News Tossers

[Access Denied]

What a bunch of crap

The government said seven out of 10 smokers want to give up.

Well I don't remember being asked that. Does anyone else remember a national survey asking smokers if they want to quit? Those who want to quit smoking will, those that don't, won't. I smoke and I'll continue to do so until the day I no longer enjoy it, then I'll quit. I don't smoke in the house or the car (At least when my dauighter is in there) and I don't smoke around her. So the only person I'm harming is myself.

We've come so far and now we'll go even further -- to push forward and save even more lives.

Uh huh and what about all the shit that gets drawn into our bodies when walking down the street? What the government fail to mention is that we breathe in more shit during a 5 minute walk down the high street than we would by standing for an hour in a smoke filled pub.

/Rant 1

Fucking NHS. Abi (My daughter) is not well. The Misses took Abi to her mums for the weekend on Friday and when they got back yesterday Abi was breathing really fast, was really lethargic, hadn't been eating and her body felt like a radiator. She also has a very chesty cough. So I called up NHS direct, and while I was talking to them the skin under her fingernails started going blue. NHS direct told us to take her to the hospital, so we did. We got there at around 18:20 and were seen by the Triage nurse in around 5 minutes. She examined Abi, took her temperature and in her own words it was "Skyrocketing" it was 39.5c. Now the A&E wasn't busy and yet we were made to wait until 20:20 before we were called into the examination room, where we were told that the doctors were in handover and it would be a while. We walked out at 21:00 because she was just too exhausted. Now would you keep a baby with that high a temperature and blue fingernails waiting that long? Especially since there was one man who came in after us with what I suspect was a sprained ankle as he was wlkaing on it who was seen inside 10 minutes. We will be writing to complain about the level of care.

/Rant 2

 

[CorNokZ]

Just be glad you're not in France! I was hospitalized the day before I was leaving and the next morning they asked me if I would like surgery.. No thank you! And non of them spoke any english! Also because I didn't have my blue european health insurance card, but only had the original danish yellow one, I had to pay 1103€ and they had done fuck all to me. Painkillers and a bed and that was it

But I'm glad to hear your daughter got taken care of eventhough you feel like it took a longer time then you expected

 

[Calaen]

Had my own daugther to the A&E on three occasions, and on all 3 occasions waiting time was very low, and the help/reassurance we received was top notch.

Your leaving hardly helped the staff either.

 

[Ezteq]

nope no one asked me if I want to give up smoking...if I did I would but I don't so I still do it. I think they must just assume because it is such a disgusting, antisocial, unacceptable habit no one could possibly enjoy it.

I bloody love my fag I do.


and me pipe.


and a cigar occasionally.

 

[georgie]

I used to love smoking too. Alas it just got too expensive not to mention I was starting to feel it on the chest.

That said, if I won the lottery I can't say that I definitely wouldn't start smoking again. I still miss it 4 and a bit years on. Also, when I dream, I'm often still a smoker. Kinda weird that.

 

[fettoken]

Just be glad you're not in France! I was hospitalized the day before I was leaving and the next morning they asked me if I would like surgery.. No thank you! And non of them spoke any english!

Whoa, what happened? Went down the wrong slope?

 

[megadave]

Considering the number of people who die due to smoking i don't see how anyone can complain.

 

[georgie]

Considering the number of people who die due to smoking i don't see how anyone can complain.

Nowadays there is no excuse for not knowing that smoking kills you. You pays your money and you takes your choice.

If everyone in Britain were to quit smoking over night, I wonder how non-smokers would react to the sudden massive increase in taxes that would have to be paid...

 

[CorNokZ]

Whoa, what happened? Went down the wrong slope?

Nah, same old shit I get with my stomach every now and then! Hadn't happened for a while and then all of a sudden on the last night out..

 

[Jeros]

Ban smoking tbh.

There would be less strain on the NHS and more beds free.

Also you wont have stupid ****ers smoking around their kids or when pregnant, which I always bite have to bite my lip when I see. People can do what they want to themselves, but when it affects others.....

Besides plenty more things to tax yet, how about moar tax on 4X4s and big cars or perhaps an increase on the prize of booze eh. People have shown they will drink no matter what the price.

And yes i do smoke (on occasion when stressed, might have one a min actully)

BUT

If they banned it i would respect the ban

Oooooooh i cant wait till my generation is in power.

 

[ST^]

You're kind of retarded if you think statistical data is invalid unless every single person in the country is asked.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Ban smoking tbh.

There would be less strain on the NHS and more beds free.

Also you wont have stupid ****ers smoking around their kids or when pregnant, which I always bite have to bite my lip when I see. People can do what they want to themselves, but when it affects others.....

Besides plenty more things to tax yet, how about moar tax on 4X4s and big cars or perhaps an increase on the prize of booze eh. People have shown they will drink no matter what the price.

And yes i do smoke (on occasion when stressed, might have one a min actully)

BUT

If they banned it i would respect the ban

Oooooooh i cant wait till my generation is in power.

Right.

Ban people with baby carriages in busses, trains, or bumping into you on the street 'cause their baby is so damn important.

Ban people forcing things on others because THEY had a baby.

Give those who don't make kids, free vacations etc too.

I'd respect the bans because, well, i don't have a kid so why shouldn't i?

Get the point?

If not;

Smokers are not the problem, inconsiderate bastards are.

 

[gohan]

you all smoke cock.............

 

[Ezteq]

Also you wont have stupid ****ers smoking around their kids or when pregnant, which I always bite have to bite my lip when I see. People can do what they want to themselves, but when it affects others.....

B2 had to listen to some calls for his new job with a debt consultancy firm, this woman had called in and was discussing her financial situation she said she has 3 disabled children who cost a lot to look after so she gets £21K per year in benefits, she spends about £40 a week on fags, but has to cut down a bit because she's pregnant again...

I smoke, wouldn't do it round children, and it makes me feel sick to see it but I am sure that if I went up to them and said 'um, do you think you should be smoking while in your condition/round children?' I'd get stabbed in the face and the last thing I heard as I slipped out of consciousness would be 'Don't tell me how to raise my fucking kidz!!'

 

[Genedril]

Ban driving tbh.

There would be less strain on the NHS and more beds free.

Also you wont have stupid ****ers driving around their (and others) kids or when pregnant, which I always bite have to bite my lip when I see. People can do what they want to themselves, but when it affects others.....

After all not only do the fumes affect people - they hit things (people and property), they make people fat and lazy and the construction of them, running them, and providing the infrastructure to make transport work is vastly more damaging to the environment than having a smoke.


{taking a leaf from Toh's book can't be good for me}


Ohh & yes I do drive .

 

[Thorwyn]

Playing a bit of devil´s advocate here...

Let´s face it, smoking *is* a cultural relic. If someone invented smoking today, he would have zero chance to bring it on the market. Smokers might be aware of the fact that they´re killing themselves. But unfortunately, smokers usually don´t just fall over and die. Instead, they´re getting sick and - quite often - drain the health care system for years.
I think it´s still too early to just ban smoking. What we need to do is aim for a general consensus that smoking is no longer a self-evident part of our culture.

The driving analogy is flawed btw. Driving usually serves a common purpose (getting people from A to B in considerably short time). Smoking doesn´t have that common purpose.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Playing a bit of devil´s advocate here...

Let´s face it, smoking *is* a cultural relic. If someone invented smoking today, he would have zero chance to bring it on the market. Smokers might be aware of the fact that they´re killing themselves. But unfortunately, smokers usually don´t just fall over and die. Instead, they´re getting sick and - quite often - drain the health care system for years.
I think it´s still too early to just ban smoking. What we need to do is aim for a general consensus that smoking is no longer a self-evident part of our culture.

Maybe.

Maybe is the key word people forget.

You're maybe killing yourself with smoking.
You're maybe causing health care bills.

Smoking is just the same as alcohol, red meat, driving a bugatti veyron, driving a hummer, smoking weed, doinhg other drugs etc etc.

It's what people want to do, but since it's not something YOU(general you) want to do, it becomes a problem.

Why there's a government pressure and changes coming? It's popular and brings in easy votes.

Morons with cars cause accidents, morons with drugs cause problems, morons with kids kill children, morons with smokes cause trouble to others.

And anybody claiming they are so worried about peoples health are full of it, most people hated smoking in bars because of the smell, if they were worried about their health, they wouldnt' have gone.

 

[Calaen]

Sorry but me driving a car does not increase the chances of me or my passengers from getting a terminal disease.

I love how you mention morons driving yet you can't actually drive legally and you are all for people texting and being distracted while driving as long as you consider them a good driver, and they are distracted when it's not dangerous. rofl noob

 

[Genedril]

Car exhausts emit particulates which get into your lungs - they do increase your, your passengers and the people you drive past chances of getting a terminal disease.

They're also harmful to the environment from creation, through running and infrastructure creation & maintenance, to eol.

The argument put forward by Jeros was that smoking is a strain on the medical services & had an effect on children (& other people - I took that as an extension). I was merely taking his argument & applying it to something which causes just as much (if not more) harmful effects on people.

The counter argument could be that car's don't run in enclosed spaces (apart from car parks and garages) but then smokers don't get to smoke in enclosed spaces anymore either...

I'm not advocating that people should not drive - I'm merely using Jeros' argument to show that it is a flawed position. Unless you're prepared to accept the the government should crack down on everything that is harmful to yourself, other people etc then it is a restriction of personal choice to pick one group (who happen to be the current social leper du jour) while ignoring that other groups can cause the same (if not worse) issues.

If you want to ban smoking because you think people aren't capable of making a decision over whether or not it is harmful to them then people should say just that (I take exactly the same stance on drugs for the record). My personal opinion is that the more you restrict & take away choice and the need to make informed decisions (for their right or wrong) by people then the less they have to think and so the less they do think and the stupider they become.

BTW - horse and cart is a great way to get from A - B without damaging the environment Thor. Wont hurt people much either as they don't usually go fast enough to hit other people. Would need to find some way to clean up all the horse shit though.

 

[ST^]

Don't ban smoking, just tax the fuck out of it (even more than they're already doing). Then it pays for healthcare and everything else!

 

[Ezteq]

love the idea of horses and carts, and the horse crap would be excellent natural fertilizer, and I'm sure you can use it as a fuel too I seem toremember reading a while ago, also it is a breeding ground for bugs = more bird food which is dangerously low due to pesticides and habitat loss.

Tis a win win situation tbh!!

 

[Calaen]

Car exhausts emit particulates which get into your lungs - they do increase your, your passengers and the people you drive past chances of getting a terminal disease.

They're also harmful to the environment from creation, through running and infrastructure creation & maintenance, to eol.

The argument put forward by Jeros was that smoking is a strain on the medical services & had an effect on children (& other people - I took that as an extension). I was merely taking his argument & applying it to something which causes just as much (if not more) harmful effects on people.

The counter argument could be that car's don't run in enclosed spaces (apart from car parks and garages) but then smokers don't get to smoke in enclosed spaces anymore either...

I'm not advocating that people should not drive - I'm merely using Jeros' argument to show that it is a flawed position. Unless you're prepared to accept the the government should crack down on everything that is harmful to yourself, other people etc then it is a restriction of personal choice to pick one group (who happen to be the current social leper du jour) while ignoring that other groups can cause the same (if not worse) issues.

If you want to ban smoking because you think people aren't capable of making a decision over whether or not it is harmful to them then people should say just that (I take exactly the same stance on drugs for the record). My personal opinion is that the more you restrict & take away choice and the need to make informed decisions (for their right or wrong) by people then the less they have to think and so the less they do think and the stupider they become.

BTW - horse and cart is a great way to get from A - B without damaging the environment Thor. Wont hurt people much either as they don't usually go fast enough to hit other people. Would need to find some way to clean up all the horse shit though.

Driving is a necessity for the world to function, in to days markets. It's not usually a choice for most people, it's a requirement if you want to work.

 

[~Latency~]

"If you want to ban smoking because you think people aren't capable of making a decision over whether or not it is harmful to them"


it IS harmful to them and everyone around them.. if smoking was banned you wouldn't have a whole generation of youths smoking just for something to do, one generation on and everyone would be a hell of a lot healthier

 

[Mabs]

i have no prob with them upping the tax on cigarettes. its about £6.20 a pack now or something

as long as beer goes up to about £5 a pint, spirits about £20 a litre minimum

or do alcohol related problems not cost the nhs anything suddenly ?


either your in favour of high tax for health, or your not, you dont get to pick and choose which one just cos u happen to be a piss head who doesnt smoke, sorry

<and before someone asks, im a currently ex-smoker, for the 5th time>

as for the OP about leaving - as cal said, not the best thing for you to do , and as for the sprained ankle - that can be sorted by a nurse whereas if you need a doctor you may well need to wait for one, its a pain, but its for the best. feel free to complain but bear in mind the fault is almost certainly a jobsworth who spends his day wanking over excel files that decided they didnt need X people on duty at Y place at Z time, and not the staffs fault

 

[tierk]

Driving is a necessity for the world to function, in to days markets. It's not usually a choice for most people, it's a requirement if you want to work.

Ok i like the way you have changed the earlier point you made, that your driving doesn't have any noticeable effect on peoples health - clearly a mistaken view - to a position now that its a necessity for the world to function.

Complete tosh, in the UK you have no need for a car, even with the rubbish public transport system. Buses and trains / tube go just about everywhere, they might not be convenient or comfortable but certainly adequate for people to go about their daily lives - work, shopping etc.

 

[Thorwyn]

If you want to ban smoking because you think people aren't capable of making a decision over whether or not it is harmful to them then people should say just that (I take exactly the same stance on drugs for the record). My personal opinion is that the more you restrict & take away choice and the need to make informed decisions (for their right or wrong) by people then the less they have to think and so the less they do think and the stupider they become.

That´s a perfectly valid and to an extend logical point of view and I must admit that I used to share this POV for quite a long time in the past. However, you can´t deny that it´s also quite nihilistic. Consequently, it would make more sense if people would not only have the decision over whether or not something is harmful to them, but also had to deal with the results by themselves i.e. pay for their own healthcare when they need it. And at this point, we´re suddenly discussing basic structures of our society.

@Mabs
Yes, the same is true for alcohol. In fact, alcohol is even worse, because it has a much higher level of cultural acceptance.

Maybe is the key word people forget.

You're maybe killing yourself with smoking.
You're maybe causing health care bills.

So, are you saying that smoking is not harmful for the body, or is this the "my grandma smoked 40 fags a day and died at the age of 90" example?

Why there's a government pressure and changes coming? It's popular and brings in easy votes.

I seriously doubt that. If it was that easy, they would have banned smoking LONG time ago. Stuff like that never scores easy votes, it always creates a wave of resistance and polemics. You should have seen the waves of outrage in the papers when they banned smoking in pubs here in Germany....
If anything, then the government makes this decision to distract the people from the real important events and decisions.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Sorry but me driving a car does not increase the chances of me or my passengers from getting a terminal disease.

I love how you mention morons driving yet you can't actually drive legally and you are all for people texting and being distracted while driving as long as you consider them a good driver, and they are distracted when it's not dangerous. rofl noob

No, it doesn't and my smoking doesn't increase the risk of peolpe close to me getting a terminal illness.

How do i know? I'm a considerate smoker.

Your other comment is neither here nor there, since that's not even my opinion. Learn to read before trying to flame.

So, are you saying that smoking is not harmful for the body, or is this the "my grandma smoked 40 fags a day and died at the age of 90" example?

Neither, i'm saying it might cause me terminal illness. Might.

To some it's a death sentence, to some it's nothing but a past time thing.

About the politics, you might be right on the distraction of it, but still it's just politics.

On another note;

I challenge anyone to point out how i would cause someone else harm by my smoking, INCLUDING how their driving etc activities do not.

- I make sure the smoke doesn't get in anyones face.
- I go outside for every single smoke, no matter the weather.
- I always ask if people mind me smoking, EVEN outside.

Just examples, so if anyone can show me how i blew cancer in someones lungs, go ahead, all ears. At the same time show me how you don't pollute with a car, how your drug using is "a-ok" and all those little things you conviniently forget when judging other peoples habits/lifestyle.

I'll say it again; inconsiderate people are the problem.

 

[Calaen]

Complete tosh, in the UK you have no need for a car, even with the rubbish public transport system. Buses and trains / tube go just about everywhere, they might not be convenient or comfortable but certainly adequate for people to go about their daily lives - work, shopping etc.

Adding an extra hour to my journey time in the morning and the evening? which means instead of a an 8 hour day it would be a 10 hour day? which means I would have to drop my child off at the creche even earlier than she is now? I would then have to pay for someone to collect and mind her because the creche closes at 6pm? Which equates to me not spending another 10 hours a week with her. Not tosh but a reality as to why I need a car for my day to day routine.

For a minority it might be adequate for the majority I suspect otherwise.

 

[Bugz]

I'm pretty sure alcohol & smoking (or atleast smoking) make more money in taxation than the cost they fracture the NHS with (excuse the pun). Someone threw the figures around on the forum a while back.

 

[Thorwyn]

Neither, i'm saying it might cause me terminal illness. Might.

To some it's a death sentence, to some it's nothing but a past time thing.

But the point of discussion (at least in my post which you replied to) was not the individual chances of getting ill, it was about the effects of smoking for the society and the healthcare system. And I think it´s hard to deny, that smoking does have an effect there.

Question:
If it was possible to find out (100% correctly) whether or not a certain illness is a result of smoking, would you still expect the healthcare system (i.e. other people) to pay for the treatment?

I'll say it again; inconsiderate people are the problem.

That´s true for both sides though. Many smokers are not as considerate as you are.


Another thought about the "choice" thing...
Starting to smoke is a free choice of course. But like most other drugs, there comes a point where addiction hits in and suddenly, the choice is not so free anymore. They may not *want* to damage themselves anymore, but they find it hard or impossible to stop it. That kind of sets the entire idea of making decisions and dealing with responsibilities into a new perspective.

I'm pretty sure alcohol & smoking (or atleast smoking) make more money in taxation than the cost they fracture the NHS with (excuse the pun). Someone threw the figures around on the forum a while back.

The figures sponsored by Benson&Hedges?

At any rate, I doubt that the figures and/or the calculations are correct. And if it´s INCLUDING alcohol, I`m almost sure they´re not.