ToA

[Bubble]

I hear so much from people about how ToA ruined the game. People complain about artifacts, they complain about master levels and how tough they are. They whine that abilitys like FZ/Demoralise ruined RvR, casters are soo OP because of there casting speed. others say they quit the game because of ToA...

What a load bullshit

The ToA expansion put loads and loads of content into the game, it also changed the class's giving them more interesting abilitys, made RvR more skillful, it also tried to Balance to Drak age of Assisting tank groups.

Shame people complained so much about it, getting your character ToAed used to take me weeks/months of farm the items i need, and it was worth it as well. Dinging ML10 and running raids were a great laugh, i meet tonnes of new people during my raids and had loads of fun. I was very disappointed after reading the 1.81 patch notes, they had basicly turned any difficult part of daoc into an easy mode, next thing that happens, your be able to buy your artys from a NPC.
I hear the expression "if you want to PvE, go play WoW" quite a bit, which tbh is quite ashame as personlly i enjoy ToA style PvE as much as i do PvP, daoc as a very different PvE system and can provide a real challenge.

I really hope the next expansion to Daoc is like ToA, something that will provide the community with a greater challenge to both PvP and PvE. To be honest Darkness rising was a massive disappointment, you basicly baught it to obtain a weapon (yeah you paid £15 for an in game item), at least ToA provided you with at least 2 years of entertainment.

 

[evzy]

Hey enjoy your opinion......thanks for shoving it on the rest of us

Personally as a player who doesnt get a great deal of online time...I prefer DR to TOA... but I aint gonna make a thread about it.

 

[Karl]

I quit because of ToA... it did ruin the game for me...

After ToA the divide between casual gamer and a gamer who could play 7 days a week was just to great...

If i want on constantly i either had 2 choices... work bloddy hard for 6-9 months doing MLs and Artifacts in the small ammount of time i did have online... where most of the hardcore gamers are getting these abilitys and really 0wning us in RvR... because we didnt have them so quickly... i liked RvR and didnt want to commit all the time to get MLs and Artifacts after all the time I had spent getting to 50 and templated (which took quite awhile pre Catacombs with no PLing). Or Quit.

As soon as ToA was out, my high RR well equiped character was useless in RvR... ToA wasnt difficult... it was just time consuming, time that a lot of people didnt have... especially if they had more then one lvl 50.

Classic FTW!

 

[Bahumat]

this is another one of them "i have an opinion and i will tell you all about it, then i will argue when you dont agree"

 

[Eleasias]

its great you enjoyed toa pve but most didnt

 

[Formash]

this is another one of them "i have an opinion and i will tell you all about it, then i will argue when you dont agree"

Exactly, nobody who will reply to this thread is 'wrong', its all PERSONAL opinion.

Personally i did a little with the TOA, even stuck it out till Catacombs, created a fresh toon and enjoyed it for a while, but as someone has said already, casual gamers don't really get a chance to progress as well as the hardcore gamers - so GOA or whoever create an expansion that the casual gamer can utilise.

They have to try and compromise for both types of person. IMO TOA was really for the hardcore gamer who wanted to push for master levels and extra stats on the armour.

I'm not complaining that im not a hardcore, or a casual gamer, or neither. I enjoyed how i played, there were new games coming along, i cancelled my subs and tried something new. In DAOC i only had 3x50's but i look back and think of the fun i had, but i moved on, just after catacombs came out.

I'm not slagging anyone off for their opinions because i understand the term 'each to their own' - i liked it till i didn't, and stopped.

The original poster is trying to blinker people into believing what HE wants them to believe. But we all know other people opinions are exactly that. only opinions

So Long and thanks for all the Phish

 

[bottler]

I hear so much from people about how ToA ruined the game. People complain about artifacts, they complain about master levels and how tough they are. They whine that abilitys like FZ/Demoralise ruined RvR, casters are soo OP because of there casting speed. others say they quit the game because of ToA...

What a load bullshit

The ToA expansion put loads and loads of content into the game, it also changed the class's giving them more interesting abilitys, made RvR more skillful, it also tried to Balance to Drak age of Assisting tank groups.

Shame people complained so much about it, getting your character ToAed used to take me weeks/months of farm the items i need, and it was worth it as well. Dinging ML10 and running raids were a great laugh, i meet tonnes of new people during my raids and had loads of fun. I was very disappointed after reading the 1.81 patch notes, they had basicly turned any difficult part of daoc into an easy mode, next thing that happens, your be able to buy your artys from a NPC.
I hear the expression "if you want to PvE, go play WoW" quite a bit, which tbh is quite ashame as personlly i enjoy ToA style PvE as much as i do PvP, daoc as a very different PvE system and can provide a real challenge.

I really hope the next expansion to Daoc is like ToA, something that will provide the community with a greater challenge to both PvP and PvE. To be honest Darkness rising was a massive disappointment, you basicly baught it to obtain a weapon (yeah you paid £15 for an in game item), at least ToA provided you with at least 2 years of entertainment.

Try wow or everquest 2, if u really like pve that much

Classic FTW TOA FTL

 

[DavidH]

I loved TOA too I miss the Golem Girls
Wish we could get another high level exp pack like TOA, only with PURE dungeons of fun raiding. Not "Must have" items or abilites. DAoC should really learn even more from EQ.
"Content is king!"

 

[Melachi]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think what you really enjoyed was having what others didn't. You had all the doors open for you, maybe through hard work but nevertheless they were there. You had everything at your finger tips. The only thing 1.81 has changed, is its opened the flood gates. ML's havent really been changed much, except for the item farming, but since ML3 nerf, thats really only been something raid leaders did usualy. Artifact encounters are pretty much the same, a few have been made easier, but they all still got done anyway, (eg most people didnt have trouble getting GoV credit, but they did have trouble getting a GoV). Scroll farming is gone, but I dont think anyone will miss that, except as a form of income.

Only thing you lost is your advantage, and I suppose you could say it was a reward for putting in extra effort, and this is part of MMORPGS, but when its like ToA was, where only 5% of the population were reaping the rewards, things are a little out of whack.


Bubble, nobody is stopping you farming encounters still, even though its esentially a little pointless, I dont see where anything has changed, except you can't feel as good about being the one of the few with such and such item/artifact.

Peace out, A town.

 

[Alan]

The mistake they made with ToA was the gains were necessary for RvR

If ToA rewards had the same power as CL rewards I bet people would have enjoyed the expansion better, not having to rush through the ML's just to compete.

I used to love leading ML raids but since spending time on the classic server I can say hand on heart ToA was a bad expansion (imo)

 

[Sparx]

i think DR has been better, i have found new love for my pally again

ToA is a headache for me. Raids are on at times i cant make etc. ToA def not for a casual gamer like me

 

[Karl]

 

[Calaen]

Dont actually play anymore which is a shame, but I enjoyed ToA and I was a casual gamer. I met lots of people I would not have and had a great laugh doing the raids.

 

[Bubble]

Bahumat feel free to leave yours, the only thing i have a problem with is forum trolls

If you hate ToA thats your oppinion, nothing wrong me me telling you why i loved it, hell it might make you think back to when you enjoyed attending raids, when you dinged ML10 and felt it was a good achievement.

This is a public forum, your welcome to post your oppinion here, if you agree with mine thats great, if you disagree thats also good.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I think what you really enjoyed was having what others didn't.

Sort of, i liked the fact that ToA wasn't a simple 1 day and your done thing, it took weeks to complete (your notice, some people have 1 ML10, others have 12 ML10, everyone normally gets these abilitys, takes some more time than others.

What i really mean is once ToA ML's and artifacts have been nerfed, thats going to leave a massive PvE gap in daoc, theres going to be nothing really special that a PvE guild can do, theres not enough high end PvE content as it is, but they will have ruined the last one left. While artifacts will be alot easier to get, it also takes away alot of the fun, such as artifact raids (i had to do Erinys around 12 time before i got it, its gunna be a little harsh to watch half the server equip it for 50gold when 1.81 go's live) there will be no arty raids in the future, nothing worth bring the public too. Selfish? i guess so.


I think most former golems really enjoyed alot of the feats we did, including getting to Apoc with only 12 people, taking down ML1.10 with only pets, chimera and typhon etc.

 

[Sendraks]

they had basicly turned any difficult part of daoc into an easy mode.

If you mean difficult in the sense that it ToA was incredibly time consuming, then yes, this aspect of the game has been removed.

Most of the basic priniciples of ToA I was fine with, but the time required was just silly and as other have already said, it just created a huge rift between more casual and hardcore players. Those who disliked the changes did so pretty much because they invested the time and effort and liked having an advantage over others. Thats fine, wanting to have an advantage is all well and good. The bad part is not wanting others to have an advantage, thats just sad really.

Those players who have had the time to do all the ToA content have had this advantage for the better part of two years now and its really long past the point where those players who can't afford to camp artifacts 24/7 missed out on a lot of the games content. I do think that a player should invest some time in the game to experience all the available content, but this need to be reasonable amount.

A lot of TOA content, the non-ML quests and a number of artifacts (providing they are not camped), can be done in a resonable time frame but that still leaves a lot of the expansion off limits. This essentially makes ToA a non-desirable purchase in hindsight.

A new PvE expansion would be great, but it needs to avoid making the mistake that ToA did in making the content a PvP pre-requisite which only serves to benefit the "1337 hardcore gamer" crowd. Providing more items across all the level ranges, from quests (more item rewards from quests full stop would be a start) and mobs that are alternatives to those already available is the way to go rather than a new range of "artifact" type items which render everything obsolete. Giving people more options, thus promoting more diversity in equipment set-ups is the way to go, rather than creating an expansion of "must have" items that resulted in everyone on the pad at the portal keep tryijng to look more or less identical dependant on their class.

At the least new item content from DR provides an option. The champion weapons are nice, both visually and terms of ability, but at least they only compare to the best drops in the game rather then being better than them. So at least there is some diversity in templates.

Plus they are not so time consuming to obtain and this is the most important thing. DAoC will not survive and will not attract new players if all they can see is that the better part of 2 years PvE is needed to be viable in RvR or have a toon with purty equipment.

thats going to leave a massive PvE gap in daoc, theres going to be nothing really special that a PvE guild can do, theres not enough high end PvE content as it is

Surely you can find ways to make ToA more challenging for yourselves? This is an opportunity to do things differently, rather than run with a tried and tested group set-up.

I realise that there could be more high end PvE content, but Mythic are trying to take DAoC in a direction that the majority of players want in order to stay competitive. That means making it easier to be viable in RvR and no 2 year slog to get items. Future PvE content needs to reflect that, but I do think there should is room for adding new PvE challenges that don't create the same problems for RvR. This is the either/or scenario of item drops again, rather than "must have" scenario that ToA created.

i had to do Erinys around 12 time before i got it, its gunna be a little harsh to watch half the server equip it for 50gold when 1.81 go's live) .

Why? Why is it going to be harsh? You had your fun getting it the hard way, others will have their fun just getting the damn thing at all.

 

[evzy]

I hear so much from people about how ToA ruined the game. People complain about artifacts, they complain about master levels and how tough they are. They whine that abilitys like FZ/Demoralise ruined RvR, casters are soo OP because of there casting speed. others say they quit the game because of ToA...

What a load bullshit.

Thats not an opinion...thats a statement...

Go check out another thread in this forum that people voted on favourite expansion so far - SI is leading that one by miles..

I think the problem with TOA is simply why should people who can afford to spend all their waking hours playing a game get to a point where they are so OP compared to the rest of us it just doesnt make it competitive. Would it be ok if they brought an expansion out that cost £500 that gave you new uber weapons - same principal. I think the best thing they have done is finally level the TOA playing field with the new patches - granted it is a bit late, few months after the "l33boi" players got the arti's and showed off with them, then it should have been brought it - not 2 expansions later - its a lot of time for a lot of people to be playing on a inferior basis..

Dont mind anyone having an opinion, just don't start by telling me what I and many others think is actually bull excrement.

 

[Bubble]

Just another thing.

How meny of you (mainly talking to Alb Prydwen ppl) ever considered me and Hargard to be hardcore gamers?

My Sorc is RR6l9, my cleric is 4l3 (i think). So i don't even have rr8's worth of exp, i have 3 ML10 characters, i dinged my first one ML10 a few months after most people during tears and co's raid. I took my time with ToA because i couldn't attend raids every evening, instead i did weekend raids.

 

[Bubble]

Dont mind anyone having an opinion, just don't start by telling me what I and many others think is actually bull excrement.

In my opinion it is..
Well the Bullshit is the whining caused the ToA nerf.. or maybe that was WoW being released...

I don't know you in game/don't know if you have completed your ML's or what type of gamer you are. But assuming you have completed serveral ML's, did you not enjoy these massive epic raids with 100+ people? I remember thinking the first time i did ML4.2 what a cool encounter it was, 300 Alb Prydwen V Much more mobs.

 

[Case]

No offence meant here bubble but you LOVE PvE where as a lot of people like me who LOVE RvR. All TOA did was mean we had to farm for countless hours in order to even have the chance of RvRing again. A lot of people did not have the time to commit that TOA required and left the game. TOA was the biggest mistake Mythic ever made by a long way.

 

[AngelHeal]

TOA ROX and i sox (thats leet for sucks btw get it hm?xD)

 

[Bubble]

Why? Why is it going to be harsh? You had your fun getting it the hard way, others will have their fun just getting the damn thing at all.

I ment harsh on people like myself waiting 12 weeks, killing it every sat, rolling and loosing, but being persistant and finally getting a really nice reward for my effort. You might say its a selfish opinion, it is, but i put alot of effort making my characters, i'm proud Bubble had at the time one of the best ToA suits, it took me almost a year to do, so i was happy to see my time and effort had paid off.

Surely you can find ways to make ToA more challenging for yourselves? This is an opportunity to do things differently, rather than run with a tried and tested group set-up.

We did we tried taking 1.10 with only Theurgist pets even tho people screamed at us not to do it because he lifetaps them.... he did, it took around 10 minutes of his health going up and down like a sorc being chain healed with 2 pre nerf damaged quad hittting him, but we did it.
That was fun and all, but we'd also like new challenging encounters like ML10.

Misc bits about the Time Consuming parts of ToA

The same could be said about SI, anyone from prydwen remember The Last Watch Sidi shop? 6+ hour long sidi raids finishing at 2am in the morning. I attended 2 of them in total yeah raids like ML3 were really annoying when we first tried them, i remember the egg and sword part taking hours and hours.

 

[Karl]

i had to do Erinys around 12 time before i got it, its gunna be a little harsh to watch half the server equip it for 50gold when 1.81 go's live

Unfortunatly... thats just how we felt...

It was a little harsh when we casual gamers had spent 6months leveling our character to 50 and getting equipment just to have another 6 months then placed infront of us while others raced ahead with ToA and have our characters completly useless compared to all the power gamers

 

[Sendraks]

But assuming you have completed serveral ML's, did you not enjoy these massive epic raids with 100+ people?

Not especially. Some of the encounters, where we were fighting bigger mobs like Talos, yes they were fun, but the majority of encounters were just not that interesting. ML3 in all its original splendor and glory was beyond tedious the first time I did it and having to do it many more times to actually complete it (due to bugs, shortage of time etc etc) didn't thrill me at all.

I enjoyed ML5 the most of all, because it could be done in a few hours and didn't need a lot of people to do it. I especially enjoyed managing the encounters in the dungeon so I could take a couple of groups through at once.

 

[Bubble]

No offence meant here bubble but you LOVE PvE where as a lot of people like me who LOVE RvR. All TOA did was mean we had to farm for countless hours in order to even have the chance of RvRing again. A lot of people did not have the time to commit that TOA required and left the game. TOA was the biggest mistake Mythic ever made by a long way.

No Offence taken, as i said i'm more than happy for other people to leave there opinions.

I understand alot of people wanted to rush it in order to compeat with the uber guilds like NP, PE etc who went straight through ToA as fast as possible.

I guess thats where my experience differs from other peoples, i didn't rush, i didn't have pressure from my guild to ding ML10, get ToA.
As a casual player i took my time and enjoyed the great expansion.

 

[Phoebee-v-]

You say that people whine to much about TOA?

I really admire you for backing TOA up with your signature.... that is somewhat strange

 

[elbeek]

blahblahblah.

If TOA was THAT good, why are you playing Glast?

 

[Grimnna]

__________________
Now Playing Hib/Glastonbury

Bubble 0X Hero

This made me laugh sooooo loud after that ToA-advertisement you posted....

Thanks... <chuckles>

 

[Sendraks]

I ment harsh on people like myself waiting 12 weeks, killing it every sat, rolling and loosing, but being persistant and finally getting a really nice reward for my effort. You might say its a selfish opinion, it is, but i put alot of effort making my characters, i'm proud Bubble had at the time one of the best ToA suits, it took me almost a year to do, so i was happy to see my time and effort had paid off.

This goes some way to supporting the argument that you don't want other players to have what you've got.

Ultimately if you put a lot of effort into making your characters, then focus on being proud of that and the fact that your efforts meant that you were months ahead of those players who didn't have the time to be able to kill the mob every saturday for 12 weeks. Be proud of that, I would be it, it is a real achievement.

Other players, such as myself, simply can't achieve what you did. Not due to any lack of skill, but we simply don't have the time. Begruding us access to the same equipment you have, by making the content doable in a timescale that is more suitable to our timescale is just petty and selfish. Its hardly a great argument for having more content like ToA as all it really barrells down to is you and a small percentage of the population having access to content other players don't.

 

[Case]

What TOA meant to me.. I had to shelf my RR6 minstrel, RR5 paladin and RR4 infil so that I could get them TOA'd. Then realised tanks were useless so had to get my Cabalist TOA'd. After over a year of TOA I finally got my cabby to RR6. I can honestly say I hated nearly every minute of PvE I was forced to do because without XYZ ability or artifact you could not compete.

 

[GReaper]

The original ToA did have a major affect on the game, quite a negative one for many people. Please consider the many problems which people faced before all the changes over the past few years to ToA.

Remember when people had to level each artifact in its own area of ToA before all the artifact exp changes? It took me between 8-10 hours to level up Jacina's Sash to level 10. Was this fun? No.

The game needs a balance between challenge, fun and timesinks. If the game feels more like a second job when you get back from school/work, then there are far too many boring timesinks. Levelling up some of the artifacts before all the changes actually made DAoC feel like a second job for me, instead of something I played for fun.