TOA - Teh Nerf!

Pin

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http://www.camelotherald.com/more/1329.shtml

Trials of Atlantis Object Changes
Posted By: Matt Firor 2004-02-12 17:10:50

When Trials of Atlantis was in development, we made it possible to buff casting speed, melee speed, style damage, regular damage, accuracy, and more for the first time. The short term testing looked good - new content and new strategies were intended elements of the expansion, and it seemed that we had accomplished the goal. However, there was another goal for the expansion - characters with the new items and the new buffs would be very group friendly, and on an individual level, a small percentage more powerful than before.

To be specific, here are the Trials of Atlantis specific buffs that we are talking about:

- casting, melee, and archery damage bonus
- casting, melee, and archery speed
- casting and archery range
- casting, melee, and archery accuracy

We had a strict design goal for how much more powerful players that possess these objects would be. Frankly speaking, what we designed and what ended up in the game are far far apart - a player with even one or two artifacts is much stronger than we intended, and that's not even counting the Unique Objects, regular dropped objects, or even master levels. Many Artifacts and other powerful items in ToA are on the order of 30-50% more powerful than we intended - and many of those items stack together. This is a power inflation that cannot be ignored.

So, here is the situation: players who don't have the expansion are justifiably upset that they can no longer compete with those that bought the expansion and have acquired powerful items from it - and players that have the expansion are rapidly becoming so powerful that small groups of players can successfully defeat even the game's most powerful monsters, and are extremely overpowered in RvR. Because of this, and for the sake of the integrity and balance of the game, we must make changes to many ToA items. We know that this is not a small trivial thing. It will affect everyone who bought the expansion, adventured, and acquired Artifacts or other overpowered items from it. We apologize for the trouble and pain this will cause you - but we simply cannot have such powerful items in the game.

As we told you here on the Herald a few days ago, on Pendragon we have already lowered the hard cap on buffs your player receives to these new ToA bonuses. Previously the cap was 25%, now it is 10%. This means that no matter how many objects you have equipped, you can receive only 10% bonus to those ToA buffs. This leaves us in a situation where you can reach your cap with only one Artifact, since many have bonuses of 10%. Also, some Unique and regularly dropped items have 10% bonuses as well, and some have even more, up to 20%.

Because of this, we are rebalancing all of the Artifacts and powerful dropped items to reduce the amount of bonus for the following ToA specific buffs. After the rebalancing, artifacts will not have more than a 5% bonus to any of those new ToA buffs. To compensate, we will be increasing other bonuses on each Artifact and on some high-level dropped items. Unique Objects will have their bonuses to attack/cast haste, accuracy, and damage taken down by half with a hard cap of 4% (i.e. each one with more than 8% bonus will have 4% bonus after the conversion), and from this point on, no Unique item will drop with a bonus to these ToA specific buffs. We will give you a complete list of all Artifacts and their newly adjusted bonuses in tomorrow's Pendragon patch notes, as well as some other high-level dropped items that are affected by these changes.

After this change is implemented, everyone that has an Artifact, Unique Object, or dropped item in their inventories that is subject to be rebalanced will have their items converted to the new system. Some of these changes will take place in today's Pendragon update, the rest will go into tomorrow's Pendragon version. All these changes, as well as the rest of 1.68, will go live next week.

So why did it take us so long to recognize and address this problem? Some feedback is easy for developers to respond to. A single item, the way a particular encounter completes - these things are simple. We read your feedback, we discuss it with the original designer, and the change goes into the next patch. Unfortunately, not all feedback is as easily dealt with by our team. It is impossible to respond to everything with such speed and efficiency. For example, when dealing with feedback about an entire system it is impossible to assess the long-term damage if the feedback is shown to be correct. When players provide feedback on the long term results of an entire game system, we still read it - but we cannot respond immediately. It is not possible to make fundamental changes to a total system overnight, and it would be a terrible bad idea if we tried to attempt to do so in this game - even if we could.

Part of game design involves extrapolating results from limited information. When we talk about changing a system, we need to take the data we didn't have before and extrapolate from there. Since early November, we've been listening to your feedback on the system of items, artifacts, and buffs that we introduced with ToA. Simply put, you like the content, and you hate the way that content changed the dynamic of power in Dark Age of Camelot, especially in terms of its effects on RvR combat.

So, since around that time, we have been watching the feedback and the many discussions, and taking the information you've given us to extrapolate the future playability of Camelot for both RvR and high-level PvE. We have come to the inescapable conclusion that the system of new items and buffs had to be completely redone. If we fail to do so now, the problems will only get worse as more people acquire artifacts and abilities. Simply put, it means bad things for the future of the game if steps are not taken immediately. The first step was posted in 1.68D, where we introduced new caps to the newly buffable game stats.

Mythic is dedicated to the long-term future of Dark Age of Camelot. We are focusing all Camelot developers on making a great game even better with our next subscription expansion: New Frontiers. We must bring Trials of Atlantis in line with the rest of the game before the release of New Frontiers or our work on it would be meaningless. We apologize for not being able to do this sooner, and we wish that we didn't have to do it. It is never easy telling a dedicated community that some things must change and that they have to change immediately. As players ourselves, we know all too well how frustrating balances changes like these are. We hope that you can see that this rebalancing is the culmination of months of discussion and calculations, and that the only reason we took so much time was to ensure that we make only the necessary adjustments to avoid any future changes.

We cannot express how grateful we are to our players who participated in the feedback process and convinced us that this is the best thing we can do for the game world that we share. Again, we truly regret having to do this - having an imbalance of this type in Dark Age of Camelot is unacceptable, and we will be taking steps to ensure that it never happens again.
 

Moo

Fledgling Freddie
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http://www.camelotherald.com/more/1329.shtml

that all boils down to this mythic plan:

We make an expansion that gives ub0r items so loads of ppl go out and buy it.
We wait a bit for almost everyone to buy it because they can't compete...
then we nerf those items to fuck so that the people who didn't go out and buy don't quit too.

Thus we win the money of
1) those people who like the toa idea (fair enuff)
2) those people who like the idea of getting leet itamz to whup ass
3) those people who dont like toa but got it because they couldnt compete
4) those people who did not get toa but didn't quit because we nerfed it to fuck


gj mythic. - wait for everyone to buy it before nerfing!
 

Fangrim

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Moo - Mythic don't need to make uber-items to get ppl to buy ToA. They made something, and didn't realize the impact it would have. So they're changing it. I'd rather have this happen than having this ending up like EQ. I don't care about the uber items - they're secondary to the new adventure awaiting. Of course they're nice, but tbh. I can get most ToA drops made by SC'ing - only thing that'd lack was the nifty gfx and glowies...

You haven't even bought ToA yet, so why the whining?
 

Kalba

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Moo, Mythic is well known of fuck ups that they didnt have guts to admit, now they admitted and are doing something, rather fast also. :p

I find it really nice that they tell that "we fucked this up totally and are sorry about it" not just "The artifacts in trials of atlantis will be adjusted, before adjustement ---> working as intended"

right? ;)
 

Behmoth

Fledgling Freddie
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:kissit: at mythic why o why can they do nothing right ?
 

Divinia

One of Freddy's beloved
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Behmoth said:
:kissit: at mythic why o why can they do nothing right ?
they obviously made something right when they made daoc, hence the playerbase?
 

Nalistah

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everything will get nerfed to hell.... they can already remove teh whole ToA-thing :m00:
 

Czaedes

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Seems very nice in my opinion. Too bad we have to live with a "broken" ToA a good while ;/

However I suppose many won't be arsed to PvE just as much as US now as we know what's coming, so we will probably not get the same imabalance in RvR. But still... Rather see us wait for ToA until GOA patches to 1.68.
 

Auriel

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Thanks goodness I say! :D I'd much rather ToA was about having some fun adventures and finding pretty trinkets than worry about RvR performance so much.
 

Moo

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dont get me wrong im not saying they shouldnt have nerfed it

it just seems a bit nice for mythic that they didint realise all these things would effect rvr 'much' when any reasonably trained gibbon could have told them otherwise - and so they nerf after people buy...
 

Ctuchik

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Moo: its not a few items thats gonna get fixed if i understood the post right.... its a freaking shedload of items.. thats why its been taking so "long" to get the fix started...

as far as i have understood anyway..
 

Wildfire

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Why are you complaining?

a) you havent bought it yet
b) you can plan your SC outfits not to go above 10% bonuses

No-one's wasted YOUR time yet have they.
 

censi

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hands up if your MR perfect and never got anything wrong..

Theres nothing scandelous here it just shows that they realised things were a bit unbalanced and have reviewed the data and made common sense changes.

The game is constantly under review, TOA was a major change and the fact that issues are being discovered and addressed is nothing to panic over guys..

Enjoy TOA its gonna be good fun. (and not overpowered!) :)
 

Powahhh

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Fangrim said:
Moo - Mythic don't need to make uber-items to get ppl to buy ToA. They made something, and didn't realize the impact it would have. So they're changing it. I'd rather have this happen than having this ending up like EQ. I don't care about the uber items - they're secondary to the new adventure awaiting. Of course they're nice, but tbh. I can get most ToA drops made by SC'ing - only thing that'd lack was the nifty gfx and glowies...

You haven't even bought ToA yet, so why the whining?
i think you miss the point in moo's post...
mythix said toa won't affect rvr in fg vs fg or stealthwars
but they did it....
that's why so much nerf's...stealth lore nerf (after realising that they fuck 6 classes of the game)
new buff nerfs (for god sake they didn't have minds to think that a +2x melee dmg WILL AFFECT DRAMATICALY [sp?] the rvr?)
and so on so on
moo says that mythic made a broken expansion to MAKE us buy cause without toa 99% of players CAN'T COMPETE ...and all of sudden they realise the obvious....they have fuck it....
do not illusion yourself saying that mythic doesn't know this things....they KNEW it from the beggining and they do a very low and stupid marketing trick....and now one apologize can rip all the pain off....

asking me if other companies fall into marketing tricks i would say that yes all game companies look in their "pockets" but some companies do it soooo obvious.....

i think we own a big thanks to americans and to their massive close accounts that make mythic realise that we are not just a bounch of cows....


ps. imo mythic is the worster of all companies that have produce a MMORPG.....by far (IMO ofc) and you know why?
they think : give them a toon to play 2-3-4 months so we will took their money..then send them the Mr Nerf so the other 50% of the players won't quit..and give THEM a toon to play 2-3-4 months and so on so on......
ps1. even EQ do not look thaaaaaaaaat stupid...even eq
 

censi

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just quit then its only a computer game.

Some people arnt so cynical as you and believe that maybe they just doing their jobs at balancing a game for good of the community.

its usually fotm'ers that moan about this stuff anyway.

those that play the game for what it is dont mind this sort of thing.
 

Meduza

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Moo said:
http://www.camelotherald.com/more/1329.shtml

that all boils down to this mythic plan:

We make an expansion that gives ub0r items so loads of ppl go out and buy it.
We wait a bit for almost everyone to buy it because they can't compete...
then we nerf those items to fuck so that the people who didn't go out and buy don't quit too.
kinda sums it all up :)
 

Meduza

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censi said:
just quit then its only a computer game.

Some people arnt so cynical as you and believe that maybe they just doing their jobs at balancing a game for good of the community.

its usually fotm'ers that moan about this stuff anyway.

those that play the game for what it is dont mind this sort of thing.
yea... and we all live in "la la"-land where no1 think about profit and shit... wake up, fool!

but true, quit if we dont like it... thats true however, but dont delude urself thinking Mythic didnt know about this! As Nalistah (da biatch) said, even a 6 year old crack head could figure out this would affect rvr greatly!!!
 

Bracken

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So they made a screw up. They're admitting it and putting it right. End of story.
 

censi

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yea... and we all live in "la la"-land where no1 think about profit and shit... wake up, fool!

but true, quit if we dont like it... thats true however, but dont delude urself thinking Mythic didnt know about this! As Nalistah (da biatch) said, even a 6 year old crack head could figure out this would affect rvr greatly!!!QUOTE]

Like I said only fotm's really get pissed by all this. its quite funny that you seriously think its a conspiracy or summin. That its actually good business to revert patches in this manner. but yer ok whatever

if you were the type of person buying TOA cuz of 25% pwnage then yes your not gonna like it. If you were the type of person looking forward to TOA cuz it adds new dimensions to the gameplay then this changes nothing.
 

Raven

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well imo its good that we know now not 2 months down the line or so, at least we have got the chance to build SC temps around the nerfed/fixed (whatever) items.

mythic made a mss of toa, they are fixing it and for the first time that i know of they have been totally honest and said exactly that, we messed up, sorry
 

Moo

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Wildfire said:
Why are you complaining?

a) you havent bought it yet
b) you can plan your SC outfits not to go above 10% bonuses

No-one's wasted YOUR time yet have they.
except you, you wasted my time by making me read your drivel
 

Lejemorder

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Raven said:
mythic made a mss of toa, they are fixing it and for the first time that i know of they have been totally honest and said exactly that, we messed up, sorry
:clap: :clap: :clap:

and to powah why dont u go and play another game if u h8 mysthic that much??
 

katt!

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Meduza said:
yea... and we all live in "la la"-land where no1 think about profit and shit... wake up, fool!

but true, quit if we dont like it... thats true however, but dont delude urself thinking Mythic didnt know about this! As Nalistah (da biatch) said, even a 6 year old crack head could figure out this would affect rvr greatly!!!
tbh i dont think mythic gets a whole lot of cash from the $25 the box costs, their profit comes from subscriptions.
 

Chilly

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thats a mighty fine scam from mythic, i applaud them on deviousness tbh.
 

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