TOA and L33t!sts killed DAOC

[Esran]

Its an RPG, not fantasy genre deathmatch. I can't help but think there's a vast number of DAOC players who would jump at the chance of a fantasy based game with a DAOC like interface but a rule/xp/level/equipment system that worked like Planetside. And this saddens me.

 

[Tay]

I don't agree m8. This is not RL, this is a game and should be fun to everybody. You do this to relax, to have fun. ToA as an expansion could have been great if Mythic greed/stupidity (?) didnt kick in. I mean, an "adventure" like ToA is something you should experience once, enjoy and move on once you have seen it, done it. Why didnt they make it easy/fun/available for their customers, nobody would have blaimed them? Tbh, 90% of the ppl I know play for the endgame RvR. And I see that it's slowly dying thanks to the fucking idiots @ mythic.

lol, yet again you miss the point, you bought the game, you define how you want to play it, some people are quite happy to carry on PVE. Some really enjoy it. frankly I could live without RVR, I use it as something differant to do, some people even like to craft and some roleplay.

To make it fun for all would involve no levels, no loss of anything, nobody gets better through effort, no body is at a disadvantage cuz they play less etc etc. There can be no disappointment for anybody.

That to me sound like a bunch of total bollocks. the game is dying because of a number of factors, time people play, realm imbalances and inane leveling of artifacts and of course becasue people get wtfpwn on a regular basis due to the time "they" put in and their realm/classes abilities, thats not the games fault, its because some vocal people dont want to do it anymore, I have something in the region of 150 days played....no perfect but not too far off, I play it because I enjoy it, when I dont enjoy it I'll give it up simple as that.

To give an example:

I have very limited time to play now, roughly 2 hours/day, can stretch it to maybe 4 hours if I sacrifice some sleep and cut it down to 5/hours night. Atm I have 2 artifacts that I need to lvl in order to be "done" with ToA.

Lots of ramble cut.................

This is your choice, your perception of equal terms is a fallacy, all realms complain of some imbalance, if you want balance go to camlann you can be whatever you want, BUT somebody somewhere is always going to be better than you, time or in game cash or in game level.

Don't dismiss this post as whine from a lazy sod, cuz it's not. I have everything/done everything, and will finish this crap eventually. This doenst meen I think it's right just cuz im stupid enough to stick with it - think about other ppl - new ppl! If i was a new player I would NEVER EVER EVEN THINK ABOUT STARTING this game as it is today.

So, using some warped logic that the only people that rock in this game are the ones that have played since day 1, what about people that joined 1 month ago for the 1st time, or somebody joining today??

Dont like getting owned in emain....dont go there, you dont get a bigger e-penis the more RP's you have, you wont get rl respect for this shit...its a game...nobody in your office gives two farts about daoc ...because its a game.

There is no huge problems, because nothing actually matters in this game, you get bored you give it up, but bear in mind, people dont all feeel like you, some of us enjoy many other aspects of the game, I dont need to kill every group I meet, sure if feel great when I do, if I dont I get shity for about 20 secs but then you'll get a " sigh, ok, whos for some leveling then" from me.

 

[Tay]

You tryig to be funny?

<sigh> U never played rvr on a other server did you?
U dont need to run fotm to win every fight! Just play the way ur grouped and ur still strong! But then again, u only played on exca prolly

blablablablablabla, ur genralising u think all servers are same as exca
And yes there are maybe hunderes of guilds, maybe 5 of em are very active rvr, maybe 30 of em are with some ppl in rvr and in random group

lwt

... original...

lol maybe everybody just hates you?

No I wasnt trying to be funny, no artifact I have was impossible to get, yes I have played on another server next?

You make far to many assumptions.

 

[[e]]

A server filled with lvl 50 people, all decorated with 10 artis at lvl 10 and ML 10 of course, and RvR looking like the "Attack of the Clonewars

no matter how it would "look" there would be more balance. Add to this that Mythic fixes the realm balancing issues and you have a supergame. Furthermore, there ARE no reward for the time you spend if there are only a few ppl to interact with once you are done. Massive Multiplayer, means there are lots of ppl. For this to be a fact ppl must enjoy themselves. Have you been in emain recently ?

this would destroy the entire PvE component of the game, making DAOC something like a massive multiplayer Counterstrike

You would still do your fair share of PvE. Difference from today, you would have more fun, see new things and view PvE as an adventure rather then something that needs to be done to get to RvR. Once the "adventure" is coming to an end, you are rdy for RvR. Today: you have seen everything to boredom, still you have to do it over and over to get items, scrolls xp..whatever. And not to mention making new alts... do you really WANT to do the entire PvE-crap again in it's full length just because you want to try out a different class?

If you decide to play a MMORPG, then you know what you´re doing

Bullshit! You join a game like this because you like the Theme/Setting and you like the idea to interact with other "real" ppl. Adds another "dimension" to a game imo. Many ppl are in fact clueless from start, remain clueless for a long time - and when they start to see underlying mechanics and what this game does to their lives they are too hooked to just simply quit. The developers know this, thats why they can get away with crap like ToA.

It´s like requesting your local chessclub to play rapid tournaments only from now on because you can´t play a traditional 7 hour game anymore.

When entering your local chessclub you know roughly how long a game will take and that the conditions will be the same even after you are done.
I bet you would start to cry if 5 hours ingame, your opponents pulls out another queen - yes he can do that because he has more game time/experience then you.

 

[Klonk]

fixes to start with imo:
* reduce total xp it takes to reach lvl 50, about 1/2 - to 1/4 of today.
* let every ML-step give good xp in addition to [done].
* review and make adjustments on MLs so they can be done faster and with smaller force. No ML should require more then max 2 fgs to complete.
* artifacts respawn should be max 5-20 min.
* artifact lvling speed should all be like SoM. (if the god damn things need to be lvled at all - which is stupid imo).
* increase scroll droprate to atleast 10% chance /mob.
* NPC who can repair dur on artis.

Agree 100% - I understand that Mythic releases expansion packs, and that they need to introduce new stuff/weaps/abilities to keep ppl interested, but atm the difference between the powergamers and the casual players is too big. It SHOULD be possible to do most MLs as 2fg, would make it much better if you could just gather your m8s and their m8s and have a go.

 

[[e]]

Tay, maybe you are a little "slow" with memory like a goldfish? Maybe for you every logon is a new adventure. I rest my case, ToA is a great expansion - Mythic really did it this time, look at all the happy ppl

 

[Tay]

no matter how it would "look" there would be more balance. Add to this that Mythic fixes the realm balancing issues and you have a supergame. Furthermore, there ARE no reward for the time you spend if there are only a few ppl to interact with once you are done. Massive Multiplayer, means there are lots of ppl. For this to be a fact ppl must enjoy themselves. Have you been in emain recently ?

Erm thats CS or Unreal then with a medival theme... I choose this game because it was fairly dynamic and I could vary the time spent on it and the gfx looked great.

You would still do your fair share of PvE. Difference from today, you would have more fun, see new things and view PvE as an adventure rather then something that needs to be done to get to RvR. Once the "adventure" is coming to an end, you are rdy for RvR. Today: you have seen everything to boredom, still you have to do it over and over to get items, scrolls xp..whatever. And not to mention making new alts... do you really WANT to do the entire PvE-crap again in it's full length just because you want to try out a different class?

When you do something enough times that advanture becomes boring..there is no game in the world that can offer that sort of variety on a daily basis.

I dont have a problem doing it all again, I get a great sense of accomplishment out of the artis I have and how I got many of them, being solo or with a small number of people, that sense of accomplishent is a good reward for the time put it, I remember spending 2-3hrs in the SoG building smacking in the door with FF and with 2-3 people inside with me, at the time I dont recall anybody else attempting it with less than a fg, that itself was a good reward.

Bullshit! You join a game like this because you like the Theme/Setting and you like the idea to interact with other "real" ppl. Adds another "dimension" to a game imo. Many ppl are in fact clueless from start, remain clueless for a long time - and when they start to see underlying mechanics and what this game does to their lives they are too hooked to just simply quit. The developers know this, thats why they can get away with crap like ToA.

When entering your local chessclub you know roughly how long a game will take and that the conditions will be the same even after you are done.
I bet you would start to cry if 5 hours ingame, your opponents pulls out another queen - yes he can do that because he has more game time/experience then you.

I like the theme but real people control CS or unreal chars too, I dont like CS, if you want to be differant be differant, you dont have to conform "just to finish it off".. people that tell people not to play this game really should just quit and stop the bellyaching, just do us and yourself a favour get it out of your system, this game will not be change because you dont like the way it progresses, the game is designed to never finish, for every person that leaves another will join...simple as that. There will never be any real balance in the game because who wants to be exactly the same as the next guy?

 

[Klonk]

Couldn't edit my last post, so here goes:

... but MLs aren't the worst part, the worst part is not-100% arti mobs (Terkari anyone?) with large areas of spawn and/or long time between spawns and/or short despawn timers. And scrolls that won't drop or drop from mobs so desolate that makes most villages in northern Norway seem like New York City. And leveling the goddamn things for ages (scorpion tail ring anyone?)

Basically TOA has made it near-impossible to make alts/re-roll or move servers, and has forced you to focus on one char to play in rvr. If you regret your choice 6 months later, you are doomed to several months of going thru the same kind of shit again, or quit. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed running in the TOA zones, checking out all the new stuff, hell I even enjoyed MLs at first, before I realized that some monkey had made it so you had to re-do the MLs several times, just cuz you weren't "experienced enough" after doing an ML once (most silly idea ever imo).

The "entry barrier" for new players or re-rolling players is now as high as it has ever been. I remember thinking that if I wanted a SB, I could lvl him to 50, get him 99% crafted armour (mb a MP part for maxing his SC as far as possible) and boom - ready for rvr. Nowadays I consider leveling my 24 hunter, but dunno if I cba to lvl + making template + getting artifacts + getting scrolls + getting MLs + getting ML xp + getting MP armour/weapons. So a basic analysis: TOA is now preventing me from rolling alt chars for play in rvr, which I think sucks. Think many agree with me.

 

[Tay]

Tay, maybe you are a little "slow" with memory like a goldfish? Maybe for you every logon is a new adventure. I rest my case, ToA is a great expansion - Mythic really did it this time, look at all the happy ppl

You really are a self centred idiot arnt you?.

You cant answer the points so you attempt to cloud the issues.

When you can actually make some valid and achievable aims for the game send them to Mythic, do not attempt to spread your ill informed diatribe to people here that have been here from the start and that dont bellyache like a spoilt child because there is no gain with pain.

If your incapable of playing the game without the effort then piss off back to CS be the same as everybody else.

TOA is a good add on as far as I am concerned (And I suspect many others like it too) it kept me with the game longer, it also appeared to have kept lemmings like you here too, the only draw back is your too stupid to quit the game like everybody else here that is unhappy.

 

[illu]

I think [e] has the right idea - maybe a little too far - but the right kind of ideas.

Yes DAOC is a game, and it is meant to be fun - or at least fill in "spare time". When it becomes a 30 hour repetitive chore killing the same mobs - then someone who designed the game obviously has a wicked sense of humour.

DAOC has something for everyone. Some people love PvE, some ppl love to camp artis / farm scrolls or seals and get money, some ppl love RvR. Everyone has their own goal in the game. But fundementally, I think most people want to get to the theorhetical end of the game which is RR1010.

Now ToA came along and was a great addition. Lots of Artifacts that do lots of weird and wonderful things. The first time I got shapechanged into a beetle and into a spraggan(?) - I laughed out loud.

I think like [e] though, for the people that want to RvR and just kill other people, Artifacts were indeed required, to be on a level playing field and some MLs come in useful too. The problem now is just the timesink that the game has become. For people that work, have girlfriends that moan that you are not paying them attention, for ppl who have kids, there should be a warning on the gamebox saying "this game will severly take up all of your spare time!". I think I worked out once that for my SB to get to level 50, get ML10, and get all the artifacts + scrolls I wanted, then level all the Artifacts to level 10, has taken over 50 DAYS (1200 hours) and if I bought all the Scrolls and Artifacts, over 150p!

Luckily I have great guild buddies who helped loads - so the cost was far far less.

I think fundementally the game should stay as it is, except for these minor changes, like [e] said.
1. New people need to be able to get xp slightly quicker. I only say this as the people that have played the game and already have guilds or more than one account can PL any alts up in Moderna or Malmo. New people don't have these options. Hell, people without a Pac Healer or Shammy with FOP or SM might as well give up trying to Plevel an alt too.
2. ToA should stay as it is, but some of the Artis need a slight tweaking as to the time it takes to xp them. I know there are worse ones than these - but 2 that spring to mind are the Ring of Dances and the Golden Scarab Vest. Over 20-30 hours of killing the same mob is torture. Maybe different mobs every few levels and a maximum of 20 hours xping per artifact would stop the tediousness of it all and people going braindead.
3. The drop rate should increase slightly on some of the scrolls. I know it would effect the economy of the game slightly, but Regarding Shades 3 and Battler 2 were frankly a pain in the arse to get.
4. It would be cool if once you reached ML10, you could give 1 other player ML10 too. (Useful for alts / BBs etc).

Apart from that, I think the game is still pretty cool (Apart from fg's of hibs hunting my sb :>). I think I saw some Armour and Weapon crafters mentioning that orders are way down since ToA, but I imagine SCing and Alchemy is still going strong as ever.

It should be interesting to see what Catacombs has in store for us and also NF.
So, "TOA and L33t!sts killed DAOC" isn't quite true I think, there will always be L33t!sts, and casual gamers, and hopefully everyone will have finished the ToA part of their lives soon, and get back to the RvR killing fields.

Only about 30 more hours of PAIN till I can back to RvR, looking forward to that moment hugely!

Oli - Illu

 

[Gordonax]

awwww.

DID YOU MISS WHO I QUOTED, AND WHO I CALLED A RETARD? YEAH, I THOUGHT SO.

RETARD.

Like I said: you know when someone's lost the plot when they start calling people a "retard". Let's face it Vinter, it just means you don't have an argument, you just have a meaningless opinion which you think you can persuade people of by throwing around insults. Pathetic, really.

 

[Thorwyn]

no matter how it would "look" there would be more balance. Add to this that Mythic fixes the realm balancing issues and you have a supergame. Furthermore, there ARE no reward for the time you spend if there are only a few ppl to interact with once you are done. Massive Multiplayer, means there are lots of ppl. For this to be a fact ppl must enjoy themselves. Have you been in emain recently ?

Look, a game like this one is totally and entirely based upon one and only one thing: time!
The more time you spend ingame, the more you get. This is the deciding difference between DAOC and Quake. You spend time farming money = you can buy items. You spend time watching a green bar move = your crafting skill rises. If you´re trying to balance the game and make it "even" for both kind of players, those who are online 2 hours a day and those, who are online 15 hours a day, then you´re destroying the principle of this entire game. Why would people spend time ingame, when all you need is 2 hours max? Where´s the long term motivation? You log on, have all items waiting for you in your vault?

Difference from today, you would have more fun, see new things and view PvE as an adventure rather then something that needs to be done to get to RvR. Once the "adventure" is coming to an end, you are rdy for RvR. Today: you have seen everything to boredom, still you have to do it over and over to get items, scrolls xp..whatever. And not to mention making new alts... do you really WANT to do the entire PvE-crap again in it's full length just because you want to try out a different class?

But the solution for the been there done that aspect isn´t take it away, it´s introduce new things. You won´t make the game more interesting by accelerating the process of levelling up.
And yes, when I want to try a different class, I´m thinking about whether it´s worth the effort and I accept the fact that if I want to have another char, I have to invest some time into him. I don´t want things for free. Can have all chars I want when I connect to a Quake server.

Bullshit! You join a game like this because you like the Theme/Setting and you like the idea to interact with other "real" ppl. Adds another "dimension" to a game imo.

You can´t blame the game because people don´t know what kind of game it is.

Many ppl are in fact clueless from start, remain clueless for a long time - and when they start to see underlying mechanics and what this game does to their lives they are too hooked to just simply quit. The developers know this, thats why they can get away with crap like ToA.

I still don´t see a reason to change the game and turn it into some form of casual player Diablo. If YOU are a casual gamer, then YOU have to find a game that fit´s YOUR expectations. Being addicted to a game is no excuse to change it.

When entering your local chessclub you know roughly how long a game will take and that the conditions will be the same even after you are done.

Exactly! And when you are running out of time because of RL stuff, you have to live with the consequences and stop playing tournament chess. What you DON`T do is expect everybody to play quicker because long games are boring and you can only play 2 hours a day and all the nerds who´re spending days in front of their pieces should play as you want.

I bet you would start to cry if 5 hours ingame, your opponents pulls out another queen - yes he can do that because he has more game time/experience then you.

No, he can´t pull another queen. He might be better than I am because he´s been practicing more and that´s just fair. As I said, time = success in a MMORPG.

 

[[e]]

You really don't see the problem Tay or you just want to post something anti-[e]? The reason I post/care at all is because I like this game. I like the concept and I see the potential in daoc. I DONT want to see the game die out due to the fact that the gap is so huge that new players (or casual) get scared off or don't have the energy to finish. It's not about what you can do or what you personally think is fun etc etc. It's about what is right thing to do/what course to take with the game to attract, keep and satisfie old as new players. If this many ppl are unhappy, there MUST be a problem that needs serious attention. Fun is different for different ppl. What is needed is balance on many different levels. Can you honestly say we have that today?

 

[Draylor]

It SHOULD be possible to do most MLs as 2fg

For most it is.

Ml1/2/3 can be done with 2FG.
ML4 most of it would be ok: 4.2 youll need help with
ML5/6 & most of 7 you can handle as 2FG. Maybe get a little help with 7.10
ML8 youll need help only with 8.10
ML9 youll need help only with 9.10

Just because people tend to do these with silly numbers (100+ etc) doesnt mean it has to be done that way.

 

[Klonk]

this game will not be change because you dont like the way it progresses

Now that's a nice strategy for surviving strong competition I wonder if Colgate or any other company facing strong strategic competition would neglect the opinions of their customers... I think not.

Admittedly, Mythic seems slow to react to this, but I have the hope that if 90% of the playerbase agrees on a subject, it will have an impact.

 

[Thorwyn]

Admittedly, Mythic seems slow to react to this, but I have the hope that if 90% of the playerbase agrees on a subject, it will have an impact.

I bet that more than 90% of the playerbase would also agree if you´d ask them if Mythic should introduce an instant /level 50 /realmrank 10 feature.

 

[Klonk]

For most it is.

Ml1/2/3 can be done with 2FG.
ML4 most of it would be ok: 4.2 youll need help with
ML5/6 & most of 7 you can handle as 2FG. Maybe get a little help with 7.10
ML8 youll need help only with 8.10
ML9 youll need help only with 9.10

Just because people tend to do these with silly numbers (100+ etc) doesnt mean it has to be done that way.

Thank you for illustrating my point. Saying you can do ALMOST the entire ML4 with 2fg, is the practical equivalent of saying you CANNOT do the entire ML4 with 2fg ("did you get credit for that step?" "yes, I almost got credit" )IMO it should be enough with 1fg-ish on most steps, then 2fg-ish in main mob x.10. In my follow-up post I also said that MLs aren't the most annoying things in TOA, artifacts are

The MLs should be an adventure in itself, doing them should be fun (it often is too - the first time) but it shouldn't require tedious planning, reading forums, signing up, etc, you should be able to go out with a nice pve group and do them. IMO.

 

[Draylor]

You said you wanted to be able to do MOST MLs with 2FG - fact is you can. 4 steps out of 90 that cant be done with those numbers is hardly unreasonable.

It doesnt have to be organised via forums etc: thats just one way people tend to find convenient.

As for artifacts theres at most a handful of them that cant be done by "1FG-ish" so I dont see the problem there. There are many problems with the way artifacts work but the numbers required to get most of them are fairly reasonable.

(maybe I should add "at least in albion" to that. Since Mid has no petspam class I appreciate some encounters might need more people)

 

[vintervargen]

Like I said: you know when someone's lost the plot when they start calling people a "retard". Let's face it Vinter, it just means you don't have an argument, you just have a meaningless opinion which you think you can persuade people of by throwing around insults. Pathetic, really.

or, when themselves has nothing to say except TEH_EBAY_JOKEEEE

You wont look Smart just because you write with Capital Letters, m9.

 

[Jaapi]

If your incapable of playing the game without the effort then piss off back to CS be the same as everybody else.

Since the issue seems black and white to you, i will tell you what the real problem here is.
Effort should be rewarded and it has been, problem is that now the rewards to the people who have the opportunity and the will to play the game using all of their freetime has widened the gap where a fg that just has right items and ML's can kill 2-4 random fg's with ease.
And since your attitude to the matter is that if you don't like the game, quit, i will let you in to another secret.
People might just dislike parts of the game, not the whole game.

Just something to think about.

 

[Jaapi]

You wont look Smart just because you write with Capital Letters, m9.

DID YOU MISS WHO I QUOTED, AND WHO I CALLED A RETARD? YEAH, I THOUGHT SO.

RETARD.

Point taken.

 

[Esran]

You really don't see the problem Tay or you just want to post something anti-[e]? The reason I post/care at all is because I like this game. I like the concept and I see the potential in daoc. I DONT want to see the game die out due to the fact that the gap is so huge that new players (or casual) get scared off or don't have the energy to finish. It's not about what you can do or what you personally think is fun etc etc. It's about what is right thing to do/what course to take with the game to attract, keep and satisfie old as new players. If this many ppl are unhappy, there MUST be a problem that needs serious attention. Fun is different for different ppl. What is needed is balance on many different levels. Can you honestly say we have that today?

You're seeing DAOC as a game with a single objective, RR10 ownage. You talk about "energy to finish". For me, and plenty of other people, there is no 'finish'. We play PvE, maybe sometimes RvR, whatever. We get a good gaming experience by helping people out, even if it is something we've done ourselves many many times. What are you going to do when you 'finish'? When you have lvl 50 ML 10, RR 10, uber artifacts? State your claim on the realm point leader board?

Whilst that may be an aspect of DAOC it isn't the sole thing to DAOC.

RvR is a part of DAOC, but it isn't all that DAOC is about. Do a /who and then see how many of those are doing RvR. Even when you limit it to lvl 50 chars who aren't pl-ing or simply farming for RvR kit you'll still find plenty of people out there in PvE land.

Please don't cheapen the game for us by making 1-50 and MLs just a nice easy story to do once and then move on to the business of duking out with other people in RvR. I'm not nearly so interested in proving my leetness (actually complete lack of) as I am in enjoying a nice immersive environment with lots of real people. There's a reason I don't play any of the many FPS games.

 

[Tootz]

I think the mentality of many players in this game, with regard to ToA and why they don't like it, can be summed up with the folloing "player types". While these are only a bit of fun, I'm pretty sure everyone can associate with one of them and recognise people from the others :

1. The "Old Skool". These guys have been with the game since the start, or pretty damn close to it. They spent about 6 months getting their first level 50, and then have probably leveled 3-4 more the old fashioned way. After 2+ yrs of doing a lot of PvE, they're now getting a little fed up of it, and RvR is now their past-time of choice. With the arrival of ToA came excitement at something new, but the novelty has now worn off, and leveling all those artifacts is beginning to get tiresome. Still, the xp-grind is nothing new to these players, and although they may not enjoy doing it, they'll grit their teeth and get the job done so that they can enjoy the benefits in RvR.

2. The l337 crowd. These boys joined the game 1-2 years after the rest of us, but despite this, they claim to know everything about it. They have no interest in PvE, and only care about wtfpwning in RvR - they see it as an extension to their manhood. This means they can't be bothered spending time leveling their characters, so they either buy one off eBay, or pay/beg to be powerleveled. The next step is then to get a buffbot, either by powerleveling one, or purchasing it off eBay. As soon as their current class starts to lose in RvR, or gets nerfed, they will switch to whatever is the latest FOTM. Despite this change in class, however, victory is not 100%, so they search the internet for any cheats which might help them gain an advantage - I have no doubt that 9/10 radar users fall into this category. In between pwning in emain, they like to come to FreddysHouse and use the phrases, "n00b", "qq", "pwned", "nerf", "zerg" as much as they can. On rare occasions they will also think up very witty threads to post, such as "wtf nerf scout damage" and then get all their IRC buddies to post replies backing them up - this then makes them look popular and clever.

3. The RPG fan. These players love the whole RPG idea, and love doing quests, grouping up with people, and generally having fun. They prefer to PvE rather than RvR, and as such, ToA has been a big success for them bringing lots of new things for them to do and explore. As they don't RvR that much, xping artifacts isn't that important to them, but they still enjoy doing ML's, and the actual artifact encounters.

4. The "New Skool". This group joined the game later on, and have been playing for anything from 1-18 months. They play the game as it was intended, xping in groups, and doing quests along the way while making friends and getting to know how the game works. They're pretty much the same as the "Old Skool" players, in that they don't mind PvE that much, but would sooner be playing in RvR - even though most times they will find themselves eating dirt. Despite this though, the game is still relatively new to them, and they enjoy their time playing it.

 

[Tay]

You really don't see the problem Tay or you just want to post something anti-[e]? The reason I post/care at all is because I like this game. I like the concept and I see the potential in daoc. I DONT want to see the game die out due to the fact that the gap is so huge that new players (or casual) get scared off or don't have the energy to finish. It's not about what you can do or what you personally think is fun etc etc. It's about what is right thing to do/what course to take with the game to attract, keep and satisfie old as new players. If this many ppl are unhappy, there MUST be a problem that needs serious attention. Fun is different for different ppl. What is needed is balance on many different levels. Can you honestly say we have that today?

My objection and it has been MY objection since you started this crusade 4-5 threads ago is that many people enjoy the game, you continually "ask" for this type of reply by saying everybody is unhappy with TOA or at least insinuating they are. Frankly not all of them are.

I understand that many of the game mechanics cant be changed over night, Team leads should be informed of issues with classes (fwiw) but that is the approach to take, not inciting people here to stop playing or whatever. What was the feedback you got from the "Insert class here" Team Lead you sent all these ideas to?

Actually, I think for a PVE / RVR balance I probably have that and I'm not really unhappy with the game, sure I want things changed, Necros are as buggered today as they have been from the minute they made them, they have nerfed them as much as they have fixed them, some realms have things that "I" think turn the game on its head namely instas and dmg do'ers but thats an old discussion.

There is a little balance in the game but that is what defines it to a degree, things have been done overtly (imho) to change the flow of the normal mechanics to suit population issues (maybe). Albs classes for example would on the face of it appear to have taken more nerfs than others but its a perceptual thing, I'm sure other realms think the same about thier realm, I play Alb on this server therefore I'm aware of Alb issues more than others.

I will have to disagree with you, its entirely about my fun. when I get bored I'll leave, if I get owned 1 to many times in a night maybe I'll give it up then I dont know. but one thing I do know is that this is purely about my fun.

 

[Asha]

That's a load of toss tbh.
You cannot box people like that. Many if not most of the people you & others call "leet" have been playing since beta. Some use the lame-speak, some dont.

The point is that TOA has made the game even more difficult for people, especially those with any time commitments outside the game, to participate in RvR. It wasn't easy before and it's less easy now.

I think the other effect will be that with less casual players to farm, the leet ppl will eventually get bored and wander onto another game.

But as someone else said, DAoC has died 10 or 15 times if you believe everything that is written on forums like these

 

[Esran]

<snip>

3. The RPG fan. These players love the whole RPG idea, and love doing quests, grouping up with people, and generally having fun. They prefer to PvE rather than RvR, and as such, ToA has been a big success for them bringing lots of new things for them to do and explore. As they don't RvR that much, xping artifacts isn't that important to them, but they still enjoy doing ML's, and the actual artifact encounters.

Hehe nice one. Worth bearing in mind that the way DAOC's RvR is set up, keeps/relics/df, is nice and has a roleplay aspect. Its not just killing people for status and points. Its about defending the realm and keeping the other realms down.

 

[Tay]

Now that's a nice strategy for surviving strong competition I wonder if Colgate or any other company facing strong strategic competition would neglect the opinions of their customers... I think not.

Admittedly, Mythic seems slow to react to this, but I have the hope that if 90% of the playerbase agrees on a subject, it will have an impact.

DAOC do not face strong competition at the moment, lets face it the majority of people that have left publically have done so to get on with thier lives, not to go to another game. This figure is subjective but based on what I have seen it would seem to be the case.

You misunderstand me as does [e], Mythic are not ignoring the opinions of thier customers, it is ignoring some of them, but remember this is about perceptual balance its about the majority not the minority, as long as the majority are reasonably happy then they can throw tid bits at the minority to keep them coming back.

Lest face it, everybody here complaining about the game is still here playing it, with the notable exceptions of people that claim we are retarded for carrying on playing it.

I would love to see 90% of daoc player base agree on what type of air to breath. Let alone the balance of a computer game.

 

[[e]]

my patience is running low for this debate and the entire PvE-ToA-is-great community. Ofc it's great if you highfive your m8s for killing a MLboss or what-ever-boss "only 4 ppl when an entire grp was required". oOh :worthy:
I really hope you enjoy PvE, the direction we are going atm, PvE might be the only thing for you to do soon.
Ppl with a little more intelectual capacity tend to get bored after killing the same low-AI-whatever-mob(s) over and over and over again. But not you guys....STLONG! If you don't see the problem in todays daoc, you are stupid! Nothing more for me to say about this. Have fun with whatever...

oh, btw..
make sure to jump WoW when it comes out...there you can start all over with the uberfun PvE and convince yourself it's not the same shit in different package.

 

[Esran]

3. The RPG fan. These players love the whole RPG idea, and love doing quests, grouping up with people, and generally having fun. They prefer to PvE rather than RvR, and as such, ToA has been a big success for them bringing lots of new things for them to do and explore. As they don't RvR that much, xping artifacts isn't that important to them, but they still enjoy doing ML's, and the actual artifact encounters.

Hehe nice one. Worth bearing in mind that the way DAOC's RvR is set up, keeps/relics/df, is nice and has a roleplay aspect. Its not just killing people for status and points. Its about defending the realm and keeping the other realms down.

In that aspect of RvR (keep takes, relic attack / defence) pretty much anyone can compete. The zerg has a great evening out effect.

my patience is running low for this debate and the entire PvE-ToA-is-great community. Ofc it's great if you highfive your m8s for killing a MLboss or what-ever-boss "only 4 ppl when an entire grp was required". oOh :worthy:
I really hope you enjoy PvE, the direction we are going atm, PvE might be the only thing for you to do soon.
Ppl with a little more intelectual capacity tend to get bored after killing the same low-AI-whatever-mob(s) over and over and over again. But not you guys....STLONG! If you don't see the problem in todays daoc, you are stupid! Nothing more for me to say about this. Have fun with whatever...

Oh yes, we're all tree hugging hippy dope heads who are just in it for the mellow fealing. Peace out man, who cares about RvR. Thats just bad, man.

I fully agree that TOA (i.e. ML abilities and Artifacts) has screwed the balance between casual and committed players in the RvR arena. Its a PVE thing that has a massive effect on RVR. Nothing else does that. But please, accept that there are people who want and enjoy a whole lot of PVE and lets try and think of ways to mitigate the effect TOA has without lessening their enjoyment as well?

 

[Gordonax]

Point taken.

LOL so, so owned.