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ning
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According to this wanadoo website : http://www.alapage.com/mx/?id=84781..._NOVA=623102&devise=&fulltext=dark+age&sv=X_L
(in french)
(in french)
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Freppe^^
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Gah thats along time, wonder when we will get frontiers then zZzz, will take ages 
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cHodAX
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Originally posted by Freppe^^
Gah thats along time, wonder when we will get frontiers then zZzz, will take ages
June, perhaps July depending on how fast they can patch to 1.67 after ToA.
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Roo Stercogburn
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Well, tail end of Feb was when SI was scheduled, so no real surprise.
Looking forward to ToA and new ways to piss off stealthers.
Looking forward to ToA and new ways to piss off stealthers.
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old.Zarff
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and the new way items/artifacts will degrade... should be really fast
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Tesla Monkor
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ToA will come WITH 1.67.
1.65 is almost finished testing and will go live early January. (I expect)
1.65 is almost finished testing and will go live early January. (I expect)
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bigchief
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Gives me 2 months left in the game then 
Toa alters/effects too much stuff thats fundamental to the current game play for my liking, especially in rvr so its unlikely i'll bother wasting money on it
Toa alters/effects too much stuff thats fundamental to the current game play for my liking, especially in rvr so its unlikely i'll bother wasting money on it
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-Nxs-
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Originally posted by bigchief
Toa alters/effects too much stuff thats fundamental to the current game play for my liking, especially in rvr so its unlikely i'll bother wasting money on it
Listen to this guy... he can see the future like me
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Shanaia
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and me ... 2 months left in DAOC for me then ... I'll miss it.
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tripitaka
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Same here - not gonna bother with TOA for a while, ruins it for me.
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Freppe^^
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:\ suxs.
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cHodAX
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Got 2 weeks left here, may stay another month if my Necro is fun after 1.65 but soon as ToA goes live I am outta here.
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Yussef
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Roll on ToA.
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sh33py
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Originally posted by -Nxs-
Listen to this guy... he can see the future like me
Yup, it'd be nice if they'd leave a server without ToA on tbh, only thing that would keep me playing.
For some reason Mythic keep harnessing this desire to turn the game into EQ, ToA is just one big timesink of boring camping and PvE level treadmill grinding; joy.
But the real kicker is you need to do all that crap to have any chance of not being completely gimped in RvR |:
You'd think they'd of realised that their playerbase keeps playing because of RvR and made the expansion pack a scaled up version of Frontiers or such, ah the wonders of mmorpg developers, truly a breed unto themselves
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lakih
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Originally posted by sh33py
You'd think they'd of realised that their playerbase keeps playing because of RvR and made the expansion pack a scaled up version of Frontiers or such, ah the wonders of mmorpg developers, truly a breed unto themselves
Not everyone is a PvP whore... some of us is PvE whores aswell
Yey ToA!
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Delket
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/nod
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sh33py
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Originally posted by lakih
Not everyone is a PvP whore... some of us is PvE whores aswell
Yey ToA!
oO
PvE whores, people that actively seek out mobs to camp for days and grind out as many lvl50s as possible because levelling is so much fun?
I can see WoW PvE being fun but DAoC's PvE is god awful level grinding and has to have one of the worst questing systems of any mmorpg.
It wouldn't even be so bad if the items weren't all that great or at least not super-uber 25% faster casting etc. that equate to must have items for RvR, if it's anything like the US servers it'll kill off nearly all PvP for a few months while everyone goes off to camp mobs and grind out artifact levels, eugh.
I can just imagine whining now if their next expansion added an uber dungeon with the best loot in the game but was restricted to RR6+
But each to their own, with any luck WoW beta will be out by then.
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old.Revz
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It isn't a terribly good idea to extrapolate how fun a game will be from screenshots and the small snatches of information that have been provided. I would imagine that if you really hate grinding levels in DAoC then you will really hate it in WoW also so don't artificially get your hopes up that it will somehow change and be magically exciting all the time. They will probably make it better but the whole "kill mobs, gain levels and loot" isn't going to be dramatically different I wouldn't have thought. Also, have you tried the EQ questing system? Or the one in AO? The DAoC quests are a walk in the park compared to those.
Strangely that whole killing mobs and levelling up is what a lot of people like to do. Hence Mythic giving people what they want
PvP as an "endgame" on its own isn't satisfactory I don't think.
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hrodelbert
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Originally posted by old.Revz
It isn't a terribly good idea to extrapolate how fun a game will be from screenshots and the small snatches of information that have been provided. I would imagine that if you really hate grinding levels in DAoC then you will really hate it in WoW also so don't artificially get your hopes up that it will somehow change and be magically exciting all the time. They will probably make it better but the whole "kill mobs, gain levels and loot" isn't going to be dramatically different I wouldn't have thought. Also, have you tried the EQ questing system? Or the one in AO? The DAoC quests are a walk in the park compared to those.
Strangely that whole killing mobs and levelling up is what a lot of people like to do. Hence Mythic giving people what they want
Sage words as ever Revz
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sh33py
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True but notice the "i can imagine", even with the marketing talk you can see that they're trying to avoid the grind, and tbh you don't have to be a master developer to beat daoc's quests.. 3 hours horse travel and about 5 minutes of actually doing anything, how creative
AO did some cool things towards the end, the temple of three winds or whatever with epic mobs that didn't take 200 people to kill and cool loot drops.
If they create what they say you'll hardly ever be doing anything that isn't quest orientated, you can apparantly go through the game always with 2+ epic sized quests on the go for every level. Plus the rewards from said quests are often worth a full level.
It's impossible to tell at this early stage of course but if anyone can do it judging by past games then blizz can, the premise behind diablo/2 was simple but they got the right mixture of what makes a game fun to play and addictive just right.
You could do the same levels over and over yet it never felt boring or like you could just macro it, taunt pull mob, spam hotkey1, sit pretty much sums up most mmorpgs, daoc positionals help somewhat but you can generally get away with just spamming a high anytime style for PvE.
PvP isn't an end game? lol Tell that to all the people with 1mil+ RP that have been purely doing RvR for the last year and more; the whole purpose of daoc is hit 50 then RvR, it's what the game is designed for, the PvE is just what you need to do to hit 50 and get enough plat for a suit of SC.
PvE isn't an end game unless you're an extremely casual player that takes forever to hit 50, I really cannot see how anyone can enjoy levelling in daoc tbh, it's bad enough to do it once to 50, not alone continue to do it with alts; unless you really enjoy killing identical clones of mobs with absolutely no AI for days on end with a combat system that's very slow and holds very few challenges.
AC/AC2 combat had the right idea, especially AC, fully buff and go up against a horde of tuskans or othloi, you could be completely surrounded with mobs and fight your way out. AC2 was similar at least with a feral, you had to manage your vigor/health with drains etc. perfectly or you'd die in 2-3 hits.
DAoC combat in comparison is boring, repetitive and the locations are dull, coupled with long downtime if you're stupid enough to do it without a buffbot.
It really does frighten me that there are people out there that love it so much and can't see a massive timesink of pointlessness when they're presented with one, but then thousands play EQ and SWG so I guess it's not all that shocking
AO did some cool things towards the end, the temple of three winds or whatever with epic mobs that didn't take 200 people to kill and cool loot drops.
If they create what they say you'll hardly ever be doing anything that isn't quest orientated, you can apparantly go through the game always with 2+ epic sized quests on the go for every level. Plus the rewards from said quests are often worth a full level.
It's impossible to tell at this early stage of course but if anyone can do it judging by past games then blizz can, the premise behind diablo/2 was simple but they got the right mixture of what makes a game fun to play and addictive just right.
You could do the same levels over and over yet it never felt boring or like you could just macro it, taunt pull mob, spam hotkey1, sit pretty much sums up most mmorpgs, daoc positionals help somewhat but you can generally get away with just spamming a high anytime style for PvE.
Strangely that whole killing mobs and levelling up is what a lot of people like to do. Hence Mythic giving people what they want
PvP isn't an end game? lol
Tell that to all the people with 1mil+ RP that have been purely doing RvR for the last year and more; the whole purpose of daoc is hit 50 then RvR, it's what the game is designed for, the PvE is just what you need to do to hit 50 and get enough plat for a suit of SC.PvE isn't an end game unless you're an extremely casual player that takes forever to hit 50, I really cannot see how anyone can enjoy levelling in daoc tbh, it's bad enough to do it once to 50, not alone continue to do it with alts; unless you really enjoy killing identical clones of mobs with absolutely no AI for days on end with a combat system that's very slow and holds very few challenges.
AC/AC2 combat had the right idea, especially AC, fully buff and go up against a horde of tuskans or othloi, you could be completely surrounded with mobs and fight your way out. AC2 was similar at least with a feral, you had to manage your vigor/health with drains etc. perfectly or you'd die in 2-3 hits.
DAoC combat in comparison is boring, repetitive and the locations are dull, coupled with long downtime if you're stupid enough to do it without a buffbot.
It really does frighten me that there are people out there that love it so much and can't see a massive timesink of pointlessness when they're presented with one, but then thousands play EQ and SWG so I guess it's not all that shocking
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old.Vae
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Maybe it's not the destination but the journey...
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Roo Stercogburn
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You don't need a buffbot if you have friends
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Addlcove
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Originally posted by Roo Stercogburn
You don't need a buffbot if you have friends
he calls himself sh33py...
he defenetly needs a buffbot
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old.Revz
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I'm hoping that WoW turns out great as well, but I'm not going to expect anything groundbreaking from Blizzard. What they do well is take an established formula and polish it to perfection. The press releases sound exciting but I'm sure you could phrase a lot of the stuff in DAoC in exactly the same words (an "epic" quest that follows you through the lifetime of your character anyone? )
I find PvP pointless, dull and boring for the most part so you can probably count me as one of the hundreds of thousands who enjoys PvE more. What do you think people did for items before there was spell crafting (probably one of the worst things they ever introduced to the game incidentally)? They went out and killed the mobs who dropped them.
PvE is an endgame as long as Mythic keep producing new content for it. Pretty much everything they have released so far has given new zones, better items and harder boss mobs. Even with a much simpler item system than other games, spell crafting to help you and so forth it is quite difficult to assemble the "perfect" set of equipment for any one character (the problem being that you can assemble a set that is "good enough" quite easily). Also there are many challenges to tackling PvE beyond getting exp in a group situation. The first time any of the LB mobs died, the first time Legion was killed, the first time the dragon was slain followed by the first time it was killed with 3FG, the first time Apoc died and so on. All of these were substantial challenges to overcome at the time and the challenge came from the organisation and tactics on a macro scale, not from each individual person hitting whatever buttons they did (although the fewer people you use the more that comes into play).
Also, I'm not denying there are time sinks involved with all of this but I really can't see how you expect things to be challenging or balanced without some kind of restraints on the system? AC2 was destroyed by the ease with which you could level up and get the best items. Things need to be kept challenging and hard or people don't appreciate the reward when they get there. Timesinks is a part of this (but then again getting RP is another timesink, you play enough and you will get RP eventually - the number of clueless RR5 people pays testament to that fact) and I would be interested to see how you make something difficult without them
I don't like PvP (although I have had some good times it just isn't for me) and you don't like PvE. I doubt we will persuade each other here It doesn't make either of us wrong or right though.
)Originally posted by sh33py
PvP isn't an end game? lol
PvE isn't an end game unless you're an extremely casual player that takes forever to hit 50, I really cannot see how anyone can enjoy levelling in daoc tbh, it's bad enough to do it once to 50, not alone continue to do it with alts; unless you really enjoy killing identical clones of mobs with absolutely no AI for days on end with a combat system that's very slow and holds very few challenges.
AC/AC2 combat had the right idea, especially AC, fully buff and go up against a horde of tuskans or othloi, you could be completely surrounded with mobs and fight your way out. AC2 was similar at least with a feral, you had to manage your vigor/health with drains etc. perfectly or you'd die in 2-3 hits.
DAoC combat in comparison is boring, repetitive and the locations are dull, coupled with long downtime if you're stupid enough to do it without a buffbot.
It really does frighten me that there are people out there that love it so much and can't see a massive timesink of pointlessness when they're presented with one, but then thousands play EQ and SWG so I guess it's not all that shocking
I find PvP pointless, dull and boring for the most part so you can probably count me as one of the hundreds of thousands who enjoys PvE more. What do you think people did for items before there was spell crafting (probably one of the worst things they ever introduced to the game incidentally)? They went out and killed the mobs who dropped them.
PvE is an endgame as long as Mythic keep producing new content for it. Pretty much everything they have released so far has given new zones, better items and harder boss mobs. Even with a much simpler item system than other games, spell crafting to help you and so forth it is quite difficult to assemble the "perfect" set of equipment for any one character (the problem being that you can assemble a set that is "good enough" quite easily). Also there are many challenges to tackling PvE beyond getting exp in a group situation. The first time any of the LB mobs died, the first time Legion was killed, the first time the dragon was slain followed by the first time it was killed with 3FG, the first time Apoc died and so on. All of these were substantial challenges to overcome at the time and the challenge came from the organisation and tactics on a macro scale, not from each individual person hitting whatever buttons they did (although the fewer people you use the more that comes into play).
Also, I'm not denying there are time sinks involved with all of this but I really can't see how you expect things to be challenging or balanced without some kind of restraints on the system? AC2 was destroyed by the ease with which you could level up and get the best items. Things need to be kept challenging and hard or people don't appreciate the reward when they get there. Timesinks is a part of this (but then again getting RP is another timesink, you play enough and you will get RP eventually - the number of clueless RR5 people pays testament to that fact) and I would be interested to see how you make something difficult without them
I don't like PvP (although I have had some good times it just isn't for me) and you don't like PvE. I doubt we will persuade each other here
It doesn't make either of us wrong or right though.
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old.windforce
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<is looking fo the reputation button to add a few to poster above>
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sh33py
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Agreed I have no problem with some people for whatever reason preferring PvE, personally the challenge of beating other players will always rank way above computer AI targets for me but it's my preference alone.
Or any problem with PvE if its implemented well, the events you mentioned weren't challenging, they just required 200 people to go throw themselves at a mob and unsuprisingly it died.
No matter what mythic create, add 6-7 fgs and it'll die, so what? Organising a bunch of morons isn't _that_ much fun unless you really love power tripping
Next to relic raids that's pathetic, even on the organisation side of it.
As for assembling the perfect set being a fun challenge, that's not exactly what I'd call camping some mob that has a retarded 5 hour respawn timer and a 2% chance to drop for a week whilst fighting off other campers.
Stuff like that which is just artificially designed so that it takes a lot of time, there's no skill or intelligence required, just time = subscription money.
Which is precisely why I hate that dynamic of PvE, it's found in almost all current mmorpgs, want a max level char? you just need to have no life and a lot of time on your hands. Regardless of how skilled you are you won't level much faster, anyone can sign into an XP group, do 5-6 hours a night and be 50 in a month or so.
You can't do that with PvP, if you suck then you'll spend a very long time getting RPs and die a lot / get your group killed in the process.
AC2's problem was the live team being a bunch of idiots that after about 6 months decided to turn the game into EQ, nerf all classes ability to solo, back to forcing everyone to group for XP etc.
I played darktide ffa server for a while, probably best mmorpg experience I've had since AC1 but ruined by the lack of a NPK timer and any content whatsoever, was fun to gank newbies with a 7 day fail quest time though 3 ferals vs a full city ah was fun for a while.
If you want to make experiences challenging then you introduce risks that can't be overcome with a massive zerg, you focus on challenges for smaller groups so that their skill can make a difference, i.e. the instances in WoW dungeons.
I love offline rpgs for PvE, planescape torment, morrowind, nwn etc. I just think that mmorpgs version of that is pathetic, no creativity is used whatsoever and the easiest possible route is always used to create crappy content as fast as possible that can be twisted to require a load of play time so people subscribe for longer periods.
When mmorpg devs start thinking about how they can create fun, interesting and original content that is designed to be the best experience for the player as possible instead of how we can get 72 hours worth of gametime out of as little actual content as possible then you might convince me that PvE is worth playing.
Until then I'll continue to assume that some people can way too easily be drawn in by badly hidden grinding and level treadmills
Or any problem with PvE if its implemented well, the events you mentioned weren't challenging, they just required 200 people to go throw themselves at a mob and unsuprisingly it died.
No matter what mythic create, add 6-7 fgs and it'll die, so what? Organising a bunch of morons isn't _that_ much fun unless you really love power tripping
Next to relic raids that's pathetic, even on the organisation side of it.
As for assembling the perfect set being a fun challenge, that's not exactly what I'd call camping some mob that has a retarded 5 hour respawn timer and a 2% chance to drop for a week whilst fighting off other campers.
Stuff like that which is just artificially designed so that it takes a lot of time, there's no skill or intelligence required, just time = subscription money.
Which is precisely why I hate that dynamic of PvE, it's found in almost all current mmorpgs, want a max level char? you just need to have no life and a lot of time on your hands. Regardless of how skilled you are you won't level much faster, anyone can sign into an XP group, do 5-6 hours a night and be 50 in a month or so.
You can't do that with PvP, if you suck then you'll spend a very long time getting RPs and die a lot / get your group killed in the process.
AC2's problem was the live team being a bunch of idiots that after about 6 months decided to turn the game into EQ, nerf all classes ability to solo, back to forcing everyone to group for XP etc.
I played darktide ffa server for a while, probably best mmorpg experience I've had since AC1 but ruined by the lack of a NPK timer and any content whatsoever, was fun to gank newbies with a 7 day fail quest time though
3 ferals vs a full city ah was fun for a while.If you want to make experiences challenging then you introduce risks that can't be overcome with a massive zerg, you focus on challenges for smaller groups so that their skill can make a difference, i.e. the instances in WoW dungeons.
I love offline rpgs for PvE, planescape torment, morrowind, nwn etc. I just think that mmorpgs version of that is pathetic, no creativity is used whatsoever and the easiest possible route is always used to create crappy content as fast as possible that can be twisted to require a load of play time so people subscribe for longer periods.
When mmorpg devs start thinking about how they can create fun, interesting and original content that is designed to be the best experience for the player as possible instead of how we can get 72 hours worth of gametime out of as little actual content as possible then you might convince me that PvE is worth playing.
Until then I'll continue to assume that some people can way too easily be drawn in by badly hidden grinding and level treadmills
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old.Revz
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Originally posted by sh33py
No matter what mythic create, add 6-7 fgs and it'll die, so what? Organising a bunch of morons isn't _that_ much fun unless you really love power tripping
Next to relic raids that's pathetic, even on the organisation side of it.
I agree with you completely. I would much prefer challenges that a moderately sized guild full of highly skilled and well equipped people could attempt with a decent risk of failure. Part of the problem is that once you start artificially clamping the number of people who can take part you lose some of the freedom of a mmporpg. There are things that can be done to get round this to a certain extent though with the encounter design. One thing DAoC really misses is dungeons/areas that you have to progressively unlock (requiring flags or keys) and I think these are being introduced with ToA.
Relic raids are not something I enjoy either
I don't think it is quite like that. You need a limit on the speed with which items enter the game (particularly if they are very good). The only real limit I can think of is how long it will take any one person to get said item. If you don't have some sort of brake on things so that people get spread out over the whole spectrum of advancement very soon you end up with everyone at one end. At that point it just becomes massively multiplayer Quake3 or Counterstrike. You can probably go play Planetside if that sort of thing is what you want to do.
Personally I enjoy a game where I can constantly improve my character with the improvement being proprortional to both the time and skill I invest. No one said that having the best equipment would be easy or quick but at least you have a goal then. If everyone can get there easily it isn't really a goal anymore but more of a basic requirement. That is where the problem lies in a lot of current system
Level 50 with some nice spell crafted equipment in DAoC is not a target but a requirement to participate in RvR now (you said so yourself pretty much).Again I think you are overestimating the need for skill in RvR versus skill in PvE. If you put enough time into either you will eventually hit level 50 or achieve a respectable realm rank. There is a lot of scope for playing efficiently at any level of course. Some people may take 30 days to get their first character to 50, some take 15 days. The same is true for RvR, certain people get there fast and others take longer but make no mistake in thinking that eventually everyone will get there. These sort of games don't really take skill as such they need lots of time, determination, some social skills, planning and a bit of ingenuity.
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Wai
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not looking forward to toa one bit... considered giving up game numerous times tbh, but even though i h8 pve... and i must admit i have never "camped" a hard mob. Anything i have ever needed i have bought so don't really know wot its like to achieve smth worthwhile and hard pve wise, only thing i know how to do is rvr... hell i only ever go to df to buy seals off ppl buy stuff and make money off getting near full price off m8's with hingebots i won't even farm my own seals i h8 pve so much.
Looks like though i will have no choice but to in toa, but in all honesty i see revz' point v clearly and it would be nice to do a quest that takes hours/days to do and be bored out of my mind to, at the end of the quest, feel a great sense of achievment come over me as i get smth that will make me a little bit better in rvr... although i can't see me taking up the challenge yet of camping mobs for hours/days/weeks for a drop, but whos knows maybe starting pve will rekindle my long lost love for keeling stuff with as much intelligence as a womble of wimbledon
happy new year btw
Looks like though i will have no choice but to in toa, but in all honesty i see revz' point v clearly and it would be nice to do a quest that takes hours/days to do and be bored out of my mind to, at the end of the quest, feel a great sense of achievment come over me as i get smth that will make me a little bit better in rvr... although i can't see me taking up the challenge yet of camping mobs for hours/days/weeks for a drop, but whos knows maybe starting pve will rekindle my long lost love for keeling stuff with as much intelligence as a womble of wimbledon
happy new year btw
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lakih
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Maybe you should play Planetside or Counter-strike instead of a "real" mmorpg?
Happy new year
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lakih
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Btw Revz... would you consider a sexchange and marry me?
(100% agree with your previous posts)
(100% agree with your previous posts)