them because we had the foresight to actually make one (just like a lot of European countries - yeah, Europe, that blob on the right of the US, if you look on a big map).
2. PSS are unwilling to admit their error, or at least allow the actual UK scene to determine who the Team England captain will be.

Basically, look around, PSS, why not visit the #uktl IRC channel (where Emgrin won't be, due to his ignorance of the whole medium), and ask the English tribes players who their captain should be. This would take around 10 minutes of your time - and the answer, by the way, would not begin with an E.

 

[old.Fusion]

Well I haven't a bloody clue who emgrin is, what his abilities as a player are like, and whether he knows anyone in the UK scene or not.

This is nothing short of a farce. I think I speak for everyone in the UK when I say that Xtro should be the leader. He knows the players and we all know he'll make the effort to get the UK team up and running.

 

[old.[ITA]STURO]

Hi,

If anyone cares the Italians' take on this, well, it's a big no for PSS.

Their "fresh-teams" policy to me is simply absurd, as I can't just see why experienced teams may not join.

I only thank god there wasn't a fully organized national team before, in Italy, so we've had to build it from scratch anyway.

However, we built the team the way WE as a community wanted to.

We abode by formal rules as to the number of players and other things, but we have NOT allowed any interference concerning how to (and whether to) run try-outs or not, and how to pick the organizer.

In fact, I was elected as a mediator between tribes conflict and non-clan players' expectations.

I'm not just the first guy who's e-mailed PSS to be an organizer.

As I understand, that's the way English/British people wanted to do, and that's by far the fairest and most reasonable one...

------------------
[ITA] STURO
Italian Team Organizer

 

[old.JeKill]

Well, after an...um... chat with Suds about the makeup and organization of the TRIBES World Championship team, I think I better just make my side of this issue known.
It seems that a lot of people may be upset at the choice of organizers for the "British" (now renamed the England Team). Weeks ago we asked for volunteers to organize the team and very few people stepped forward. None of the people volunteering were on the ETL team. I made the decision to go with Emgrin due to his enthusiasm and promise to organize a team in the required time. At this time, he may be a little behind other organizers but he is performing his duties better than many other organizers.

I should explain that this event is designed to be a new event with new teams. I know the European scene is more organized with national teams and such but we want this event to be open to ALL players and we made rules that require each team to have tryouts. We also decided that to avoid having it turn into a clan-only event we would only allow no more than 2 members from any one clan/tribe on each team (exceptions made for countries with a small number of clans). This was done to force the teams to represent the community better and to avoid favoritism by the organizers themselves.

It was for these reasons that we rejected the idea of letting the ETL teams represent the country. I already turned down similar requests from several other European countries. It would be totally unfair to them to allow England to play with a fully organized team. All the organizers agreed to build a fresh team that would include a range of players including those not active in the clan scene for whatever reason. We of course want the best players, but we also want a fair playing field. I fully expect some ETL team members to be on the team. They will have a chance to go up against many of the best players in the world (and prove their skill as well). However, I have rejected Sud's demand that the ETL team itself represent England and I hope that everyone understands the reasons. Above all, I want this to be an inclusive and fair event. I want England to enter this event, I want England to show off their best players. Until I see evidence that he's not working out, I will keep Emgrin as the organizer for the team. Keep in mind that the LEADER IS ELECTED by the team. The organizer just gets everyone together to build a great team. Emgrin stepped up to the task when others did not. I hope you all can give him your support. It would be a shame not to have England represented due to a disagreement in the preliminary stages.

---------
JeKill www.planetstarsiege.com


[This message has been edited by JeKill (edited 09 February 2000).]

 

[Guest]

Well - at last some sort of response to the UK tribes community - albeit a slap in the face.
Firstly as captain of the England team, I offered Emigrem the chance for us to TALK and discuss the matter. I received a disappointing and insulting reply that was copied to the UK tribes mailing list.
Jekill - what do you mean by ETL teams?
The European Tribes League is a league for clans not national sides.
The England team was set up a couple of months ago, along with the French, Scottish and Irish teams.
England have already played Scotland and France - and this has been in conjunction with the United Kingdom Tribes League. Also we were in the process of organising an official European Championships. Has all this suddenly been thrown out of the window because people we had never heard of decided?
I really don't mean to come across as supposedly elite or big-headed. I am not the best player in the world - I am just UPSET that we are shoved aside after our efforts of the last couple of months.
Also - Britain is made up of Wales, N Ireland, Scotland and England.
The other countries have formed the Celtic team - how come its ok for them and not us?
Also France - likewise! France are a cracking team and they haven't been told - uh oh sorry you can't play - form a new national team.
None of this was distributed over the European scene properly - resulting in a lot of pissed off, cheated, upset players.
I dont see on the PSS site where it says teams have to be new????
Jekill - I want to talk to Emigrem, I want to talk to you. I dont want an immature slanging match or anything. Just please try and consider how you would feel if your efforts were suddenly brushed aside by people who you didnt know

Finally you have now renamed 'Britain' as England - this removes our last hope of any justice. We were hoping to enter as England if this 'British' team was still going ahead.
If we are going to be pushed out and forced to watch another team set up - then at least make sure ALL details are distributed to tp.co.uk, TN etc. Emigrem told me -'the trials are already starting'.Where? When? how? who with? And no - I won't be trialling.
What a MESS....

My mail address is Xtro@tribesnation.co.uk
Please talk to me URGENTLY - a whole community is gutted.

[This message has been edited by Xtro (edited 09 February 2000).]

 

[old.The_Fury]

What can I say? Sounds like a complete and utter farce.

As a one time member of the UK squad (great memories of crushing the Scots

) I find it disgraceful that the current England side is basically being frozen out of the TWC. The England, Scots and other home nation teams have been well organised by the various team captains, and the members of each team based on their abilities in tribes and also their availability. AFAIK before each international match the England team performed a series of trials to ensure that we had a steady team - not necessarily the best team that could be fielded from the pool of UK tribes talent.

Now to suggest that the organisation of these teams has been anything less than professional in the past is complete rubbish. From what I hear in the Tribes community (and I am by no means the eyes and the ears of the UK tribes scene - merely an onlooker at the moment), this Emigrin chap has failed to alert any of the UKTL players to the existance of try outs for the English team. In my book that ranks as poor organisational skill. Maybe if Emigrin was to acknowledge the existance of the UKTL mailing list, #uktl irc channel (for Emigrin's benefit - IRC is an online chat facility used by, ooooooo the majority of online Tribes players) and of course the various UK tribes servers such as Barrysworld etc then he or she will be in a better position to be able to choose members of his team.

Ignorance of the existing tribes scene is foolhardy to say the least. I say this not only because the team would be doomed to failure (that is a risk for any organiser), but will leave Emigrin and the chosen team rebuked by the UK tribes scene. Now if the UK footie team was chosen by a beazer home leagues manager and comprised some Sunday afternoon football team members then surely both the UK public and the Premiership players would simply ignore the UK team and therefore devalue the entire UK effort? Is this the goal of the TWC?

My parting comment would be this, be very careful not to devalue the effort of the existing home nation teams. If you do then the TWC will become a farce and those existing home nations will continue playing their internationals, their matches will be reported on tp.co.uk, tn.co.uk and BW, and the players of course will still be respected as only those who frequent #uktl will understand. Will Emgrin / TWC be able to say that about the teams that they have organised?


KT-TheFury
(ex. English team player)

------
The views expressed in this message are my own, and any correlation between my views and those of the various UK /home nation team captains and players is purely coincidence

 

[old.[cF]niCO]

This is completely weird.
I just want to remember to our US allies that the European people live and think democratically.
Just create a poll and you will see 150 votes for Xtro and 1 for Engrim.
--
(F) niCO, France organizer

 

[Mongrol]

It`s not wierd it`s bullshit. How can some unknown guy, who`s never been spotted on a UK or Euro server suddenly stand up and expect to represent a country`s tribes scene that he`s never been apart of, unless there`s some hidden secret UK scene I`ve never came across. Also, how can Jekill say he wants England to play they`re best players in one sentence yet say they`re not allowed to enter an organised team in another? What sorta crap is this? Even if this nonsense didn`t happend and we all had a pucker team does that mean we`re not allowed to practise? Hell, that might mean we`ll have a strategy for the matches.
TWC is was supposed to find the country with the best national tribesteam and that means a country should play it`s best players without restrictions. To do anything other isn`t fair competition no matter what the excuses.


------------------
Mongrol,
Crunchy on the outside,
Chewy on the inside.

 

[old.Brit]

Ah... Jekill, stirring things up again I see.

OK, so I've been sat on the sidelines as far as Tribes is concerned for a while now; moving job, moving home, lack of money, other 'projects', no decent net connect.. they all conspire to thwart my online gaming time.

However, I've run into Jekill before, and the current stance being adopted is not entirely suprising.

The Americans, by and large, know precious little about how the European Tribes Community (I think its fair, after the ETL, UKTL, Ladders and whatnot to refer to it as a singular entity) and how it is organised.

The TWC has sprung up from I don't know where in an effort to drive traffic to PlanetStarseige; its that simple. If you (like me) keep a close eye on the American Tribes scene, you'll know that the Clan World Leagues/Ladders/Network have been literally running away with the show as far as North American Tribes compos are concerned, getting regular coverage and advertising banners on the official sites.

I only heard about the TWC when PSS finally came back online with the rest of the GSI network, and was somewhat dismayed to see it happening in the way it was.

You see, there has been no serious talk between the organisers of things in the USA and Europe. Not publicly anyhow; and that is an issue I feel. Literally thousands of players are represented by the likes of Tribesplayers.co.uk, Tribesnation.co.uk, Tribes.de, and so on.. yet this whole rules and regulations malarky has been dreamt up by PSS who really have no idea on how things happen in Europe.

The likes of Poker, Suds, Xtro, Nico, Vixen and about 30 others have worked extremely hard to build what is now a first class pan European Tribes community. After the initial teething troubles, it has to be said that the ETC (woohoo! Anacronym Alert!) has become something truly impressive; and I for one am happy to be supporting it.

This rule about who can and cannot appear in a national side is an absolute joke. Forget the fact that most US players are already on seriously beefy cable connections, with their own private servers and so on, at the end of the day, I am watching the European Community being forced to conform to a set of rules (or rather this one daft rule) that is simply farcical.

In the football (thats soccer btw not that silly rugby with armour game) world cup, national teams are chosen by the national team manager on the basis of skill and .. nationality. The TWC should be run on exact same lines.

Europe is not an extension of the USA. We have built up a community which frankly rocks, and which is mature enough to decide on who goes in which team based on fair and equal rules.

--Brit--
www.tribesplayers.co.uk www.planet-tribes.com <-- Returning sOOn!

 

[old.Coyote]

The world does not revolve around the USA alone. Unfortunately PSS seem to think it does at present.


This is a double standard, a pathetic situation brought about by the lack of understanding and communication between the USA centric PSS organisers and the well known/established European players and community leaders.

The solution is simple. If PSS want this to be fair, then let the new boys try out for the EXISTING england team. There should be no decisions based on squatters rights or the 'first-come, first-served' rule. To allow a total unknown, with no presence in Europe, no tribed affiliations, no UBB presence, no existing relationships with anyone that we know of in Europe just walk in and flog themselves as the England team is a bit stupid. Granted - mistakes get made, but now that the mistake has been pointed out, and the national squad is ready and willing....Wake up PSS and do the right thing

Otherwise it just trashes the damn concept.


PSS, how would you feel if a bunch of total unknowns suddenly arrived and put themselves forward as the US team, or hell even the Canadian team. Then the REAL team comes knocking a few days later and you have a bunch of pissed off, very well known and respected players who ALREADY participate in a national team wondering why you are ignoring them.

Ask yourself PSS, would the same situation arise in the USA or Canada, with teams you already know, people you play with every day...I think not. This has happened because you know nothing about Europe and the teams within it. Fair enough - mistakes happen, but don't compound it by sticking to your incorrect assumptions.

Why don't you use the TWC to set that right. Get to know the Euro teams and players. Don't make a stupid mistake here. Be big enought to admit that you are well on the way to doing so right now with this farcical England team fiasco. Call a halt and realise that it has been brought about by your lack of knowledge in the pan-european tribes community and then fix it.

Sort it please. And fast

- Coyote -

 

[old.zach]

Like most uk tribes players ive never heard of Emgrin I don’t know if he knows his arse from his spinfusor.

The idea of playing for a leader that ive never seen play on public server doesn’t appeal to me and I think there will be a boycott of the England by all its top players unless pss do the proper thing and put Xtro in charge.

- NeaRly

 

[old.suds]

ok, enough is enough.

Time to convene a worldwide council (of league admins & interested parties) which recognises that more than the US exists. This can become an official world tribes council to help organise a proper competition.

poker, come back all is forgiven

 

[old.[cF]niCO]

Am I the only one to remember that a lot of european teams don't know how to play a 10v10 match ? =)
ETL, mptl, Uktl, ctf ladder, x-Wptl: 8v8.
I'm sure that a large majority of the teams involved in this competition are used to play 8v8 instead of 10v10.
What about a compromise ? 9v9 could be interesting.
--
(F) niCO, France Organizer


Personal message :
[ITA]STURO, we don't know the Italian players. What about a scrim between the french [cF] and your Italian clan ?
mailto:nicolasroux@free.fr
(sorry to write this in this thread but STURO didn't specify his address)

 

[old.[ITA]STURO]

Oops, my bad...

For the scrim, check e-mail soon, I'll ask my guys.

As to the numbers of players, we do always play 10 on 10 in normal ladder games, so we'd prefer that.

Anyhow, the rules say one team is forced to scale down to 8 if the others are less...

------------------
[ITA] STURO
Italian Team Organizer

 

[old.Zenith]

Okay, here's my take on this.

I had not heard of Emigrem before seeing his name on the TWC teams site. It could well be that it is someone who is 'known' working under an alias, but quite frankly I doubt it. I have been searching around the web for allsorts of info about the TWC and national teams and I find it peculiar that the British (now English) team hasn't even got a well advertised way of spreading info relating to the TWC. Emigrem has been quoted as saying that "tryouts are underway". I invite anybody that is involved in those tryouts to post to this forum confirming this.

I agree with Jekill in that the organiser is not necessarily the leader of the team. That is exactly what I am at the moment. I'm only the organiser of the Celtic team, I am not the leader. Between -KT-Torque, [SS-02]Scotsman and myself, we'll be going through all the applicants to pick the 24 for the squad. Once the squad has been picked, there will be a vote made to decide who is the leader and voice for the team. I don't consider myself as the leader because I know that I am not of the required calibre (word of the day!).

Now I have know Xtro for quite some time, from not long after he started playing Tribes online in fact. I have seen him go from newbie, to competent, to a bloody good player (IMO). Add to that his friendly personality which most of us here have come to expect of him, and you have a natural candidate for a leader. *I* know that he also has the organisational skills to pull the England team together.

Putting this into context as I see it (sticking my neck out a bit).
I am a known Tribes player in the UK. Granted I may not be one of the hot-shots, but people recognise me when I appear on IRC.

Xtro is most definitely a known player with numerous news columns, a presence on IRC and on the ICQ lists of a hell of a lot of people.

Emigrem is not known in the UK, apart from the furore that is going on at the moment.


Now there are two courses of action open to Emigrem, Xtro and anyone who would like to represent England.

1 - Emigrem actually goes and talks with Xtro about incorporating his ideas with the established England team. The team is already well balanced, with no particular Tribe having more presence or influence than another. They are constantly having requests to join/sign up from various members of the community.

2 - The England team gets sidelined for this event, which totally goes against the idea of the Championship. I am not even considering this option as a viable one.


It seems to me that if Emigrem and Xtro got their heads together, the England team would go from strength to strength. What is already a quality team would get better IMO.

(btw... I haven't quit StarSlayers in case some people wondered)

Zenith
Co-ordinator for the Celtic Tribe
http://come.to/celtic.tribe

 

[old.JeKill]

God, why is this happening?

I'll try explain this as clearly as I can. I think a lot of people are totally misunderstanding the intent of myself, PSS, and the TWC. Please, everyone just try to look at this from the perspective of building an international event.

We recently had the first birthday of PSS and decided to try to do something big to celebrate. Something that could bring together players and communities from all over the world. The idea of the TWC came up and I volunteered to administrate it. Since there is no worldwide league we decided to have teams formed from the players of each country. We asked for volunteers for each country weeks ago. Very few people stepped forward. I was not contacted by Xtro or any other person representing an existing English team at that time. << Please read that sentence again... It got down to the time to make a decision and I went with the best candidate (Emgrin).

I fully admit not knowing all about the European leagues and teams. But we decided to go with fresh teams to make it fair across the board for ALL countries. For the record, the French I believe asked to play their "official" team first and I turned them down (and they accepted it).

Why did I turn them down?

Here is the sole reason... We wanted the teams to represent the widest demographic of players in a country. This was to include players that were not in a clan and even newer players that were skillful but not well known enough to be on the existing "national" teams. We require each team to have tryouts and to at least look at players that apply to be on the team whether they are widely known in the community or not. We want the organizers to build a team that is skillful and works together. I am not saying that the existing national team(s) are not skillful or anything like that. I fully expect that many of the people on the TWC teams WILL be from the national teams. All I asked was that the TWC team be open to all applicants and not closed off to them. It was just a matter of fairness and inclusiveness.

Other countries have accepted this and the organizers are making teams right now. These teams will be a good cross section of the community in each nation. I fully understand that it may not be the absolute BEST team you could put forth, but at least it's fair across the board.

Here are my main points:

- I am NOT trying to exclude England from the TWC in any way. I am doing my best to make sure that England is represented.

- My main request is simply that some tryouts occur so that more people have a chance to join "their" national team. I don't want people to feel that the "elite" players in their nation are the only ones that can represent them.

- I changed the name of the team from "Britain" to "England" to avoid confusion with the Celtic team.

- If the current organizer is not working out (I am checking on his progress closely today), he can and will be replaced. But who will step up to the task?

- Fairness and good competition is my ultimate goal. For evidence look to our rule against having too many players from one clan. This is being enforced strictly on the North American teams (which have hundreds of clans to choose from) but relaxed for other countries that have few clans or very small communities.

- People on the existing team are fully welcome to participate in the TWC team. In fact if the organizer wants to nominate every one of them as the "TWC - England" team, that will be fine as long as there are some sort of open tryouts (or at least interviews) so that people do not feel excluded.

- If the organizer is showing clear prejudice or favoritism, he will be replaced.

- Emgrin is just the organizer (he's mainly responsible for just the initial stages). The actual team leader must be elected by the team.

- Emgrin is a VOLUNTEER. Anyone who didn't volunteer to help or do the organization really has no real right to complain.

- No one has yet presented any evidence to me that Emgrin is doing a bad job. Send me your correspondence if he's done something against the rules or spirit of the competition.

- I have nothing against ANYONE in the UK community. I can't understand these personal attacks against me and PSS at all. This is not a tool to drive traffic to PSS. It's something that we just thought would be cool to try.

- Since it's never been tried, we are doing our best to make sure the playing field is fair for all countries.

I fully realize that most of you will not even try to understand what I have said and what we are trying to accomplish. In that regard, I am not unreasonable and I will listen to reasonable arguments (I won't respond to flames). I am going to send an email to ALL the national organizers and ask them to give me their opinion on this issue. If there is a strong consensus that the existing national teams of Europe should be the official representatives in the TWC, I will allow them. It's not really fair to the other teams in my opinion since most nations don't have a national team, but if the other organizers want to allow it or don't mind then I will try to accommodate your demands.

 

[old.Coyote]

Anyone know if MNO entered (as a national team of course)?

j/k - sorry couldn't resist.

- Coyote -

 

[Stamper]

Well Jekill, you've certainly shown your true interest in this world cup by your actions involving this. Are you organising this yourself? Do you have any european contacts for our side of things? Or is it like we all guessed, a simple plug for PSS and a playground for the USA team.

I fail to see any valid reason why the current team should be broken up to be replaced by this 14 year old newbie. Do you want good, fun, entertaining matches? or do you want to see a team of newbies get walked over who don't evem know how to use favourites!

Does England, and many other footbal teams have 2 national teams? One for the World CUp, and one for the Euro2000 ? Course not.

I stand with the majroity of players as in if we're not allowed to play, we won't make the effort and watch your newbie tribes make an embarasment of PSS.

Just looking at the site even, this event could be HUGE, cept due to dedication and organisation it is a shambles.

We had the idea of national teams long before you did, we have played matches, we've had it organised, the best players from 4 countrys have all competed, played well, and been very organised with regard to matches, servers, times and styles of play. Check out www.tribesnation.co.uk for REPORTS of those matches.

England, along with the USA and Germany are going to be your most important teams imo. Anyone can organise a tribe of 12 players, but who can make that tribe successful? Emgrin certainly can't, no-one hear has ever heard from or seen him. I spotted him on ICQ and he couldn't even spare me 5 mins of his time, refusing to give me a time when he'd be back on. Hows that for organisation?

IIRC, Xtro was made captian of the england team by a unanimous vote, he didn't pick himself up all big and say 'I am the captian' he wasn't handpicked by one person and dedicated the captian. he didn't send an email off and become lucky. He was picked by the UK Tribes community as he is a respected player and ideal captian. I've met the guy in real life, and he certainly has what it takes. Emgrin? NO chance!

SO Jekill, while the England team is still willing to co-operate you, just do these things

1) Reinstate Xtro as England captian
2) Obtain some European people to manage the tribes side of things over here.
3) Think if you want your cup to be a failure, or avid success.

Failure to do these things will result in failure of your cup. i've already heard rumours of boycotting this cup, which would be VERY easy to do and gain the support of many national tribes. Just a little advice there....

 

[old.[cF]niCO]

I didn't know that Jekill rejected our French national team. My position is very simple and I don't want to lie :
- we want to win the TWC and the France will be formed from our BEST players.
- In France, we have less than 30 active players and only 2 clans.

If I'm the France organizer, my team IS and WILL BE composed from :
- 70% [cF]
- 30% [AFM] and ClanLess players

If Jekill doesn't agree, just delete my name from the TWC homepage.

Another thing : I don't know what Jekill calls "a good job" but there is a difference between a nice webpage and 1 year of dedication to the community.

I will retire my application to the TWC if Xtro and the real UK community can not (or refuse) to participate to the TWC.
--
(F) niCO

 

[old.JeKill]

I'll have to look up which country it was that initially asked to put up the national team. I might be wrong about that.

As I said, small communities are allowed to have multiple players from a single clan. The goal is openness. If I just closed it off and said "Xtro, bring your team". Then I might be getting complaints from players that were never given a chance to even try out for the team.

If in fact, the existing England team truly is open to all players (even those not in a clan) and if I get assurances that it is still open and at least some sort of tryout can be had (the team can be up to 24 players), then I will try to either have Emgrin step down or have him work with Xtro and others.

However, this will require a committment by Xtro or someone else to put up a webpage for team news and contacts and act as the organizer.

I am trying to be fair. If I made a mistake with the organizer I will fix it. As of right now, no one else has stepped up to be the organizer (including Xtro). I don't think it's cool to just coronate someone that has expressed no interest in the TWC during the initial stages and push aside someone that volunteered their time and resources.

Xtro was NOT removed as the team leader/organizer. He never asked to be one. The TWC team is NOT a replacement for his team. The two can co-exist and in fact have many or all of the same members. If I had been approached by him or anyone else on the team I could have tried to work it out. Maybe, it requires a little give on both sides. I can't feel good about myself if I just let someone take over a team because they think it's "their right" to do so. What would I tell Emgrin at this point? Prove to me that you are committed to the TWC concepts (including following the rules that all the other teams are following). Prove to me that you will at least put forth the time to put up a webpage and have some tryouts.

I'm sorry I don't know about the scene in every country. I am sorry if it looks like we are trying to push aside anyone. We are simply trying to organize a new world event that is fair, fun, and inclusive. We started with a clean slate and didn't want this event based on existing teams and such.

Truth be told, I would PREFER that the established teams represent their countries. But unless I can be assured that they are open to the whole community I am not sure it would be fair to the other countries just starting a national team.

I need more information and direct communication on this and I will make the attempt. I guess I am being educated at this point. I hope to work this out by this weekend. I will attempt to talk to Xtro, Emgrin, and the other organizers about what to do.

 

[old.Coyote]

JeKill,

I welcome your comments above and I'm glad you are monitoring this situation / thread.

Assuming that your intentions are honourable, and you have in fact designed these rules with newbies in mind...why then would you want to host a world challenge / championship of unmatched / uneven teams?

I'm not trying to be obtuse here, or even to flame you. I am taking your logic of trying to avoid established teams forward and applying it to the Euro situation - and unfortunately it fails because we already had national teams, pooled from *multiple* clans/tribes in existence.

so - where I totally understand the need to stop major squads like IE entering as the US team (for example) I think you have missed one very salient point.

We have already taken care of this, since we organised national teams ages ago and that included try-outs and cross-tribe population. These teams have been playing for months now.

So - why not just look on that as a positive step in your direction. We have achieved what you are trying to do already, and have the teams ready to go.

In the case of England - granted they were late to come to the competition, but sanity should surely prevail. The REAL squad are there, waiting to go.

In the case of France, again sanity should prevail. There are realistically only 2 tribes in France that compete in any leagues, and as Nico says - take it or leave it - that is their national squad.


I really fail to see the problem here on your part. We all want the same thing, but perhaps the Euro organisation was a bit ahead of the posse when you were drawing up the rules?

Over to you

 

[old.JeKill]

Xtro, please email me at jekill@planetstarsiege.com. Send me your IQC please. I would like to chat directly with you.

For obvious reasons, I don't wish to post my ICQ here.

 

[Stamper]

"Xtro bring your team"

Thats not how it is.

Why should we need to give more tryouts? The england team started by a friendly between England and Scotland during the England V Scotland world cup qualifyer. the best players were picked from that team as a base for the england team. About 10 players iirc. We held trials after that, to push up numbers. And further trials after that. i think there are currently about 20 players, but if we must push the player range up to 24 to give 4 extra players false hope of ever playing then we will.

 

[old.Kittens]

Well, JeKill, I am glad that you are taking all of our comments into account, and I am certain that Xtro will be in contact with you soon.

Thanks for your time - no one wants to turn a fun competition into a pointless bit of animosity due to an administrative balls-up. Long live the USA

 

[Guest]

First - thanks for the overwhelming support from the everyone - gosh I am humbled

.
Right Jekill that last post - much more positive - thanks.
Jekill, I understand that you can't know EVERYTHING about EVERY tribes scene - no one can. And yes I can understand that you must be thinking about the 'can of worms' that has been opened.
Ok here's the history of the England team - this will be mercifully brief

The UKTL - United Kingdom Tribes League - back in November, asked the UK community if it would like a match Scotland vs England. Teams were hastily formed - no official captains were picked. It was only during the actual game that I just slipped into the role of captain - organising the team.
After the match we were asked by the UKTL admins if we would like to do this again.
The answer - a resounding yes! The team voted for me as captain straight after the game - many thanks to them. Also the team then was a mix of players with varying abilities - not just Division one l33t players (because I am certainly not one of them!).
After this match - Ireland and France quickly assembled teams and then it spread like wildfire - with a '5 nations' tournament (Wales,Scotland,England,France and Ireland) and a Euro 2000 competition discussed. Teams were set up all over Europe.
As the new captain of England - I organised FAIR trials through Tribesnation.co.uk and irc etc. I made SURE that people knew it would not be a team of Division One (UKTL) LPB super-players but a decent team with a mix, it didnt matter what clan you were in, what div they were in, if they were clanned or WHATEVER. Only that they could make games, be mature and had skill.
England went on to play France after these trials. We lost - a very good game indeed and the news was posted by nico to many sites.
Since then I have discussed Euro 2000 with the representatives from other European teams and worked to make it fair and get it set up. I held trials for England about a month ago to make sure more players had the chance to be part of our large squad - again insisting that it was fair and open.
The English/UK scene is fairly small compared to the USA but is larger than France for example. I dont want a team with 8 people in the same clan - but nico doesnt have the choice.
About contacting PSS and the TWC - simple answer - I dont read PSS! Well forgive me

I was alerted to the 'British' team by friends in the scene and promptly mailed Emigrem to alert him to the fact that national teams for Ireland, England etc existed already and I asked to TALK to him.
Of course I want to co-operate, of course I want it to be FAIR!

After the poor response I had from Emigrem I spoke to a lot of UK players and then Suds said he would speak to PSS - so I waited until he did. By the way the mail to Emigrem and the response were copied to the whole of the UK tribes mailing list - I like people to be informed and involved.
There has been a lot of valid points made by the people here and thanks to all of them.
Emigrem mailed you first - I didnt know about the TWC until later - end of story.
I am not demanding to be the England Captain of the team that enters the TWC. I am offering my services as someone who is well known and has experience throughout the UK and European scene to a) lead the English team - ensuring fair trials (although this is how the 'Official' team came about - ie. the one I lead now) b) help out - period.
My mail address as I said - Xtro@tribesnation.co.uk
My ICQ is - 37230870.

I dont want the UK scene to reject the TWC - and I am flattered by nico but I dont want the French to withdraw.
I also feel some sympathy for Emigrem - who may be full of goodwill but didn't know the UK scene that existed - hence my mail to HIM first, not a complaint that whined to PSS. Very valid point I think there.

Over to you Jekill
by the way where is Emigrem

Cheers
Xtro


[This message has been edited by Xtro (edited 09 February 2000).]

 

[old.Kittens]

Xtro - I don't think Emgrin knows what a bulletin board is - he's just a kid after all

 

[old.JeKill]

The rules are not made for the purpose of getting newbies on the teams. They are designed to prevent an organizer from playing favorites and just making his clan or a bunch of friends the national team. They are designed to actually insure that the process is open and fair to all players so that the BEST team can be made instead of a small clique of friends.

We made the rules carefully and put some thought into them. I had about a 2 week period where the rules were up for comment. Regrettably, no one brought up this issue.

The rules in fact are NOT locked down and won't be until the start of the games. However, it's gone to a point where I feel to be fair that I have to get the input of all the organizers before I change something.

Basically, England is asking for special treatment and an exception to the rules that were set forth weeks ago. I want to make sure that this exception if it is in fact granted is good for the TWC as a whole.

 

[old.Fusion]

I'd love to know what server we'd be on if England played America

 

[old.Shelob]

These posts are too long for me to read.
When the discussion is concluded can someone let me know if the Celt team is going ahead, as I thought it was a kinda cool idea.

Shrap