Question To whom it may Concern

[Olgaline]

I has a questionet...

It mostly to the resident "trolls" and "hot heads" here,
For a while, I've been pondering, when you get bans, why do you keep comming back ? or infractions for that matter.....


enlighten me, as although I'm happy to see people return "for the most"
on a more personal level, I dont really get it.



just had one of them sudden, hmmm..!? /scratch head, moments
you know the kind....

 

[fettoken]

Think of FH like a pub


YouTube- Cheers - Opening titles

 

[Olgaline]

Actually.....
that's a pretty good analogy
well done lad!


Still though,
If I was "thrown out" of a pub, "which has never happened" that would be the last time I ever visited that pub.

 

[fettoken]

Depends on if it was some silly fight that the owner didn't approve of or people disliked you generally.

 

[Imgormiel]

I have been thrown out of pubs, only one of em I went back to Kids eh, can't eat em for breakfast, can't give em away to charity. I am such a shrimp, and shellfish

 

[kirennia]

I has a questionet...

It mostly to the resident "trolls" and "hot heads" here,
For a while, I've been pondering, when you get bans, why do you keep comming back ? or infractions for that matter.....


enlighten me, as although I'm happy to see people return "for the most"
on a more personal level, I dont really get it.



just had one of them sudden, hmmm..!? /scratch head, moments
you know the kind....

For those who get banned, I can see why they'd come back; they still have online friends talking here so more questionable would be, why not? Afterall, nothing really changes, you just can't post here for a little while.

Those who are generally disliked who keep getting banned and coming back/ making new accounts... those people I really don't understand.

 

[Olgaline]

well,
I guess I'm just getting old.

But ok, let me show you what i mean, from my perspective.
If I did something that was out of line, "in my case that would be unknowingly"
I'd accept, that my action could be, deleated, removed, edited ect and so on,
I'd also expect a mod to then, contact me and explain how/why i was out of line,
so that i dont make that mistake again. "sure they dont have to, but well, it would, in my eyes be common curtacy ?

btw it's important to note that we'r not talking about new commers/ unkowns
but rather resident posters. oh and fyi this is all theoretical there is no "story atached" so sorry, those looking for drama

As for the friends part, that can just as well be nurtured anywhere really.
so there must be something els drawing people back. what i'm pondering is what.
I can asure, If I was banned without explanation,
I'd be gone for good.but then again I've always been a stuborn old fool

but I've also always seeked to understand others perspectives/views..on anything really,
I might not always agree..but I always want to at least try and understand it.

 

[old.Tohtori]

As for the friends part, that can just as well be nurtured anywhere really.
so there must be something els drawing people back. what i'm pondering is what.

Do you have real life friends?

Wouldn't that logic apply to them? Why be friends with them, just get someone else to be a friend.

This is a social location and some people get banned mostly because of not thinking things through. F*cking up is part of any relationship.

Here, f*cking up costs you x amount of posting rights removal. This doesn't mean "we want you out!", it means "Don't do it again."

I think you've got a way too powerful image of bans.

Also you expect too much. If you did something "unknowingly"(don't we all), you'd get banned/infractioned with little if any explanation. This is not a club where people hold your hand and sit you on their lap to tell you what yoiu did wrong.

Well...TdC might sit you on his lap...but anyway. This is a club where you f*ck up, you get slapped.

But you don't get banned without a reason, BIG point flaw on your rant. If you get banned, YOU are the problem. So if you got banned Olga, it wouldn't be because of a bad mod day, or even worth an explanation, because you would know what you did wrong.

 

[Thorwyn]

The thing is, that bans are cast by mods. And FH users are posting here to chat with other FH users... not to chat with mods. It´s pretty similar to a footballgame. If you´re playing foul and the ref sends you off, you´re not quitting football for good, you´re coming back after you sat out the penalty, because you like playing football and you like the company of your teammates.

A temp ban on a forum is just a power tool to keep people in line. If a mod would talk to you and say "hey, you fooked up there", you would probably understand and accept the warning. But many other people won´t. They would just continue their net rage and deny their mistakes.

 

[kiliarien]

I agree with Toht Olga in that you rate bans/infractions too highly. Not that I have much experience, I've only ever been nega-repped twice on my entire time here, and both of those were by Toht

BIG point flaw on your rant.

It wasn't a rant. He stated quite clearly that it was a question. Melodrama much?? And your 'question' asking him if he had real life friends was inflammatory and unnecessary. Play nice Toht!

 

[Olgaline]

Well first off all,
toht, what i said was you dont need Fh to stay in contac with people from Fh
get it ? so the new friends will be your own inturpritation on that one.

But yes it would, if my friends and me did not like the tone and treatment we resive at Pub A ,
we'd quickly find our selvs at Pub B instead.

As for the rest of it ? The rest sounds like you generally missed the point,
and comming off like a patronizing P*ick, or thats just me?
Honestly I hope you indeed missed the point of the question,
or maybe I wasnt clear enough in my initial question ?
I hope thats the case, because if it's an attempt at baiting me? well that wont take you very far.

"I like the ref analogy btw thorwyn"

However secondly, "back on track"
still missing that inside view, that helps me understand
the perspective of a returned banee, as in what compels him/her to return.

I've never been banned, and never recived a single infraction, is this by coincidance ?
I'd argue not. one of the reasons for this, is that I always put some concideration into
my actions, before acting on a forum like this...

This is also why I'd "personally" take offence "even if it's just slightly"
to an infraction or a ban, wich I'd view as a clear difference of opinion between myself and the Mod.

thats also why I dont get, why someone would return to a place where you did not share a general
view on behavior and conduct with the moderators of that given community.
This especially goes for "repeat offenders"

I dont have any problems with those that do, I just dont always understand them.
this goes two fold for guys like Dorimore..but that a whole different story

 

[Thadius]

for the lulz

 

[Olgaline]

hmm care to elaborate on that one ?

 

[Thadius]

we come back for the humour factor.

 

[Imgormiel]

we come back for the humour factor.

I wonder if that's possible without some extra chilli?

 

[TdC]

hmm interesting thread evolution here. if my lappy (lapTOP, Toh, not...anything else) still works in a sec, I'll tuck myself into bed and see about a reply as well

 

[Imgormiel]

hmm interesting thread evolution here. if my lappy (lapTOP, Toh, not...anything else) still works in a sec, I'll tuck myself into bed and see about a reply as well

/bow

 

[TdC]

Like I said, very interesting thread. Perhaps more so than you realize Anyways, I have a couple of thoughts, forgive me if I ramble a bit, tis late and I am in bed. laptop in bed ftw btw \o/

Firstly, and to answer you specifically Olga, I have no idea why people who have been banned in anger come back and then make noise again. They may be doing it for the lulz indeed, and I'll even go as far as to admit that it sometimes is funny as heck. There are the special few however, who make a sport of getting banned and banned and banned, and for the life of me I'm at a loss to explain that particular set of mannerisms other than blanket it with a generic.
Like you say, if you got banned, you would expect some explanation, and in your case I am inclined to agree. You have never been banned, and never had an infraction, have a good FH history and seem to be a reasonably mature and well adjusted person who posts stuff that has content (ooh err), meaning that if people suddenly complained about you, or you started spouting shite, then a mod would be more inclined to want to know what was going on rather than simply infracting the shit out of you. To put it in the "pub" analogy -which I don't particularly agree with by the way- you could be going to a pub for years and be mates with all the staff, regardless they'll still put you out the door if you suddenly started behaving like a twat...except hopefully they'd let you in again the next day, pour you a shot and find out what was up.

I think that the reality of getting a ban or infraction is a mix of what Thorwyn and Toh mentioned. Btw, Toh is not trying to get a rise out of you, he is trying to get you to look at your rl circle of mates with the abstract view on crime and punishment this forum uses and see what you come up with. Imo both you and Kir are misreading him in this case (or maybe I am, who knows), but anyway, Toh says:

So if you got banned Olga, it wouldn't be because of a bad mod day, or even worth an explanation, because you would know what you did wrong.

I very much agree. Why? Because, like I said above, you have never been banned, never had an infraction, have a good FH history, seem to be a reasonably mature etc etc etc....so Toh is very correct when he states that were you to actually get banned, you would know full well what you did to deserve it -if you see what I am saying here. Also, him speaking about sitting in my lap is just wishful thinking
Where Thorwyn makes the football analogy I partially agree. He's right about what a player does when the ref pulls a card or issues a caution, but -I don't know anything about footy, so bear with me here- I wonder if a ref takes into account what history a player has when he's pulling a card. A (super)mod has to think about this imo (at least I do), and maybe have a chat with people in PM before he does anything, because in text there is much that happens between the lines no? You are what you type, and people can read or misread you all they like. People remember history, and especially in gaming forums a grievance can come from elsewhere, eg outside the forum, IRC, some game, other media, so a mod can get complaints about things that (s)he doesn't see for him- or herself, based on what the complainer knows from way back when and is more or less unprovable.

Thorwyn has the right of it when he mentions the difference between bans, bans and infractions. Certain peeps like to play right on the edge, and while I personally won't go as far as to say that the game is best there, I know that the edge is where the rigid guideline that is the FH COC becomes vague. Vaguer, vague-ish. So this means that if you want to play there you will run the risk of a mod making his or her own call and unless it's grossly unjust there is not a thing you can do about it except suck it up. Ofc there are also people who flip out on a friday night and post something that gets them banned, yeah, well they'll be back and posting whenever the ban expires or if it gets overturned by a kind and considerate (*cough*) moderator eh? This is usually the part where quotes from IRC get posted by said user's mates about how much the mod in question is an arsebandit/nazi/racist/fascist & the user is ofc blameless, etc etc. Doesn't help much, though I may invent a special infraction for people dragging IRC filth into our lovely *green* forums (forii?). Ofc, and I may regret saying this, but banning all the rebels does take a lot of life out of the forums, which is bad and makes for an (imo) dull place to hang out. Not that we will end up with utopia where everyone agrees and gets along, but it will be like running a big hifi on a low volume, eg lots of potential but not a lot of oomph...and I likes my oomph.

Thorwyn also says:

FH users are posting here to chat with other FH users... not to chat with mods.

I must say this hurts me a little bit (no offence Thorwyn, I mean this generally and am just using your post as an example), because I don't see being a (super)mod as anything special or different and I play games too you know. Do people accord me special attention? I don't know, but I suspect it may be so, because I notice behavioural patterns in the forum that occur when I have to be a mod, and hence do not occur when I am not forced into this role. I do say forced, because ideally I never have to be a mod, and can just idle in the boobie thread, post shite or tell the other mods that they're cockbadgers. So because of this I gather it might mean that people will respond differently to me posting something because I have the Jekyll and Hyde ability to become the mod and infract/ban them? I should hope not! My forum day as a mod is more or less 99.8% banning spambots, and the remaining 0.2% is saving people from themselves, trying to resolve differences without having to ban anyone and infracting people who are being stupid (stupid peoples, heh). Anyways, Deebs asked me to be a staff member and I thought about it for a day or two and said yes. Most of the time it's awesome fun. Actually I should say all of the time, but sometimes getting PMs that more or less state "explain exactly where I broke the coc and why I got an infraction" gets me down a little. I'm only human, and sometimes I really don't give a shit, especially if you're a recidivist *braces for flood of complaint PMs* What does brighten my day extremely though, is if someone is kind enough to tell me I did a good job, or that they are pleased with something I did -yes, this does happen!- because that means I helped someone have a better forum experience, and that is completely awesome and perhaps the primary reason to be a mod in the first place. All of us are here to have fun and enjoy ourselves are we not? I know I am

woo RAMBLE ALERT!!!1

 

[Thorwyn]

I must say this hurts me a little bit (no offence Thorwyn, I mean this generally and am just using your post as an example), because I don't see being a (super)mod as anything special or different and I play games too you know.... etc

Maybe you misunderstood my point or maybe I didn´t bring it accross properly. What I mean is, that it´s important to distinguish between the mod with his powers and his responsibilities on one hand and the person himself on the other hand. When I`m replying to you on FH, I´m not talking to the mod, I`m talking to you, just like I`m talking to anyone else. You just happen to be one of the few people who´re both, users and mods. But the latter doesn´t change anything in my style, tone, level of politeness or attitude towards you. And getting a ban or infraction from you only means that you switched to your mod role to handle a situation where I messed up. I wouldn´t take that personal.

To use another analogy...
It´s like being in the pub drinking beer with your neighbour who happens to be a policeman. As long as you´re in the pub, you´re talking to the person, not the policeman. However, if the same policeman pulls you out and gives your a ticket for speeding the next day, you would still go to the pub with him again.

 

[old.Tohtori]

It wasn't a rant. He stated quite clearly that it was a question. Melodrama much?? And your 'question' asking him if he had real life friends was inflammatory and unnecessary. Play nice Toht!

It had nothing inflammatory, it was a question, pure and simple. Maybe you need to drop the drama and read questions AS questions, not as flaming attempts, because there was none.

Well first off all,
toht, what i said was you dont need Fh to stay in contac with people from Fh
get it ? so the new friends will be your own inturpritation on that one.

But yes it would, if my friends and me did not like the tone and treatment we resive at Pub A ,
we'd quickly find our selvs at Pub B instead.

As for the rest of it ? The rest sounds like you generally missed the point,
and comming off like a patronizing P*ick, or thats just me?
Honestly I hope you indeed missed the point of the question,
or maybe I wasnt clear enough in my initial question ?
I hope thats the case, because if it's an attempt at baiting me? well that wont take you very far.

Same problem with killarien, thinking i'm baiting you.

You could've said "i meant friends here can be contacted elsewhere", but no, you took the innuendo road down to "you troll"-ville.

Both of you judge quite quickly without taking a look at your own posts

Also i answered your question, you may not like the answer, but you were looking for opinions were you not?

Oh and TdC; that lappy is not wishful thinking!

 

[Olgaline]

thanks TDC,
thats a very good reply, and a few ionsights there, so thanks for that.
one point to concider though.

I very much agree. Why? Because, like I said above, you have never been banned, never had an infraction, have a good FH history, seem to be a reasonably mature etc etc etc....so Toh is very correct when he states that were you to actually get banned, you would know full well what you did to deserve it -if you see what I am saying here.

this is where I might view things abit differently, but we might be getting into a debate of definition here, so I'll leave it be after this reply. Because I would not knowingly post soemething that could get me banned..see where I'm going ? ...right lest leave it here.

otherwise my thoughts are very much pulling me in your direction as to this:

Certain peeps like to play right on the edge,

I think your very much right on that, which is also why I'd like to hear from some one of "that type" or the dori type for that matter, it intrigues me.

As for the ref analogy, well no a reff dosent, or well, at least shouldnt, and thats also they main difference to say FH, where I know that the "ref" dose just that. Thats also why a strait off ban would suprise the heck out of me, wich is also exactly why i wouldnt be returning...

Toh is not trying to get a rise out of you, he is trying to get you to look at your rl circle of mates with the abstract view on crime and punishment this forum uses and see what you come up with. Imo both you and Kir are misreading him in this case (or maybe I am, who knows), but anyway, Toh says:

I hope so,
I just got anoyed, becuase I dont feel he got the point of the thread,
I didnt ask why people get banned, I asked what drives them why they return.
and in return I got "what to me seems a load of patronizing blabber.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Olga i'm a bit insulted(not really ) that you'd think THAT would be my quality of trolling.

If i wanted to get a rise out of you, i'd go down a similar route to your post and say something like(hypothetical mind you!);

'You come of as a high-horsing 'hole, you know? "I'd never do it" on every turn makes you sound like you think you're better then the rest of the forum goers. Why not step down and trot through the mud like we regular folk do, put away the glass of whisky that cost half a leg(yes we heard about it already!) abd unlodge your ego-bloated head from your arse.'

Now THAT would be trolling

 

[Olgaline]

ok,
and now maybe we get back on track and let those
who might have some insight "have tried it" get a word in.

And I'm to delicate for mud,
I'd get a rash and stuff

 

[old.Tohtori]

ok,
and now maybe we get back on track and let those
who might have some insight "have tried it" get a word in.

Ok.

I made a booboo way back when, got a 3 day "vacation", came back because i enjoy the banter, the social structure and i don't plan on putting everyone here on MSN.

It's as simple as going to any "usual place", just because you mess up, doesn't mean you stop going.

Also this place wastes time quite efficiently and works as a "search tool" for when your own info or info gathering fails.

 

[kiliarien]

It had nothing inflammatory, it was a question, pure and simple. Maybe you need to drop the drama and read questions AS questions, not as flaming attempts, because there was none.

Don't play dumb. Asking a question like that infers that you believe he doesn't, as the answer 'no' is highly unlikely. It's close to a rhetorical question. Just as (and this is just an example and of course does not relate to you) "Why are you so fat?" is still gramatically a question, but is also inflammatory to some/most people.

I hope so,
I just got anoyed, becuase I dont feel he got the point of the thread,
I didnt ask why people get banned, I asked what drives them why they return. and in return I got "what to me seems a load of patronizing blabber.

I tend to agree - what are peoples' motives? There has been some discourse here but people have gone off on tangents. For those who get banned and make new accounts I can only assume it's grief factor, or maybe feel as if they need to be heard for what they might think is a ban injustice? Others who just infringe may feel they got unfairly treated in subjective cases.

 

[faw]

What would you like to know?

There isn't much to say. I don't feel that the moderators can justify their reasons for banning me, I wish to be a part of this community and I have many friends who still post here (FreddysHouse is the only way I can keep in contact with some of them). That's why I keep returning.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Don't play dumb. Asking a question like that infers that you believe he doesn't, as the answer 'no' is highly unlikely. It's close to a rhetorical question. Just as (and this is just an example and of course does not relate to you) "Why are you so fat?" is still gramatically a question, but is also inflammatory to some/most people.

I'm not playing dumb, i'm just not trolling or baiting and i don't mean any offense by it. It's a lead up question which has nothing accusing or flaming in it. I "apologise" if this hurts your feelings, i just can't be the man you want me to be

Maybe it's not me trying to dig up drama

As i said, if i wanted to troll or bait, you wouldn't even notice it. Oh and, let's leave it at that since the only discussion here on end would be "yes-no-yes-no".

 

[fettoken]

i think my analogy is more accurate than the wall of text im seeing...

 

[TdC]

Maybe you misunderstood my point

I did indeed, sorry! Thanks for the clarification bud!

Oh and TdC; that lappy is not wishful thinking!

mmmmm soft soft seelskin.....mmmmmmmmmm wait...what?

thanks TDC

no worries dude

 

[kiliarien]

I "apologise" if this hurts your feelings, i just can't be the man you want me to be

Oh you just have been the man, such flirting. I need a trip to the toilet.....