Toa didn't ruin Daoc

[Kuja]

I've come to a conclusion that ToA is so much fun, finally casters get some lovin, sorcs ranged CC stands a chance against insta with the new +casting speed %.

But more to the point of the thread, I believe that the expansion hasn't ruined the game, we have. I fail to see how we can defeat the hibs and mids if we fight among ourselves.

Why must people sells scrolls for stupid amounts of gold? Would some 1 really be able to farm a place like DF for 4 hours and earn say 20p for a scroll.. doesnt make sense. If there is a scroll I really want, can get it within a day...but cant make the gold for this. Wouldnt it be wise if people sold artis and scrolls cheap? Therefore people dont have to spend days farming..when they cud be in RvR...Its stupid.

Greed is making the game harder for us to compete. Take today for example. Trying to get Traldors for my sorc, started the raid part moved chars to temple started killing mobs inside. Necro came along saw I was trying to traldors. Then I died ( stupid necro pets ) . He asked if i was on my way back, or if he could kill. B4 I died I already notcied he had traldors.. Kindly he was going to allow me to go back. He then afford to sell the scroll to me..not too keen on the idea..sed sorc needs credit. Afford to sell for 200g, thought wow saves me moving necro back, also don't want to be locked outside temple. So took sorc back..got there and was another sorc there and a BB. joined the group and now was told the arti was being rolled for..also this other sorc had Tartaros Gift..I realise they both may have been getting to a friend/guildie..if not they want to sell.. I partictulary find this greedy and I wasn't best pleased I was messed about and spent my time getting the temple open only to have had the arti taken from my grasp.

I know saying this isnt going to make every1 drop their CM scrolls down to 10g...but to be frank the less people that are running around like headless chickens trying to get scrolls and artis, the more that will be out in RvR.

 

[Chrystina]

I totally agree ... scroll prices make us lose against hibs/mids in RvR ... no doubt about that!

 

[leviathane]

just greed in general tbh, when ppl farm a certain arti several times over which they don't need, whilst people who need it have to wait ages for it to repop in some cases.

 

[Ingafgrinn Macabre]

Even though I'm not an arthur follower I totally agree.... but on the other side if the water it's just thesame... Healing embrace was on CM a while ago for 30p....

 

[Prothoe]

Wouldnt it be wise if people sold artis and scrolls cheap? Therefore people dont have to spend days farming..when they cud be in RvR...Its stupid.

err .. no ?
its called supply and demand , welcome to the real world Kuja

 

[Svavel]

Thought it was a game.. :eek2:

 

[Prothoe]

Yep, sure its just a game Svavel , but would you you be prepared to spend days (in real life time) farming for an item + missing out on alot of RvR fun to sell a scroll at a low price?
What would be someones motivation to log onto DAoC and do this?
Just think for a second what you are talking about here, if Mythic set a "ceiling" price for all items / scrolls and you could not price it higher on your CM than that, there would be alot "less" items available on housing , people would only farm for themselves and friends.
At a very basic level this is capatalism vs communism.
Not saying your ideas are wrong Kuja , i sure would like to spend my time in RvR while someone else farms for me :>
Anyway im off to smoke some weed and listen to John Lennon 'Imagine'

 

[willowywicca]

Tbh high prices aren't an issue, since it's just a medium to simplify the bartering process.. sure that scroll you may want may cost 10p (omg!) but then all the scrolls you have are also worth high amounts, so you sell them then buy your scroll.. if the scroll you wanted had cost 1p and all your scrolls were similarily 1/10th price... you'd still have to sell em all anyway to afford that 1p "cheap" scroll...

All toa has done is lower the value of money by making it far far easier to get... this doesn't actually mean it's tougher now to buy stuff, in fact I'd argue it's easier than ever to get loads of money.

On the matter of people camping/stealing artifacts jsut to sell.. that is something I think we could do with seeing less of ><

 

[Enariol]

I think I know who the sorc with Tartaros & BB was, and if I'm right he's redoing his template with Traldor's. Don't be too quick on judging people, goes for everyone and every situation

 

[Devaster]

Tbh high prices aren't an issue, since it's just a medium to simplify the bartering process.. sure that scroll you may want may cost 10p (omg!)

yer 10p tyrus scroll on u'r CM was qq irl
but then again toa offered me the oportunity to earn loads of cash fast and easy so those 10p i spent tend to 0 comparing the overall income.

the other thing is some ppl are just to lazy or hopeless to benefit of TOA saying omg! wtf are these prices ? im sure the owner of this house meant gold piecies but clicked wrong button!

If u want everything, fast and cheap this game isnt anymore for you, the times when u could pwl a char in 2 days make him 99%sc capping everything and go pwn pwn is over.

 

[Krissy]

On a side note about scroll prices :

Scroll prices may be high but this is due to lazy albs. No excuses for it. Albion has lots of Matter speced Cabalists, Paladins, Minstrels, which are fantastic classes for farming with specialy when you add a BuffBot. So imo theres no excuses here, scroll prices are down to albs being lazy, if it wasnt then the prices would drop as many would farm their own scrolls and crash the market.

Greed may be the end result but being lazy is the catylist.

 

[NeonBlue]

sorcs ranged CC stands a chance against insta with the new +casting speed %.

zzzzzz!

 

[leviathane]

aye but you also need a buffbot to do that bit buggered if you don't, have to rely on help.

 

[fortunefish]

grrrr

prothoe stop flameing him/her

i mean an argument is an argument but dude thats just rude

/slap and grow up please


wub to the victim :wub:

 

[Prothoe]

grrrr

prothoe stop flameing him/her

i mean an argument is an argument but dude thats just rude

/slap and grow up please


wub to the victim :wub:

I was hardly flaming her or being rude

cant see any arguments on this thread, just a discussion about ToA prices

/slap and get over yourself please :touch:

 

[Smellysox]

I agree they are high BUT ive seen them lower as the weeks have gone past im sure in 3 months time as more scrolls come to drop and ppl dont need them eg - like battler and malice artifacts then ppl will do like i do check market explorer and try to sell scrolls cheaper to get rid of them ... its simple if its to high to buy go get it yourelf : ) another example is zahurs ring the quest is easy and seen ring drop lots but 50 p on cm for a ring ? <LOL> :kissit:

 

[Doink-666]

agree to a certain extent, nean as far as scrolls is concerned....but casters getting loveing? well yeah ur right but have you taken into account how much? this goes for more than caster.

For e.g a few nights back went to go lvl Khaos...ran through amg Odins to find what, a SM sitting the other side with 4 brittle gaurds+spirit warrior?????!!! oh that was before i ran through his trap between doors that instantly took 600 hp of me \o/

So in this case we have a Spiritmaster that has 5 intercepting pets for him plus ofc the trap The SM is just an example of mine ofc, but imo the ppl behind ToA had one to many cocktails at certain points

It was said Master Levels would not effect RvR ...yes of course it never

 

[nerfbbs]

Supply and Demand

Glad to see this issue has been addressed in WoW - farming guilds wont be able to function in WoW cos rare drops will bind to the person who gets them (that's at least 1 alb giuld out of business [mentioning no names]).

If u look on certain cm's u will see vaults full of stuff that many ppl want u will also see certain guilds' lvl 20 - 30 alts running around with epic drops etc.

Really would like to know what ppl do with hundreds of plat tho when they got evrything.

ToA did totally screw up the crafting system tho - what was the point of spending so much time skilling up when ppl can just go get a drop that cant be made by a crafter - my LGM WC just makes legendary wepons now and doesnt charge for that.



Any rare drops i get go to guild mates for free if they need them and I also gave at least 1 item to Darkils iirc cos it was something he really wanted unfortunately the introduction of bb's and solo classes as overpowered as necros has encouraged a culture of selfish that wasn't part of the original game.

Yerk - Cab since way b4 they were fotm RR4.1 LGM Tailor
Xerk - Reaver cos i love havinf to use 5 qbars rr3.6 LGM Alch
Yeeeeerk - mind sorc who still w8ing for a tank to bodyguard me properly 850 SC
Parboiled - Pala cos so many noobs need end regen LGM AC
Yerkette - my necro crafting fundraiser
Goneorhere - WC mule
Upyabum - spare vault space

 

[mirieth!]

Greed may be the end result but being lazy is the catylist.

signed.

 

[Event]

This overpricing is the same on mid.

Some gear is rarer or harder to obtain and thus supply and demand obviously come into play. However people also demand high prices in order to pay for equally highly priced items. It is a vicious circle of consumption. This upward spiral can only come from one place imo - the fact that in some warped way some players equate gold with real money and experience pleasure when they look apon their stash.

Kinda silly

 

[Yussef]

Next generation MMORPG's are implementing too much instancing in my opinion at least. I think the economy would suffer when mobs are being perma chain killed by the server limit (possibly), without any competition either.

Anyway, guilds who are unorganised or not able to beat xxx encounter won't be getting that loot, so it is a double edged sword and you'll wish that you could buy them after.

 

[Krissy]

Farming isnt the problem with daoc as ive said, its lazy people playing the game in the first place. Cant get anywhere if you dont put in the work

Guilds that do farm together as a whole/broken down in to smaller sections will often find the've had a better experiance in the game and experianced more, as well as formed small communities that normaly last beyond the game they were made in themselfs (EQ for example).

Farming isnt anything to do with the "decline" of daoc, infact I dont see a decline, im having more fun currently in daoc than ive had since I first hit 50 at release (obviously lvling to 50 for the first time with people I liked was just the best, such an inocent age ).

Lazyness breeds discontent people, which in turn infect others with their very depressing attitudes, which in turn focus's on certain individuals/groups of people to vent their frustrations.

If you are bored of daoc, or dont like something about it thats changable, put in some work, break a sweat and often your find results within a week (sound like a exercise/beauty advert ).

I do hope that prices drop, threads like this wont do it though, getting up and making a difference yourselfs will. I do hope people can understand that although they are only one, they have the power to change the way others see things for the better

 

[Revz]

Glad to see this issue has been addressed in WoW - farming guilds wont be able to function in WoW cos rare drops will bind to the person who gets them (that's at least 1 alb giuld out of business [mentioning no names]).

A little more stupidity like this and the thread will be almost complete. For starters "binds when equipped" in WoW only comes into play when you equip an item (put it into a slot on your character). You can carry it around and trade it all you like before that point; if anything that makes loot of that sort even more rare and valuable. Furthermore have you actually played a game with heavy restrictions on loot trading (such as NO DROP or LORE to use EQ examples)? Instead of trading the loot itself people will purchase "loot rights" instead. Sure it is a little more inconvienient but if you really want uber_item_634 then you simply pay to tag along on a guilds raid and loot the item if it drops.

Beyond that the guilds getting the top items will have more than enough cash anyway due to the fact that they have the most active players on the server. Would you prefer NO DROP items rotted after they weren't needed anymore by a guild or were sold on to casual players? All that would do is keep good items out of the hands of 90% of the server for a much longer period (fine by me but it seems to go against the vibe of your post). Selling drops is simply a more convenient way of leveraging the laziness of a server; that doesn't mean people aren't willing to raise cash in other ways, they just take the path of least resistance.

If u look on certain cm's u will see vaults full of stuff that many ppl want u will also see certain guilds' lvl 20 - 30 alts running around with epic drops etc.

If you find this offensive now then imagine how much more it will happen when you can't trade loot. It either rots or guild members bring their alts along to get the item instead.

ToA did totally screw up the crafting system tho - what was the point of spending so much time skilling up when ppl can just go get a drop that cant be made by a crafter - my LGM WC just makes legendary wepons now and doesnt charge for that.

Dropped items should always be better than crafted items. You can limit the rate at which uber dropped items enter the economy but not the rate at which player crafted ones do (unless they require dropped crafting components but in that case they are basically the same as drops). Adding spellcrafting so early on effectively broke the game for a massive period of time and trivialised almost all of the content. It seems to be getting back on a slightly more even keel now with drops being better in most cases.

 

[Revz]

Some gear is rarer or harder to obtain and thus supply and demand obviously come into play. However people also demand high prices in order to pay for equally highly priced items. It is a vicious circle of consumption. This upward spiral can only come from one place imo - the fact that in some warped way some players equate gold with real money and experience pleasure when they look apon their stash.

The high prices are exactly related to the amount of cash in circulation and hence the age of the server. This is what happens when you have an economy with lots of places where money enters and few where it leaves Comparitively uber drops used to sell for 1-2p a few months after launch because no one had any more money than that. 20p was more than most guilds had collectively let alone an individual.

I can tell you now that if prices dropped suddenly a few relatively rich people would simply sweep up everything that was for sale and impose their own prices. This exact situation happend on an EQ server where a bug was discovered that let you get hold of (virtually) unlimited quantities of money in a very short space of time. The few people who knew of this bought up every single high end item they could find no matter what the asking price and effectively crippled the economy of the server in one night

 

[Bubble]

I think Krissy summed it up nicely

If no one was willing to pay 20plat for Mad tales 3. You wouldn't find it on CM's for that price. I remember Tart3 being sold for 20+plat and suddenly becoming the rarest scroll ever.

(Tbh items like Zahurs ring are the best item for that slot in the game, theres nothing better, so people are willing to spend 30+ plat on a item they know they will not have to replace for a long time, also i don't know why someone would want to sell one in the first place)

 

[nerfbbs]

A little more stupidity like this and the thread will be almost complete. For starters "binds when equipped" in WoW only comes into play when you equip an item (put it into a slot on your character). You can carry it around and trade it all you like before that point; if anything that makes loot of that sort even more rare and valuable. Furthermore have you actually played a game with heavy restrictions on loot trading (such as NO DROP or LORE to use EQ examples)? Instead of trading the loot itself people will purchase "loot rights" instead. Sure it is a little more inconvienient but if you really want uber_item_634 then you simply pay to tag along on a guilds raid and loot the item if it drops.

Beyond that the guilds getting the top items will have more than enough cash anyway due to the fact that they have the most active players on the server. Would you prefer NO DROP items rotted after they weren't needed anymore by a guild or were sold on to casual players? All that would do is keep good items out of the hands of 90% of the server for a much longer period (fine by me but it seems to go against the vibe of your post). Selling drops is simply a more convenient way of leveraging the laziness of a server; that doesn't mean people aren't willing to raise cash in other ways, they just take the path of least resistance.



If you find this offensive now then imagine how much more it will happen when you can't trade loot. It either rots or guild members bring their alts along to get the item instead.



Dropped items should always be better than crafted items. You can limit the rate at which uber dropped items enter the economy but not the rate at which player crafted ones do (unless they require dropped crafting components but in that case they are basically the same as drops). Adding spellcrafting so early on effectively broke the game for a massive period of time and trivialised almost all of the content. It seems to be getting back on a slightly more even keel now with drops being better in most cases.

Well leaving aside the personal insult the WoW system doesnt bind on equip but binds on drop according to the release notes i've been reading and cannot be sold precisely because they dont want a few people to have a huge impact on the whole economy.

If crafting was supposed to be nerfed then why do they make it so difficult to get to high lvl craft status knowing that u have no chance of making anything out of it? ( the amount of time i spent crafting knocks the laziness idea on the head)

Always nice to see that ppl who pm insults to other members ingame for 'stealing their camp spots' defending the status quo.
In the 'real world' the money wasn't made by the miners and prospectorss but by the service providers, also in the real world economies have been ruined by monopolies and oligopolies which is why there are laws against it - the CoC says ppl cant claim a zone for themselves but can only claim mobs they have pulled - be interesting to see what happened if people started doing that tho.

By the way I still havent mentioned the name of a 'farming guild' be interesting if ppl reading this thread cud guess :kissit:

 

[Tristessa]

I can accept the fact that some peeps farm scrolls to make money. Heck I even farm some solo-easy scrolls from time to time when Im broke. But when you see an artifact, not the crappy ones but something like shades of mist which is pretty much the No1 cloak everyone wants, being sold on a CM, I dont know about you but I just want to bash my PC when I think of how ppl will 24/7 camp such rare artifacts just to make a buck when there are other players that want em. And their reflexes are amazing. The moment you're in clipping range - insta pm *Camped*. Not to mention the ludicrous prices that go over 60p for that one. Dont know who's lot that is and apologize if it belongs to anyone here, but hey Give us all a break

 

[Lexa]

Funny thing is the people that really want these rare items these days are either alts (we will ignore them for now) or mains with little time on there hands.

Personally I used to be unemployed and played DaoC for an unhealthy amount of hours a day. If I wanted a drop I would go get it in the hours when the server was quite. Now life is different I get to play for a few hours a day if im lucky and want to get certain items. Simply put its impossible to get everything in the time I have so I am forced to buy things, unfortunatly I don't have time to farm the cash (unless im missing a new way to make loads of cash, have been away for a few months) So those people selling things like SoM for 80 plat (yes 80) can only be aiming at hardcore players, thing is those hardcore players will just go farm it for themselves so I have to wonder whats the point.

Anyway my struggle continues and I will happily ignore any player that says *camped* these days simply cause its become irrelevant, the days of co-operation and politness seem to have become limited. With so many competing for so little harshness is bound to erupt. Imo that is what ToA has done to this game, made the realms compete with themselves instead of with each other.

P.S. good luck to the one selling SoM for 80 plat

 

[willowywicca]

agree to a certain extent, nean as far as scrolls is concerned....but casters getting loveing? well yeah ur right but have you taken into account how much? this goes for more than caster.

For e.g a few nights back went to go lvl Khaos...ran through amg Odins to find what, a SM sitting the other side with 4 brittle gaurds+spirit warrior?????!!! oh that was before i ran through his trap between doors that instantly took 600 hp of me \o/

So in this case we have a Spiritmaster that has 5 intercepting pets for him plus ofc the trap The SM is just an example of mine ofc, but imo the ppl behind ToA had one to many cocktails at certain points

It was said Master Levels would not effect RvR ...yes of course it never

And as a tank (assuming you are one, I dunno really) you can counter his MLs with yours.. use some of the BM ae styles on him (eg the power draining style). Sure his pets will intercept, but the style is ae so will interupt him anyway (and drain him of power if that's the one you used).. Or if you're BL you should have no trouble keeping him interupted for agessss.. Also bear in mind that to have 4 brittles it means he's been camping there for 15mins + without being attacked >< So think of them as him slowly fortifying his position over time!

 

[Revz]

Well leaving aside the personal insult the WoW system doesnt bind on equip but binds on drop according to the release notes i've been reading and cannot be sold precisely because they dont want a few people to have a huge impact on the whole economy.

To quote from the WoW website:

Not Bound - Items can be equipped, removed, or traded at any time and in any order.
Bind on Equip - You can trade this item if you haven't equipped it. Once you equip it, you can no longer trade it with other players.
Bind on Use - Once you have used this item, you can no longer trade it.
Bind on Acquire - Once you pick up the item, you will no longer be able to trade it with other players. Be very careful not to loot this item if you're not supposed to have it permanently.
Quest Items - Quest Items are bound to your character. You cannot trade them.

Bind on equip/use works as I explained. Bind on acquire works exactly like the NO DROP status I was talking about. It's nice that you can look into the minds of the developers and predict exactly why these flags are present on items, I wish I had that skill. Have you actually played a game where such items are prevelant enough to understand their real impact on an economy?

If crafting was supposed to be nerfed then why do they make it so difficult to get to high lvl craft status knowing that u have no chance of making anything out of it? ( the amount of time i spent crafting knocks the laziness idea on the head)

Crafting is not remotely difficult, it is just time and resource hungry. I didn't say it had been "nerfed" either but simply put back in the correct place now that the effectiveness of other items has overtaken it once again. Did you not read my previous post? The reason crafting should never produce the best items in the game is that once you have people able to make them they can produce a steady stream that cannot easily be checked by the developers. Almost no one was wearing dropped items in slots where they could have spellcrafted ones pre-ToA.

Additionally have you not thought about why there is so much cash floating around that creates high prices? It is precisely because of spellcrafting that everyone spent so long farming DF seals and converting them into money so they could buy the crafted parts of their templates. Combine this with housing (which also prompted mass cash farming) and you have a situation where the people who prepared early are rolling in cash because it is the only way they can get hold of valuable commodities (spellcrafted items and houses). If they could have been farmed off normal mobs I'm sure they would have been as this is infinitely preferable to days and days of camping diamond seals.

In the 'real world' the money wasn't made by the miners and prospectorss but by the service providers, also in the real world economies have been ruined by monopolies and oligopolies which is why there are laws against it - the CoC says ppl cant claim a zone for themselves but can only claim mobs they have pulled - be interesting to see what happened if people started doing that tho.

This is the most insane analogy I've ever read. People farming items are "mining" them from mobs and also "selling" them. They provide both the raw materials and also the service by which they get to market (which allows everyone else to get hold of them). Hence they make the money by being both ends of the supply chain.